Reservation - How Relevant ?

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neels

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Dear Members,
It would be nice to know the views of jatlanders on the burning issue of Reservation. And do you think the protest by the Doctors is right ?
I know the topic is few months old, and might have been discussed a lot. But as it came to surface again now with the Parliament passing the bill, and the recent hunger strike by the resident doctors, I thought to bring it to forum again. This time what is to be seen is that what our Apex Court have to say in the matter !
 
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I think doctors are very right in their aggitation and I am providing all my support to Y4E on this issue.

My logic behind this support is:

1. Medical services are the primary services and back bone of a good properous nation.

2. I don't want to go to that doctor for consultation who is MBBS just because he was reserved not deserved.

3. If govt. is really interested to uplift the backwards they should prepare the candidate by provide them quality training and education and make them ready to compete rather then inducting them through back door.

I appreciate if all jat have common consensus on this issue.

Thanks
 
mann123 said:
I appreciate if all jat have common consensus on this issue.

Thanks
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I am myself against all caste-based and religion-based reservations. These were started at the time of adoption of new Constitution, just to give some push to downtrodden sections of society and were restricted to 10 years only. Now, it has become a tool for political vote bank. No other country in the world has such a system - a kind of 'apartheid' in the name of upliftment of poorer sections.

Jats may have common consensus so far as reservations for doctors are concerned. But when it comes to their own involvement (OBC etc.), they are also divided. For example, read thread: Jats in reservation as OBC in this forum itself.
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mann123 said:
I think doctors are very right in their aggitation and I am providing all my support to Y4E on this issue.

My logic behind this support is:

1. Medical services are the primary services and back bone of a good properous nation.

2. I don't want to go to that doctor for consultation who is MBBS just because he was reserved not deserved.

3. If govt. is really interested to uplift the backwards they should prepare the candidate by provide them quality training and education and make them ready to compete rather then inducting them through back door.

I appreciate if all jat have common consensus on this issue.

Thanks
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Exactly the same reasons i've in my mind on this issue...just waiting to see what implementations they are going to put now.
 
i think every body knows what is right and what is wrong and what is the right solution since politicians have to think of their vote bank so they will do what they have done ....... so i think best is not to discuss and channelise our own effort .....

i do agree should we then stop agitiating against these .... i am not able to figure out the right way ... like a consultant i can give the theoretical way but if the consultant is allowed to implement then i think failure is there most of times .....
 
Reservation -How relevant?

Resp All

I am for reservation for SC/ ST and OBC. Can be argued at length.

R.S.Dahiya
 
wht is affirmative action??

well jats have reservations in Rajasthan nd UP under the OBC quota...nd in Delhi too....haryanna jats r not covered under the quota...


btw can anyone kindly explain wht is AFFIRMATIVE ACTION....its being said tht this method is applied in the US universities...is this also a kind of reservation???....nd if it is,can it be applied to India??....
if anyone knows abt it plz tell...
 
according to me reservation based on economic status should be extended to the needy...doesnt matter if he/she belongs to SC,ST,OBC or General category...
 
cant say...

vijay said:
Yeah i know but i am asking that if it is right or wrong for our community ?
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cant say anything abt it being wrong or right...
as i mentioned...reservation shud be based on economic status of the family/individual...if the reservation helps in uplifting the real needy ones nd put them on the path of progress its good....but if caters only to privileged few nd prevents others from coming fwd its bad...
u r from rajasthan i guess..u tell me how has reservation helped the people ??..or how it has failed to help??...
 
brainspeak said:
cant say anything abt it being wrong or right...
as i mentioned...reservation shud be based on economic status of the family/individual...if the reservation helps in uplifting the real needy ones nd put them on the path of progress its good....but if caters only to privileged few nd prevents others from coming fwd its bad...
u r from rajasthan i guess..u tell me how has reservation helped the people ??..or how it has failed to help??...
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Reservation doesn't help anyone by any means.

Just tell me how many ppl from ur villege ( from reserved community ) uplifted theselves since last few years whom u know.

Jats in Rajasthan did all the hard work and show the courage to get recognition just by their might before and after Independence. They faught against Rajput supermacy and against British too. They have strong position now in Rajasthan just becoz of their might and intellect but not becoz of this reservation.

A intelligent or hard working person can make his/her path by own but if you want to try to encourage a dumb, sooner or later get ready to feel ashamed for ur support.

Reservation is nonsense and eating our Nation's intellect more or less.:)
 
vijay said:
Reservation doesn't help anyone by any means.

Just tell me how many ppl from ur villege ( from reserved community ) uplifted theselves since last few years whom u know.

Jats in Rajasthan did all the hard work and show the courage to get recognition just by their might before and after Independence. They faught against Rajput supermacy and against British too. They have strong position now in Rajasthan just becoz of their might and intellect but not becoz of this reservation.

A intelligent or hard working person can make his/her path by own but if you want to try to encourage a dumb, sooner or later get ready to feel ashamed for ur support.

Reservation is nonsense and eating our Nation's intellect more or less.:)
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first of all let me clarify for u....
wht i mean by the above post is tht--- if the resevation is to be granted it should be based on economic considerations...
nd as for my village i even dunno how many SC r there,let alone how many helped themselves to higher positions...sorry for tht....but i know many other from the Scheduled Castes who have had the benfits of the reservation..got good jobs...nd they cud have this benefit bcoz they were willing to show some resolve on their part nd work hard...overcame their initial economic hardships...but now the real problem starts...now their children who have never had to face any hardships or face the same situations as their parents faced r demanding reservation nd getting it...tht is not justified!!!....

i asked u to tell abt the jats in rajasthan nd the benefits/harmful effects of reservation....so tht u cud give a first hand account of the situation(didnot mean any offence there but u took it otherwise i guess)...i.e. how has it been good or bad for jats,since its abt our community tht we have been discussing the pros nd cons of reservation...

nd u r right,hardworking nd intelligent person can find his own path....wht abt those who cant find their own path??...donot they need any help???
its the dumb nd the not so intelligent who need help...or the less privileged i must say(economically i.e)....hence the policy of reservation....or do u want tht dumb shud stay dumb all their life???...
 
i support for reservation based on economic standards .... but what is presently implemented we have to accept that there is no way.... now vijay has asked how its good for jat .....then this is answer given by uncle .....how many of the people in jat community are like u and when a jat goes to govt offive and find in a office that one who is less calibre then u and that person say to him saab ji .. then how do that person feel... this doesnt imply that jats have less callibre its not beacuse he has less callibre but he hasnt got reservation ....if reservation is there then 30% of our students have callibre to suceed in general category and some can take help of reservation and in this way this percentage improves ....this doesnt imply that i promote casteism....i am only telling how reservation helps jat students ... see how reservation has helped meena in rajasthan .... see their status how it has improved ....now if any of u who is able to stand and take the resonsiblity of taking any village jat child and making him suceed in life ....i think fact is there r hardly any and if its there then they r very less compare to total number of jats ...so i think those who r saying of quality then dont take reservation and appear in general category and make sucees and let other people of jat who need reservation they take .....one person success or a group of people success doesnt imply community is progressed ....so i think for jat reservation should be there ....though i dont need any reservation for me and for my child .....Note :i am giving these comments taking granted that reservation is there and we cant escape from politicians however try we hard
 
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dndeswal said:
I am myself against all caste-based and religion-based reservations. These were started at the time of adoption of new Constitution, just to give some push to downtrodden sections of society and were restricted to 10 years only. Now, it has become a tool for political vote bank. No other country in the world has such a system - a kind of 'apartheid' in the name of upliftment of poorer sections.

Jats may have common consensus so far as reservations for doctors are concerned. But when it comes to their own involvement (OBC etc.), they are also divided. For example, read thread: Jats in reservation as OBC in this forum itself.
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You are absolutely right Sir.

Only because of the political parties we are struggling. Nowadays Evberyone in this world wants prefers Quality than Quantity. And we are doing the reverse, Why?

We have got the reservation in Rajasthan jsut because of the vote politics.

I think reservation should not be there for anyone.
 
Reservation- why? If we talk of equality and equal rights among society, then it really doesn't make any sense to me. Why the Govt. itself creating a cause of discrimation among the classes. As far as the upliftment of backward classes( not only BCs, all) is concerned, it makes some sense. Perhaps this was was the sole reason for implementation of reservation policy when it was started, to provide an additional support to the underprivileged classes. But the big Question is HOW LONG ? Haven't they been able to match to other more privileged classes even after taking the advantage of reservation for long 60 years since Independence. I think everone ll agree its just one specific class who's being benefitted by the reservation generation after generation. Why a son or daughter of IAS or at any other High Rank Officer needs reservation ? Is he still backward? The underlying purpose of the reservation is marred by such misuse of reservation by the creamy layer of the society. If you want to uplift the real backward classes, make better and effective measures of providing free education to all upto basic level, give scholarships and make arrangements for special coaching for those who can not afford the high cost of preparing for the entrance exams. Given the same foundation, let them compete then. Improve the infrastructure rather than discriminating clasees.
And even if you are providing reservation in the admissions at the education level even at premier institutions, then why this reservation in the jobs again? After job in the promotions, again they enjoy favour. thus they are taking multifold advantage of this reservation.
Only hope now is, we ll have to seek the intervention of Supreme Court to put a check on politicians' selfish interests at the cost of we, the general class.
 
I totally agree with you Neelam !

The reservation was supposed to be just for 10 years after Independence. The dirty politics is dragging is endlessly just for vote bank. If they couldn't uplift themselves in 60 years, i dare to say they never can. Only 10% people of reserved category are getting benefitted again and again and having a royal life style while other 90% are still there as they were 60 years back. So it doesn't make any sense now to continue with this reservation process.

This reservation is just frustrating the real intellect and talent of the country and obviously middle class is suffering from it drastically.
 
Reservation-How Relevant?

Dear All

One point is being raised about Merit and quality.

This time in Haryana in Private dental colleges there were about 30 seats vacant. Simple premedical students were given amission in the last counselling. How about their merit?

Now a days the merit is equal to money.
Private coaching institutions are charging very heavily.

Mr Anil Sadgopal is a very well known educationist.He argues about the reality of meritocracy as under and I endorse his views-
BOGUS ARGUMENT OF 'MERITOCRACY'

No one extending the “meritocracy” argument has ever attempted to explain the fact that the four southern states and Maharashtra having a history of enhanced reservations (in Tamilnadu, reservations in higher education are up to 69 per cent) are far ahead in both the social indicators and modern industrial development than the northern ‘Bimaru’ states lacking such reservations. Why have reservations not led to a decline in the merit level or in the capacity to generate new knowledge in the southern states? Would either the India Inc. or the Knowledge Commission care to explain? Indeed, the anti-reservationist forces have never cared about the issue of merit and its role in national development. Was there ever a candle-light protest against ‘selling’ of the seats at high prices in private professional colleges without reference to any notion of merit? Why did the medical students not organise a protest march when NRI Quota has been operating in higher education for years for admitting such NRI students many of whom would have not been selected on the basis of their scores?

Talking of the scores, let us also question the validity of scores being considered synonymous with the level of merit. Professor Amartya Sen has already questioned the whole notion of merit by arguing that merit can be defined only in the context of the kind of society one wants to build. The Constitution has already directed that we have to build a democratic, egalitarian, secular and forward-looking society in India. Does the notion of merit used for selection in the elite professional institutions include any of such Constitutional parameters? Or the entire notion of merit is limited to a candidate’s PCM scores in the Plus Two exams or in the competitive tests wherein a candidate excels only by paying an exorbitant fee to the coaching centers in metropolis of the ‘globalised’ India. The spurious arguments based on either inherent intelligence levels or IQ stand rejected even in the west. It is now recognised that IQ was used in the west as a tool of racism and is in fact a function of a person’s economic, socio-cultural and linguistic environment. What we have come to call merit in India defies a philosophical value-framework and violates the principles of educational psychology. At best, it is in tune with behaviourism where the person is tailor-made to serve the interest of the global market, rather than enabled to work for an enlightened and humane society.

Let me also contend that anyone who has crossed the level of Plus Two exams and aspires to enter higher education institutions already belongs to the privileged sections of society. Look at the data released by the HRD ministry and some computations made on the basis of transition rates (i.e. proportion of students moving from class X to class XI and pass-out percentages at the Plus Two stage). Only about 11-12 per cent of the children of the general category (including SCs and STs) who start out in class I would pass the Plus Two exam and become eligible for admission to higher education institutions (63 per cent drop-out before reaching class X). The comparable figures for SC and ST children will be in the range of 6-7 per cent and 4-5 per cent respectively (72 per cent of SCs and 80 per cent of STs drop-out before reaching class X). In the case of SC and ST girls, these figure shall be still worse and put all talk of India becoming superpower by 2020 to shame.

The only system of schooling that is accessible to the majority of SCs and STs is the vast government school system – the only alternative to the poor. Studies have shown that the neo-liberal policies since 1991 have led to a steady decline in the quality of government schooling. A host of parallel layers of educational facilities have been established for the poor. This is precisely the strategy adopted by Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan. A new sociological principle has been institutionalised: each child will get a quality of educational facility that is in consonance with her/his social and economic status. It may be now contended that the government policy is to allow the government school system to deteriorate, thereby forcing the poor children to quit school at an early stage. The parents of such children, if they can afford, would send their children to a local low fee-charging (also a low quality but nominally ‘English medium’) school. This has led to mushrooming of low quality private un-recognised schools in small towns and large villages all over the country. This is what the World Bank and the market forces wanted to happen in India.

R.S.Dahiya
 
Reservation abolition is reservation for all I think we must fight for its abolition.

Please answer just one question

if someone from your near and dear is fighting for life will you go for that Doctor, who is a doctor not because of his talent but because of reservation???

My vote: I won't go and there is no doubt about it.

waiting for yours vote??
 
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