Worlds biggest fraud... again by USofA

[brahmtewatia]

"global warming"... well the word is not new, but the news definitely are...

once again USofA is in news for apparently, which might turn out to be one of the biggest fraud to hit the planet earth. the evidence that the human-caused global warming/climate change effort may constitute one of the biggest scams in all of human history continues to mount after the news broke late at the night of nov. 19th tht large amount of data had been stolen from one of the major climate research institutions by an unknown hacker and made available on the internet.

The institution is the University of East Anglia Climate Research Unit (CRU), home institution for Dr. Phil Jones and one of the world’s centers of research into Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW), or "Climate Change".

They’re calling it “Climategate.” The scandal that the suffix – gate implies is the state of climate science over the past decade or so revealed by a thousand or so emails, documents, and computer code sets between various prominent scientists released following the leak. The hackers released about 172 megabytes of data, and we can be sure examining it closely will take some time. But after a few days, certain things are beginning to become clear. There is simply too much evidence that “the world’s leading climate scientists” (as they are always described — at least up until a few days ago) at the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit were cooking the data.

• The data appears to be largely, perhaps entirely, authentic.
• The emails are incendiary.
• The implications shake the scientific basis for AGW, and the scientific reputations of some of AGW’s major proponents, to their roots

Ian Plimer, a decorated scientist and author of the most influential book debunking global warming : Heaven+Earth: Global Warming - The Missing Science which exposed the fraud of global warming calls the CRU behavior criminal.

Every year, CRU, in cooperation with the UK Meteorological Office’s Hadley Centre, publishes the global mean temperature for the past year. Hadley/CRU is widely considered to be the most authoritative record of the world’s temperature history and is widely cited in the press.

... please share your views vis-à-vis this apparent fraud nd “global warming”… what we have to believe now ? how can we trust any institution or agency or a country of any repute.

is it all manipulation ?
even the science/scientists nd scientific findings ?

who knows so many of similar findings might would have been molded to serve the avaricious interests of the world's superpower.

 

[sunillathwal]

.
.
.
is it all manipulation ?
even the science/scientists nd scientific findings ?

who knows so many of similar findings might would have been molded to serve the avaricious interests of the world's superpower.[/COLOR][/FONT]

Sometime back there was one article in 'The Hindu' related with the manipulation of 'global warming' data. [i don't remember the content in details] but the author (one Indian scientist) asserted that most of the available data (and hence the conclusions) on India's emission of greenhouse gases are highly manipulated. He further gave one specific example: Data collected (rise in temperature or some related entity; not sure) by the Indian team was 400-500% lower than that reported by FORNERS earlier!!

So.. Yes, even the scintific findings CAN be manipulated... why not.. after all, all these studied are funded by the Govt. or private industries... And to have 'sustained funding', scientists/investigators have to show some positive results.. otherwise Dhan tai Nan.

Even if the Data is collected accurately (and with ethics); it can be interpreted in different ways (not necessarily all of these 'ways' point to same thing).
Ignore some part of data terming it as insignificant, play around with factors involved, highlight thing what u want to prove and Bingo! you have new interesting findings!! :rock
i have a deep respect for statistics but statistics do NOT always tell the truth.

 

[sunillathwal]

Something related with the topic:

http://newsbusters.org/node/10796

 

[dahiyarules]

who knows so many of similar findings might would have been molded to serve the avaricious interests of the world's superpower.[/COLOR][/FONT]

Your allegations against the United States are unwarranted. United States as a sovereign entity has never proven to be part of any such manipulation.

I don't understand why you guys (other anti-American posters on this forum) are always out there with your daggers held high to bleed the United States and its people (not literally) for whatever reason you can find. Even if you claim to hold the United States Government responsible for something, you need to realize that the Government and American people are separate entities. The views, needs and best interests of the American people in general may not be best represented by those in the Government and vice-versa.

Coming to the "Global Warming," I have always been skeptical of the claims made by the supporters of the theory. I am always willing to have a reasonable conversation with supporters of the Global Warming Thoery, but for them the debate is over.

But being skeptical of the Global Warming Theory does not mean we need to plunder earth's scarce resources. The by-products of our consumption are not easily absorbed by the environment. Thus wasteful consumption of resources leads to an overall decline in the quality of the environment.

An example is an island of trash, the size of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch), floating in the Pacific. For every bottle of drinking water not consumed, it means one less bottle in a garbage patch somewhere in the ocean.

People like Al-Gore who are the front-men of the "man-made Climate Change Scam," cause people like me to become skeptical of their views just by the fact how they live their own lives. They fly places in private jets while they want ordinary people like me and you to ride lawnmowers to work. They live in humongous air-conditioned mansions (http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002088.html and http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/6/14/025331.shtml) while they expect you and me to pull the air-conditioning units out of our houses because they are supposedly killing Polar Bears.

Everyone loves to look at Polar Bears. No one wants them dead. Similarly no one wants to breathe polluted air or drink dirty water. But, all this needs to be achieved in a reasonable manner. The Global Warming Scam is a way to get ordinary people to cut their consumption so the elites have more to consume. It is a propaganda driven by greed and selfishness.

Now, I do not doubt the credibility of the endeavors of those among the ordinary people who have fallen for the Global Warming Scam. They sincerely believe in the lies of the elites who are promoting the scam. However they fail to notice that the elites themselves are not making the kind of sacrifices that they expect you and me to be making to savel Planet Earth.

Please see that I am not denying the evidence that earth may be warmer during recent years than it has been in the past. I am just skeptical about the cause of such warming. By that I mean to ask if its caused by man or is it occurring naturally due to solar activity? To what extent can such warming be reversed by altering human activity? But according to the promoters of the Great Global Warming Swindle, I am not supposed to ask any questions because for them "the debate is over."

 

[urmiladuhan]

Your allegations against the United States are unwarranted. United States as a sovereign entity has never proven to be part of any such manipulation.

I don't understand why you guys (other anti-American posters on this forum) are always out there with your daggers held high to bleed the United States and its people (not literally) for whatever reason you can find. Even if you claim to hold the United States Government responsible for something, you need to realize that the Government and American people are separate entities. The views, needs and best interests of the American people in general may not be best represented by those in the Government and vice-versa.

Coming to the "Global Warming," I have always been skeptical of the claims made by the supporters of the theory. I am always willing to have a reasonable conversation with supporters of the Global Warming Thoery, but for them the debate is over.

But being skeptical of the Global Warming Theory does not mean we need to plunder earth's scarce resources. The by-products of our consumption are not easily absorbed by the environment. Thus wasteful consumption of resources leads to an overall decline in the quality of the environment.

An example is an island of trash, the size of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch), floating in the Pacific. For every bottle of drinking water not consumed, it means one less bottle in a garbage patch somewhere in the ocean.

People like Al-Gore who are the front-men of the "man-made Climate Change Scam," cause people like me to become skeptical of their views just by the fact how they live their own lives. They fly places in private jets while they want ordinary people like me and you to ride lawnmowers to work. They live in humongous air-conditioned mansions (http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002088.html and http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/6/14/025331.shtml) while they expect you and me to pull the air-conditioning units out of our houses because they are supposedly killing Polar Bears.

Everyone loves to look at Polar Bears. No one wants them dead. Similarly no one wants to breathe polluted air or drink dirty water. But, all this needs to be achieved in a reasonable manner. The Global Warming Scam is a way to get ordinary people to cut their consumption so the elites have more to consume. It is a propaganda driven by greed and selfishness.

Now, I do not doubt the credibility of the endeavors of those among the ordinary people who have fallen for the Global Warming Scam. They sincerely believe in the lies of the elites who are promoting the scam. However they fail to notice that the elites themselves are not making the kind of sacrifices that they expect you and me to be making to savel Planet Earth.

Please see that I am not denying the evidence that earth may be warmer during recent years than it has been in the past. I am just skeptical about the cause of such warming. By that I mean to ask if its caused by man or is it occurring naturally due to solar activity? To what extent can such warming be reversed by altering human activity? But according to the promoters of the Great Global Warming Swindle, I am not supposed to ask any questions because for them "the debate is over."

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nice post Sumit. I find United States one of the best countries in the world.

 

[dahiyarules]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Nice post Sumit. I find United States one of the best countries in the world.

No country is perfect. Similarly, America has its own problems. But the good thing about it is that people here take it upon themselves as their personal responsibility to sacrifice to help their country or for that matter any other country in the world.

The very Americans who are looked down upon as invading cold-blooded murderers, are surprisingly the most charitable people in the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16638810).

I have never been to a nation as united in purpose or seen people as patriotic and dedicated to their country as America and its people. We are having some tough time here but I am sure we will emerge stronger when its all over and we will continue to be "the shining city on the top of a hill," for generations to come.

 

[urmiladuhan]

are surprisingly the most charitable people in the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16638810).

Are you sure? Was it not Norway/Sweden until last year?

 

[dahiyarules]

Are you sure? Was it not Norway/Sweden until last year?

Do the Math! United States has the largest GDP in the world, a smaller % of American GDP could still be greater in dollar numbers compared to a greater % of GDP of Norway/Sweden.

On a lighter side, people in European countries are so heavily taxed that by the time they have their Tax Holiday, they have barely left anything to pay their bills. Charity in such a scenario is unimaginable.

 

[mishti]

Your allegations against the United States are unwarranted. United States as a sovereign entity has never proven to be part of any such manipulation.

I don't understand why you guys (other anti-American posters on this forum) are always out there with your daggers held high to bleed the United States and its people (not literally) for whatever reason you can find. Even if you claim to hold the United States Government responsible for something, you need to realize that the Government and American people are separate entities. The views, needs and best interests of the American people in general may not be best represented by those in the Government and vice-versa.

Coming to the "Global Warming," I have always been skeptical of the claims made by the supporters of the theory. I am always willing to have a reasonable conversation with supporters of the Global Warming Thoery, but for them the debate is over.

But being skeptical of the Global Warming Theory does not mean we need to plunder earth's scarce resources. The by-products of our consumption are not easily absorbed by the environment. Thus wasteful consumption of resources leads to an overall decline in the quality of the environment.

An example is an island of trash, the size of Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pacific_Garbage_Patch), floating in the Pacific. For every bottle of drinking water not consumed, it means one less bottle in a garbage patch somewhere in the ocean.

People like Al-Gore who are the front-men of the "man-made Climate Change Scam," cause people like me to become skeptical of their views just by the fact how they live their own lives. They fly places in private jets while they want ordinary people like me and you to ride lawnmowers to work. They live in humongous air-conditioned mansions (http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002088.html and http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/6/14/025331.shtml) while they expect you and me to pull the air-conditioning units out of our houses because they are supposedly killing Polar Bears.

Everyone loves to look at Polar Bears. No one wants them dead. Similarly no one wants to breathe polluted air or drink dirty water. But, all this needs to be achieved in a reasonable manner. The Global Warming Scam is a way to get ordinary people to cut their consumption so the elites have more to consume. It is a propaganda driven by greed and selfishness.

Now, I do not doubt the credibility of the endeavors of those among the ordinary people who have fallen for the Global Warming Scam. They sincerely believe in the lies of the elites who are promoting the scam. However they fail to notice that the elites themselves are not making the kind of sacrifices that they expect you and me to be making to savel Planet Earth.

Please see that I am not denying the evidence that earth may be warmer during recent years than it has been in the past. I am just skeptical about the cause of such warming. By that I mean to ask if its caused by man or is it occurring naturally due to solar activity? To what extent can such warming be reversed by altering human activity? But according to the promoters of the Great Global Warming Swindle, I am not supposed to ask any questions because for them "the debate is over."

Boond-boond se sagar bharta hai.
The efforts of a single person might appear minuscule, but still they can’t go down the drain. Why worry about others ?!!
Change begins at home, change begins with you.

 

[daivischahal]

No country is perfect. Similarly, America has its own problems. But the good thing about it is that people here take it upon themselves as their personal responsibility to sacrifice to help their country or for that matter any other country in the world.

The very Americans who are looked down upon as invading cold-blooded murderers, are surprisingly the most charitable people in the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16638810).

I have never been to a nation as united in purpose or seen people as patriotic and dedicated to their country as America and its people. We are having some tough time here but I am sure we will emerge stronger when its all over and we will continue to be "the shining city on the top of a hill," for generations to come.

...SORRY TO EVERYBODY......I AM GOING OOF-TOPIC.....

dahiya bhai kya hamara BHARAT bhi kabhi no.1 ban sakta hai ?
mujhe nahi lagta ki aisa kabhi hoga.....hamara talent to AMERICA jaisi country ko TOP par le jaane me ji-jaan se juta hua hai.....america ki development ke liye prayer or efforts lagata hai.....aisi situation mein hamare BHARAT ko aage kon lekar jayega......
BHARAT ki sabse badi problem ye hai ki yahan ke logon ma desh ke prati bahut hi kam feelings hai.....or iska sabse bada kaaran hai BRAIN-DRAIN...jo log dusaron ko sahi raaste par laane me help kar sakte hai, unme desh-bhakti ki bhavna jaagrit kar sakte hai, wo to foreign chale jaate hai.....pichhe(yahan bharat me) bas wo rah jaate hai jo apni 2 waqt ki roti ke liye saari umar ladate rahate hai.....wo kabhi is situation me nahi hote ki kabhi desh ke baare mei bhi soche.....

lekin jis tarah aap apne DESH ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karte ho usi tarah main bhi apne BHARAT ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karta hun......

 

[annch]

On same lines as Sunil's post:
Disraeli- "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics."
Is it all manipulation? No, it is more a case of presentation of selective data to support your agenda on the table. Like Al Gore presented the extreme events to highlight impact of global warming. His documentary was widely challenged scientifically for facts, but it did raise
much needed awareness about global warming.

Here's a link to the article in Time, that has a mention of the news reported in Brahm's post. Despite the skepticism about global warming and human contribution towards it, Obama would be committing to bringing down carbon emissions (Sumit's elitist theory of consumption seems to be applicable to elite nations (and not just elite people) versus others!!!). US is excellent in marketing for its own/ its allies good, so its idea would wade through...
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1929071_1929070,00.html

As for this incidence casting doubt on other scientific findings, well, science is not absolute. Every scientific theory undergoes evaluation and criticism before gaining acceptance. It would also be susceptible to re-evaluation with the emergence of new thoughts, data and technologies. If someone can rationally challenge the theory and it is worth the efforts, then why not!!!

is it all manipulation ?
even the science/scientists nd scientific findings ?

who knows so many of similar findings might would have been molded to serve the avaricious interests of the world's superpower.

 

[annch]

Sandeep, off topic but right said!!!!

...SORRY TO EVERYBODY......I AM GOING OOF-TOPIC.....

dahiya bhai kya hamara BHARAT bhi kabhi no.1 ban sakta hai ?
mujhe nahi lagta ki aisa kabhi hoga.....hamara talent to AMERICA jaisi country ko TOP par le jaane me ji-jaan se juta hua hai.....america ki development ke liye prayer or efforts lagata hai.....aisi situation mein hamare BHARAT ko aage kon lekar jayega......
BHARAT ki sabse badi problem ye hai ki yahan ke logon ma desh ke prati bahut hi kam feelings hai.....or iska sabse bada kaaran hai BRAIN-DRAIN...jo log dusaron ko sahi raaste par laane me help kar sakte hai, unme desh-bhakti ki bhavna jaagrit kar sakte hai, wo to foreign chale jaate hai.....pichhe(yahan bharat me) bas wo rah jaate hai jo apni 2 waqt ki roti ke liye saari umar ladate rahate hai.....wo kabhi is situation me nahi hote ki kabhi desh ke baare mei bhi soche.....

lekin jis tarah aap apne DESH ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karte ho usi tarah main bhi apne BHARAT ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karta hun......

 

[brahmtewatia]

My allegations agnst USA are not unwarranted.

Your allegations against the United States are unwarranted. United States as a sovereign entity has never proven to be part of any such manipulation.

I don't understand why you guys (other anti-American posters on this forum) are always out there with your daggers held high to bleed the United States and its people (not literally) for whatever reason you can find. Even if you claim to hold the United States Government responsible for something, you need to realize that the Government and American people are separate entities. The views, needs and best interests of the American people in general may not be best represented by those in the Government and vice-versa.

re: anti-american stance of members:

it’s not about taking out daggers and picking every damn reason to blame america for any good or mis-deed(s), but the fact remains that YES… america happens to be the one big reason for so many woes that have been inflicted by this world-power to the common man through-out the world. whether you start frm charles ponzi to kenneth lay of ‘enron’ or take ‘worldcom’ on the corporate side or the recent financial pandemic and now this climategate… USofA has a big role to play. can you deny that ? guess not… period.

i think it’s the other way round, as i feel you to be more pro-american rather than other members being anti-american… point fingers at USA and you will find sumit dahiya standing with लट्ठ in one hand nd जेली in other, plus a mobile launcher tucked on his back. भाई रे इतना भी सूधा कोन्या यो अंकल SAM, लम्बर एक का खुरापाती मानस सै यो... कती ऐडा अन्ना.

Jokes apart, in one of the recent threads there was a bit of heated discussion on bush’s aspirations vis-à-vis iraq. to me, there is no denial to the fact that immidiately after seeking power to the presidency, bush moved aggressively towards Iraq to complete the undone work of his father in gulf war, obviously with a hawk eye on the world’s biggest oil reserves… leaving the state in total mess, chaos and turmoil.

on the similar lines, we can just imagine ‘what would have happened, had al-gore could have come to power, being the president of usa’… any wild guess can go wild here… it goes w/o mentioning “global warming is to al gore what WMD’s were to george bush”. i’m pleased to learn that we saw only bush and not al-gore, or else we might have to hunt for the slaughter of polar bears, following their unchecked population explosion... courtesy al-gore.

honestly, i must confess that i’m impressed with your knowledge (as has been apparent from your recent posts) on american stance, its affairs nd matters. however, i do concur and would not like to argue, when you say... ['The views, needs and best interests of the American people in general may not be best represented by those in the Government and vice-versa’].[FONT=&quot]at the same time, please don’t forget that almost, always this is the case with every nation. the state and the subject, both go hand-in-hand together. the head of any state is always held responsible for anything that goes under his regime. last year’s bombay siege 26/11 (just yesterday) can be quoted as an example when all guns were pointing towards manmohan singh. [/FONT]

for rest, thanks for your views… indeed for the promoters of the great global warming swindle “the debate is over”… and as rightly pointed by you, we must not shrug away from our responsibilities to make this planet earth, a better place to live… but again tell me who is the biggest culprit for these CO2 and green-house emissions ???… i’m sorry, but once again it happens to be USofA.

concur, wholeheartedly here...
v
v

No country is perfect. Similarly, America has its own problems. But the good thing about it is that people here take it upon themselves as their personal responsibility to sacrifice to help their country or for that matter any other country in the world.

The very Americans who are looked down upon as invading cold-blooded murderers, are surprisingly the most charitable people in the world (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16638810).

I have never been to a nation as united in purpose or seen people as patriotic and dedicated to their country as America and its people. We are having some tough time here but I am sure we will emerge stronger when its all over and we will continue to be "the shining city on the top of a hill," for generations to come.

 

[virj]

...SORRY TO EVERYBODY......I AM GOING OOF-TOPIC.....

dahiya bhai kya hamara BHARAT bhi kabhi no.1 ban sakta hai ?
mujhe nahi lagta ki aisa kabhi hoga.....hamara talent to AMERICA jaisi country ko TOP par le jaane me ji-jaan se juta hua hai.....america ki development ke liye prayer or efforts lagata hai.....aisi situation mein hamare BHARAT ko aage kon lekar jayega......
BHARAT ki sabse badi problem ye hai ki yahan ke logon ma desh ke prati bahut hi kam feelings hai.....or iska sabse bada kaaran hai BRAIN-DRAIN...jo log dusaron ko sahi raaste par laane me help kar sakte hai, unme desh-bhakti ki bhavna jaagrit kar sakte hai, wo to foreign chale jaate hai.....pichhe(yahan bharat me) bas wo rah jaate hai jo apni 2 waqt ki roti ke liye saari umar ladate rahate hai.....wo kabhi is situation me nahi hote ki kabhi desh ke baare mei bhi soche.....

lekin jis tarah aap apne DESH ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karte ho usi tarah main bhi apne BHARAT ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karta hun......

Its not right to discuss this here may be start a new thread on this but one question Y u worry about the ones who have already left the battlefield (just a chinease saying not pinning anyone). ? Can't you take your country ahead? Dont you have the talent? I believe everyone has talent just need to be polished and channeled in the right direction.

 

[dahiyarules]

...SORRY TO EVERYBODY......I AM GOING OOF-TOPIC....

lekin jis tarah aap apne DESH ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karte ho usi tarah main bhi apne BHARAT ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karta hun......

I do not believe in rivalry among nations to claim some hypothetical number spot. I believe in the general improvement of human welfare. I believe every citizen whether in India or the United States, should strive to improve the lives of their fellow citizens and set an example for other societies.

The world is one big home for all humans. Look up the definition of a nation in the dictionary. Nations used to be a sub-set of people with similar characteristics. Now nations are landmasses with clearly demarcated boundaries.

In my present situation I am best able to concentrate my efforts to first help those who are immediately around me. I expect the same from anyone living anywhere else in the world. I would have done the same if I were still back in India. In fact I have always wished the best for India.

Finally, coming to the issue of brain-drain. Its another of those "blame the British" kind of kinky theories. There is ample talent in India. It just lacks the right kind of infrastructure. India is a victim of an Institutional failure. Government policies have not resulted in the results that they promised. I mean, come on! India still has one of those multi-year plans. Even the Russians stopped having those. After blaming the British for all those years for all the miseries in India, Brain-Drain is the new pinetta to beat on for the politicians in India.

A more localized example of what I am talking about is this whole new MNS thing going on in Maharashtra. A few people think that it is the people from out of state who are responsible for the miseries of Marathis.

Dont get me wrong, but I am about to get very harsh. Tell me one thing you did today that you think helped improve the life of another person. It doesnt matter if it is something as ordinary as throwing trash in a designated area and not taking a leak on the roadside.

The problem with India is that people are pathologically selfish and self-centered. Its evident just from the way people drive. Everyone wants to get ahead of others. No one cares about jumping stop lights. People defecate on the streets. There are no lines. Its a free for all.

I look at India as a Darwinian petri-dish, i.e: a classic example of the survival of the fittest. There is no concept of concern for others. Starting from the bottom level where people commit petty robberies, to the top level where elected and bureaucratic officials are busy padding their pockets; everyone in India is just too busy thinking about themselves.

India does not need therapy.India needs a shock therapy. There has to be a revolutionary change in the way conduct themselves if they really want to see India as a civilized country (sic). Mind it that a country may be developed but it may not be civilized. It is more important for a society to be civilized than to be developed.

When I read Hindu mythology and about Indian history, it leaves me wondering if we as in the current generation of Indians descended from those very people who built an India of a different era. The current environment in India will not conceive a Valmiki or a Swami Dayanand Saraswati. India lacks the spirituality that it was known for thousands of years.

So, coming back to where I started. Its not about numbers. I see a twinkle in the eyes of people here when they talk about how well India is doing (economically). These are the very people who sent food aid to India in the sixties when we were starving. They still do that for Sudan and other African countries.

Conclusion: Do your best to help those around you. It does not matter where you are. Love your fellow human beings.

 

[dahiyarules]

re: anti-american stance of members:

it’s not about taking out daggers and picking every damn reason to blame america for any good or mis-deed(s), but the fact remains that YES… america happens to be the one big reason for so many woes that have been inflicted by this world-power to the common man through-out the world. whether you start frm charles ponzi to kenneth lay of ‘enron’ or take ‘worldcom’ on the corporate side or the recent financial pandemic and now this climategate… USofA has a big role to play. can you deny that ? guess not… period.

i think it’s the other way round, as i feel you to be more pro-american rather than other members being anti-american… point fingers at USA and you will find sumit dahiya standing with लट्ठ in one hand nd जेली in other, plus a mobile launcher tucked on his back. भाई रे इतना भी सूधा कोन्या यो अंकल SAM, लम्बर एक का खुरापाती मानस सै यो... कती ऐडा अन्ना.
[/COLOR]

For some reason you think I take it personally when people talk negatively about America. The problem with me is that you need to differentiate between America and Americans. These are two separate entities. You speak from what you can see from there. I am speaking from what I can see here.

Americans in general are truly compassionate people. They trust their Government's intentions to be good just like their own. This attitude of "trusting the Government," comes down from the days of World War 2 when citizens from all walks of life worked shoulder to shoulder on assembly lines and invested their savings in Government bonds to fight what the government called the "Good War."

That trust in the Government has eroded considerably in recent times. People here are realizing that their interests and the Government's interests may not be aligned anymore.

Coming to my being defensive about America, I take it personally because the opinion of Americans that you try to create is not the opinion I have from what I see here. I have always been welcomed here with open arms and warm smiles. The least I can do is to speak the truth on behalf of those Americans who harbor good intentions for the rest of the world.

 

[virj]

.

Dont get me wrong, but I am about to get very harsh. Tell me one thing you did today that you think helped improve the life of another person. It doesnt matter if it is something as ordinary as throwing trash in a designated area and not taking a leak on the roadside.

The problem with India is that people are pathologically selfish and self-centered. Its evident just from the way people drive. Everyone wants to get ahead of others. No one cares about jumping stop lights. People defecate on the streets. There are no lines. Its a free for all.

I look at India as a Darwinian petri-dish, i.e: a classic example of the survival of the fittest. There is no concept of concern for others. Starting from the bottom level where people commit petty robberies, to the top level where elected and bureaucratic officials are busy padding their pockets; everyone in India is just too busy thinking about themselves.

India does not need therapy.India needs a shock therapy. There has to be a revolutionary change in the way conduct themselves if they really want to see India as a civilized country (sic). Mind it that a country may be developed but it may not be civilized. It is more important for a society to be civilized than to be developed.

Do u mind if u either prove these points or remove these. America also doesn't have clean history. Dont want to start over this.

Cheers !

 

[yudhvirmor]

...SORRY TO EVERYBODY......I AM GOING OOF-TOPIC.....

dahiya bhai kya hamara BHARAT bhi kabhi no.1 ban sakta hai ?
mujhe nahi lagta ki aisa kabhi hoga.....hamara talent to AMERICA jaisi country ko TOP par le jaane me ji-jaan se juta hua hai.....america ki development ke liye prayer or efforts lagata hai.....aisi situation mein hamare BHARAT ko aage kon lekar jayega......
BHARAT ki sabse badi problem ye hai ki yahan ke logon ma desh ke prati bahut hi kam feelings hai.....or iska sabse bada kaaran hai BRAIN-DRAIN...jo log dusaron ko sahi raaste par laane me help kar sakte hai, unme desh-bhakti ki bhavna jaagrit kar sakte hai, wo to foreign chale jaate hai.....pichhe(yahan bharat me) bas wo rah jaate hai jo apni 2 waqt ki roti ke liye saari umar ladate rahate hai.....wo kabhi is situation me nahi hote ki kabhi desh ke baare mei bhi soche.....

lekin jis tarah aap apne DESH ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karte ho usi tarah main bhi apne BHARAT ke no.1 ban-ne ki dua karta hun......

My Friend... It's not brain drain... It's policies of our country those never recognized or value the talent.. Majority of us who are living or working overseas are mediocre but we got chance to excel in other part of world because some Gora/Gori spent their time to mentor us and we worked hard and added value in thier system and in our personal and professional life. Infoys used to get best talent from IITs/IIMs but it failed to create any decent piece of software like Oracle, peoplesoft, SAP, Microsoft, IBM and many more..because they had short vision of making money by doing body shopping...
Please don't say that brain-drain is the reason behind our current state.. We didn't recognize the talent and we are still not doing it. Please ask any MBBS guy if he/she wants to stay in India... they are badly paid.. majority of them work 18-20 hours per day during internship and please ask some gal how senior doctors treat them.. Buddy system has to changed and it'll be done by one person.. vision/direction is always from one person and it can be implemented by masses..

 

[brahmtewatia]

Do u mind if u either prove these points or remove these. America also doesn't have clean history. Dont want to start over this.

Cheers !

do you mean to say india had a clean history ? if your answer is YES, then what happened ?
...
if you dont want to start it over, please elaborate your thoughts but not by one liners and by pointing fingers/questioning others viewpoint.

agree in toto to post # 15, as i draft my reply thoughts further, on the ensuing subject.

 

[virj]

do you mean to say india had a clean history ? if your answer is YES, then what happened ?
...
if you dont want to start it over, please elaborate your thoughts but not by one liners and by pointing fingers/questioning others viewpoint.

agree in toto to post # 15, as i draft my reply thoughts further, on the ensuing subject.

I didint say India has a clean history. Who does?? But in India we say jinke ghar sishe ke ho vo dusare par pathar nahi fenkte. Start a new thread or change the topic than I will reply. But U cant generalise Indians as 'Pathologically Selfish' or whatever. This is very offensive. There are a lot who sacrificed their life for the country. There are a lot who are still working for others. If you want to meet them let me know. Again I dont want to point finger against any other country but If you force me to than start a new thread and I will let you know.

Yes, my country has lot of problems but we have strong belief that we will overcome them slowly but surely.

I recommend you work for the betterment of ur country and let us work for our.