I am not able to get how the government is functioning. The top secret information of the government is leaked to press. Who is responsible for it? Is the defence minister just a puppet in the cabinet? Don't you think that the government should resign now and seek a fresh mandate???????
Army toothless: General VK Singh drops letter bomb on government
- Thread starter ygulia
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The present gang of looteras, criminals, irresponsible, inefficient, shameless, totaly corrupt and selffish politicians are destroying the nation,our unity, our wealth,our strength,our culture, our minerals,agricalture, our internal/external security, our peace, our relations with other nations, our legislative/executive/judicial system, our media, etc with the authority ofGovt. I think,there is no Govt or a weakest/poorest, most corrupt, unaccountable, shameless, irresponsible and incapable Govt so far india had. God only knows what will happen to our nation and public.
हवाई सुरक्षा का 97 फीसदी सामान बेकार: सेनाध्यक्ष
बुधवार, 28 मार्च, 2012 को 12:32 IST तक के समाचार
एंटनी ने पत्र की बात स्वीकारी ने इसकी तफ्शील देने से इंकार किया.
रक्षामंत्री एके एंटनी ने बुधवार को राज्यसभा में स्वीकार किया कि सेनाध्यक्ष वीके सिंह ने प्रधानमंत्री को एक चिट्ठी लिखी थी लेकिन उन्होंने चिट्ठी की ब्यौरा देने से इंकार कर दिया है.
भारतीय मीडिया में बुधवार को छपी ख़बरों के अनुसार सेनाध्यक्ष वीके सिंह ने प्रधानमंत्री को लिखी कथित चिट्ठी में भारतीय सेना के पास हथियारों और बारूद की कमी की जिक्र किया है.
मीडिया को लीक हुआ यह पत्र इस साल 12 मार्च को सेनाध्यक्ष की ओर से प्रधानमंत्री को लिखा गया जिसमें कहा गया है कि प्रधानमंत्री, 'सेना को मुस्तैद बनाने के लिए ज़रूरी आदेश जारी करें.'
इस पत्र में सेनाध्यक्ष ने लिखा है कि भारत में सैन्य हथियारों, हवाई सुरक्षा और पैदल सेना की हालत ‘चिंताजनक’ है.
सेनाध्यक्ष ने यहां तक लिखा कि, ''दुश्मन सेना के टैंकों से लड़ने के लिए सेना के पास ज़रूरी युद्ध सामग्री तक नहीं है और हवाई सुरक्षा का 97 फीसदी साजो-सामान बेकार हो चुका है.''
रक्षामंत्री ने सदन और देश को भरोसा दिलाया कि भारतीय सेना की तैयारियां मज़बूत रही हैं और आगे भी रहेंगी.
राज्यसभा में सरकार का पक्ष रखते हुए रक्षामंत्री एके एंटनी ने कहा, "ऐसे पत्र को सार्वजनिक नहीं किया जा सकता. गोपनीय पत्राचार को प्रकाशित करना हमारे सुरक्षा हितों को नहीं साध सकता. ये राष्ट्र हित में नहीं होगा. हमारी सैन्य तैयारियां मज़बूत हैं और मैं इस सदन और देश को बताना चाहता हूं कि ये मज़बूत रहेंगी. हम अपनी सेनाओं को बेहतरीन साज़ो-सामान मुहैया करवाते हैं. सरकार भारत की रक्षा के लिए हमेशा तत्पर है."
एके एंटनी ने कहा कि भारतीय सेना को दुनिया की बेहतरीन सेना बनाने के लिए सरकार उच्चस्तरीय प्रशिक्षण, उपकरण और हथियार मुहैया करवाती है.
सदन में विपक्ष के नेता अरुण जेटली ने कथित चिट्ठी में जाहिर की गई कमियों पर चिंता जाहिर की.
अरुण जेटली ने कहा, "इस चिट्ठी को सार्वजनिक बहस का मुद्दा नहीं बनाया जाना चाहिए. लेकिन मीडिया में हथियारों की खरीद के बारे चिंताजनक खबरें आ रही हैं. ये सुनिश्चित किया जाना चाहिए कि इसमें कोई गड़बड़ी ना हो. दूसरी चिंता हमारी रक्षा तैयारियों के बारे में है. मीडिया में रक्षा तैयारियों के बारे में आ रही ख़बरें चिंताजनक हैं."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/india/2012/03/120328_general_letter_rs_psa.shtml
बुधवार, 28 मार्च, 2012 को 12:32 IST तक के समाचार
रक्षामंत्री एके एंटनी ने बुधवार को राज्यसभा में स्वीकार किया कि सेनाध्यक्ष वीके सिंह ने प्रधानमंत्री को एक चिट्ठी लिखी थी लेकिन उन्होंने चिट्ठी की ब्यौरा देने से इंकार कर दिया है.
भारतीय मीडिया में बुधवार को छपी ख़बरों के अनुसार सेनाध्यक्ष वीके सिंह ने प्रधानमंत्री को लिखी कथित चिट्ठी में भारतीय सेना के पास हथियारों और बारूद की कमी की जिक्र किया है.
मीडिया को लीक हुआ यह पत्र इस साल 12 मार्च को सेनाध्यक्ष की ओर से प्रधानमंत्री को लिखा गया जिसमें कहा गया है कि प्रधानमंत्री, 'सेना को मुस्तैद बनाने के लिए ज़रूरी आदेश जारी करें.'
इस पत्र में सेनाध्यक्ष ने लिखा है कि भारत में सैन्य हथियारों, हवाई सुरक्षा और पैदल सेना की हालत ‘चिंताजनक’ है.
"गोपनीय पत्राचार को प्रकाशित करना हमारे सुरक्षा हितों को नहीं साध सकता. ये राष्ट्र हित में नहीं होगा. हमारी सैन्य तैयारियों मज़बूत हैं और मैं इस सदन और देश को बताना चाहता हूं कि ये मज़बूत ही रहेंगी. हम अपनी सेनाओं को बेहतरीन साज़ो-सामान मुहैया करवाते हैं. सरकार भारत की रक्षा के लिए हमेशा तत्पर है."
एके एंटनी, रक्षामंत्री
सेनाध्यक्ष ने यहां तक लिखा कि, ''दुश्मन सेना के टैंकों से लड़ने के लिए सेना के पास ज़रूरी युद्ध सामग्री तक नहीं है और हवाई सुरक्षा का 97 फीसदी साजो-सामान बेकार हो चुका है.''
रक्षामंत्री ने सदन और देश को भरोसा दिलाया कि भारतीय सेना की तैयारियां मज़बूत रही हैं और आगे भी रहेंगी.
राज्यसभा में सरकार का पक्ष रखते हुए रक्षामंत्री एके एंटनी ने कहा, "ऐसे पत्र को सार्वजनिक नहीं किया जा सकता. गोपनीय पत्राचार को प्रकाशित करना हमारे सुरक्षा हितों को नहीं साध सकता. ये राष्ट्र हित में नहीं होगा. हमारी सैन्य तैयारियां मज़बूत हैं और मैं इस सदन और देश को बताना चाहता हूं कि ये मज़बूत रहेंगी. हम अपनी सेनाओं को बेहतरीन साज़ो-सामान मुहैया करवाते हैं. सरकार भारत की रक्षा के लिए हमेशा तत्पर है."
एके एंटनी ने कहा कि भारतीय सेना को दुनिया की बेहतरीन सेना बनाने के लिए सरकार उच्चस्तरीय प्रशिक्षण, उपकरण और हथियार मुहैया करवाती है.
सदन में विपक्ष के नेता अरुण जेटली ने कथित चिट्ठी में जाहिर की गई कमियों पर चिंता जाहिर की.
अरुण जेटली ने कहा, "इस चिट्ठी को सार्वजनिक बहस का मुद्दा नहीं बनाया जाना चाहिए. लेकिन मीडिया में हथियारों की खरीद के बारे चिंताजनक खबरें आ रही हैं. ये सुनिश्चित किया जाना चाहिए कि इसमें कोई गड़बड़ी ना हो. दूसरी चिंता हमारी रक्षा तैयारियों के बारे में है. मीडिया में रक्षा तैयारियों के बारे में आ रही ख़बरें चिंताजनक हैं."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/india/2012/03/120328_general_letter_rs_psa.shtml
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anilsangwan
Active member
जेनरल सिंह साब भी सारे के सारे ढीम (पत्थर) फेकण लाग रे सें पेड़ पे ... शायद कोए सा लाग जा निशाने पे.....आर सेब आन पड़े धरती पे ...
पर या बेशरमा की सरकार स..... उघाडा कर दयोगे तो भी कुर्सी ने नहीं छोड़ेंगे .... इनका इलाज तो evm का बटन स .... करड़ा दाब दियो इबके......
पर या बेशरमा की सरकार स..... उघाडा कर दयोगे तो भी कुर्सी ने नहीं छोड़ेंगे .... इनका इलाज तो evm का बटन स .... करड़ा दाब दियो इबके......
For Anil: I tired to send you PM but could not do so. Are you permanently in AUSTRALIA? if yes PM me.
People are not coming forward to vent their views? I think India is still a democratic country and people have fundamental right of freedom of speech and expression.
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rohittewatia
New member
I was watching the debate n Congress spokesperson M.Tiwari seemed to cling by the same stupid logic that the Gen. didn't file a written complaint. Then, why did the Def. minister ordered a CBI enquiry now. A written complaint has not been filed even now. Though, The Gen. did the right thing and went as per the protocol, informing his Superior. The way he went public now, he could have done it earlier. So, it seems to be an error committed on both sides. When good men fail to act, it cannot be counted as one of their virtues and they have to bear responsibility for their inaction. Which in such cases can turn out to be a Himalayan blunder.
It is a matter of grave concern that we have been paying 80 lakhs for a truck not worth more than 18 lakhs & that too for more than 20 years. One IIT Guy holds the controlling stakes in the Manufacturing concern for Tatra. This Tatra deal was said to be finalised during the regime of Rajiv Gandhi. It's funny that 20 years back, the Tatra truck had around 20% components made in india. Nowadays, it is said to be more than 70-80% including the Engine. So, for a truck almost manufactured in India, we still have to import it. And, that too at an exorbitant price.
Gen. when he took charge, he promised to modernise the Indian Army. He promised to transform the Army from a Threat based force to a Capability based force. Our national strategy has always been war avoidance. One excerpt from The Week"Operation Parakram, in 2001, had exposed that the Indian Army's strike corps took nearly 22 days to reach their border positions. Several redeployment and operational doctrines, validated during the tenures of Vij, J.J. Singh and Kapoor, had reduced this to 14 days. It was expected that Singh would reduce this further, especially since it was found that Pakistan could mobilise its strike corps within just 90 hours. But even the recent exercise, christened Sudarshan Shakti, proved that the Army needed to build a lot more infrastructure to further reduce mobilisation time."
The Gen. seems to have jeopardised the ongoing process of acquisition on account of scrutinising the deals. Forget the support arms, which have always been neglected, even the fighting arms—artillery, armour and infantry—have been neglected badly. More than 2/3 of the T-72 tanks we own lack the night fighting capability. We haven't purchased any guns after the Bofors in 1980's. The reason everybody knows too. During his short tenure, Gen. was not able to deliver what he promised taking charge of the Second largest army in the world. He did tried a lot but his efforts seems to have gone in vain.
It is a matter of grave concern that we have been paying 80 lakhs for a truck not worth more than 18 lakhs & that too for more than 20 years. One IIT Guy holds the controlling stakes in the Manufacturing concern for Tatra. This Tatra deal was said to be finalised during the regime of Rajiv Gandhi. It's funny that 20 years back, the Tatra truck had around 20% components made in india. Nowadays, it is said to be more than 70-80% including the Engine. So, for a truck almost manufactured in India, we still have to import it. And, that too at an exorbitant price.
Gen. when he took charge, he promised to modernise the Indian Army. He promised to transform the Army from a Threat based force to a Capability based force. Our national strategy has always been war avoidance. One excerpt from The Week"Operation Parakram, in 2001, had exposed that the Indian Army's strike corps took nearly 22 days to reach their border positions. Several redeployment and operational doctrines, validated during the tenures of Vij, J.J. Singh and Kapoor, had reduced this to 14 days. It was expected that Singh would reduce this further, especially since it was found that Pakistan could mobilise its strike corps within just 90 hours. But even the recent exercise, christened Sudarshan Shakti, proved that the Army needed to build a lot more infrastructure to further reduce mobilisation time."
The Gen. seems to have jeopardised the ongoing process of acquisition on account of scrutinising the deals. Forget the support arms, which have always been neglected, even the fighting arms—artillery, armour and infantry—have been neglected badly. More than 2/3 of the T-72 tanks we own lack the night fighting capability. We haven't purchased any guns after the Bofors in 1980's. The reason everybody knows too. During his short tenure, Gen. was not able to deliver what he promised taking charge of the Second largest army in the world. He did tried a lot but his efforts seems to have gone in vain.
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Ghaat koya sai bhi na sai...Na Gormant arr na VK Singh.. Jai VK singh ki job aage badh jaati to ke ye baat bolai arr...Jadd gormant nai nahi suni tai ibb badla lenn khatir ye baat batani padd ri sai... Jadd ya rishwat denn ki baat aayi tai us tame kyu na bolya... Sidhi si baat sai,, Is hamam mai saare chorr sain..
anilsangwan
Active member
Yes bro, I sent you a PM.
I think what you said is right but UPA doesnt feel so. That is why Facebook, Google, Twitter etc are being scanned by Kapil Sibbal to appease Sonia Mummy.
इन कान्ग्रेस्सियाँ की कुतिया भी पिल्ले जाम दे स तो भी कांग्रेसी इस में सोनिया माता का कुशल मार्गदर्शन बतावें सें... जणू तो खुरिये खींचे थे सोनिया ने....
I think what you said is right but UPA doesnt feel so. That is why Facebook, Google, Twitter etc are being scanned by Kapil Sibbal to appease Sonia Mummy.
इन कान्ग्रेस्सियाँ की कुतिया भी पिल्ले जाम दे स तो भी कांग्रेसी इस में सोनिया माता का कुशल मार्गदर्शन बतावें सें... जणू तो खुरिये खींचे थे सोनिया ने....
prashantacmet
New member
ek jaat bhi gaseet liya eibb iss general ne..Lt general dalbeer singh suhag!...byara ni yu aapni frustration kaahd rya hai ya sach main imandar sai aapne kaam ke liye..baaki neeyat to iss general ki theek kona lagti majhe..lanka main saare 52 gazz ke sai
ravinderjeet
New member
देश विदेशिओं का गुलाम हो चुका हे | सारे निर्णय सोनिया ,एंथोनी ,अहमद पटेल लेत हें , ये कोण हैं इनके नाम से ही पता चल जाता हे | अब जनरल को टर्मिनेट या रिटायरमेंट तक छुट्टी पर भेजने का प्लान चल रहा ह जो आज शाम तक हो सकता हे | ये ही समय हे जनरल के लिए की सभी सांसदों को गिरफ्तार कर के संसद को जेल में तब्दील कर दो | देश अगले हजार साल इनका गुणगान करेगा |
dahiyavijay7
New member
The accusation made on the General is wrong. How he could jeopardise the acquisition process, when civilians in the defence ministry seal the deals? Further, what is the point in purchasing third class arms at 10 times price. The defence minister has made mockery of things and even ridiculed the status of Army in the country. Only those people go to the army, which have flair for the country and have the courage to die for the country. The civilian bureaucrats in the defence ministry or home ministry do nothing for the country except indulging into the corruption.
dahiyavijay7
New member
अगर सरकार की नियत ठीक होती तो कुछ कहने की जरुरत ही नहीं पड़ती general को, जब लगा की सरकार बेहद भ्रष्ट है और किसी भी हद को पार कर सकती है तो ऐसा करना जायज था ! अगर general ने अपनी व्यक्तिगत समस्याओं को दूर नहीं करने के चलते भी ये कदम उठाया है तो भी ये कदम प्रशंसनीय है| इस भ्रष्ट सरकार तो घेरना जरुरी है , general के कदम से कांग्रेस के किरकिरी हुई है | हम भी जब हे रोते चिल्लाते है जब हमें समस्या होती है | जिन लोगों के स्वार्थ पूर्ति कांग्रेस ने की है वो तो सोनिया का ही गुणगान कर रहे हैं, चाहे वो देश को बेच दे, दुनिया भर के जाटों ने भी कांग्रेस को वोट दी है जो कांग्रेस आज देश में आतंकवाद नक्सलवाद भ्रटाचार और भुकमरी को बढ़ावा दी रही है |
Please write concerning topic only. Thanks for cooperation.
I do not think govt. will send the General on long leave. General VK Singh has called the leak an act of 'high treason'. I think govt. is just issuing statement to counter the act of accuasation of corruption issue unfolded by the General. My guess is that General will get frustrated and seek premature retirement.
Defence purchases are done by a committee constituted specifically for the purpose. General and Defence Minister can over rule committe but can not make recommendations for purchase if objected by committee.
R
rameshlakra
Guest
BTW, it has become bombshell because the General has been in news for his DOB, otherwise it has been under discussion in most of the seminars, throug representation to MoD and during various Cabinet Committees on Security. It is a open secret and has been highlighted in national dailies for some time now. May be it had not been quantified in the manner the Gen VK Singh has done. Otherwise MoD including secretary and Minister are fully aware of the delay in the procurement processes. We as a country and govt in specific has become too thick skinned that only a bomb can make us hear.
Now, we have corruption and delay in procurement on the one hand and clean, state of art, timely and speedy procurement on the other. Adding layer of beaurocracy will only add to the former and not later as we are trying to do by enacting Public Procurement Act.
Besides, enacting Jan Lokpal or speedy trials of not only corruption cases but all cases by having more judges and Police, what is essetially required for Armed Forces is implementation of Kargil Review Committee (http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/India/KargilRCA.html).
An extract on National Defence management is posted here for reference (National Security Management and Apex Decision-Making
India is perhaps the only major democracy where the Armed Forces Headquarters are outside the apex governmental structure. The Chiefs of Staff have assumed the role of operational commanders of their respective forces rather than that of Chiefs of Staff to the Prime Minister and Defence Minister. They simultaneously discharge the roles of operational commanders and national security planners/managers, especially in relation to future equipment and force postures. Most of their time, is, however, devoted to the operational role, as is bound to happen. This has led to a number of negative results. Future-oriented long term planning suffers. Army Headquarters has developed a command rather than a staff culture. Higher decisions on equipment, force levels and strategy are not collegiate but command-oriented. The Prime Minister and Defence Minister do not have the benefit of the views and expertise of the Army Commanders and their equivalents in the Navy and Air Force so that higher level defence management decisions are more consensual and broadbased. The present obsolete system has perpetuated the continuation of the culture of the British Imperial theatre system of an India Command whereas what is required is a National Defence Headquarters. Most opposition to change comes from inadequate knowledge of the national security decision-making process elsewhere in the world and a reluctance to change the status quo and move away from considerations of parochial interest. The status quo is often mistakenly defended as embodying civilian ascendancy over the armed forces, which is not a real issue. In fact, locating the Services' Headquarters in the Government will further enhance civilian supremacy.
Structural reforms could bring about a much closer and more constructive interaction between the Civil Government and the Services. The Committee is of the view that the present obsolete system, bequeathed to India by Lord Ismay, merits re-examination. An effective and appropriate national security planning and decision-making structure for India in the nuclear age is overdue, taking account of the revolution in military affairs and threats of proxy war and terrorism and the imperative of modernising the Armed Forces. An objective assessment of the last 52 years will show that the country is lucky to have scraped through various national security threats without too much damage, except in 1962. The country can no longer afford such ad hoc functioning. The Committee therefore recommends that the entire gamut of national security management and apex decision-making and the structure and interface between the Ministry of Defence and the Armed Forces Headquarters be comprehensively studied and reorganised.
)
The two most imporatant recomendations were 1) creation of Intergrated Headquarters by crosss posting officers of civil and defence in each other billets - though on paper name has been changed from AHQ, NHQ or AFHQ to IHQ (Army) etc, but on ground no cross posting has led to no change in functioning delaying important decisions.
2) Another imp rec was creation of CDS post as that would have given Armed Forces a say in defence and strategic issues decision making - that has remained a dream to Nationalist
A lot will be solved if these two are implemented.
Now, we have corruption and delay in procurement on the one hand and clean, state of art, timely and speedy procurement on the other. Adding layer of beaurocracy will only add to the former and not later as we are trying to do by enacting Public Procurement Act.
Besides, enacting Jan Lokpal or speedy trials of not only corruption cases but all cases by having more judges and Police, what is essetially required for Armed Forces is implementation of Kargil Review Committee (http://nuclearweaponarchive.org/India/KargilRCA.html).
An extract on National Defence management is posted here for reference (National Security Management and Apex Decision-Making
India is perhaps the only major democracy where the Armed Forces Headquarters are outside the apex governmental structure. The Chiefs of Staff have assumed the role of operational commanders of their respective forces rather than that of Chiefs of Staff to the Prime Minister and Defence Minister. They simultaneously discharge the roles of operational commanders and national security planners/managers, especially in relation to future equipment and force postures. Most of their time, is, however, devoted to the operational role, as is bound to happen. This has led to a number of negative results. Future-oriented long term planning suffers. Army Headquarters has developed a command rather than a staff culture. Higher decisions on equipment, force levels and strategy are not collegiate but command-oriented. The Prime Minister and Defence Minister do not have the benefit of the views and expertise of the Army Commanders and their equivalents in the Navy and Air Force so that higher level defence management decisions are more consensual and broadbased. The present obsolete system has perpetuated the continuation of the culture of the British Imperial theatre system of an India Command whereas what is required is a National Defence Headquarters. Most opposition to change comes from inadequate knowledge of the national security decision-making process elsewhere in the world and a reluctance to change the status quo and move away from considerations of parochial interest. The status quo is often mistakenly defended as embodying civilian ascendancy over the armed forces, which is not a real issue. In fact, locating the Services' Headquarters in the Government will further enhance civilian supremacy.
Structural reforms could bring about a much closer and more constructive interaction between the Civil Government and the Services. The Committee is of the view that the present obsolete system, bequeathed to India by Lord Ismay, merits re-examination. An effective and appropriate national security planning and decision-making structure for India in the nuclear age is overdue, taking account of the revolution in military affairs and threats of proxy war and terrorism and the imperative of modernising the Armed Forces. An objective assessment of the last 52 years will show that the country is lucky to have scraped through various national security threats without too much damage, except in 1962. The country can no longer afford such ad hoc functioning. The Committee therefore recommends that the entire gamut of national security management and apex decision-making and the structure and interface between the Ministry of Defence and the Armed Forces Headquarters be comprehensively studied and reorganised.
)
The two most imporatant recomendations were 1) creation of Intergrated Headquarters by crosss posting officers of civil and defence in each other billets - though on paper name has been changed from AHQ, NHQ or AFHQ to IHQ (Army) etc, but on ground no cross posting has led to no change in functioning delaying important decisions.
2) Another imp rec was creation of CDS post as that would have given Armed Forces a say in defence and strategic issues decision making - that has remained a dream to Nationalist
A lot will be solved if these two are implemented.
anilsangwan
Active member
Ghane rule regulations sein bhai tere Gulia saab.... moll le liye tenne to... likhan dega aak nahi?
Mods - kindly delete this post of mine once it is read by Yoginder bhai !
Mods - kindly delete this post of mine once it is read by Yoginder bhai !
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