12 points by MahaPanchayat - How much you agree?

[brahmtewatia]

millions who went through that program will straight away reprobate your claim. "khaps" have presented a wrong picture of JAT's in general. mr. dhankar's point of view didn't gave any reprieve.

the idea is how the message goes to the masses... that's where mr dhankar failed nd failed miserably. his hyper outburst several times nd irrational comments/responses to lady panelists nd on monoj's mother are ample proof for any 3rd person to comprehend the intellect of these khap leaders.

on this particular show by ndtv... i ask you, why blame media ? in fact media gave you a chance nd these khap leaders failed to show-up their case in rightful manner. though, i felt very disappointed nd let-down for the disgrace brought to our community by usage of words like taliban nd the general reprimand by these pissu's.

Just because Mr Dhankar could not present his view point, does not mean Khaps are not correct.

 

[vivekdh]

very true bhaisaab only bijendra was able to give valid points with valid words. per in final words when Mr. Dhankhar said "mugal raaj ne kosis ki jat ko todne ki aangrejon ne kosis ki jat ko todne ki or ab ye log per ab bhi jisne jat ko todne ki kosis ki hum usse tod denge" ye sunne ke baad muje lagga ki iss baat me jo gussa hai wo jayaz hai.
Bijendra ji ne bhi kaha kuch iss terha ki baat kahi final words me that we follow some rules as community we don't need you to understand but you have to respect them or leave us alone.

or jahan tak jo bahan thi video conf me jiski maa per comment kiya gaya tha wo galat tha per jo uss bahan ne gaon ke sabhi bade bhuddo ke liye kaha tha wo uski maansikta dikha raha tha ki kitni sad chuki hai wo

millions who went through that program will straight away reprobate your claim. "khaps" have presented a wrong picture of JAT's in general. mr. dhankar's point of view didn't gave any reprieve.

the idea is how the message goes to the masses... that's where mr dhankar failed nd failed miserably. his hyper outburst several times nd irrational comments/responses to lady panelists nd on monoj's mother are ample proof for any 3rd person to comprehend the intellect of these khap leaders.

on this particular show by ndtv... i ask you, why blame media ? in fact media gave you a chance nd these khap leaders failed to show-up their case in rightful manner. though, i felt very disappointed nd let-down for the disgrace brought to our community by usage of words like taliban nd the general reprimand by these pissu's.

 

[malikdeepak1]

or jahan tak jo bahan thi video conf me jiski maa per comment kiya gaya tha wo galat tha per jo uss bahan ne gaon ke sabhi bade bhuddo ke liye kaha tha wo uski maansikta dikha raha tha ki kitni sad chuki hai wo

Bhai Vivek whatever the girl said is TRUE to a major extent. Gaon me wo sab kaam hote hai jo us ladki ne bole. Us ladki ki mansikata ko to sad kah diya bhai par us tau ki mansikta ka kya jisne national TV pe ye kaha ki "iski maa to apne aadmi ne kha rhi hai!". Us tau ki mansikta kitni pavitr hai ye to unki isi baat se pta chalta hia.
Jaha tak mujhe yaad hai Nitin ne bhi ye baat sahi kahi thi ki "ijjat us time kaha jati hai jab kheto me chamariyo ke piche jate hai??" Bhiran aave hai dhaan laan to unke sath kya-kya hota hia khet me, wo bhi sabko pta hai.
Akkhad hokar bolne se kayi bar sahi baat ka bhi galat matlab maan liya jata hai. Jo aadmi 2 baat apne againast nahi sahen kar sakta, usko "khap" ke faisle lene ke liye kaise chuna "mojij" logo ne, smjh si me nahi aayi ya baat!!

 

[jitendershooda]

Masala news.
Just because Mr Dhankar could not present his view point, does not mean Khaps are not correct.
Mr Bijender Mann put his point through very well.
In fact Both Mr Bijender and Mr Dhankar were conveying same thing. Khaps are correct.
Now just because of Mr Dhankar's presentation if you want to deviate the issue and blame khaps for everything, be my guest...

That is why I am forcing upon HOME WORK. Dalal bhai these people are not at all preparing answers before hand. Neither they are giving way to other logical reasonings than themselves. They call for panchayats/seminar on this matter and suddenly a hijack happens and no resolution came out. They stood at the same point from where they have started their first meeting. Not ready to leave what is not relevant and put this relaxation in first point to highlight.

I was trying to bridge this gap between extra Liberals like Jagmati Sangwan and these Khaps. But it seems it also will not happen as each and everybody is having some motto behind their support to any viewpoint. They are willing to talk in front of media but dont want to have a conversation among educated from both sides without media.

I am putting here questions but nobody from the khap supporters are paying any attention to answer those. And if someone tries he get offended very soon without any result out of it. If they are not strong in their view point backed by TARQ's then they are bound to be subject to Mockery in media and society too.

Ghani kolli bhar ke challenge to koe faeda na. We 12 point banan ki jarute konya thi. Sirf Same Gotra and Maa ke gotra pe resolution nikalo. This way they will be backed by all castes, More people from the same cast (In that case you can expect 99% votes to that option on this poll), educated masses. Also in media too they would have been able to make their mark.

Now you see in every discussion media people are easily able to exploit and establish their pre-determined point keeping Khap representatives in darker side in front of audience. Because we have given substance to them. Khap leaders when quote Juctice Saab to get ammendment, they forget everytime that he is forcing to keep minimum points to go forward.

Make a list of medical reasonings, researches done regarding the same and just keep one point ...... Amend Constitution to Void the marriages between couples of same gotra and maa ka gotra. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS.

Yo kare te ... Gaam ki Gaam mein hon aali aadhi se jyada bimari kat jyagi ... being many villages of one gotra. Also in a panchayat they openly can state that they will not be going to support any honour killings. If any couple get married in the same village in different gotra then village have liberty to socially boycott them. Also Khede ke gotr ka point to chodna hi padega ... eeb nahi to agle 4-5 saal mein. You cant get this included in law by any means. Same is with gohand ka gaam.

 

[jitendershooda]

Panchayat ka matlab hai ki wahan SABHAYTA se bola jata hai. Jab bhi koe panchayat shuru hoti hai to ek statement badi common hai .... "Bhaiyo koe KACCHA-MANDA nahi bolega".

How come the supporters of these Panchayats can dis-obey even the first statement of these Panchayats?

 

[brahmtewatia]

very true bhaisaab only bijendra was able to give valid points with valid words. per in final words when Mr. Dhankhar said "mugal raaj ne kosis ki jat ko todne ki aangrejon ne kosis ki jat ko todne ki or ab ye log per ab bhi jisne jat ko todne ki kosis ki hum usse tod denge" ye sunne ke baad muje lagga ki iss baat me jo gussa hai wo jayaz hai.
Bijendra ji ne bhi kaha kuch iss terha ki baat kahi final words me that we follow some rules as community we don't need you to understand but you have to respect them or leave us alone.

vivek, the hard fact is that we as a community are totally fragmented. all these high-fly words are nothing but give a false sense of pride, cos JAT unity doesn't exist.

ये शब्द सुन-ने मैं बहुत अच्छे लगते हैं. हर जाट का यह सुन-कर खून खौल उठता, परन्तु मेरे भाई, हकीकत वही है जो मैंने ऊपर वाली लाइन में बयान की है.

 

[vicky84]

There is not a single Khap in Sirsa. Villeges have panchayat which are democratically elected bodies as per constitution of India.

I hope you know the difference between a democratically elected Panchayat and a clan (Gotra) oriented Khap.

Khap in Jhajjar helped SP Srikant Yadav to solve 30 murder cases which were pending in the court over a long time.

 

[vicky84]

the idea is how the message goes to the masses... that's where mr dhankar failed nd failed miserably. his hyper outburst several times nd irrational comments/responses to lady panelists nd on monoj's mother are ample proof for any 3rd person to comprehend the intellect of these khap leaders.

on this particular show by ndtv... i ask you, why blame media ? in fact media gave you a chance nd these khap leaders failed to show-up their case in rightful manner. though, i felt very disappointed nd let-down for the disgrace brought to our community by usage of words like taliban nd the general reprimand by these pissu's.

Why don't you see irrational statements by the lady panelist..And also the host of this show(Vijay) passed irresponsible statements .. According to him..murder is OK...left me gobsmacked when i heard those words..Mr OP Dhankhar made some valid points. One was about UN resolution passed on 18 december 1992, which suggest that its the duty of every country to protect clans, culture, customs.. Yes he could not answer in a diplomatic fashion.And he was very straight forward in his responses which gave an advantage to those refugees to portray these Khaps as Taliban.

 

[jitendershooda]

This view was expressed at a programme under continuing medical education (CME) on “Genetic counselling and bioethics” organised by the Department of Psychiatry in collaboration with RML Hospital, Delhi, and the Indian Psychiatric Society, North Zone (Haryana chapter), at the Psychiatric Department of the PGIMS here today. Speaking on genetic counselling, Dr Rajiv Gupta cited the burning issue of same-gotra marriages in Haryana. He claimed that such marriages should be avoided because medical science had proved time and again that marriages among close relatives might lead to genetic disorders in the offspring.
___________________________

Why not we should organise a seminar in SurajMal Institute inviting ONLY the doctors from different genetic deparments from recognised medical institutes and MEDIA too?

 

[brahmtewatia]

we (<<< read JAT's) are the defendants not the plaintiff. कठघरे में हम खड़े हैं, not that lady.

Why don't you see irrational statements by the lady panelist..And also the host of this show(Vijay) passed irresponsible statements

 

[vivekdh]

and also that lady was not able to answer when one jat lady asked her that why they don't do anything about ladies in village.
wo sirf visit karti hain or report bana ke bejti hain or mud ke khabi nahi dekhte ki kya hua. jo ki un lady ke case me bhi hua tha jab unhone iss terha ke har NGo yaa Gov org ko likha or finally Khap ne baith ker faisla kiya.
main ye janna chahta hu ki aaj tak koi jat in punjabi baman yaa sikh issayi muslim kissi ke shaddi bhi ke tarikon ki tensions me involve nahi hua. to jo log jinhone khabi ye dekha nahi viswas nahi kiya yaa samja nahi wo log kon hain jo hume batayenge ki hum galat hain yaa sahi

Why don't you see irrational statements by the lady panelist..And also the host of this show(Vijay) passed irresponsible statements .. According to him..murder is OK...left me gobsmacked when i heard those words..Mr OP Dhankhar made some valid points. One was about UN resolution passed on 18 december 1992, which suggest that its the duty of every country to protect clans, culture, customs.. Yes he could not answer in a diplomatic fashion.And he was very straight forward in his responses which gave an advantage to those refugees to portray these Khaps as Taliban.

 

[vivekdh]

bhaisaab main agar us debate me hotta to uss lady se sirf ek sawal puchta or ye kuch iss terha hotta
"main as a dhankhar sabhi dhankhar ladkiyon ko apni bahan manta hu or meri mother Dabas hain issliye sabi Dabas ladkiyan meri bahan hain or ye main aise manta hu jaise saggi bahan hon. ab agar apke(that lady) ghar me ek beta or ek beti (bhai bahan) jo iss baat ko samajte hue bhi ki unka rista kya hai agar apse pyar ke naam per shaddi ki izzazat mannge to aap kya karogi "

kya tab wo lady ye keh sakti thi ki indian LAW ke hisab se 2 adult hain to shadi ker sakte hain . or agar wo aisa kehti to i give a S*** abt her and she is nobody to discuss these things.

ye aisa hogga jaise kissi nastik(yaa muje) bulaya jaaye bagwan ki puja ki vidhi banane ke liye.

we (<<< read JAT's) are the defendants not the plaintiff. कठघरे में हम खड़े हैं, not that lady.

 

[vicky84]

we (<<< read JAT's) are the defendants not the plaintiff. कठघरे में हम खड़े हैं, not that lady.

Kathghare mei hum khade hain iska matlab ye nahi hai ki Saari baat kissi aur ki maani jaayegi..That program was also biased..But haan ye bhi humari galti hai ki humne unhe chance diya..

 

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

An already complicated issue is being further messed up by the almost non existent public relation skills of the ‘Khap’ representatives/spokespersons. I don’t want to go into the history of ‘Khaps’ and their relevance as many worthy members have already mentioned. My worry and comments are a little different. I am actually aghast at the comments by the so called civil society on this issue. By throwing the constitution of the country and the criminal justice system at us they seem to be telling us that either we start marrying our sisters or else the law of the land will sort us out. There are issues within issues. Wait for the s**t to hit the roof when politicians step in.

Let us also not stretch this point about what Jats do to other castes in the villages. Our rural society is still feudalistic and caste based. Jats are still good people. Ask your friends from Eastern UP & Bihar. Many a cases of honor killings from Western UP have taken place in Muslim families. This should not surprise those who understand the social fabric of village life. Let not the city dwellers try and teach morality to a common Jat who lives in a village. We know what happens in the so called cities. Child labor is prevalent in the houses of those who call themselves educated and elite. The domestic servants are not only bonded but sexually abused too.

I for one would like the Khaps to become relevant in the changing socio-economic milieu. Let clear and unambiguous dictates or fatwas be issued on subjects like child marriage, female feticide, dowry, widow remarriage, water conservation, non conversion of agricultural land for commercial usage and many more issues of relevance. Each ‘Gotra’ must then monitor its decisions. No court or constitution can stop us from following our traditions, provided we are seen to be people who keep up with times and fight social ills.

I met a person the other day and he seemed very upset by Jat bashing taking place in the name of Khap injustice. He told me “Malik saab, iss saare mamle ka ek e illaj se. Sarv Khap ko ye declare kar dena chaahiye ki bhai hum ban ge sein Musalman ar mhara leader se falanaa. Us din sab chup ho jyan ge”. Though I don’t agree with him but even the idea is very dangerous and can lead to disintegration of the nation faster than anyone can even fathom. It would be better for all these pseudo intellectuals who control the media houses not to go beyond a certain point in Khap bashing.

Regards,

JS Malik

 

[brahmtewatia]

Kathghare mei hum khade hain iska matlab ye nahi hai ki Saari baat kissi aur ki maani jaayegi..That program was also biased..But haan ye bhi humari galti hai ki humne unhe chance diya..

atish nd vivek

please read my post again... the idea that i wanted to communicate in my previous post was - as to how the message goes to the 3rd person. what those pissu's are talking then becomes irrelevant. we can get offended on their remarks nd irrationality cos we are of same community... not that lady or the host or any tom/dick nd harry. make no mistakes that our representation was poor nd the message that was carried forward to 3rd person wasn't aptly conveyed.

also read in red... i too, was very disappointed nd felt offended on several of their (at times biased) remarks... mera bhi khoon khaula hai, but what to do ??? i felt like "khisiani billi khamba noche". we have been degraded by our own brethren, be it khap leaders or those who executed those farman's.

millions who went through that program will straight away reprobate your claim. "khaps" have presented a wrong picture of JAT's in general. mr. dhankar's point of view didn't gave any reprieve.

the idea is how the message goes to the masses... that's where mr dhankar failed nd failed miserably. his hyper outburst several times nd irrational comments/responses to lady panelists nd on monoj's mother are ample proof for any 3rd person to comprehend the intellect of these khap leaders.

on this particular show by ndtv... i ask you, why blame media ? in fact media gave you a chance nd these khap leaders failed to show-up their case in rightful manner. though, i felt very disappointed nd let-down for the disgrace brought to our community by usage of words like taliban nd the general reprimand by these pissu's.

 

[vijay123]

UN resolution wali baat theek hai par kya UN resolution violators ko maarne ki permission bhi deta hai. Kisi bhi desh mei kuch fundamental rights hote hai or woh baki kisi bhi law ya rights ko supersede karte hai. Right to life also comes under fundamental right. Agar panchayat sirf unka samajik bahishkaar kar deti to maamla yahan tak nahi pahunchta.

Why don't you see irrational statements by the lady panelist..And also the host of this show(Vijay) passed irresponsible statements .. According to him..murder is OK...left me gobsmacked when i heard those words..Mr OP Dhankhar made some valid points. One was about UN resolution passed on 18 december 1992, which suggest that its the duty of every country to protect clans, culture, customs.. Yes he could not answer in a diplomatic fashion.And he was very straight forward in his responses which gave an advantage to those refugees to portray these Khaps as Taliban.

 

[vicky84]

UN resolution wali baat theek hai par kya UN resolution violators ko maarne ki permission bhi deta hai. Kisi bhi desh mei kuch fundamental rights hote hai or woh baki kisi bhi law ya rights ko supersede karte hai. Right to life also comes under fundamental right. Agar panchayat sirf unka samajik bahishkaar kar deti to maamla yahan tak nahi pahunchta.

Khap Panchayat never ordered such killings. Khap Panchayat condemn such killings. It must be rage among other people which is a cause of such issues.

 

[rsdalal]

Jitender Bhai, Bilkul theek kaha apne.
Shri Dhankad did not have right presentation and same point was coveyed by Mr Bijender Mann, in very polite and convincing manner.

That is why I am forcing upon HOME WORK. Dalal bhai these people are not at all preparing answers before hand. Neither they are giving way to other logical reasonings than themselves. They call for panchayats/seminar on this matter and suddenly a hijack happens and no resolution came out. They stood at the same point from where they have started their first meeting. Not ready to leave what is not relevant and put this relaxation in first point to highlight.

I was trying to bridge this gap between extra Liberals like Jagmati Sangwan and these Khaps. But it seems it also will not happen as each and everybody is having some motto behind their support to any viewpoint. They are willing to talk in front of media but dont want to have a conversation among educated from both sides without media.

I am putting here questions but nobody from the khap supporters are paying any attention to answer those. And if someone tries he get offended very soon without any result out of it. If they are not strong in their view point backed by TARQ's then they are bound to be subject to Mockery in media and society too.

Ghani kolli bhar ke challenge to koe faeda na. We 12 point banan ki jarute konya thi. Sirf Same Gotra and Maa ke gotra pe resolution nikalo. This way they will be backed by all castes, More people from the same cast (In that case you can expect 99% votes to that option on this poll), educated masses. Also in media too they would have been able to make their mark.

Now you see in every discussion media people are easily able to exploit and establish their pre-determined point keeping Khap representatives in darker side in front of audience. Because we have given substance to them. Khap leaders when quote Juctice Saab to get ammendment, they forget everytime that he is forcing to keep minimum points to go forward.

Make a list of medical reasonings, researches done regarding the same and just keep one point ...... Amend Constitution to Void the marriages between couples of same gotra and maa ka gotra. NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS.

Yo kare te ... Gaam ki Gaam mein hon aali aadhi se jyada bimari kat jyagi ... being many villages of one gotra. Also in a panchayat they openly can state that they will not be going to support any honour killings. If any couple get married in the same village in different gotra then village have liberty to socially boycott them. Also Khede ke gotr ka point to chodna hi padega ... eeb nahi to agle 4-5 saal mein. You cant get this included in law by any means. Same is with gohand ka gaam.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Nirupama Pathak killed for marrying outside caste.

http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/video_player.php?id=1224328

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[virj]

Ghani kolli bhar ke challenge to koe faeda na. We 12 point banan ki jarute konya thi. Sirf Same Gotra and Maa ke gotra pe resolution nikalo. This way they will be backed by all castes, More people from the same cast (In that case you can expect 99% votes to that option on this poll), educated masses. Also in media too they would have been able to make their mark.

I disagree on this point. Gaam ki chori bahan/beti mani jati he chahe vo kisi gotra ki ho. Ye point bhi add karna chahiye. Onus is not on us onus is on the media and refugee/ refugan to prove us wrong. Sometime for beliefs there can be no logical/biological reasoning. What there logic reasoing of allowing a Muslim to have 4 wives. Why they allow this? Just because someone written this in a book( probably for his own pleasure ) Whats the biology behind this?

Now you see in every discussion media people are easily able to exploit and establish their pre-determined point keeping Khap representatives in darker side in front of audience.

As Samar said earlier us discussion me hamne bhi bula lo.

Also Khede ke gotr ka point to chodna hi padega ... eeb nahi to agle 4-5 saal mein. You cant get this included in law by any means. Same is with gohand ka gaam. Make a list of medical reasonings, researches done regarding the same and just keep one point

It can be discussed within community not in fornt of media. And the community would decide whether to push these to get included in the law or not as earlier said " whats the biological reason for a hindu not to eat beef. Beef meat is considered good for health. It has Zinc, Iron and many vitamins. I am sure their study of medical/biology would favour eating it."

We don’t have to justify these to anyone. The community should decide within themselves and these people (media and other refugee/refugan) has to agree to that.

Sorry for being blunt par hamne inti justificaion den ki ke jaroorat he. Honour killing is a different issue aur ham sab ki ek rai he uspe. Honour killing is mostly done by the family itself and its done by one harijan of my nearby village and no one said anything. Baki ye medical har biology