How to deal with Pakistan ?

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It naive to think like that

raj2rif said:
We also need to protect the rights of people in Indonesia and Malaysia. That should be done through diplomacy. Hard sanctions can bring a halt to these things in those countries. The problem there must be addressed ASAP before it becomes unmanageable.
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Diplomatically, US (Global Supercop) has not been able to get Pakistan to undertake sincere anti-terror operations. It doesn't work with extremists.They are brainwashed to an extent that words and threats have no value. Being from amry you would be better placed to appreciate that nothing can b done to a man who is on suicide mission.

The ideologue of Jemaah Islamia of Indonesia in a written interview said "Terro is not a tool. Terror is the decision we want to impose on the non-beleivers." Anty one who comes in our path of Islamisation of the world is an enemy. Once people get terrorised we will be free to continue with our goal without any hinderance".

Where is the chance of dialogue and diplomacy ??????????

In malaysia recently the mulahs outlawed Yoga for muslims. Poor PM had to say people may practice yoga postures without reciting AUM.....So tht their islamic faith is not affected..... Ridiculous but true.

And bad for humanity.
 
Divide Pakistan

Only way out to deal with terrorism is to break up Pakistan. Pakistan has to be sanitised of terrorists and their ideology. Interestingly I found a Pakistani working actively on the same thought;

http://www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com/

He has written a book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". Please liten to his inteviews. This is the way to go.

RK^2
 
RK sir, do yo trust words of politicians? I feel that once he is given power, he'll follow the footsteps of other Pak leaders. I really wonder they havn't killed him like Benajir Bhutto or issue a FATWA for his anti-pakistan activities.
rkumar said:
Only way out to deal with terrorism is to break up Pakistan. Pakistan has to be sanitised of terrorists and their ideology. Interestingly I found a Pakistani working actively on the same thought;

http://www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com/

He has written a book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". Please liten to his inteviews. This is the way to go.

RK^2
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One more Link

rkumar said:
Only way out to deal with terrorism is to break up Pakistan. Pakistan has to be sanitised of terrorists and their ideology. Interestingly I found a Pakistani working actively on the same thought;

http://www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com/

He has written a book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". Please liten to his inteviews. This is the way to go.

RK^2
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Dear RK Sahab,

Here is what our former President says:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Smash_terror_hideouts_Kalam_/articleshow/3931768.cms
 
keshavdahiya said:
well yeah nyu kyukar aaali baat-e to dobb rehi hai.....if we continue with that attitude then we shud be ready to sacrifice more lives.....after all think about the people in J & K and the beauty of the place......whats with terra merra ??
The cost of lives her and across the border are equally important.....above all the hatred and agony we shud be ready to take action someday
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Bhai kaal woh Delhi paar ladne laagenge ussko bhi de denge sahe hia na?
Kaal ko woh hamare family members ko kehne laagenge k ye haame do ussko bhi dedenge bhai ye solution nahe hai k sab dedo.
 
Nahi uncle ji aise kisi ko divide karna theek nahi hai.......isse achha to Nuclear attack hi sahi hai.......kam se kam hamare desk ka ek achha sa test bi ho jaayega

rkumar said:
Only way out to deal with terrorism is to break up Pakistan. Pakistan has to be sanitised of terrorists and their ideology. Interestingly I found a Pakistani working actively on the same thought;

http://www.dividepakistan.blogspot.com/

He has written a book titled "DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM". Please liten to his inteviews. This is the way to go.

RK^2
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Aap bhi nuclear attack ko support karann laag gaye Balyan saab..??

what happened to idea of KHUNDDI BHEET?? Kya woh bhi 'KAAL ka graass' bann gayi hai? :rock:rock:rock:rock


PS: bold aksharon ko jara dhyaan se padhein

sachinb said:
Nahi uncle ji aise kisi ko divide karna theek nahi hai.......isse achha to Nuclear attack hi sahi hai.......kam se kam hamare desk ka ek achha sa test bi ho jaayega
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Nahi Bhai Sangwan I am 100% in favor of Khundi Bheet as it will solve many problem for India,,,,

And moreover we can build this bheet with Community Service aur Bhaage-daari,,,,,,,,,Cost thodi jyaada aayegi shuru mein but it would be worth it,,,,,

Any day Khundi Bheet is much better solution then starting Nuclear War......Because people really dont want to vacate the cities as suggested by RK uncle,,,,,just to know the pulse of people in delhi i met lot of persons and they were reluctant to vacate Delhi,,,,

Main to Guru Hanuman aur Master Chandagi Ram ke akhaade mein pahalwaana te bi millya is baare mein sunte ne ek pahalwan ne to meri gheetti pakad li,,,,,mushkil te kahi ke bhai yu mera idea koni i was just asking you,,,,,,,,

kahne ka matlab hai ki Pahalwaano ka apna tark thaa is baarei mein unhone kaha ki Pakistan se dar kar hum apna shahar delhi nahi chhod sakte

So crux is that no body wanted to vacate the city just because of Nuclear war fear:rock

My engineer freinds are working on it there are certain design related issues they are discussing right now.

anilsangwan said:
Aap bhi nuclear attack ko support karann laag gaye Balyan saab..??

what happened to idea of KHUNDDI BHEET?? Kya woh bhi 'KAAL ka graass' bann gayi hai?


PS: bold aksharon ko jara dhyaan se padhein
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Nishantrathi82 said:
Bhai kaal woh Delhi paar ladne laagenge ussko bhi de denge sahe hia na?
Kaal ko woh hamare family members ko kehne laagenge k ye haame do ussko bhi dedenge bhai ye solution nahe hai k sab dedo.
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I really dont understand in what context are you talking.... "de do"

how on Earth did you infer that I am talking about giving away Disputed part to Paki ??
dude I am stating that let it be a different zone altogether.....controlled by its own judicial system....becoz if the disputed territory has religious bias then what happens to Kashmiri pandits or non-muslim kashmiris ??

Nishant whenever you quote someone....you "MUST" read it carefully and conclude whats the sense ??
 
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I hope you have not told them whose idea it was?? :rock :rock :rock



sachinb said:
i met lot of persons and they were
reluctant to vacate Delhi,,,,

Main to Guru Hanuman aur Master Chandagi Ram ke akhaade mein pahalwaana te bi millya is baare mein sunte ne ek pahalwan ne to meri gheetti pakad li,,,,,mushkil te kahi ke bhai yu mera idea koni i was just asking you,,,,,,,,
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raj2rif said:
Dear RK Sahab,

Here is what our former President says:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Smash_terror_hideouts_Kalam_/articleshow/3931768.cms
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Tavathia Sahab,

Here is a link to the 1965 Indo-Pak war;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakistani_War_of_1965#Covert_operations

As per this link, Pakistan carried out covert operations during that war;
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Covert operations

Pakistani troops drop from a C-130 HerculesThe Pakistan Army launched a number of covert operations to infiltrate and sabotage Indian airbases.[30] On September 7, 1965, the Special Services Group (SSG) commandos were parachuted into enemy territory. According to Chief of Army Staff General Musa Khan, about 135 commandos were airdropped at three Indian airfields(Halwara, Pathankot and Adampur). The daring attempt proved to be an "unmitigated disaster".[30] Only 22 commandos returned to Pakistan as planned, 93 were taken prisoner (including one of the Commanders of the operations, Major Khalid Butt), and 20 were killed in encounters with the army, police or civilians[31] The reason for the failure of the commando mission is attributed to the failure to provide maps, proper briefings and adequate planning or preparation[32]

Despite failing to sabotage the airfields, Pakistan sources claim that the commando mission affected some planned Indian operations. As the Indian 14th Division was diverted to hunt for paratroopers, the Pakistan Air Force found the road filled with transport, and destroyed many vehicles.[33]

India responded to the covert activity by announcing rewards for captured Pakistani spies or paratroopers.[34] Meanwhile, in Pakistan, rumors spread that India had retaliated with its own covert operations, sending commandos deep into Pakistan territory,[32] but these rumors were later determined to be unfounded.[35]
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As mentioned in one of my earlier posts, if the push Mumbai like 1000 terrorists in India, how are we going to handle ? May be in 1965 it was easier to capture those who were dropped by air, however, it will be extremely difficult to deal with Mumbai type situations. Won't the next war be fought almost all over India ? Is India army capable of similer operations deep inside enemy country ?

RK^2
 
That is Fine !!!!

Dear R K Sahab,

Dropping of Commandos behind the enemy lines is an age old practice. I would say that militarily it was a very daring tactical move to drop a few commandos to capture a few air fields. This could help them land more forces behind our defenses, as well as prevent us from using these air fields.

In conventional war these are standard practices. But the questions is as to who want to fight the conventional war with a superior enemy? It is precisely because of this reason the "State Sponsored Terrorism" came in to being.

What we need to do is give a response, while keeping our internal security schemes in order. We have a long way to go, but unfortunately we get our attention diverted every time by some other things. Most politicians are more interested in keeping their jobs and making money rather than the national security and upliftment of common men.
 
Correctly said Col Sahab, these are very common practice during conventional wars. Dropping commandoes behind enemy lines is daring as well as a move to offset hostile country plans at bigger level.

At smaller level routine TBPs are sent to gain vital info about enemy and its also considered to be a very risky task considering the small composition of the party which has to operate inside enemy's territory.

Today instead of fighting conventional war with India because of very obvious reasons, Pakistan has resorted to a well planned move for starting a Proxy.

If some body reads the book "Bear Trap" then will find how interestingly these proxy war are fought and planned.

Countering the proxy war requires a different strategy as you have said and we need not wage full fledged war unless we have world oppinion with us, we have to consider the fact that today the world is Unipolar with USA as only single superpower. Russia is consolidating but as of today they have to go a long way. So considering all these the support of USA also counts for taking any serious decision like waging a war with Pakistan. We must also remember that war is a costly affair and to be used only as a last resort.

There is one Haryanvi saying which fits in today's situation where USA is the only Super Power,,,,,,,,,,it goes as:-

""Thaadhe(Strong) ki Bahu sab ki Daadi, ar Maade(Weak) ki Bahu sab ki Bhaabhi!!!!"" :rock

raj2rif said:
Dear R K Sahab,

Dropping of Commandos behind the enemy lines is an age old practice. I would say that militarily it was a very daring tactical move to drop a few commandos to capture a few air fields. This could help them land more forces behind our defenses, as well as prevent us from using these air fields.

In conventional war these are standard practices. But the questions is as to who want to fight the conventional war with a superior enemy? It is precisely because of this reason the "State Sponsored Terrorism" came in to being.

What we need to do is give a response, while keeping our internal security schemes in order. We have a long way to go, but unfortunately we get our attention diverted every time by some other things. Most politicians are more interested in keeping their jobs and making money rather than the national security and upliftment of common men.
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Very important, useful & interesting information & ideas have been contibutted by all participents, specially by Col Tavethia & sh. RK Kalkhande. In brief I would like to submit few lines for the consideration of our learned jalanders.
1 Deal the enemy with in our house, before Pak
2 Establish rule of law & seperate religion, caste & area from the Governing system.
3 Tighten the internal & external security.
4 Stop all entries of pakies & Indians to each others area.
(Remember, offensive Defence is always batter defence.

5 Isolate the pak economically, physically & politically.
6 Harm the economy of pak by all means.
7 Give five slaps to pak for his one. pay him in same quine immediately.
8 Create all possible internal problems in the pak.
9 Start undeclared war against pak on all possible fronts.
10 we have to handle elder brother of pak , the china, very very intelligently & tactfully and unsure that no worth help from china reaches to pak.
11 We all have to be mentally & physically prepared to face the problem & shortout the pak. The example of Israle is very simple & suitable.
 
I have come to believe very strongly that;

1. Pakistan and India can never be friends
2. India has to deal with Pakistan on its own
3. Countries like USA and China will have their own interests both in India and Pakistan and can not be expected to endorse Indian views totally.
4. India has to be in a war mode almost full time to deal with Pakistan and possibly China.
5. We can not fight decisive war unless we sort out internal issues.
6. India can not get away from Nuclear option when it come to Pakistan and therefore our public needs to be educated and prepared for Nuclear war.
7. Jihadi war on India needs to be paid back in same coin. Pakistani cities need to be bombed at least three times more than they bomb our cities.
8. Pakistan needs to be broken into pieces once for all. Neither strong nor weak Pakistan is in India’s favour.

RK^2
 
rkumar said:
I have come to believe very strongly that;

7. Jihadi war on India needs to be paid back in same coin. Pakistani cities need to be bombed at least three times more than they bomb our cities.

8. Pakistan needs to be broken into pieces once for all. Neither strong nor weak Pakistan is in India’s favour.

RK^2
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Kalkhandeji

Israel has been fighting against jihad for seven decades...... no everlasting peace or success !

We broke Pakistan into two in 71. Now there are two equally hostile enemies on both sides. Army victory but political defeat.



The question of peace can't be addressed at military analysts' level. The root of the problem is the ideology that Pakistan follows (and gets support from all other such countries hostile to non-beleivers). Till such time Pak or any other place remains Wahabi, lleave India, the world will not see peace. So the culmination of this war (between humanity and the believers) lies in Saudia Arabia. The cancer started from there and has to be uprooted from there only. Pakistan is just a small manifestation of the bigger malaise.
 
raj2rif said:
Dear Sampuaran Singh Ji,

These are the type of people we have to deal with in the Islam. Same Islam also has given people like our former President Dr. Abdul Kalam.
Did Abul Kalam became what he did because he is a Muslim ?

How many such ppl Islam has produced in last 1400 years, outside this subcontinent ?
Why these people have been able to spread hatered, is because of lack of education of Islamic Women. Madarsas, and Maulvis are spreading hatered against rest of the world, to make money and for their own survial. When people run out of ideas, they turn to Religion and History to raise passion among public which unfortunately gets swayed by their passionate speeches. These fundamentalists are excellent sales people and do sell their ideas to earn unflinching loyalities of the people. You can imagin their skills, that people are prepared to give their lives for them. That is the cause and not every single muslim on the face of earth. More we categorize every muslim to be identified with them, more we will help them and that is the exact point I am trying to make.

Ayesha Andrabi is an educated woman. She leads the fundamentalist brigade in the valley. Most terrorist today are well educated professionals having lived in liberal democratic societies. why do they still want to destroy the same societies ? .......... Preachings of mullash . And from where do they derive their sermons ? . ... The only and true word of God, as per their claim.

Its not just today, since inception their ways and means have been same. If terrorism is bad today, it was inhuman even in seventh century. A brief insight can be had at www.historyofjihad.com



I agree with you on Ms. Bhutto's history when she came to power. But then while her's was a democratically elected government, it was not a stable government. She still had to deal with the Military Junta within Pak which since at the inception of Pakistan has remained the single most dominating factor in that country's politics. The problem is that a weak military will not be able to deal with the fundamentalists within that country, while a strong military does not allow a democratically elected government to survive.

Jinnah and Allam Iqbal did not have military to confront or pleae.. What happened on Direct Action Day ?

It is a delicate balance, that we have to find. May be all military aid to this country must cease. International community should help the elected government to survive against their own military.

The most important thing that the international community needs to do at this time, as I see it is the taming of ISI. This organization has become extremely powerful. We need to freez all their assets and do some thing to either make it subservient to Pakistan's elected government or completely eliminate it. I am sure for that one does not require use of nuclear weapons.

For a start these actions are Ok. But there is a limit to effectiveness of coercion.
In any case a person is hell bent upon doing something even at the cost of his life, you have no choice. As Soviet Foreign Minister had said, " You may not be interested in war. But war is interested in you. "



We also need to protect the rights of people in Indonesia and Malaysia. That should be done through diplomacy. Hard sanctions can bring a halt to these things in those countries. The problem there must be addressed ASAP before it becomes unmanageable.
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How ?

Actually we are already beyond pt of redemption. Indonesia is 80% Islamic, so is Malayasia. Earlier they swore by Ramayan. thts is bygone. Recently Clergy declared Yoga as Haraam in Malayasia. The PM then said - Practice Yoga but don't recite the Hindoo Mantr.
 
Now Britain and USA are saying Pakistan can try those terror leaders in pakistan! Indian Leaders are saying that is okay! How is it okay since as Pakistani president says they are non-state actors! So why is he is saying they cannot be send to India? The terror acts took place in India and not Pakistan and since they are non-state actors Pakistan should let India try them.
But why should it? Because it created them, supported them, armed them, trained them and some of its ISI and military officers are hands in glove with them...So if the terrorist leaders are send to India they will disclose all of it...
Indian PM sent New year greetings to pakistani PM!
Public memory is fading.. and politicians are playing with Indian public again and this saga goes on without any end...again and again...
Pakistani ISI chief gives interview to a german magazine and says this about Taliban moving freely in Pakistan and why Pakistan is not apprehending Taliban leaders, "Shouldn’t they be allowed to think and say what they please? They believe that jihad is their obligation. Isn’t that freedom of opinion?’ Pakistan is playing double game and everyone knows...and no one has the guts to do anything about it and Pakistan knows that it can get away with it as it has been for long time....and this goes on and on...
The problem started when Mohmmed Bin Qasim came....and occupied Sind...and...then came Ghazni, Ghori, slave kings, Mughals and rest is history....
 
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