Non jat girls married to jat guys... do you consider them Jatnis??

[vijay123]

I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

 

[sunillathwal]

I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

If by vice verse you mean that a Jatni marrying a non-jat is no more a Jatni, then i don't think that 20 odd years of Jatism (whatever that means) will disappear suddenly. So, in a sense, she will always be a Jatni.
and if we go by conventional definitions: yes chamaar k byahi, chamaari kahaliye!! Male-dominated society etc.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

Well, that way Jats have different dialects, customs and traditions. A jat from Sirsa marrying a Jatni from MP or central UP. What will you make out of that??
Similarly, A Jat and Panjaban from, say Panipat, have more or less same dialect and customs? how pertinent is your definition of Jatism in this case?

Anyway, i believe that the saying, " Jat k byahi, jatni kavahaii" , was more of a foretoken of accommodating inter-cast marriages.

 

[vijay123]

If by vice verse you mean that a Jatni marrying a non-jat is no more a Jatni, then i don't think that 20 odd years of Jatism (whatever that means) will disappear suddenly. So, in a sense, she will always be a Jatni.
and if we go by conventional definitions: yes chamaar k byahi, chamaari kahaliye!! Male-dominated society etc.

Actually I meant to say that non Jat guys marrying to a Jatni can not be Jat. Agree with you here that a Jat or Jatni will remain jat irrespective of whom they marry.

Well, that way Jats have different dialects, customs and traditions. A jat from Sirsa marrying a Jatni from MP or central UP. What will you make out of that??
Similarly, A Jat and Panjaban from, say Panipat, have more or less same dialect and customs? how pertinent is your definition of Jatism in this case?

No, its not that straight forward, one has to see in perspective. Even a Punjaban having same dialect wont have all the traits. It is difficult to summarize or put in writing each and everything of that. For eg: Jat attitude. A jat dont think anyone (including bahman) above him in terms of caste hierarchy and that will show in his/her interaction with other castes too. You will see jats not afraid of consuming large quantity of milk and desi ghee or gud. Put that in front of a non jat and they will say ki pet mei dard ho jaaga jey kha liya to.

Another interesting this is that even if a Jatni is from MP not aware of dialect etc, she will be accomodated by the family memebers with full support. Bring in a non Jatni and she will remain same forever. I still remember one or two instances where someone married a baniya/bahamani and village folks still calling her as bahamni or banni. No one say jatni. They will say ki falane ka chora bahamni le aaya...

 

[somveerd]

Does it make any big difference.For all this one has to do analysis before shadi.

 

[anilsangwan]

Main thing in any marriage is how compatible bride and groom are with each other.... Life may become hell even of both are Jats but not compatible. At the same time, both may enjoy their life to the fullest despite being from other castes.... So let us focus on more important aspect first...

Secondly, yes... intercaste marriage is long debatable topic... but then under three situations one goes for this kind of alliance:

1. Boy/girl belonging to different castes are in love. Love is blind and does not see castes...
2. Boy or Girl are over-age (or some other reason) and hence not finding suitable match easily and thus going for any catse alliance. Example - jats marrying Biharans.
3. Metropolitan cases... castes do not matter to them.


In case 1 and 2 above - I dont thing anyone is interested in looking at the caste... in 3rd case, who bothers..

Fir mera conclusion to yeh hai ki yeh topic matter of discussion nahi hai normal cases mein..........

 

[arvindsindhu]

Bhaiyon Royal Blood flows in Royal Veins only.... Ab chaye kuch bhi keh lo....

 

[ritu]

what is the definition of a jatni for you?I do not know about dna theory but for me jatni is girl who is well versed in jat traditions ,language and attitude.if a girl does not match up with it be a jat or non jat can never be a true jatni.

I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

 

[prashantacmet]

Nice speech ritu ji

 

[ritu]

Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

i wish you had paid attention to your signature .life bring changes in ppl thinking and behavior.but sadly i logged in after few months to get in touch with fellow jl members...and realized some will never change.

 

[upendersingh]

I have read on this forum few times that non Jatnis married to Jat guys become Jatnis but not vice verse.

I agree with vice verse thing but at the same time I myself also do not agree that non Jatnis (Bahmni, baniya, biharan, rajput, chamari, jogan etc) can become Jatnis by marrying jats. It is in DNA and can not be acquired by taking seven feras with a jat guy, how would a non jatni who has not lived among jats explain and teach the jat traditions to her kids when she herself wont know. How will she know the dialect? On the contrary she will avoid the dialects, traditions etc and try to impose hers on the kids. Please post your views and participate in the poll.

Such girls are under process for being Jatnis. As some undertraining policeman or doctor can not be considered as a policeman or doctor in same way such girls can not be considered as Jatnis, but such couples' 3rd or 4th generation kids will be considered as Jats (provided it will be the burried truth that some woman 3rd or 4th generation ago was a non-jat in the dynasty). If such girls want to be considered as Jatnis then they should move to such place to live where no one knows about them. They should adopt all Jat characterstics including dialect and tell others that they are Jats (As such girls' husband is a Jat so no one will suspect them).
I don't think that who are pure Jats here (kids of both mother and father Jats), there was no intercaste marriage in their dynasty ever (I should say there may be such possibility in some Jats here)...can anybody tell who was the grandmother of his grandfather...? I think mostly will answer 'no'....but such guys are pure Jats because no one knows it that some woman was a non-Jat in their dynasty.

 

[vijay]

i wish you had paid attention to your signature .life bring changes in ppl thinking and behavior.but sadly i logged in after few months to get in touch with fellow jl members...and realized some will never change.

Change is constant and brings equilibrium in life.
Its another matter that few people brings changes for the better while some other for the worst.

 

[deswal100184]

well of course not. and it does not matter. this bound to happen sooner later everywhere as the independence and free will become more prevalent.

 

[devikajakhar]

R V Jats Frm GERMANY?

Does that mean we are doing the same racial profiling that the NAZIS DID IN WW2? They went back to grandparents era and if they found jewish blood, they were condemned as jews and killed.
An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". No, wonder many of us Jats continue to have this Oh, so superior NAZI attitude, which the yanks here will have us clobbered for. If V continue this "V Jats R superior" attitude and DNA, racial profiling etc...the U.S, may bring this to the notice of the international society - that V JATS R NAZIS IN DISGUISE (Jus' Kidding)

Due to skewed sex ratio, there are lots of Jat guys out of sheer desperation, marrying even Kerala Girls, for e.g. Karnam Malleshwari married a Haryanvi Jat..

So V stick to the simplest truth in life gleaned from the book "Tibetan Book of Living and Dying". All of us die...lets live a life of simplicity and happiness...with none superior or inferior.

Such girls are under process for being Jatnis. As some undertraining policeman or doctor can not be considered as a policeman or doctor in same way such girls can not be considered as Jatnis, but such couples' 3rd or 4th generation kids will be considered as Jats (provided it will be the burried truth that some woman 3rd or 4th generation ago was a non-jat in the dynasty). If such girls want to be considered as Jatnis then they should move to such place to live where no one knows about them. They should adopt all Jat characterstics including dialect and tell others that they are Jats (As such girls' husband is a Jat so no one will suspect them).
I don't think that who are pure Jats here (kids of both mother and father Jats), there was no intercaste marriage in their dynasty ever (I should say there may be such possibility in some Jats here)...can anybody tell who was the grandmother of his grandfather...? I think mostly will answer 'no'....but such guys are pure Jats because no one knows it that some woman was a non-Jat in their dynasty.

 

[upendersingh]

Does that mean we are doing the same racial profiling that the NAZIS DID IN WW2? They went back to grandparents era and if they found jewish blood, they were condemned as jews and killed.

No, we Jats are not Nazis or alike. We Jats are very kind, merciful, hardworking, loyal, patriot and brave people. We can't do so. In fact, we don't have Nazi's like problem. It is not enough to say 'we are best'. How are you best, That's the real question. One must have logics before saying so. Isn't it? We have logics, but Nazis didn't.

An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". No, wonder many of us Jats continue to have this Oh, so superior NAZI attitude, which the yanks here will have us clobbered for.

Germany is not as great country as India, so I will not be happy even if your American friend's theory is true. We Jats have got a lot from the soil of India, so it is every Jat's duty to pay back as ever, if needed.

If V continue this "V Jats R superior" attitude and DNA, racial profiling etc...the U.S, may bring this to the notice of the international society - that V JATS R NAZIS IN DISGUISE (Jus' Kidding)

In such case U.S. will be made understand, what we want to convey. It should be seen in the sense of creating competition spirit and I bet they will find themselves in worry as they too are nothing to us (Americans are mental slaves of an Israeli 'Jesus Christ').

Due to skewed sex ratio, there are lots of Jat guys out of sheer desperation, marrying even Kerala Girls, for e.g. Karnam Malleshwari married a Haryanvi Jat..

Don't you watch Discovery or National Geographic like channels? When one area's lions attack the other area's lions, then winner lions kill the loser lions, but not the lioness. In a group of monkey, the chief welcomes she monkeys of other group, but not the male monkeys. It is natural. So problem will be when Jat girls will start going to the Kerala's males.

So V stick to the simplest truth in life gleaned from the book "Tibetan Book of Living and Dying". All of us die...lets live a life of simplicity and happiness...with none superior or inferior.

Devika Ji, this book seems to be some bullcrap I think as it is preaching equality. In this way this book preaches to not to work harder. According to the theme of this book, in a class we shouldn't motivate the students to work harder and we should ask them to be lazy (because none is superior or inferior). In some company, same salary should be given, be it shirker or hard worker.

Recently Samar had said in one of his posts that 'Nature had made things according to Her plan, not according to the petty thoughts of humanity.'

Very true. Try to understand the nature of this world, Devika Ji. Performance matters here.

 

[anilsangwan]

Probably, that is why this site is also names like jatland........ :rock ..... also, it would be interesting to know if what Mr Venkat has to say here on this theory? :rock :rock

An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". .

 

[singhvp]

So problem will be when Jat girls will start going to the Kerala's males.

Very true. Try to understand the nature of this world, Devika Ji. Performance matters here.

Recently Samar had said in one of his posts that 'Nature had made things according to Her plan, not according to the petty thoughts of humanity.'

Hmm. Very bad. Upender, this is male chauvinism and a dangerous gender bias. If male-folks of Jats have a right to marry outside caste, why not females.

Do you think girls/women are under-performers? Even if they are, their performance should not be linked to their freedom of marital options.

Man has always been tempering with nature to make it suitable for his convenience. So, we can change the marital rules of nature, if the same prohibit marrying outside caste.

 

[singhvp]

Does that mean we are doing the same racial profiling that the NAZIS DID IN WW2? They went back to grandparents era and if they found jewish blood, they were condemned as jews and killed.
An American friend theorised that V Jats came from an ancient GERMAN PROVINCE CALLED "JUTLAND". No, wonder many of us Jats continue to have this Oh, so superior NAZI attitude, which the yanks here will have us clobbered for. If V continue this "V Jats R superior" attitude and DNA, racial profiling etc...the U.S, may bring this to the notice of the international society - that V JATS R NAZIS IN DISGUISE (Jus' Kidding)

Due to skewed sex ratio, there are lots of Jat guys out of sheer desperation, marrying even Kerala Girls, for e.g. Karnam Malleshwari married a Haryanvi Jat..

So V stick to the simplest truth in life gleaned from the book "Tibetan Book of Living and Dying". All of us die...lets live a life of simplicity and happiness...with none superior or inferior.

Very mature thoughts.

 

[upendersingh]

Hmm. Very bad. Upender, this is male chauvinism and a dangerous gender bias. If male-folks of Jats have a right to marry outside caste, why not females.

The marriages, mentioned in related posts, are neither arranged nor love marriages. Mostly those poor girls are bought. It is clear that the parents of such poor girls either don't toil in fields or they don't try to come out of the web of poverty. If Jat girls also start to be sold to the others, then it will be a matter of shame for us.

Do you think girls/women are under-performers? Even if they are, their performance should not be linked to their freedom of marital options.

You mistook the word 'performance'. We Indians used to plough our fields and we had gathered huge amount of wealth around year 1000. Then some hungry and poor people started attacking and plundering us. Was it fair? What was our fault? Would somebody come forward to do the justice? After that Britishers came here as they had developed guns, while we still had petty swords to fight. They ruled us for a long period. Would somebody come forward to do the justice? When we Indians vowed to perform and got ready to sacrifice then the things changed. So I meant that 'performance' (karma in other words). Sometime before Kashmiris had asked the Kashmiri Pandits that 'your females can live in valley, but not you (males).' Would now somebody come forward to do the justice?
Actually all such great preachings can be followed if others too follow these. We follow, but others don't, then it will be self-destructive. It means we don't want to perform here. We just want to live in comfort zone. We shouldn't let our girls marry in other caste without testing their love for the other caste's boy. Love should always be tested.

Man has always been tempering with nature to make it suitable for his convenience. So, we can change the marital rules of nature, if the same prohibit marrying outside caste.

Sir, mostly people these days think same (e.g. we all human beings are equal. What the hell these castes are? He is Muslim, he is Hindu, he is Christian...what the rubbish this is? He is black, he is white...he is Russian...he is German? The world should be free from all such craps. Life is very precious, so enjoy it to the fullest.
But no avail. It seems world will keep running as it should be and all such preachings will prove uneffective, because while preaching such things we forget about the nature of this world, the purpose for the creation of this world. 'We all are equal' is such a rule to follow as some students has solved 10 questions out of 10 and some only 2 or 3 out of 10, but marks for all students of the class are same. Who have solved all 10 questions, they will not bear it. And the same is happening. At least I think so, others views may differ.

 

[samarkadian]

Upender you have evolved as a poster manyfolds.

What if Nazis were right in there epoch? We were made to hate Nazis by Western Jews Control Media.

Jat Nazis[if any] are many times better than Liberal Nazis who are hell bent on uselessly proving themselves in front of hypocritic biased cattle folk media and modernised zombies.

 

[jkundu]

Greedless marriages are acceptable.

According to me :

A Jat boy marrying a girl of another caste has no right to call himself a JAT , forget about the caste status of that girl....

Similarly for a JATNI marrying another caste boy.

Exceptions are always there : Like the case of some Haryanvi lad marrying a Keralite girl due to compulsion from both ends.....either due to poverty or any other reason.

Whenever there is no GREED either from girl side [mostly greedy refugan girls(pros) ] or boy side , intercaste marriages are acceptable but should not be promoted.

To me : Jat of Haryana is different to Jat of UP or MP or Rajasthan or Punjab.

Jat of Haryana marrying a Jatni of UP(say) is equal to Intercaste Marriage in my eyes.