Kashmir kiska hai

Dear Aman;
I dont' have the resourses available to prove the point about Greek Soldiers staying back specific in Kashmir Valley. But there are historical account of many of Alexender's soldiers not going back. I assume since they came from Colder Areas on Europe; it looks logical these people moving Northward. Kashmir Valley is a beautiful valley even today; Imagine the beauty of this place several thousands year ago. This is just a logical assessment.
We did carry out a presentation in 1981; on the subject; and that is the time we collected all the information. I don't remember the source of the information at this time.
 
what u say about this regarding solution

Well according to me there is a solution to Kashmir but we need good leaders to achieve that. . From past experiences it is very evident that Kashmir problem cant be solved by talks with pakistan. First of all we need to secure our borders. Well if we look at infilteration part it is from pakistan side , from Nepal , and from bangladesh. When our idiot leaders will understand that we dont need road and rail connection to these three countries. Rail and road connection can be opened when there govt are stable and they axe their bad intention. Rails coming from Pakistan-- it is not possible to anybody that a whole train and its whole journey can be under security vigilance. Same is for buses. let India should have only Air connection with these three countries. Our political leaders have started these so called Sevas for the people and now it will be hard for new leaders( If some good leaders stand up in our political scene) to stop these as their will be protests. We have been making mistakes and future generations will suffer.

Secondly to erase terrorism in kashmir ( In my view No terrorrism is possible with out local support , even some innocent gets killed they start blaming army , these bloody human right thing-- it is very imperative gehu ke saath gun to pista hii hai ) we first to look in to the matter that no new terrorist is born , for that we must ( Indian govt ) take intiative so that whole young mind of kashmir is diverted to sports and studies. this can be done easily by constructing stadiums and promoting sports and good schools there and on the other hand side by side with the help of Intelligence and army eradicate those people who corrupt young minds with these corrupt ideas of jihad. Aise maulviyo ka to pata bhi nahi chalna chahye kii kahan gaye,
Ab jo bach jayenge unka niptara army Kuch mahino mein hii kar denge
 
Ravi & Others
Pakistan was founded on basis of Islam, Kashmir was pronounced as Jugular Vein of Pakistan because of Islam. It is Islam that ties the bond between Kashmiris and Pakistanis. Without discussing Islam one cannot discuss the issue of Kashmir. Either it is terrorism or it is not. You can't play footsies about it.
Either there are terrorists in kashmir or they are freedom fighters or mujaihdeen or some other Misnomer. Either Kashmir is India or it is not. If it is India then it must be defended and protected at all costs, there should be no discussion, no talks and no controversy of any kind. This part of land must be treated and defended just like Punjab, or any other part of this nation.
We have been afraid of taking a firm stand on this issue from last 60 years, how much longer do we have to play footsie, keep living with supine attitude, keep living in fear of islamic onslaught we are already under seige from group called Islam.
If it is any consolation, India has the unique opportunity to begin her journey to her erstwhile glory by making a decisive stand against Islam. We do this now and erase the nightmare of 1000 year slavery.


The way this thread is going now....certain battle lines are getting drawn in sand, sooner than later it will get derailed.
 
Dear Mr. Karan,
I think any one who is linking the Kashmir Issue with the Islam is playing in the hand of Pakistan; for that is exactly what they want it to be linked. Pakistan is disputing this region on the basis of Islam. If Islam be the sole criteria for any piece of land to be part of Pakistan; then every single constituency within India that has Islamic majority should be disputed territory.

There should not be any doubt in anyone’s mind that Kashmir is very much integral part of India and that is why it has been defended like Punjab or any other part of India in the past and will continue to be defended in similar manner in future as well. I don’t understand why, you are having doubt that it is not being defended like any other part of India.

Those of us who consider Islam untouchable and detrimental to Indian interests in every aspect of life; must compare likes of our ex president; Dr. Abdul Kalam; Dr. Zakir Hussain and CHM Abdul Hamid to the likes of Thakre’s; Harshad Mehta and the IAS couple that Col Malik has mentioned in his post to name a few. Most people involved in Sambha Spying Case were also not Islamic. So we have many enemies within who are not Muslims. We must understand; while Pakistan was created based on the Islamic Card; the basic fabric of modern Indian Nation is the multi racial; multi cultural democratic set up. Every house has problems; and there are solutions to each one of them. Go to any village; most of the handy people, be it Iron Smith; or Carpenter are Muslims. They are all integral part of our society and do contribute meaningfully to the society. So, let us not divide the nation on the basis of religion, cast or culture. We area a multi cultural nation and we do have good and bad people in every religion and every community.

The subject matter is Kashmir. What we should be discussing is; the historical events leading to the current situation and possible solution. The Nexalite movement has been in existence since ages; are all Nexalites are followers of Islam? The more we link Kashmir to the Islam; more we are working for those who want it to be linked to Islam and that is our adversary. Like it or not; most problems are related to economy and not religion. Religion is just being used to raise passion; for it is easy to get followers this way. It would require a lot more energy and resourcefulness to make people economically happy and then follow you.
 
Road to Kabul goes through Kashmir

I read very annoying article about relation between Kashmir & Afghanistan on ibnlive.

I agree with Col that we need to de-couple Islam from Kashmir issue. Islam is an integral part of India and we can't deny that. We can't afford to sidelined 20% of Muslim population.

Lets talk about Kashmir and Afghanistan decoupling first.

Only similarity between these to issues is that Taliban fighters and Mujaheddin are supported/nurtured/encouraged by Pakistan. I like the Quote of S M Krishna "There is nothing called good Taliban or bad Taliban." They all are militants and they need to be neutralized. We all know that Pakistan is safe sanctuary for Kashmir militants. Due to US pressure on Pakistan, They may have stopped training Taliban/Al-Quaida fighters but they are still fueling the fire in Kashmir. Two scenarios are possible in this scenario:
1. Some Kashmir militants create problem for US in Afghanistan and then US put pressure on Pakistan to stop feeding them.
2. Pakistan has good supply for hardcore Taliban fighters and they may inject them in Kashmir insurgency.

Obviously, First scenario can work in India's favor. Another critical development is Baluchistan.

Baluchistan's size is equal to 40% of Pakistan. Balochs are fighting for independence from last 60 years and in last decade Baloch movement became more aggressive due to some mistakes by Musharraf and unconfirmed news of India's involvement. Again we have two scenarios :
1. Tit for Tat: They are creating troubles in Kashmir and we'll create in Baluchistan. Stakes are high in their case and more problematic for us to provide support to the movement because lack of common borders and Iran has neutral stand on it.

2. Bring Pakistan to Negotiation Table and tell them the scenario. Pakistan don't want to loose 40% of her land for Kashmir valley.

India put very unambiguous stance in Sri Lanka by not support LTTE in last decade and we made it clear that extremism is not our state policy unlike Pakistan.
 
Dear Mr. Tevathia
We are not linking Kashmir with Islam but the terrorism that is spawned in Kashmir with Islam and the blast in Pune prove that.
 
karan said:
Dear Mr. Tevathia
We are not linking Kashmir with Islam but the terrorism that is spawned in Kashmir with Islam and the blast in Pune prove that.
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Dear Mr. Karan,
The Pune Blast; is reported to be work of LeT a Pakistan based terrorist organization. Do the entire Islamic community around the world support LeT? State sponsored terrorism is the policy many nations have adopted to project themselves. Pakistan is one such state. Kashmir is more of a geographical and legal issue rather than the Islamic issue. Since the Subject of the topic is "Kashmir" I would concentrate on that.
Pune blast like any other blasts that have taken place is also once again failure of our intelligence agencies. With so many lives lost due to poor intelligence over the years, what we as a nation done about it? Is there is political statement by PM or any one else? How many heads have rolled in the intelligence departments? There are complex issues. Just blaming Islam for all and every failures of ours is not going to solve our problems. We need to address each and every problem in more pragmatic manner rather than just blaming Islam. And that is the point I want to drive home.
 
col sir,

again and again, we get trapped in the same vicious circle and same rhetoric that revolves around islam and only islam... the religion of peace.

sir, being an army person, you must be having more information than me or for that matter any other member on this portal. tell me...

1. what we as a nation or for that matter, the entire world did when half a million kashmiri pandits were ethnically cleansed from the kashmir valley... this was no intelligence failure, or was it?
2. what sort of political statements or action(s) were taken?
3. how many heads rolled of... in army/police or political circles?
4. who's failure was this?

the answer is simple... islam.

no islam no terror !
know islam, know terror !

p.s.: must watch >>> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=842219646390515565&q=kashmiri+pandit#

raj2rif said:
Pune blast like any other blasts that have taken place is also once again failure of our intelligence agencies. With so many lives lost due to poor intelligence over the years, what we as a nation done about it? Is there is political statement by PM or any one else? How many heads have rolled in the intelligence departments? There are complex issues. Just blaming Islam for all and every failures of ours is not going to solve our problems. We need to address each and every problem in more pragmatic manner rather than just blaming Islam. And that is the point I want to drive home.
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No, there is no question of Islam bashing. However, many have started to question the aims of ‘Wahabi Islam’ and the inability of the Muslim world to question the radicalized fringes. Given below is an excerpt from an interview by Niall Ferguson. He is the Laurence A. Tisch Professor of History at Harvard University. He was on Walk the Talk with Mr Shekhar Gupta.

“All over the Muslim world, there is a contest between a radicalised minority, whose politics of grievance is so extreme that they are prepared to blow themselves up in pursuit of an Islamic utopia, and a majority of Muslims who naturally are attracted to modernity and see their neighbours in India, for example, prospering but don’t quite know how to legitimse that modernity. Today Muslim leaders feel they have to defer to radical Islamists and it’s that deference which one also sees in the Arabian world that’s so depressing.

And when you think of some things that are done in the name of Islam, a straightforward condemnation whether from the Saudis or the leaders in Pakistan would make at least some difference. So at the heart of the Islamic world, there is a great double standard now.

One thing that is not a root cause is poverty, because many of the people who are attracted to radical Islam are actually quite well off. The 9/11 bombers were not poor people. The man who tried to blow up an airline wasn’t poor. Throughout history, and here I’ll put my historian’s hat back on, the revolutionaries have very seldom been very poor. The revolutionaries have been disillusioned, disaffected members of the elite, who, for whatever reason, have turned against the conventional established wisdom of their fathers’ generation and embraced a very radical, violent doctrine of their own. So that’s the Islamic world’s problem. It has the equivalent of the Leninists today. Radicals used to be Marxists. You know Indians are saying goodbye to the generation of communist leaders who once hoped that they could take India down disastrous roads. Today the threat to freedom does not come from the followers of Marx and Lenin. It comes from the radical believers in the Quran. So instead of Das Kapital in the communist manifesto, we have radicals who believe that Quran is the basis for utopia. And I think there is a real parallel there. I am always struck when I read Osama bin Laden’s proclamations, periodically issued from his caves, by the almost Marxist tones. He has even made a pitch for an Islamic finance as a solution to the financial crisis. So although at times they seem very different, I think radical Islamists have a lot in common with the radical Leftists of the 20th century”.

Best regards,

JS Malik
 
Dear Mr. Brahm Tewatia,

The insurgancy started in Kashmir in 1989. There was no Islamic Government in Kashmir or India at that time. Our so called Hero Mr. Vishwanath Pratap Singh was the PM and Mr. Mufti Md. Syed was his home minister. All the Kashmiri Pandit's were living very much in Kashmir at that time. It is not that one fine day some terrorists came and drived all the Pandits away from the Valley. I had already written about the vote mathematics of the Kashmir. The things must be going on before the final brust came out. Our intelligence agencies obviously sleeping allow that thing to go un-noticed till it reached its peak/climex. I had heard that some of the BSF posts in valley during that time allowed a person with AK 47 by taking bribe of Rs 1000/- each. How much of this is true, I don't know. But there were some passes in mountains those were known as infiltrators' highway. When these new people arrived in villages or towns; I am sure people must have noticed it. We do have whole lot of intelligence units working in the area who are more often than not are working to be one up on another intelligence agency. I remember while in Ganganagar, there were 10-11 intelligence agencies operating. My question is, why do we have those many in one country. Why not only one that is efficient and works for the nation rather than to counter the political rivals. The problem is not with the Islam; it the system that we have in place. If what I have written about inflow of AK-47; is true, then it amounts to "Rakshak ban gaya Bhakshak", if you see most of our political leaders working the way they address the issues; the same thing comes to light. The political party's interests become supreme; and the national interest becomes subservient. So, there is a lot more than Islam to these terrorist activities. Travel from Muzaffurnagar to Saharanpur and you will pass through a place called Devband. There are Islamic schools in that town, it does not even look like part of India. Did this come about in one day? Successive government both at State level as well as Center have protected it and even might have given aid to it. I had said that people do get swayed in the name of religion easily; and that is what politicians and radicals are exploiting. If we start speaking the same language, then we are just helping them.
 
raj2rif said:
So, there is a lot more than Islam to these terrorist activities. Travel from Muzaffurnagar to Saharanpur and you will pass through a place called Devband. There are Islamic schools in that town, it does not even look like part of India. Did this come about in one day? Successive government both at State level as well as Center have protected it and even might have given aid to it. I had said that people do get swayed in the name of religion easily; and that is what politicians and radicals are exploiting. If we start speaking the same language, then we are just helping them.
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sunillathwal said:
As India's influence (economy) grow in world-affairs... hardly anyone (read other countries) will talk about "Kashmir issue" and hopefully soon it will be as good as dead!! Look no one talks about separatists in Canada, UK, Russia, Spain or China !!
For instance, Tibet issue is almost dead in world's view.
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col sir,

that is why, in my previous post, i called it a vicious circle. if not islam then our spineless politicians. the rhetoric will go round and round. as pointed out by ravi ji, lets not digress from the topic, cos this thread has now moved towards 'islam bashing'... IMHO it should be closed now.

kashmir will always remain an issue for indian and pak politicians... "kashmiri pandits" are almost as good as forgotten... the demographics have changed and will never be restored. "kashmiri pandits" are history now... painted and written in blood in indian historical archives.

ravichaudhary said:
Karan and others

This thread is " kashmir Kiska Hai" not Islam bashing.

I am not trying to be politically correct

I do not see how "Islam bashing" adds value to topic, or how you see the solution.

Humble request to all, please control your emotions.


Ravi Chaudhary
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I agree with Col. Tevathia. Mixing Kashmir and Islam is playing into Pakistan's hands. This has been Pakistan's core argument that Kashmir is a Muslim majority state and hence should be a part of Pakistan. We think "Kashmir Hamara hai" as we have always seen it as a part of India. Go back to 1947 and analyse the situation without benefit of hindsight. For all the Nehru bashing here, not many people appreciate that he had a key role in India claiming Kashmir. I agree that his military strategy during the Pathan invasion in 1948 and then in Indo-China war was flawed. But before the Pathan invasion, he was the one who had got fixated on Kashmir becoming a part of India, because of his own Kashmiri background. He used his influence on both the Mountbattens to not let Kashmir go to Pakistan which many at that time thought was the foregone conclusion, given the Hindu-Muslim formula of partition. Hari Singh, the Raja, had his own plans of independence and had one leg in each camp. He signed the accession treaty to India only when the Pathans invaded his state.

Then look at the comparables- Junagadh and Hyderabad. In both places, the Nawabs declared their desire to join Pakistan- and note that they were given the option under the partition formula. But Indian govt. didn't accept it as these states were Hindu majority. In fact, it is believed that Jinnah actively encouraged these Nawabs, despite knowing that there was no chance that these states were going to become a part of Pakistan, because he wanted to use these for strengthening Pakistan's claim on Kashmir. Even a plebiscite was held in Junagadh which voted overwhelmingly for India. Given all these facts, how tenable was India's claim on Kashmir in 1947? I'd consider it a huge success that India managed to get the "core Kashmir" in 1947 against these odds. And I'd attribute atleast some of the success to Nehru's obsession with Kashmir and his influence with the Mountbattens. Of course, he committed a blunder soon after by agreeing to a ceasefire before getting hold of full Kashmir and then subsequently when he was found off-guard voicing Hindi-Chini bhai bhai even as the Chinese were busy planning accession of Aksai Chin.

Kashmir is now an integral part of India and a core to our nationhood. We gain no strategic benefit by bringing religion into the picture- when we do that, we just accept Pakistan's position. Ofcourse, there is a problem with radical Islam and with hardliners who practise it. And of course, no one can condone the genocide of Kashmiri Pandits. But one must realize that when sh*t hits the roof anywhere, it is the minorities who bear the axe. It is terrible and unjustifiable, but that is how it is. It happened with Hindus in Punjab and with Sikhs in Delhi. Should we have attributed the problem to Sikhism in 1984? India would always have to deal with the question of identity. Islam is only one of those questions. There are many others- Bodos, Nagas, Mizos, etc. in the NE and the everpresent caste/language question. It is upto us whether we are inclusive or exclusive in our thought. But the idea of India is based on being inclusive.
 
Kashmir should be renamed Cashmore .... always wanting more money.
All the Biharis in Bombay should go there, they might have better luck with terrorists compared to MNS and gundas in Bihar . Its like what China did with Tibet - they sent Han Chinese to Tibet to alter the demographics.
Soon enough nobody would want Kashmir.
 
इतिहास साक्षी है कि हमारे शत्रु-प्रेमी प्रधानमंत्री भारत को बहुत महंगे पड़े है कश्मीर समस्या जो भारत के कलेजे का घाव बन गया है पाक प्रेम का ही दुष्परिणाम है, नहीं तो क्यों महाराजा हरिसिंह के कश्मीर को भारत में मिलाने के प्रस्ताव को लंगड़ा बना डाला गया? क्यों कश्मीर के भारत में विलय के मार्ग में रुकावटें डाली गई? क्यों कश्मीर की पुण्यभूमि को इस प्रकार म्लेच्छों द्वारा पदाक्रांत करने दिया गया? क्यों कश्मीर में तब लाखों हिंदुओं को पाकिस्तानियों द्वारा मारे जाने के लिए असहाय छोड़ दिया? क्यों भारत की विजयी सेना को पाक विजिट क्षेत्रों को पुनः जीत कर भारत में मिला लेने से रोक लिया गया? क्यों...क्यों....क्यों......कितने क्यों?
 
rajpaldular said:
इतिहास साक्षी है कि हमारे शत्रु-प्रेमी प्रधानमंत्री भारत को बहुत महंगे पड़े है कश्मीर समस्या जो भारत के कलेजे का घाव बन गया है पाक प्रेम का ही दुष्परिणाम है, नहीं तो क्यों महाराजा हरिसिंह के कश्मीर को भारत में मिलाने के प्रस्ताव को लंगड़ा बना डाला गया? क्यों कश्मीर के भारत में विलय के मार्ग में रुकावटें डाली गई? क्यों कश्मीर की पुण्यभूमि को इस प्रकार म्लेच्छों द्वारा पदाक्रांत करने दिया गया? क्यों कश्मीर में तब लाखों हिंदुओं को पाकिस्तानियों द्वारा मारे जाने के लिए असहाय छोड़ दिया? क्यों भारत की विजयी सेना को पाक विजिट क्षेत्रों को पुनः जीत कर भारत में मिला लेने से रोक लिया गया? क्यों...क्यों....क्यों......कितने क्यों?
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यु तो नहरू का कर्या धरा स | जिहने जिन्दगी में कदे कोए ढंग का काम कर्या-ए कोणी | देश का सत्यानाश करण के सिवाय |आज भी उस्से का खून देश का खून बहान लाग्र्या स | उस दिन इन्द्रा की गेल उह के खानदान के बाकी सारे भी .........................................
 
Yes Riya u r right that Kashmir is our's ,no doubt in that but unfortunately due to corrupt politicians like Nehru & other leaders of congress we have lost a big portion of kashmir to Pakistan & China .Kashmir is our integral as per my opinion .

There are so many states in India which are having more than 30 % of muslim poppulation .Only on the basis of islam we can't give our land to Pakisthan ..................

Our army should try the best to finsh the terrorism from every part of the country & they are doing best as well ,we all know that .The only requirement is to bring some good politicians like Narendra Modi .I am sure if BJP came to power & he became the PM ,then he will definately finish the terrorism in Kashimr .
 
kASHMIR BELONGS TO THOSE WHO ARE STAYING IN KASHMIR, (kashmiris & Indian Army), Many members specially col virender, col malik, mr Ravi, mr Karan, mr Yudhvirmr,mr Dhull have given lot of valuable inputs and suggestions, I would like to add one odd point. My sources of info are my Battalian 2Guards ( 1st Gernediers), our old officers faught in 1948 in kashmir and Shekhabdulla, also I interacted with many kashmiris during my two tenueres in kashmir. Yes, it is fact that Hari singh was keen to be independent, but kabailies and pak troops attack kashmir and started capturing area at speed without any opposition than Hari singh requested Indian Govt for help, Nahru agreed to send some troops but Patel insisted for decision of joining India before sending army, it happened, than 1ST SIKH from Nefajgarh & 1ST GERNEDIERS from Amritsar were air lifted and droped sikhs at srinagar and gernedier near Baramula, Troops didnot have required info, area maps, photos, no woollen, no rquired weapon. My unit was given area to be cleared from Baramula to Guirej upto niru gobipass, The unit was finding very difficult to move forward in abscence of maps/info of area/guide but some how reached to Sohpur home town of Sh Shekh Abdulla, you will surprise to know that shekh sahab of his own send his three sons elder to Farukh, with the unit as guides, unfortunately, two of his sons died during the operation with the unit in guirej area. Anyhow, both the units completed their tasks and the valley was liberated. But the area of POK, WAS ALREADY IN THEIR HANDS, neither nehru nor Hari singh bothered and took any action and nehru approached un, though, as per un resolution pak was to withdraw its troops followed by India but it didnot happen and pak was able to retain the pok. The delayed decision of Hari singh and in action of nehru costed pok. A real patriot shekh was put in jail, the old rivelary of nehru and shekh, incapability of nehru to handle the situation and kind hand of gandhi on nehru, spoiled the situation further, Some brothers have blamed cabnet, for not going against nehru, but dear, Gandhi never allowed any leader to go againsr nehru, coming back to kashmir, Till 1980, during my two tenueres, I interacted with many kashmiries, frankly speaking, I found muslims batter than pandits in most matters, I feel, it was wrong policy and faulty handling of kashmir by all the Govts, brought the present situation. Pandits are more responsible for their present state.


Keeping all aspects in view, no early solution is visible, but I agree that offensive defence, firm handling and international support can help to solve the problem
 
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I interacted with many kashmiries, frankly speaking, I found muslims batter than pandits in most matters, I feel, it was wrong policy and faulty handling of kashmir by all the Govts, brought the present situation. Pandits are more responsible for their present state.







fatah sir ,100% perfect , frank and bold statement.
 
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