News Search: The Natwar Singh Affair (consolidated thread)

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Gauging from the BOOK "Through the corridors of power" by Dr. P C Alexander, eminent personality and Former GOV. of Maharastra,one would know, Natwar had been a villain personified, even then. According to the book it was he who prevented the author's dream to be president. Alexender was intrumental in Natwar's transition from Bureaucracy to Politics and he behaved otherwise when it was his turn to payback. This is one side of the story, anyway, and i have no reason to believe it but on the hindsight Dr. PC had been a through Gentlemen and commands huge respect and credential.

Even if we forget his bad reputation, we cant, as he has rebounded so shamelessly,look at the way he has suddenly rose to realisation that he and his siblings are Jats. I think this kind of thinking should be completely condemed. Let a jat be affiliated to any party ( it doesnt really matter) as long as he is giving back something to the community. Opportunist for personal gains are the worst, they are neither jats nor Indian. Ask him to list out 10 instances when he has helped a jat, then i would be his fan for life . Lets assume that he is innocent( oil for food scam); so what, ask him what has he done for jats to ride piggy back on their rejuveneration.
let there be realisation for jats to know "Right" from "wrong".
 
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From 5 to 1 Lakh

I personally have never been a big fan of Mr. Natwar Singh, as I don't recollect that he did any thing either for his constituency or the Jat community in his long political career most of which had been in power.
So, if that be so, I feel that it is foolhardiness for Jat Mahasabha to support him. In any case the first statement was that 5 lakh Jats will gather at Jaipur and the last statement says that 1 Lakh would gather. Considering, the voters in a particular constituency of an MP, I guess even 5 lakh is not a number that shows support of all the Jats from across the state of Rajasthan alone. Those many people should be coming from his own constituency alone, that he has ruled for decades.
I have not read his counter alligations, but the fact of matter is (as many memebers have already brought out earlier on the thread) that why did he not come out with these things before his expulsion? Even if we believe that he was not the beneficiary and his party was, that does not lessen the guilt. This is one issue that has surfaced, how many times he must have been involved in such activities, whether to benefit his party or himself who knows?
The truth is that for him He and His Party comes the first alwasy and every time, while his constituency that he represents, the community he wants to support him and the Nation that he claims to have served has come last always and every time.
With above in view, if Jats still want to support him, by all means please do that, after all it is a free democratic nation, and we all have our own definition of nationalism.
 
First of all Mr. Natwar Singh was never a political leader with mass support. And he is one of the most literate person among all the political leaders we have.He is one of the few in india who have immense knowledge of foreign affairs.The only thing he did wrong was to stick to his cabinet post .He should have resigned immediately.As far as Manmohan singh is concerned he didn't wanted to lose him that's why he kept the foreign minster's post vacant bcoz they knew that they will manipulate pathak's comittee report where he will be declared innocent and thus returning the ministry to him.But Natwar Singh is after all JAT didn't kept his patience.
But as far as money I think Jagat singh made ard. 75 lakhs .
 
rameshlakra said:
Gauging from the BOOK "Through the corridors of power" by Dr. P C Alexander, eminent personality and Former GOV. of Maharastra,one would know, Natwar had been a villain personified, even then. According to the book it was he who prevented the author's dream to be president. Alexender was intrumental in Natwar's transition from Bureaucracy to Politics and he behaved otherwise when it was his turn to payback. This is one side of the story, anyway, and i have no reason to believe it but on the hindsight Dr. PC had been a through Gentlemen and commands huge respect and credential.

Even if we forget his bad reputation, we cant, as he has rebounded so shamelessly,look at the way he has suddenly rose to realisation that he and his siblings are Jats. I think this kind of thinking should be completely condemed. Let a jat be affiliated to any party ( it doesnt really matter) as long as he is giving back something to the community. Opportunist for personal gains are the worst, they are neither jats nor Indian. Ask him to list out 10 instances when he has helped a jat, then i would be his fan for life . Lets assume that he is innocent( oil for food scam); so what, ask him what has he done for jats to ride piggy back on their rejuveneration.
let there be realisation for jats to know "Right" from "wrong".
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Correct. We should never support these so called pseudo Jats. Any Jat whose roots are not in village can never understand our problems. In fact we should not support any politician who is anti-rural India. People like Natwar Singh, Salman Khurshid should shown the door. Unfortunately there are so many such characters in every party and they just manupulate their way to the top.

RK^2
 
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With all due respect ,I will disagree that we should not support Mr. Natwar Singh.I fail to understand what wrong he did to the nation by writing a letter of recomendation for his son or his son's friend.They earned by doing a business deal like thousands of companies across the world were doing with Iraq. If corruption is the parameter then he is still far much better then our so called jat leaders(Ajit Singh,Chautala).In my opinion he is person of great intellect with deep knowledge of foreign affairs.

Once Ch. Bansi lal said in TV interview"ki Neta to saab kharaab hai ,bas mein unse thoda kam kharaab hu".
thanks
 
gabbar said:
With all due respect ,I will disagree that we should not support Mr. Natwar Singh.I fail to understand what wrong he did to the nation by writing a letter of recomendation for his son or his son's friend.They earned by doing a business deal like thousands of companies across the world were doing with Iraq. If corruption is the parameter then he is still far much better then our so called jat leaders(Ajit Singh,Chautala).In my opinion he is person of great intellect with deep knowledge of foreign affairs.

Once Ch. Bansi lal said in TV interview"ki Neta to saab kharaab hai ,bas mein unse thoda kam kharaab hu".
thanks
Click to expand...

Why should we support him? Just because he is a Jat? Has he ever done anything for farmers? He is brother-in-law of Amrinder Singh. Did he ever ask him to support the construction of SYL canal? Did he ever raise his voice for our problems? He stands no where in comparison of Ajit Singh and Mr Chautala. Jats identify themselves with Ajit Singh and Chautala irrespective of anything. Did u hear anything from Natwar Singh on Jats being called lutera in history books? If he is such an intellectual, why he never spoke a word on the role of Jats in history ? Jats should send very clear message to all such leaders that they can not take our support for granted. They must give back something to community and only then community will stand by them.

RK^2
 
Does Intellect authorized corruption?

gabbar said:
With all due respect ,I will disagree that we should not support Mr. Natwar Singh.I fail to understand what wrong he did to the nation by writing a letter of recomendation for his son or his son's friend.They earned by doing a business deal like thousands of companies across the world were doing with Iraq. If corruption is the parameter then he is still far much better then our so called jat leaders(Ajit Singh,Chautala).In my opinion he is person of great intellect with deep knowledge of foreign affairs.

Once Ch. Bansi lal said in TV interview"ki Neta to saab kharaab hai ,bas mein unse thoda kam kharaab hu".
thanks
Click to expand...

A person is not a thief unless caught. By having a great intellect, it does not make a person immune to the law. As far as knowledge of foreign affairs is concerned, there may be many more people in the country who given the opportunity would prove to be a better foreign minister. I have not seen any thing outstanding being done by Mr. Natwar Singh as minister. And as far as Ch Bansi Lal's statement is concerned, that does not make Mr. Natwar clean either. Kharab to bhai Kharab hi hai, chahe thoda ho ya ziada.
 
The guy is really desperate!

Saari jindagi kaad dee, isne kade Jat yaad na aaye. Aaj jib iski
mata Sonia ne yoh sadak pa la diya tae isne Jat yaad aa gaye.
What a slime ball!!

Its very dissapointing to see the Jat Mahasabha patronising his pathetic
attempts to "rediscover" his Jat roots. What a bast*rd!
 
rkumar said:
Why should we support him? Just because he is a Jat? Has he ever done anything for farmers? He is brother-in-law of Amrinder Singh. Did he ever ask him to support the construction of SYL canal? Did he ever raise his voice for our problems? He stands no where in comparison of Ajit Singh and Mr Chautala. Jats identify themselves with Ajit Singh and Chautala irrespective of anything. Did u hear anything from Natwar Singh on Jats being called lutera in history books? If he is such an intellectual, why he never spoke a word on the role of Jats in history ? Jats should send very clear message to all such leaders that they can not take our support for granted. They must give back something to community and only then community will stand by them.

RK^2
Click to expand...



Absolutely true. But I wonder when our Mahasabha will learn who is good and who is bad. Who is consistent and who is opprtunistic. Why our Jat sabha and many jats just go behind a person who never did anything for the community or the rural India.
 
Look, people we can't take pride in Natwar Singh when he was a Foreign Minister, very powerful and successful and start "spitting on him" the moment he is in trouble and in not so graceful situation.

Let me ask you how many non Jats in India would have liked to see a "Jat" Foreign Minister? If you think that many then either you are naive or ignorant.

Now, this talk that Natwar didn't help me so why should I? This thinking is the very reason why Jats don't help other Jats.

All this talk of honesty, moral, ethics etc. is a tool used by smart people to exploit others. As far as law breakign is concerned, everyone in India breaks it everday, unless one is living in a cave.
 
Look people, we can't take pride in a Jat Leader (in this case Natwar Singh) when he is a Foreign Minister, powerful, and very successful and start "spitting on him" the moment he gets in trouble and bad situation. Stick to your kind all the time or else all this Jat talk is phony. Now, this talk that Natwar didn't help me so why should I, is the very reason why Jats don't help other Jats.

May I ask, how many non Jats like to see a Jat Prime Minister, Home Minister, Finance Minister, Foreign Minister, Defence Minister? If one thinks too many then he is either naive or ignorant.

Also, I have noticed people in this forum seem to have their favorite "Jat Leaders" based on their region. Ok, that's regional mentality not Jat mentality. I don't know which one is better regionalism or castiesm. But the basis of this forum is castiesm.

As far as law breaking is concerned, in India, everyone breaks it almost everyday, unless of course living in a cave.
 
Opprtunistic isn't always a bad thing. Besides, those at the helm of Jat Mahasbha are very successful people and have spent quite a lot of perspiration to be successful, so, I may take a liberty to argue that they must know what and why they are doing.

Respect and trust our leadership.
 

Views Expressed by you are defying logic,patly because if u think Chautala and Ajit singh are corrupt. Inteaad of advocating Natwar's case, they should be shown the doors, too. Volcer scam is akin to misusing ones power to influence tendors etc.

Secondly, No doubt he is a person of intellect, but he is using that at wrong places ( Iraq of all the places) and dragging jats in his self-gaol. We dont support Ravan's deed, although he was of acclaimed intelligence. Neither should we do it now.

Thirdly, as far as his knowledge about foreign afair goes, It is only confined to Foreign history and more or less bookish. He has spent considerable time in foreign service and hence that is his claim to fame. His views regarding US are totally against nation's interest and laced with a tinge of personnal vendatta, he became vocal only when shown door.

Regards
gabbar said:
With all due respect ,I will disagree that we should not support Mr. Natwar Singh.I fail to understand what wrong he did to the nation by writing a letter of recomendation for his son or his son's friend.They earned by doing a business deal like thousands of companies across the world were doing with Iraq. If corruption is the parameter then he is still far much better then our so called jat leaders(Ajit Singh,Chautala).In my opinion he is person of great intellect with deep knowledge of foreign affairs.

Once Ch. Bansi lal said in TV interview"ki Neta to saab kharaab hai ,bas mein unse thoda kam kharaab hu".
thanks
Click to expand...

 
That is the Pity

sanjeevm said:
Look, people we can't take pride in Natwar Singh when he was a Foreign Minister, very powerful and successful and start "spitting on him" the moment he is in trouble and in not so graceful situation.

Let me ask you how many non Jats in India would have liked to see a "Jat" Foreign Minister? If you think that many then either you are naive or ignorant.

Now, this talk that Natwar didn't help me so why should I? This thinking is the very reason why Jats don't help other Jats.

All this talk of honesty, moral, ethics etc. is a tool used by smart people to exploit others. As far as law breakign is concerned, everyone in India breaks it everday, unless one is living in a cave.
Click to expand...

Dear Mr. Mahlawat Ji,
The pity is what pride do you want to take in a Jat Leader? You want to be proud that your Jat leader is doing what Mr. Natwar Singh has done?
Now regarding I will not help him because he did not help me mentality. That may be your mentality but don't brand it as a Jat mentality as a community. Mr. Natwar Singh has been minister all his life. He comes from a princely family, thus it is expected that he could be one candidate who could have served the nation with one rupee a month pay. What is the condition of the constituency he represents. Does it have best of roads? Best of schools? Best of other facilities which a comunity/constituency looks for? And once again, if Ajit Singh and Chautala has not done any thing of this kind, then we are not defending them either. There is nothing regionalism or castism here.
The purpose of this forum is to discuss any thing on earth by the people of Jat Community, and not just, justify every thing that is done by any Jat.
You want to support Mr. Natwar Singh, please by all means go ahead. You must be having very valid reasons for your views and actions, I and many other members don't. For me, it really does not matter if a leader is Jat or not, so long he works for the people who had elected him to the position that has made him leader and given him the means to attract public attention.
I will appreciate and would go all out to support Mr. Natwar Singh with you so long you can post some thing worth that he has done in his life for his constituency or the Jat Community whose support he wants to seek now.
 
Firstly, I would like to thank you Col. Saheb for your respectable address to me. Secondly, when I said "respect and trust our leadership" I was referring to Jat Mahasabha leadership not Jat political leadership. Trusting "politicians" is like playing with fire with greater odds to get burned.

Coming to political leadership, to some extent I tend to agree with you that Jat thread alone may not be a sufficient condition to support a political leader, as a Jat may be crook too (as a matter of fact I have come across quite a few). But then we might ask how could a Jat crook become a leader? As we all know that most aspect of any system in India are caste oriented---political system is no exception. In that caste oriented system a Jat leader most probably has to emerge from Jat dominated areas and that is going to reflect on the whole community. What I am trying to point out is that the onus is on Jats what kind of political leaders they choose (although the Natwar Singh case is a bit of nomination).

Now, it is also unfair to ask a Jat leader to pass a litmus test. What do we think of these politicians of other castes? Do we think they are people with honesty and moral? So, one might imagine how hard it would be to survive in indian system.

The question here is that why Natwar Singh is being singled out and that too based on this barometer of "honesty". I think dumping Natwar Singh on that basis is quite lame. Personally, I think among the "Jat pack" he is one of the decent person and has had a relatively clean career. I believe (others very well might have different opinion) that Natwar Singh is not a crook. However, I do agree that in this Volker episode he did not show much sigh of either a mature politician or a seasoned diplomat---which one might have expected. Natwar Singh's behavior was childish at best. Has he handled it gracefully, the same Natwar Singh could have come out as a hero. If I may guess his "Jat ego" overhelmed him. This sort of behavor is not the first time I have observed from National Jat leaders, so, its not surprizing at all. There are quite a few precedents.

Anyway, question might be, was Natwar Singh the only person whom Volker solely named in his report? How come in the whole wide world Natwar Singh was only one Volker casualty? If one were to believe Volker report then there are so many Indian entities have benefitted directly and haven't paid any taxes, might have violated FERA rules which are more serious issues than a "reference" letter written by Natwar Singh on an AICC letter head. And AICC is by no means a govt. entity so, it doesn't even make it any abuse of public position.

I by no means trying to convince anyone for Natwar Singh or against any other leaders. I have no "personal or political" reason to drum myself for Natwar Singh either. I got involved myself in this discussion mostly because of a Jat in me and I considered the level of this issue is way above the local level issues like a local road, a water tank in a vilage, a teacher/consatble's transfer. Of course these things matter but at local level politics and better left for local/state level politicians.

I am also saying that we perhaps need to be careful about the systematic propaganda generated by politically and cast biased media who are controlled by and large by people whom in most part are not Jat friendly (to a degree we ourselves to be blamed). I don't need to point that out I guess.

On somewhat related comment somewhere that Natwar Singh is a prince with no knowledge of poor people problems. Well, when did kings and prince did so? The irony is that on one hand we disgust the kings/prince and on the other we search our history in kings---no matter how far back in time we might have to go to make that connection---to make ourselves proud. Puzzling to one!!!
 
My vote

To me it seems a little out of tune with times (and long term interests of every one) that Natwar Singh should be supported just because he is a Jat. I find more reasons why he should not be supported

1. Of course the first one would be that he never did anything for the community. Not even his own constituence.
\
2.When caught, he lied. Kam se kam, bhaiyon ke beech mein aakar to sach bolkar mafi maaang leta.

3. As FM, conducted himself like the poodle dog of a foreigner - Sonia. Hope we all remember how he accompnied Sonia to Russia and served as her personal secretary. People may know that this personal visit of Sonia was to wipe off the traces of her ill gotten money stacked in Swiss banks, that was likely to become public after old KGB records were scrutinised by a Russian commission.

4. Supports nuclearisation of Iran just because Iran is anti-US. Are we not sufficiently threatened as a non-Islamic country, by the tightening Jehadi noose, and Pakistani atom bombs ?
 
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