Those guilty of "Within Gotra" marriage should be ostrasized by JAT's... Yes or No ?

[swaich]

Dear Swaich,

few more examples for you...
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?o...islams-genocidal-slavery-&catid=170&Itemid=67
http://proud-hindu.sulekha.com/blog/post/2008/12/impact-of-islamic-invasion-on-hindu-women.htm
http://www.isrj.net/PublishArticles/502.aspx

this is extracted from the first example of this post:-

The Muslim conquest of India was probably the bloodiest in history:The Islamic historians and scholars have recorded with utmost glee and pride of the slaughters of Hindus, forced conversions, abduction of Hindu women and children to slave-markets, and the destruction of temples carried out by the warriors of Islam during 800AD to 1700 AD. Millions of Hindus were converted to Islam by the sword in this period” (historian Durant cited in Khan p 201)

And Rizwan Salim (1997) writes what the Arab invaders really did:‘ savages at a very low level of civilisation and no culture worth the name, from Arabia and West Asia, began entering India from the early century onwards. Islamic invaders demolished countless Hindu temples, shattered uncountable sculpture and idols, plundered innumerable forts and palaces of Hindu kings, killed vast numbers of Hindu men and carried off Hindu women. .........but many Indians do not seem to recognize that the alien Muslim marauders destroyed the historical evolution of the earth’s most mentally advanced civilisation, the most richly imaginative culture, and the most vigorously creative society.” (cited in Khan p 179)

Again you are trying to pick and choose info and suit them to your line of argument. Muslim invaders carried off women. That is true. Did it create the custom of Sati? I dont think so. Sati was already in practice. How much or to what extent, we dont know. But the evidence is there.

and even now, if you are not able to see anything, i feel sorry for you... and i pray to god to bless you sight...

Thanks for praying for me. But pray for yourself too so you can see things from an unbiased hindu-muslim view.

so in other words sati was not a "partha" it was a ritual came into practice for a short period of time... and as this was inhumane and baseless it was discared later... it was declared a "partha" by few historians...

we should see "avoiding same gotra marriage" as not any custom, tradition, ritual or partha, instead it should be considered as a rule or system, which must be followed...

Even if we call it a rule instead of a custom, rules change with time. I certainly wont rely on a rule as you call it, which was created hundreds of years ago when there is no scientific or logical explanation for it in the current scenario.

by the way can you tell me what is the use of your surname "swaich"?????

Off topic.

 

[swaich]

Mr. Swaich,

Whether I have understood the topic in the context or not, you would not understand because it seems you are not ready to understand.

Of course the Jat community is a close - knit community, yet we have a very clearly delineated gotra system which ensures that the genetic inter-mingling does not happen too close. At the same time, the Jat community being a close-knit community is not a community of a handful of clans. It is a large community which is geographically spread out. Marrying out of gotras thereby ensures the keeping away/out of the ill effects or even the possibility of the ill effects of marrying anywhere close within the family tree or the extended family tree. Many, in fact most of our customs, traditions and way of living conform with the scientific principles/foundation, though when they came into being, the branches of various sciences weren't even in the incubator then. Hence, it would not be wrong to say that they were and are the precursors to further research in the various sciences.

Your last sentence, you have repeated what is being said by me all along. So, it should be me who should be asking "if it is all that hard to understand"...

I understand the gotra system and its originally intended purpose was valid when it was started. But perhaps you are unable to understand how things change and with change the system has to change too.

Lets assume for example that your great x 9 grandfather was the first Rana Jatt (I dont mean any disrespect but just trying to help you understand with an example). Now everyone of his future generation right upto you, followed the gotra rule and married outside the gotra. So with every generation, a new gotra DNA was added thus reducing the original Rana DNA further. Now after 10 generations, your DNA is a mixture of so many other gotra DNAs that you are a Rana only by name. So assuming that even if you marry a Rana girl (who herself will be mixed by other gotras and not just Rana) there would hrdly be any comon DNA between you and her. So what is the medical risk here?

Of course you can disregard the above example and simply say - "a custom is a custom" like so many others here.

 

[abhikrana]

By your logic it is okay for two persons falling in the tenth generation/level of a family tree to marry each other even if they are of the same gotra. Mind you, the genes even if they pass from one generation to the next despite the inter-mingling at each subsequent level more or less remain the same. Even if you take evolution into account to suggest genetic changes, that would take millions of years.

Hence, the custom of non-marriage within the gotra system is supported by well established scientific knowledge and research. Marriage within gotra is or would have been UNTHINKABLE for me and I would not advise the same to you or anybody else. If you (third person) would still like to go ahead with it, do it at your own peril (genetic and other physiological repercussions).

I understand the gotra system and its originally intended purpose was valid when it was started. But perhaps you are unable to understand how things change and with change the system has to change too.

Lets assume for example that your great x 9 grandfather was the first Rana Jatt (I dont mean any disrespect but just trying to help you understand with an example). Now everyone of his future generation right upto you, followed the gotra rule and married outside the gotra. So with every generation, a new gotra DNA was added thus reducing the original Rana DNA further. Now after 10 generations, your DNA is a mixture of so many other gotra DNAs that you are a Rana only by name. So assuming that even if you marry a Rana girl (who herself will be mixed by other gotras and not just Rana) there would hrdly be any comon DNA between you and her. So what is the medical risk here?

Of course you can disregard the above example and simply say - "a custom is a custom" like so many others here.

 

[swaich]

By your logic it is okay for two persons falling in the tenth generation/level of a family tree to marry each other even if they are of the same gotra. Mind you, the genes even if they pass from one generation to the next despite the inter-mingling at each subsequent level more or less remain the same. Even if you take evolution into account to suggest genetic changes, that would take millions of years.

How do they remain the same? You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.

Hence, the custom of non-marriage within the gotra system is supported by well established scientific knowledge and research. Marriage within gotra is or would have been UNTHINKABLE for me and I would not advise the same to you or anybody else. If you (third person) would still like to go ahead with it, do it at your own peril (genetic and other physiological repercussions).

It makes sense only for a few generations. But once your gene pool is diverse enough, one doesnt need to follow it.

 

[abhikrana]

If only the field of genetics was so simple as you think it to be. It's 50% from your father and 50% from your mother - this is too simplistic a view to take. But the field of genetics is not so simple as you have made it out. There is an inter - play of so many factors with some genes being dominant, while the others being recessive, etc etc. However, even taking your simplistic assumption into picture, lot of features of the gene pool in a particular family tree remain the same especially the dominant ones - Hence, for example, you get to see blue eyes resurfacing time and again in one generation/level or the other in a particular family tree or golden hair for that matter.

And as far as the viewpoint of not following the custom of non-marriage within the same gotra based on the mistaken assumption that the gene pool is diverse after a few generations, I would like to reiterate - anyone is free to do whatever he pleases with his life. S/he can go ahead and do it at his peril by all means.

How do they remain the same? You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.


It makes sense only for a few generations. But once your gene pool is diverse enough, one doesnt need to follow it.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

How do they remain the same? You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.


It makes sense only for a few generations. But once your gene pool is diverse enough, one doesnt need to follow it.

The discussion seems to advance towards: Jiskee bhavana jaisee, Prabhu Murat dekhi vaisi; aur

Jaisee drishtee vaisee srishtee!

 

[swaich]

The discussion seems to advance towards: Jiskee bhavana jaisee, Prabhu Murat dekhi vaisi; aur

Jaisee drishtee vaisee srishtee!

I bet most issues, maybe with a few exceptions, do end up at this point. And we are fortunate that this happens. Or the whole world will be at each other's throats.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

I bet most issues, maybe with a few exceptions, do end up at this point. And we are fortunate that this happens. Or the whole world will be at each other's throats.

Good, All is well that ends well ! ! !

 

[ssgoyat]

You are 50% your fathers genes and 50% your mother's genes. Your genes are only half similar to your father's. So your DNA carried by genes have changed.

.

If genetics is this simple as addition. I wish to go for a PhD

 

[swaich]

If genetics is this simple as addition. I wish to go for a PhD

You are welcome to disagree and post your opinion. Cracking wise comments is always easy.

 

[ssgoyat]

You are welcome to disagree and post your opinion. Cracking wise comments is always easy.

Ha ha.. you didn't get the hidden message my friend. Anyways.

Sorry, i don't think it would be wise for my wiseness to participate & discuss this, with a person, who happen to think in his distant dreams that the world of science is as easy as addition, subtraction...

Even chemistry is not that simple for that matter, let's rather put the topic of Genetics aside for a while. That

You mix 'X ML of chemical A + 'Y ML of chemical B'= and you get (X+Y) ML of some new formed chemical C.

Not to mention Biology used to be the first in my list of most hated subject. So, i don't consider myself academically qualified enough to further elaborate & falsify your logic of simple addition of genes


(PS: I hope i have made myself abundantly clear. And this conversation is OVER)

 

[swaich]

Ha ha.. you didn't get the hidden message my friend. Anyways.

Sorry, i don't think it would be wise for my wiseness to participate & discuss this, with a person, who happen to think in his distant dreams that the world of science is as easy as addition, subtraction...

Even chemistry is not that simple for that matter, let's rather put the topic of Genetics aside for a while. That

You mix 'X ML of chemical A + 'Y ML of chemical B'= and you get (X+Y) ML of some new formed chemical C.

Not to mention Biology used to be the last in line of my list of most hated subject. So, i don't consider myself academically qualified enough to further orate & falsify your logic of simple addition ofgenes


(PS: I hope i have made myself abundantly clear. And this conversation is OVER)

All that you have cleared is your own inability tp explain your argument via genetics itself but instead used well known chemistry fundas. If you are up for it pls explain how my argument was wrong by way of genetics, pls go ahead. If not better assume this convo is over for your own sake.

 

[ssgoyat]

Lets assume for example that your great x 9 grandfather was the first Rana Jatt (I dont mean any disrespect but just trying to help you understand with an example). Now everyone of his future generation right upto you, followed the gotra rule and married outside the gotra. So with every generation, a new gotra DNA was added thus reducing the original Rana DNA further. Now after 10 generations, your DNA is a mixture of so many other gotra DNAs that you are a Rana only by name. So assuming that even if you marry a Rana girl (who herself will be mixed by other gotras and not just Rana) there would hrdly be any comon DNA between you and her. So what is the medical risk here?

.

All that you have cleared is your own inability tp explain your argument via genetics itself but instead used well known chemistry fundas. If you are up for it pls explain how my argument was wrong by way of genetics, pls go ahead. If not better assume this convo is over for your own sake.

Okay. No more fundas, no more gyaan. Let's just say, i agree with your Logic & above quoted RANA example, for a while

Could you now please drop 'swaich' from your name?

And do keep me posted for your marriage with other swaich girl, In case you're single still. My contact details remains updated (my profile page). I want to be a witness for this historic event

 

[cutejaatsandeep]

Okay. No more fundas, no more gyaan. Let's just say, i agree with your Logic & above quoted RANA example, for a while

Could you now please drop 'swaich' from your name?

And do keep me posted for your marriage with other swaich girl, In case you're single still. My contact details remains updated (my profile page). I want to be a witness for this historic event

bro i asked him the same question that can u get married to a swaich girl and you know i got a shocking answer.he said yes i can

 

[abhikrana]

If only genetics as a field were so simple, Gregor Johann Mendel, the Austrian monk also known as the father of genetics wouldn't have spent a lifetime cross-breeding peas followed by countless scientists and geneticists spending theirs' after him.

What needs to be acknowledged and appreciated is what has already been established by it and to use it as building blocks for further research to deal with the complex problems still plaguing mankind.

 

[cooljat]

Abhik Bhai, why waste time when he's not ready at all to open his mind. It's like 'Bhains ke aage been bajana' !!

Mr. Swaich pretends to be pseudo-intellect, scholar, liberal or whatever .. this is his thinking, if he support same gotra marriage, let him marry his sisters and if he's already married .. in future, let him find same-gotra, sibiling matches for his kids. Mr Swaich, are your listening - WE JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!

Crux is a true Jat will never marry with in same gotra, no matter what. Topic is over!

Mr. Swaich,

Whether I have understood the topic in the context or not, you would not understand because it seems you are not ready to understand.

Of course the Jat community is a close - knit community, yet we have a very clearly delineated gotra system which ensures that the genetic inter-mingling does not happen too close. At the same time, the Jat community being a close-knit community is not a community of a handful of clans. It is a large community which is geographically spread out. Marrying out of gotras thereby ensures the keeping away/out of the ill effects or even the possibility of the ill effects of marrying anywhere close within the family tree or the extended family tree. Many, in fact most of our customs, traditions and way of living conform with the scientific principles/foundation, though when they came into being, the branches of various sciences weren't even in the incubator then. Hence, it would not be wrong to say that they were and are the precursors to further research in the various sciences.

Your last sentence, you have repeated what is being said by me all along. So, it should be me who should be asking "if it is all that hard to understand"...

 

[puneetlakra]

need to follow the gotra system

Mr Swaich, gotra forbidding really means best new breed to come after mating with new and different genetics chains ,
three different from father side and three from mother side , when we cross breed with the same DNA chain then we won't get the best and better breed that why our Intelligent forefathers developed this gotra forbidding system to get the better breed, even you are also the are example of this system , Is 6-7 generation are so wise and quicker as you are ? no . is your next few generations have same qualities which you have ? no they become much better if you follows the right system

 

[swaich]

Okay. No more fundas, no more gyaan. Let's just say, i agree with your Logic & above quoted RANA example, for a while

Could you now please drop 'swaich' from your name?

And do keep me posted for your marriage with other swaich girl, In case you're single still. My contact details remains updated (my profile page). I want to be a witness for this historic event

Why should I drop my choice of surname? What has that got to do with you? Its my family name.

I am already married by the way. As I mentioned a couple of pages back, there are instances of Jatt Sikhs of the same got marrying each other. The guy whom I was talking about, a Sidhu Jatt is in the IAF by the way and doing well.

 

[swaich]

Abhik Bhai, why waste time when he's not ready at all to open his mind. It's like 'Bhains ke aage been bajana' !!

Mr. Swaich pretends to be pseudo-intellect, scholar, liberal or whatever .. this is his thinking, if he support same gotra marriage, let him marry his sisters and if he's already married .. in future, let him find same-gotra, sibiling matches for his kids. Mr Swaich, are your listening - WE JUST DON'T GIVE A DAMN!!

Crux is a true Jat will never marry with in same gotra, no matter what. Topic is over!

Who are you to define a true Jatt? Its not your or anybody's copyright. If you cant debate, keep out!

 

[cutejaatsandeep]

there are instances of Jatt Sikhs of the same got marrying each other. The guy whom I was talking about, a Sidhu Jatt is in the IAF by the way and doing well.[/QUOTE]
bhai aiseee jaatoo ko haryanvi mai nakliiii bollee hee