GOD! Are you there?

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raj_rathee said:
As always, a very interesting subject, and, as expected, the level of debate
is annoyingly lame. Lots of blind people arguing with each other about the
beauty of the world. :rolleyes:

All you folks...at the very least could you please stop trying to be some
sort of authority on the subject. Whether or not there is some authority
on this issue is itself questionable, let alone all these authorities on Jatland.

Everything is hypothetical. Any discussion on God must necessarily be a
curious search for the answers rather than egoistic assertions of the truth.

Since that is not something that can be expected here, all I would
recommend is just to try to read as much as possible on this subject
with an open yet critical mind. Perhaps something might make sense. At the
very least you'd be spending some time learning from people who
have actually spent some serious time probing for answers.

I have been reading a lot about spirituality recently, especially as it
related to Vedic point of view. Haven't found any answers (and frankly don't
expect to either), but there is good material for thought.

I just recently read some very positive reviews on a book
"Code Name God" by a desi guy (inventor of the laser). I hope
to read it in the near future. If anyone already has read this, let me know
how they found it.

Here is the amazon.com link:

http://www.amazon.com/Code-Name-Spi..._bbs_sr_1/103-8253904-2663818?ie=UTF8&s=books
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Manne kaal taddkehein Yaad krya thha rajje arr sochie," Yo raajje kadde gaya bhagwaan?"...Arr dekh krishmma....Yu aa gya mharra Rajje..! Bhai manno na manno..BHAGWAAN Laathhi BARR ka SEI.........! Aur Rajje ke haal-chaal..?
 
devdahiya said:
Manne kaal taddkehein Yaad krya thha rajje arr sochie," Yo raajje kadde gaya bhagwaan?"...Arr dekh krishmma....Yu aa gya mharra Rajje..! Bhai manno na manno..BHAGWAAN Laathhi BARR ka SEI.........! Aur Rajje ke haal-chaal..?
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Ha ha :D

Chacha bas aapka ashirwaad bana raho, haal-chaal tae aape theek ho ja sae.
Hum Jataan ke Bhagwaan tae mahare bade shayane e hon sae.
 
kharub said:
Exactly this is what God is ........ IMAGINATION .... what is Soul ?? .. Science is very advanced .. can even do heart transplants ...... nobody has ever found anything like a soul ... what you call soul is emotional intelligence .. thats what it is
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Kharub bro..if there is nothing like soul, why do we die. Why can't we be fixed or refurbished just like a machine. When we die, why our heart or eyes remain alive only for a certain time and need to be donated within a specific time. If they are just normal parts similar to computer part, why can't they be revived even after we so called die?

Even cement walls are made up of atoms, similarly all so called non-living things then how are we different from them if we don't have something called as soul or pran. Don't tell me its just the way our atomic structure is setup.

Secondly, if there is nothing called soul, how come you find people who remeber their past births. All such incidents are not fluke, there have been lot of such incidents and been verified too. Souls are the one who preserve all the memories within themselves. Now, whether there is a supersoul is a different question as there is no direct way to verify until and unless you die. But will talk about it later or not if you prove that there can't be a soul and its just a figment of imagination.
 
Bhai Prashant ......... my conviction is that Human body is just a sophisticated machine ... we already have the capability to make certain parts of it ourselves and soon we will be able to make it in whole

pnauhwar21 said:
Kharub bro..if there is nothing like soul, why do we die. Why can't we be fixed or refurbished just like a machine. When we die, why our heart or eyes remain alive only for a certain time and need to be donated within a specific time. If they are just normal parts similar to computer part, why can't they be revived even after we so called die?

The organs die out when the oxyzen supply in the blood is exhausted .... and soon we will live forever ........ have you heard of heart, kidney, liver transplants ?? How do you explain them ??
Because heart and liver are just like components of a machine and get replaced ... if every human being was created by god and unique you would not be able to exchange body parts and now they can even grow liver in labs ...
Science has advanced a lot and soon not only keep em alive .. body parts will be manufactured in labs ...... and its no science fiction dream , people are already working on it




Even cement walls are made up of atoms, similarly all so called non-living things then how are we different from them if we don't have something called as soul or pran. Don't tell me its just the way our atomic structure is setup.

Thats the way it is .... see from sand you can make a sand castle on the beach and the next wave can wash it away ...... you can use sand with concrete and make a building ....... and you can also make a silicon chip ... All made of sand ....... but incomparable in capacity and function

Similarly everything is made up of matter and the sophistication of any machine or composition is based on how matter combines .. what is the architecture ... the design ... the layout .. just like a sand castle and a silicon processing chip

Secondly, if there is nothing called soul, how come you find people who remeber their past births. All such incidents are not fluke, there have been lot of such incidents and been verified too. Souls are the one who preserve all the memories within themselves. Now, whether there is a supersoul is a different question as there is no direct way to verify until and unless you die. But will talk about it later or not if you prove that there can't be a soul and its just a figment of imagination.
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Cmmon dont tell me you believe in rebirth stories ...... i find them hillarious .... and there is a way to explain them as well ........ electro-magnetic waves .... mind is a machine .. super super super computing machine .. capable of emotional intellegence and rational intellegence ...... and some rare persons brain catches these electromagnetic waves and deciphers them and narrates the story ........ its a brain malfunctioning or hyper functioning whatever you want to call it

Now i need evidence to prove there is a good ........ enough of me giving counter arguments
 
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kharub said:
Bhai Prashant ......... my conviction is that Human body is just a sophisticated machine ... we already have the capability to make certain parts of it ourselves and soon we will be able to make it in whole



Cmmon dont tell me you believe in rebirth stories ...... i find them hillarious .... and there is a way to explain them as well ........ electro-magnetic waves .... mind is a machine .. super super super computing machine .. capable of emotional intellegence and rational intellegence ...... and some rare persons brain catches these electromagnetic waves and deciphers them and narrates the story ........ its a brain malfunctioning or hyper functioning whatever you want to call it

Now i need evidence to prove there is a good ........ enough of me giving counter arguments
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Vish nyu chahwei sei akk koe uss bhagwaan nei chah pe bulla ke biskutt khatta dikhawei.....Konya ho sakkti nyu tei.Arr ow aawei bi konya na tei ya duniya uss bicharre ka bakkal maangg degi.


Maan liya bhai bhagwaan-Shagwaan kuchh na ya duniya tei RAM bharosse chal rhi sei...ha..ha..ha..KILLKI @ RAM bharosse.
 
kharub said:
Bhai Prashant ......... my conviction is that Human body is just a sophisticated machine ... we already have the capability to make certain parts of it ourselves and soon we will be able to make it in whole

The organs die out when the oxyzen supply in the blood is exhausted .... and soon we will live forever ........ have you heard of heart, kidney, liver transplants ?? How do you explain them ??
Because heart and liver are just like components of a machine and get replaced ... if every human being was created by god and unique you would not be able to exchange body parts and now they can even grow liver in labs ...
Science has advanced a lot and soon not only keep em alive .. body parts will be manufactured in labs ...... and its no science fiction dream , people are already working on it

Cmmon dont tell me you believe in rebirth stories ...... i find them hillarious .... and there is a way to explain them as well ........ electro-magnetic waves .... mind is a machine .. super super super computing machine .. capable of emotional intellegence and rational intellegence ...... and some rare persons brain catches these electromagnetic waves and deciphers them and narrates the story ........ its a brain malfunctioning or hyper functioning whatever you want to call it

Now i need evidence to prove there is a good ........ enough of me giving counter arguments
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Dear Vj..Don't be exhausted with giving counter arguments..after all its a big topic and the answers are coming from our super computing brain :o

You said organs die out when the oxyzen supply in the blood is exhausted. So, basically if we give back the oxygen supply, a dead person can come alive again. As per you its possible in future. Lets agree on this point for the moment. So, may be 100 years from now, no one can die. If somebody is hit by 20 bullets in his chest, no worries..doctors will replace his damaged organ, pump some oxygen and aloha!! he will be back on his legs..

So, with this logic and potential advancement in science, now the scientists should be able to make a robot as live as us. They will just pump some oxygen, assemble the manmade organs and a new being will be born without any need for reproduction. Is that true as per your logic? If yes, then you got the answer. Man himself will be god!!

As for rebirth stories, why do you find them hilarious? We have heard so many accounts all over the world which have been compiled by commendable phsycologists and not jokers. Even in India so many people have been able to identify a family far away from them without any linkage, they can tell each and everything about the house they have never seen at the age of 5 and you say its just some electromagnetic waves which were captured by their super-computing brains? And on what basis can you say that they are all false until and unless you have visited those people yourselves? A small account has happened with me too when I was just 2 yr old and used to scribble in script resembling south indian language.

Last but not the least, I totally agree that man has learnt a lot about his body and even I am surprised, that so many ailments can be fixed just by popping a pill or getting an injection but in no way can we have the ability to put Life in a dead person or a non-living person. You said brain has emotional intelligence - what exactly is that? We have sensory powers, we can dream and go into another world, we can meditate and levitate, we can speak. And why are we and any living being born through reproduction and not the way we build castles and silicon chip? If all this is just power of a supercomputing machine without soul, I find this far far more hilarious.

I am not exhausted with arguments on such an interesting topic btw :cool: so keep it coming
 
"Those who can make you believe in absurdities can make you commit atrocities"

"This world will never know peace untill the last Politician has been strangled with the guts of the last Priest"

....so said Voltaire
 
pnauhwar21 said:
You said organs die out when the oxyzen supply in the blood is exhausted. So, basically if we give back the oxygen supply, a dead person can come alive again. As per you its possible in future. Lets agree on this point for the moment. So, may be 100 years from now, no one can die. If somebody is hit by 20 bullets in his chest, no worries..doctors will replace his damaged organ, pump some oxygen and aloha!! he will be back on his legs..

Yes it will be possible ...... the revival of a body depends on the extent of damage also ......... a car completely wrecked in an accident is beyond repair ... but if the front bit is damaged it can be replaced ... and most of others things too ........ same goes for the human body ..... the repair depends on the extent of damage

So, with this logic and potential advancement in science, now the scientists should be able to make a robot as live as us. They will just pump some oxygen, assemble the manmade organs and a new being will be born without any need for reproduction. Is that true as per your logic? If yes, then you got the answer. Man himself will be god!!

There is nothing called God .......... man will just have the capacity to make its own spare parts .... because we can reapir a car does not stop the need for factory production ... i think reproduction will not cease to exist

As for rebirth stories, why do you find them hilarious? We have heard so many accounts all over the world which have been compiled by commendable phsycologists and not jokers. Even in India so many people have been able to identify a family far away from them without any linkage, they can tell each and everything about the house they have never seen at the age of 5 and you say its just some electromagnetic waves which were captured by their super-computing brains? And on what basis can you say that they are all false until and unless you have visited those people yourselves? A small account has happened with me too when I was just 2 yr old and used to scribble in script resembling south indian language.

start scribling anything on a piece of paper and it will surely resemble some language somewhere ..... ancient Eyptian as well ...... and can be well expalined by electro magnetic waves theory

Last but not the least, I totally agree that man has learnt a lot about his body and even I am surprised, that so many ailments can be fixed just by popping a pill or getting an injection but in no way can we have the ability to put Life in a dead person or a non-living person. You said brain has emotional intelligence - what exactly is that? We have sensory powers, we can dream and go into another world, we can meditate and levitate, we can speak. And why are we and any living being born through reproduction and not the way we build castles and silicon chip? If all this is just power of a supercomputing machine without soul, I find this far far more hilarious.

reproduction is nothing spectecular its just the process how these advanced bionic machines called living beings are made ..... its just another production process ...... highly sopisticated though ...... thinking, dreaming, logic, imagination has all to do with brains computing power

I am not exhausted with arguments on such an interesting topic btw :cool: so keep it coming
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I meant why are you guys not putting forward any of concrete facts for so called Gods existence ...........
 
pnauhwar21 said:
While we are discussing with our intellectual brains, go through this website I found : http://www.doesgodexist.org/ ..Some more good scientific logic to prove god exists..
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These fanatic Christian Evangelists will go to any extent of lying and distortion of facts to prove that God does exist ........ because thats where they derive their power form

they do not convince me ......... they are the filth of our world
 
devdahiya said:
G= Governor
O= Of
D+ Destiny
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Dahiya Ji ....... there is nothing called destiny

our life is based on calculations that we enter when we are concieved ..... and these calculations get fed by our enviornment too ..... thats what it is .. its not pre planned ...... its gets calculated and then acted upon during the course of our life
 
VJ..lets agree that we are advanced bionic machines and all our body parts get setup perfectly through an advanced reproduction process just like a car assembly line but we very well know that nothing is created out of thin air. And as per your logic, there is no difference between a living being and non-living being - they are just 2 separate processes. But whether its a huge plane or a small silicon chip, they are created through a process by man, they don't automatically get created within the nature. If man is also an advanced machine like them, there must be a creator of us too who has setup this environment, an assembly line system where 2 machines i.e. Man and Woman connect and a new machine is created. The nature is just a huge factory where various systems are present which we are free to use and change. And the one who has created all this for us is God for us. Hence proved that God exists..
 
The way our system is setup

Our system is similar to a computer system. We can fit a computer with best of harddisk, 2 gig of Ram, latest software but its useless until we run current into it. Similarly, even if scientists are able to create all human organs whether artificial or transplants from other human machines, the body would be useless until you enter the current viz. Soul inside it. The way we produce current/electricity, our souls are also created in a world beyond this where Chitragupt is the principal scientist.

The way we have virus in the computer, we have virus in our ecosystem in the way of natural calamaties like hurricane, earthquake or man-made like bombings, rapes, etc. We need to fight on our own by creating anti-virus for all these virus. When a virus spreads in a computer, it destroys good programs who have no fault of theirs, similarly virus in our system annihilates good people or even children who apparently don't have any fault. Until and unless, we create a great anti-virus system, we will have various viruses in the form of terrorists, rapists and murderers. When we pray to god, we sometimes get a new software or upgrade in our system depending on the availibility and need. All the process is transparent to us hence we keep on doubting on a higher force as we can't see it.

You can't even see current though you use it in almost everything you do. Similarly you can't see your soul but thats what drives your body. When your body grows old just like a computer, your soul needs a new body system. Those people in heaven regulate all this by selecting a new body for you. The souls who act as virus in our system, are eventually annhilated when we run anti-virus.
 
pnauhwar21 said:
VJ..lets agree that we are advanced bionic machines and all our body parts get setup perfectly through an advanced reproduction process just like a car assembly line but we very well know that nothing is created out of thin air. And as per your logic, there is no difference between a living being and non-living being - they are just 2 separate processes. But whether its a huge plane or a small silicon chip, they are created through a process by man, they don't automatically get created within the nature. If man is also an advanced machine like them, there must be a creator of us too who has setup this environment, an assembly line system where 2 machines i.e. Man and Woman connect and a new machine is created. The nature is just a huge factory where various systems are present which we are free to use and change. And the one who has created all this for us is God for us. Hence proved that God exists..
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That doesn't prove **** mate ...... i have already explained where i stand on nature ...... refer to old posts ....... my stance on nature clearly expalins what nature is and how differnet components in our enviornment are formed
 
pnauhwar21 said:
Our system is similar to a computer system. We can fit a computer with best of harddisk, 2 gig of Ram, latest software but its useless until we run current into it. Similarly, even if scientists are able to create all human organs whether artificial or transplants from other human machines, the body would be useless until you enter the current viz. Soul inside it. The way we produce current/electricity, our souls are also created in a world beyond this where Chitragupt is the principal scientist.

Incorrect ....... I have already clarified this issue before as well .... The food we eat is the fuel that runs us .... in mothers womb we get fed this fuel by the mother ....... there is no need for soul for a current .... your conception on my diagram is flawed .... see now my argument is scientifically proven ...... and your's is a shot in the air

The way we have virus in the computer, we have virus in our ecosystem in the way of natural calamaties like hurricane, earthquake or man-made like bombings, rapes, etc.
We need to fight on our own by creating anti-virus for all these virus. When a virus spreads in a computer, it destroys good programs who have no fault of theirs, similarly virus in our system annihilates good people or even children who apparently don't have any fault. Until and unless, we create a great anti-virus system, we will have various viruses in the form of terrorists, rapists and murderers. When we pray to god, we sometimes get a new software or upgrade in our system depending on the availibility and need. All the process is transparent to us hence we keep on doubting on a higher force as we can't see it.

depending on the availability ?? so your God does not have an instant ready solution, he has to plan and produce solution beforehand and if he is run out of them and thus they are not availaible then you will not get the update .. not thats a risky bet ....... i'd rather find a more dependable supplier... than risking my system safety on such a god who cannot gurantee instant availability :D

Now this is a new argument ... thats much better .. something new to talk about. You were going quite well with the scientific theory .. just before you inserted the a non existent conceptual thing like GOD. No software gets updated by praying and not virus gets killed by praying ....... the Jews were praying god for sure to save their lives ... what happened to GOD then and the guys who got their throat slit in Iraq too were praying for their lifes ... but to no avail ........ There is no GOD mate ...... get that reality set in mind .. however hard it is to do ......


You can't even see current though you use it in almost everything you do. Similarly you can't see your soul but thats what drives your body. When your body grows old just like a computer, your soul needs a new body system. Those people in heaven regulate all this by selecting a new body for you. The souls who act as virus in our system, are eventually annhilated when we run anti-virus.
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Thats a funny argument that soul needs a new body ..... sounds more like an African Witch doctor theory than a credible scientific one

Current can be scientifically proven and seen too when it creates sparks and for example when thunder strikes ... that light is nothing but current ... there is no soul ... its just an unproven imaginary concept and before it is proved no charge is valid even in law .... So its an invalid argument
 
VJ brother..On one hand you say we are machines but then also say that we are created autmatically and grow by eating our fuel i.e. food. Tell me one machine which grows in size over a period of time by eating its fuel ie. current. If nature is madeup of atoms and if life (including humans) was created automatically be mixture of various compounds, why there are no more humans getting created directly from nature.

You yourself have not given any scientific proof but just claiming that everything is created by default, dreams and rebirths are electro-magnetic waves captured by brains - is there any scientific proof of that? Even today there are numerous things that can't be proved by science and you can't just claim that everything will be. Though science is a very good tool and we have learnt a lot about ourselves and our environment, but we should still keep our mind open for every possibility rather than closing it blindly - thats the best way to learn. There is a famous quote twisted as per my understanding- If you look at milk, you will not know that has butter in it until you churn it. Similarly, you will not know that the God or so called external power is part of this nature until you try to find it rather than asking other people to prove it.

Even I can't claim to know that God exists neither do I pray to him for getting everything but I do want to keep my mind open for knowing things which I don't know. Meditation is one such way, I guess. Don't just go by neo-days meditation camps..they are just for health purpose..you will learn a lot about yourself if reach the highest level of meditation..i have first hand experience from my known fellows (though still in nascent stage)..

Lastly, I know everybody has his own thinking patterns and beliefs. So, can only say that wait until you die to find out about souls and yamdoots :)
 
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