"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

[rakeshsehrawat]

Let's start with knowing the most basic value a community can stand for- respect for women......

Tell me the name of single community (Except Politicians that too fake)which stands for it.
Jat hi milenge bus mein ye kehte hue ki "Are o kungar khada ho le chori khadi hai"

 

[ravinderjeet]

I had expected a reply of this sort. It takes a lot to be generous and show respect for another human being. Baaki aapki ichcha.

me gaandhi waadi nahi hu,mere signature padh lo.jhoothi izzat naa liyaa karoon er naa diyaa karoon.respect must come from both sides.ibb women tein human being hogyaa.

 

[arvindc]

Sir, I really want to appreciate your effort in explaining/discussing/ the khaps BUT majority of your audience know 'everything'. Questions raised by you in your last post have been proved futile time in other threads (for the absence of any answer from the concerned 'knowing alls').

I have ABSOLUTELY no DOUBT that most of 'these' gentlemen have never been to a panchayat, never seen how a Khap Panchayat works. Without having any iota of idea about the khap/panchyat's functioning, they label them MEAN (some go to extent of labeling them Talibani, barbaric and murderous).

Many members including myself have raised many genuine questions in support of khap system. There are many threads where these issues were discussed and some brilliant arguments were put forward by members. But none of these 'enlightened प्राणी' have given any rational answers to any of those arguments. They read what they want to read and move ahead.
After a lull of 1-2 days.. same rhetorics about khaps.... in a different thread. One can even do "right click+select all+Search google for ..." their post and find the "source" of their enlightenment... news papers' comments-section.

In a jiffy they put forward the argument of 'a democratic country has no place for khaps' or 'Courts are there for resolving issues' without having any idea of kind of issues folks from villages face or kind of co-dependency prevails in villages even today.
Any argument against khap (Dalit Virdohi, poor Virodhi, women-sexuality oppression [do not shock, many claim this]) holds true for police, courts and conventional panchayats also but only khaps are problematic (my guess is: खाप शब्द में नाम-दोष है; two 'a's or two 'h's in the new khhaap might change the people's perception towards it).

One facet of this problem is --Though these anti- khap elements have no first (or second or third) hand knowledge of khaps (thanks to urban upbringing- their idea of village-life is mostly shaped by electronic and print media, which in turn is again बैंगन of the same बेल)-- they have good writing skills and hence influencing others (otherwise virgins) also with their own distorted version of khaps. On the other hand, those of us who actually know khaps are by default taken as गंवारs. Anything you put in favor of khaps is taken as an irrational blabbering. Poor writing skills (and although true but misplaced logics on our part) does not help us either.
In my opinion, more than rural-folks, these anti-khap wagons of all ilks NEED to open their minds. Writing in english or using fancy word does NOT NECESSARILY means you are right !! Nothing wrong in warming to the idea that Khaps exist even today because they are still relevant to people.


But then: मुझे नहीं लगता की इन 'enlightened भैंसों' के आगे बीन बजाने का कोई फायदा है... आप बेकार में अपना समय व्यतीत कर रहे हैं| These illuminatis are cocksure about everything.

Well said Sunil. I really appreciate it. Thanks for putting it down so nicely.

I my self have seen how the judiciary works (even at the level of High court). A common man would be lucky to get justice in such a system. You can easily see it, be it the Bhopal gas verdict, and so in lot's and lot's of other cases. Ruchika's case comes in the category of lucky ones as the case reopened only because a political mileage could be made out of it.

The Khap system is a need for Indian society. Agreed, it has many flaws too and there is an urgent need to re-engineer it so that Khaps do not become an instrument for settling political/personal scores.

The Khap system needs to be revived and improved, not discarded.

 

[arvindc]

And the same guys will got to the college/university and will harass females students making indecent comments.

Agreed that this happens. However, if you say that this is only applicable to Jats then, I think you have never been out of your town or state. Also, those you sit quietly does not mean that they do not have such intentions. Given a chance, they would probably be more indecent and cruel.

In my experience, those who come quietly and wait behind bushes for appropriate opportunity are more dangerous then those who openly announce their presence.

 

[jitendershooda]

The Khap system needs to be revived and improved, not discarded.

Exactly!!!

 

[brahmtewatia]

Main prakashit ho gaya !... I am enlightened.

One facet of this problem is --Though these anti- khap elements have no first (or second or third) hand knowledge of khaps (thanks to urban upbringing- their idea of village-life is mostly shaped by electronic and print media, which in turn is again बैंगन of the same बेल)-- they have good writing skills and hence influencing others (otherwise virgins) also with their own distorted version of khaps. On the other hand, those of us who actually know khaps are by default taken as गंवारs. Anything you put in favor of khaps is taken as an irrational blabbering. Poor writing skills (and although true but misplaced logics on our part) does not help us either.

In my opinion, more than rural-folks, these anti-khap wagons of all ilks NEED to open their minds. Writing in english or using fancy word does NOT NECESSARILY means you are right !! Nothing wrong in warming to the idea that Khaps exist even today because they are still relevant to people.

But then: मुझे नहीं लगता की इन 'enlightened भैंसों' के आगे बीन बजाने का कोई फायदा है... आप बेकार में अपना समय व्यतीत कर रहे हैं| These illuminatis are cocksure about everything.

it's not like this sunil, कदे कदे भैंस के आगे बीन बजान त वा नाच भी पड़े है... भाई रे तू न्यू ऐ ही बीन बजाता रह. अगर एक भैंस नाची है तो चान्सिस हैं की देखम देख और भैंस भी नाच पड़ें... देअर इज अ सेइंग इन इंलिश दैट द भैंस's औफ़ द सेम फ्लौक डांस टूगैदर.

i confess, that i've never seen the operation/proceedings of a village panchayat or that of a khap maha-panchayat. i also confess that my knowledge is mostly limited to the information that i gather from in nd around me... incidently, they too happen to be urbanites.

make no mistakes, that i'm not the least influenced by what that has been put by our spineless media. for that matter, i don't even trust 100% authenticated news by indian media, instead i check the same news on other channels/media.

i hold you as a very sensible nd rational member of the forum. at the same time, i've been through the views of many other sensible members on this forum. i still have no reasons to believe in all what has been said by you nd all those other members w.r.t. to khap nd related issue's. but, i see a very logical reasoning addressed by you nd others that compels me to believe that all that glitters is not gold.

i confirm that i'll keep my opinion and/or bashing towards 'khaps' reserved from now onwards.

 

[raka]

Hema Malini te byah karaan ke chakkar mein Dharmendra Dilawar Khan ban gya tha.

achhaaa isene caste kaho so k .............. ? Dharmender ne dharm badlya tha naa ke caste .

 

[raka]

चौधरी साहब,
हम तो भैंस के आगे बीन बजा-बजा कर थक चुके है |
अब आप भी कोशिश करके देख लीजिये, शायद किसी को कुछ समझ आ जाए !

bhai us din puchhe tha ke gaon kaa naam batao jisme gaon ki gaon me shaadi ho s ..........le is choudhary (naqli) ne bata diya gaon kaa naam eb paad de iska puchhad..........

 

[mohitkumar]

Anjoo ji why we need to do so, we should think first before then go ahead.

And if a jat marries a Brahmin, who is highest in varna system, what happens then?

 

[singhvp]

I have ABSOLUTELY no DOUBT that most of 'these' gentlemen have never been to a panchayat, never seen how a Khap Panchayat works. Without having any iota of idea about the khap/panchyat's functioning, they label them MEAN (some go to extent of labeling them Talibani, barbaric and murderous).

One facet of this problem is --Though these anti- khap elements have no first (or second or third) hand knowledge of khaps (thanks to urban upbringing- their idea of village-life is mostly shaped by electronic and print media, which in turn is again बैंगन of the same बेल)-- they have good writing skills and hence influencing others (otherwise virgins) also with their own distorted version of khaps. On the other hand, those of us who actually know khaps are by default taken as गंवारs. Anything you put in favor of khaps is taken as an irrational blabbering. Poor writing skills (and although true but misplaced logics on our part) does not help us either.
In my opinion, more than rural-folks, these anti-khap wagons of all ilks NEED to open their minds. Writing in english or using fancy word does NOT NECESSARILY means you are right !! Nothing wrong in warming to the idea that Khaps exist even today because they are still relevant to people.


But then: मुझे नहीं लगता की इन 'enlightened भैंसों' के आगे बीन बजाने का कोई फायदा है... आप बेकार में अपना समय व्यतीत कर रहे हैं| These illuminatis are cocksure about everything.

Dear Illuminati,

In your opinion, what is the desirable/qualifying duration of village life for getting first hand information and thereby being eligible to write about khaps and its traditions? I presume a domicile certificate is not required for writing about villages and the way of life prevalent there. One cannot so authentically put an unsolicited urbanite tag on all those who are, unfortunately, not finding possible to agree to the khap system in totality. It is highly unfair to discard those illuminatis across the line that could be more rural and traditional knowing better than those who proclaim to be the real villagers to suit their convenience at times. Knowledge can be acquired anywhere on any subject provided one has sufficient means viz. books, newspapers, internet, e-books, television and mobile phones etc. It is humanly not possible to acquire first hand information on every subject - nor is it important unless one is doing some doctorate on that particular subject.

All that appears in black and white in mass media is not crap. There might be a few newspapers/channels that are distorting the facts but 90% of our information is gathered from these sources only. No Indian Scientist did ever get first hand information on the principles of physics from Newton or Einstein directly. Even then we cannot negate their contribution to development of science & technology which is based merely on their bookish knowledge and laboratory experiments. All the Astro-Physicists do not happen to go in space, but most of them know a lot about space and their thesis is accepted as authentic by NASA.

Having said the above, let me clarify that this is not to question your rural credentials. I trust that you might have dedicated your whole life to your village and have sufficient knowledge of village life, traditions and also about khap system. But my dear friend do not totally discard others as trash. All those who are not supporting your views were not born in Paris, New York or London. All of them have not studied at Harvard, Oxford or Princeton either. By dint of their hard work, if they are able to write a few correct sentences of English, let them do so. What is the harm. From your side, you also try your best to write ‘Queen’s English’, I suppose. Do you want people to write bad English? Come on buddy, cheer up. Let people have some liberty of prose writing.

 

[fateh]

Dear Illuminati,

In your opinion, what is the desirable/qualifying duration of village life for getting first hand information and thereby being eligible to write about khaps and its traditions? I presume a domicile certificate is not required for writing about villages and the way of life prevalent there. One cannot so authentically put an unsolicited urbanite tag on all those who are, unfortunately, not finding possible to agree to the khap system in totality. It is highly unfair to discard those illuminatis across the line that could be more rural and traditional knowing better than those who proclaim to be the real villagers to suit their convenience at times. Knowledge can be acquired anywhere on any subject provided one has sufficient means viz. books, newspapers, internet, e-books, television and mobile phones etc. It is humanly not possible to acquire first hand information on every subject - nor is it important unless one is doing some doctorate on that particular subject.

All that appears in black and white in mass media is not crap. There might be a few newspapers/channels that are distorting the facts but 90% of our information is gathered from these sources only. No Indian Scientist did ever get first hand information on the principles of physics from Newton or Einstein directly. Even then we cannot negate their contribution to development of science & technology which is based merely on their bookish knowledge and laboratory experiments. All the Astro-Physicists do not happen to go in space, but most of them know a lot about space and their thesis is accepted as authentic by NASA.

Having said the above, let me clarify that this is not to question your rural credentials. I trust that you might have dedicated your whole life to your village and have sufficient knowledge of village life, traditions and also about khap system. But my dear friend do not totally discard others as trash. All those who are not supporting your views were not born in Paris, New York or London. All of them have not studied at Harvard, Oxford or Princeton either. By dint of their hard work, if they are able to write a few correct sentences of English, let them do so. What is the harm. From your side, you also try your best to write ‘Queen’s English’, I suppose. Do you want people to write bad English? Come on buddy, cheer up. Let people have some liberty of prose writing.

M dear VP, absolutely there is no harm or nothing wrong expressing in a good language also nothing wrong in participation by urban people or those have less knowledge about the subject, but certainly such people should avoide passing judgements, passing sercastic comments & projecting others views as wrong/ untrue/ unsuitable/irrelivent, Dear, I rquested in my previous post about your sub caste & khap, is it possible to know from you please. regards

 

[sunillathwal]

Dear Illuminati,

In your opinion, what is the desirable/qualifying duration of village life for getting first hand information and thereby being eligible to write about khaps and its traditions? I presume a domicile certificate is not required for writing about villages and the way of life prevalent there. One cannot so authentically put an unsolicited urbanite tag on all those who are, unfortunately, not finding possible to agree to the khap system in totality. It is highly unfair to discard those illuminatis across the line that could be more rural and traditional knowing better than those who proclaim to be the real villagers to suit their convenience at times. Knowledge can be acquired anywhere on any subject provided one has sufficient means viz. books, newspapers, internet, e-books, television and mobile phones etc. It is humanly not possible to acquire first hand information on every subject - nor is it important unless one is doing some doctorate on that particular subject.

All that appears in black and white in mass media is not crap. There might be a few newspapers/channels that are distorting the facts but 90% of our information is gathered from these sources only. No Indian Scientist did ever get first hand information on the principles of physics from Newton or Einstein directly. Even then we cannot negate their contribution to development of science & technology which is based merely on their bookish knowledge and laboratory experiments. All the Astro-Physicists do not happen to go in space, but most of them know a lot about space and their thesis is accepted as authentic by NASA.

Having said the above, let me clarify that this is not to question your rural credentials. I trust that you might have dedicated your whole life to your village and have sufficient knowledge of village life, traditions and also about khap system. But my dear friend do not totally discard others as trash. All those who are not supporting your views were not born in Paris, New York or London. All of them have not studied at Harvard, Oxford or Princeton either. By dint of their hard work, if they are able to write a few correct sentences of English, let them do so. What is the harm. From your side, you also try your best to write ‘Queen’s English’, I suppose. Do you want people to write bad English? Come on buddy, cheer up. Let people have some liberty of prose writing.

With all due respect, Balderdash!!

 

[singhvp]

With all due respect, Balderdash!!

With all humility, balderdash deserves balderdash!!!

 

[singhvp]

M dear VP, absolutely there is no harm or nothing wrong expressing in a good language also nothing wrong in participation by urban people or those have less knowledge about the subject, but certainly such people should avoide passing judgements, passing sercastic comments & projecting others views as wrong/ untrue/ unsuitable/irrelivent, Dear, I rquested in my previous post about your sub caste & khap, is it possible to know from you please. regards

Fateh Singh ji,

Thanks for your nice and mature comments. I did not notice your earlier request asking sub-caste & Khap. My apologies. My surname/sub-caste is Dhankhar.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Please read the article :


एक अच्छी भैंस खरीदने के लिये 60 से 70 हजार रुपये खर्च करने पड़ते हैं। एक अच्छी लड़की 10 से 15 हजार में मिल जाती है। कई मामलों में मर्द अपनी हवस पूरी होने पर ऐसी पत्नी को आगे बेच देता है। समाज का अमानवीयकरण हो रहा है।

He can be contacted at chaudhrydr AT rediffmail DOT com for comments/discussion.

Thanks

Dear D R Chaudhry

What an interesting article!

Is it your suggestion, that the jats are selling their women for Rs 15,000 ( to fulfill their 'Havas')?

Could you provide some details?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

Hema Malini te byah karaan ke chakkar mein Dharmendra Dilawar Khan ban gya tha.

Exceptions prove the rule

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

Fatehji, I have corrected the spelling of your name in the above post. I am sorry about that unintentional mistake. What's sunni?
I read your post again. I'd have appreciated if you could have listed all the points you agreed with, but it is okay if you don't want to. Thanks for your reply. Regards.

Kapil

Fatehji is senior to most of us.He is also head of the Kharab Khap.

He means- Dear Son, by 'Sunni'

I too am going to request, members,( including Fatehji) to give a detailed response- agreement , disagreement- point form


Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

if a women work against society ,why that women wants respect from the same society.

ravinderjeet

Women, as far as I know do not work against society. They are part of it.

There are other threads for this important topic.


Please post there
Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

Anjoo ji why we need to do so, we should think first before then go ahead.

Anjoo

Traditionally

Girls marrying into jats , become Jats , as do their offspring.

There is no differentiation- none of this high low caste business.

Old saying 'Jat ke Aayi jatni kelayii'

Jat girls who marry into other communities, have to abide by the rules and customs of those communities. They will lose their jat identity.


This is the case with patriarcal communities.

In Matriarchal communities the customs may be different.

This has nothing to with respect for womenkind.

 

[annch]

Ravi ji,

Appreciate your revert.

However, my post was an extension of a thought/post by Upender ji and should not have been taken in isolation.
Please pardon my ignorance, why is high/ low caste business not relevant in case of jats? Because we are placed in "not-so-flatterring" place in hierarchy? I guess that's a discussion for another thread.

Regards

Anjoo

Traditionally

Girls marrying into jats , become Jats , as do their offspring.

There is no differentiation- none of this high low caste business.

Old saying 'Jat ke Aayi jatni kelayii'

Jat girls who marry into other communities, have to abide by the rules and customs of those communities. They will lose their jat identity.


This is the case with patriarcal communities.

In Matriarchal communities the customs may be different.

This has nothing to with respect for womenkind.