An Inconvenient Truth

[deepakchoudhry]

Prince Charles awared Green Citizen of the world...LOL

Have a read and see the hypocrisy.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21088068-2703,00.html

 

[priti]

i dont know why you got so hyper....what i said is true that environmental issues dont get discussed in India...

well wot makes u write that statement priti ....... ok we have time only for such things but then how did u come across this thing.... i hope u turn ur ears deaf opon hearing such stuff...... right????? BTW thx for making me aware about this topic.... i really didnt knew about it.......

Also for ur info this drama has been staged in ur thinking and responsible west not in india ... also the monetry benefits were to the channel there n not here .... i doubt that show is aired in india....

Cummmon priti i still cant controll my laughter ............. as wot was the need to say this ......... how many years have u been in west ????? u go on to say that before going to west u were also mentally sick n now u r suddenly enlightened and think about whole world....... i wish i was there tooo... so that i can also be a sensible person and the one who dosent gossip around allways.....

please be assured ppl in india are very sensible and are doing their bit in all spehers of life ... but then exceptions and a mix of all type of ppl is there in whole world... then wy only india or indians have to be blamed ....

i wonder there are more gossip mag's n programmes in US then in india !!!! now u decide ................

 

[rakeshdahiya]

Climate change in singapoe

Dear Priti,

I agree with u that climate is changing drastically.....i would like to give the example of Singapore...i was told that the rainy seson in singapore is Nov Dec but this year it has rained in aug sept and oct as well and its raining very heavily in Jan also.....u must have read abt floods in Malasia......i was told that rain has been unusually heavy this year(inspite of Songapore being a tropical country)....i agrree tyat its all because of Global warming.....we should do our little bit to save our earth....akhir boond boond se hi sagar bhartaa hai.............

 

[desijat]

Hi Priti,
It reminds me of analogy of a person who does not take sugar in the tea but stuffs oneself with Chocolate and Candies.

Deepak

This reminds me...

Yesterday was my friends birthday, and we were having a very heavy indian meal which consisted of allmost everything one could think of. One of my friends had a heavy dinner, lost of sweet dishes , and at the end asked for Diet coke

 

[ritu]

i wonder there are more gossip mag's n programmes in US then in india !!!! now u decide

tbi bhai u r forgetting preety is in canada not in us.

 

[trueblueindian]

i wonder there are more gossip mag's n programmes in US then in india !!!! now u decide

tbi bhai u r forgetting preety is in canada not in us.

koye naaaa bebey US and canada or for that matter europe.... aek sei aae sei..... i was just reacting on pritis statement about the intreasts of indian ppl...... nothing more and it was about goras not NRI's and also for those few NRI's who dont miss a chance to cuss and discuss india and its ppl on every single opportunity..... berra na uddde pahunchtae aae kaunsi high headedness ke shikaar ho jya sei few ppl ( now not commentng on u priti )

 

[trueblueindian]

i dont know why you got so hyper....what i said is true that environmental issues dont get discussed in India...

Priti well am not that hyper but the way u talked about how ppl in india are concerned about things made me upset..... u just cant generealise things .....

u muss be in the feild of enviormetel sciences and must be concerned also...... no doubts i respect your concerns ....... but then the way indians have preserved enviorment from centuries is one gud example ....... also a very nice example quoted by deepak... have a look.... i guess u should write something on this so that westren ppl learn and adopt these wonderfull qualities..... now cheer up

FOR YOUR INFO - -- even havan / sarso ke tael key diya's / gossse (uplas) help purify the enviorment to a great extent..... yahan tou dharam mei bhi enviorment ko aage rakkkha gaya hai ji.... and if u researh closely u will find many such wonderfull ideas....


last but not least - - - u can destroy less or more enviorment but you just cant stop destroying it .... also no science can change the climate... its the principle of nature to change from time to time n thats wy we all are in existence...

 

[priti]

Among all the things I said, you picked this to discuss....bhai jisne duniya dekhi hai woh uske baare mein baat bhi kar sake hai....ibb tu manne batauga ki mein india ko discuss kar sakti hun ya nahin...jiske baare mein concern hoti hai uske baare mein bola bhi jata hai....do you have a problem if i discuss my country and say that an important aspect is missing from the economic discussions....ya haade sirf khilli udaan khater aaya kare...enlightened te mein india mein ye hogi thee....jab wahan ke garment workers ko interview karti thi aur ankhon mein aansu aa jaate the, jab dilli ke gaam saare industrialise hoge...saans lena mushkil hoga....jab saaran ne keh keh ke pareshaan hogi akk bhai dustbin bas do kadam door se..uss me phek diyo i kagaj ke glass ne....

we aren't always going to remain in the upla era....just wait and see what haryana becomes after five years if no environmental norms are established....

Dilli ke pollution ka haal to mein khud dekh ke aa rahi hun...despite the cng and everything...

water table in India is going low....

All these things are not a result of evolution of earth, they are result of bad practicies in economic activities....

The purpose of starting this thread was to share a concern, to see how responsible people feel about these things...I gather not much...thats fine by me...to each his own...the least one can do for having the priviledge of human brain is to make informed choices....its fine if people knowlingly dont care...the problem is when people dont care to know...

god probably gave equal importance to all species...what has that leopard who killed brutally by villagers lately in India done to deserve that fate...we are increasingly occupying habitats of other species (read transgressing)...we'll probably keep token lions in the zoos to show to future generations..yeah those existing once upon a time...

and let me clarify how I became enlightened...not because I have lived in 'the west' but because of my experience in and outside india...

high headed NRIs....bs......look around you in delhi and let me know how many modest and level headed people you see....many think of themselves as gods just on the qualification of having a politician relative...and yes why should NRIs not be high headed...they have gone to a different country, have made it own their own in a foreign environment and are doing their country proud....and if i'm not wrong a little credit should be given to these NRIs in creating the current India phenomenon in the world...so much for generalizations...

I would be very grateful if people who respond to this thread stick to the topic...

koye naaaa bebey US and canada or for that matter europe.... aek sei aae sei..... i was just reacting on pritis statement about the intreasts of indian ppl...... nothing more and it was about goras not NRI's and also for those few NRI's who dont miss a chance to cuss and discuss india and its ppl on every single opportunity..... berra na uddde pahunchtae aae kaunsi high headedness ke shikaar ho jya sei few ppl ( now not commentng on u priti )

 

[desijat]

I would agree to you PRiti di But i would differ on the note that we are not doing anything..

For instance, when it came to pollution then we did implement CNG, and trust me, if i can feel the difference in the Air of Delhi then it is really changing. Delhi is going more beautiful day by day.

Secondly, Boring(Digging for water) is not allowed in certain areas of South Delhi and some other parts where water level has dipped very below. This is an order passed by the court, however i do agree that corrupt officers still let it happen in a few private institutions for bribes.

People still spit on the road, inspite of dustbins on every few 100 meters.
People still urinate in open, inspite of urinals being provided by government in every major public place.

It isnt that we are not doing anything, but just that we are failing in educating people.


India and Indians have always been reactive, and not proactive as our friends in west are. We dont sense the threat before, and if somehow we get to know it then we try to ignore it by closing our eyes(most of the times)

 

[priti]

I think your reason is pretty reasonable...terms are usually highjacked to serve propaganda...and many times by groups who have formed a certain opionion about things and wouldn't budge form it....but we have to differentiate between propaganda and reality...even to make good economic sense....i'll come back to this later...first i need to emphasise that- one we have natural climate change....second, we have climate change which is not natural but due to unrestrained human activities...

now, coming to the economic sense of climate change...some developments and examples...carbon trading.....companies adopting policies on climate change....its a shame that US hasn't signed the kyoto till now and north America in general is far behind Indian and chinese standards of car emissions! (now Sandesh dont get too happy....that happened because tata wanted to export cars to EU and EU has pretty strict standards in vehicle emissions...thus the same standards had to be implemented in India...which is great!).

negative effect of using bad technologies...an oil spill in alaska cost BP 36 million everyday! just imagine what it would do to its quarterly/annual results! alternative energy is the next big sector for investors...all big energy companies are spending big money on alternative energy R&D

pension funds are moving into responsible investments i.e. considering the stakeholder and environmental issues in the valuations of companies...now that is something considering the amount and nature of money PFs have worldwide...

I can go on and on about how these things link up and we actually need to look at their logic and not who's talking about them....its the venture capitalists who're coming up with the most innovative and socially responsible technologies and practices nowadays...so private enterpreneurship is actually a boon for this sector...

The reason I do not buy into the global warming propaganda is because of the kind of people it comes from. If you look at the credentials of the people who are at the forefront of the global warming propaganda, you will see that they are hardcore left wing socialists who resent private enterprise.

Global warming is just the front to hinder development of industrial infrastructure.

If someone uses the term "Climate Change" I am all ears to it. It is just a cycle that we are going through. The earth is switching poles. The climate may get warmer in the years to come. Sea levels may rise. But, then it will be ice-age again. If you look at the evolution of earth, you will see this pattern.

 

[priti]

Yes, Vikas, CNG has made a lot of difference and hopefully, Delhi will be world class city in near future, and for this very reason we need to talk about these things...I think among all the cities in India, Delhi has done far better in terms of creating infrastructure in a very short span of time...its all commendable and thanks to Dikshit for getting some world city issues to delhi....still a big scope for improvement....

Should we be limited to Delhi? I would be inclined to ask Deepender (although his constituency would probably be very small) what his plans are about environmental norms in haryana...maybe they are alreayd in place...its very significant part of opening your borders to industry and letting them know that you would not tolerate lax environmental standards...

I would agree to you PRiti di But i would differ on the note that we are not doing anything..

For instance, when it came to pollution then we did implement CNG, and trust me, if i can feel the difference in the Air of Delhi then it is really changing. Delhi is going more beautiful day by day.

Secondly, Boring(Digging for water) is not allowed in certain areas of South Delhi and some other parts where water level has dipped very below. This is an order passed by the court, however i do agree that corrupt officers still let it happen in a few private institutions for bribes.

People still spit on the road, inspite of dustbins on every few 100 meters.
People still urinate in open, inspite of urinals being provided by government in every major public place.

It isnt that we are not doing anything, but just that we are failing in educating people.


India and Indians have always been reactive, and not proactive as our friends in west are. We dont sense the threat before, and if somehow we get to know it then we try to ignore it by closing our eyes(most of the times)

 

[neels]

...what i said is true that environmental issues dont get discussed in India...

Hi Priti, I am following ur thread since last few days. You are right in your concern, and so is everyone. This is not so that its not discussed in India or the Indians are not aware about it. Its discussed, as well the required steps are being taken to overcome this problem. The Govt is trying its level best to tackle the environmental hazards. But the major issue is India has huge population and that is a mix of all sort. The large segment of our poplulation in uneducated or undereducated, and their living conditions are like that , that environment problems, cleanliness hardly matters to them, and hardly they understand what impact it can have in the coming times. This unawareness inturn is depleting the natural resouces, as well polluting the present atmosphere.
Such an alarming situation requires a collective action in the form of corrective measures implemented by the govt. and then conscious efforts on the part of users to maintain them. As Vikas Chaudhary has mentioned, besides being provided with garbage bins, hardly very few of us use them. The reason is deep rooted, we hadnt such facilities earlier and are in habit of littering. Thou hard, But the Bad Habits need to be changed.This is just one example, similar concern should be adopted for saving resources and keeping the environment clean. First of all we need to change ourselves, and then try to make others aware.
This calls for a conscious effort on everyone's part. Nothing will come out by blaming the Govt. or the infrastructure or each other.

 

[trueblueindian]

i donnno again that u urself have to rely to every thing and u want others to just stick to the topic.....WHY

Dear priti ji its ok... i can easily rely to all your eye brow raised answers but again i dont find a reason to do so..... well i guess the topic was of world enviorment and not only indian enviorment.....

Vikas its only that white shirt abb kaali nahi hotti.... but more or less pollution levels have not gone much down... though one gud thing is that the increase in pollution level has gone doown drasticallly... and that in itself is an achivement..

Priti ji....... i dont care u agree or not but indeed properly done havans (mass activity) help purify enviorment and use of uplas had also prooved enviorment friendly... lastely sarso key tael ka diya bhi bade kaam ki cheez hai... soorma for ankh and purification of air..... and i said that coz these practices were and are still followed in this country..... and if u are blaming industrilisation for bad enviorment then only thing is world stops these activities... and return to stone age... is that possible.... man has allways progressed and would do so in future ..... no one can stop the ever developing and ever progressing human mind....

seee if one interprets all these things as suggested by you thers absolutely nothing wrong in it but we just cant avoid these damages.... we can and we should really controlll litter and all that but thats not wy enviorment is degrading its all thanx to industrial waste whn tonnes of toxic chemicals and other harming stuff goes into rivers and earth.... thats the main cause and it could not be avoided as on date..

If u arent aware even in delhi some zones have distributed waste management system in place where bio - degradable and non bio degradable waste is seprated and treated accordingly and this system is in place for more than 2 years now..

as pointed out by Dr. neelam population is other key factor to this problem.... but then if we see it on global scale india must not be throwig more than 1-2 % of the total pollution.... if u have figuers priti ji.... plz share

 

[rraajjeevv]

There is a lot that the developed nations have to do first before asking the poorer countries. The main cause of global warming is the emission of carbon dioxide. According to this website (http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/national_carbon_dioxide_co2_emissions_per_capita), India lies way below the developed countries. For example on per capita basis USA emit 20 times more, Australia 18, Canada 14, Norway 11, Germany/Japan 9 times.
Coming to population, the overall population of India may be high but the population density of India is about 336 per square kilometer which is less than countries like Japan, Taiwan, SOuth Korea, etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density). I am sure India can sustain a higher population. India has always been highly populated compared to other counrties for the last few thousand years.

If you try and find the data on the generation of waste per household I am sure that figure for India would again be miniscule compared to the developed countries.

What i would like to say is that agreed India needs to do more for the environment, but then there are other countries who lecture us on environment to do a lot more themselves before asking us. First and foremost India needs to be able to provide a decent standard of life to its citizens.

BTW, you can do more for the environment if you switch off your appliances from the mains (including your computer monitors) rather than use your remote to switch it off or put it in stand by.

 

[priti]

Thats right Rajeev, I agree with you on per capita carbon emissions. India's per capita carbon emission is 1/6th of the world average (with a population poor or below poverty line which uses only biomass for fuel...so that helps in these figures). Despite this, it is among the top ten countries in contributing to greenhouse gases. This share is only bound to grown in future (as the population is upwardly mobile economically) and this gives serious reasons to pay heed.

For those who are interested to find out more on the , these are three sites to visit (linked with sustainable development):

Newly formed committee on climate change, ministry of environment:
http://envfor.nic.in/cc/youth.htm

TERI:
http://static.teriin.org/climate/climate.htm (see viewpoints too)

CSE:
http://www.cseindia.org/programme/geg/wssd_index.htm

Best
Priti

There is a lot that the developed nations have to do first before asking the poorer countries. The main cause of global warming is the emission of carbon dioxide. According to this website (http://maps.grida.no/go/graphic/national_carbon_dioxide_co2_emissions_per_capita), India lies way below the developed countries. For example on per capita basis USA emit 20 times more, Australia 18, Canada 14, Norway 11, Germany/Japan 9 times.
Coming to population, the overall population of India may be high but the population density of India is about 336 per square kilometer which is less than countries like Japan, Taiwan, SOuth Korea, etc (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density). I am sure India can sustain a higher population. India has always been highly populated compared to other counrties for the last few thousand years.

If you try and find the data on the generation of waste per household I am sure that figure for India would again be miniscule compared to the developed countries.

What i would like to say is that agreed India needs to do more for the environment, but then there are other countries who lecture us on environment to do a lot more themselves before asking us. First and foremost India needs to be able to provide a decent standard of life to its citizens.

BTW, you can do more for the environment if you switch off your appliances from the mains (including your computer monitors) rather than use your remote to switch it off or put it in stand by.

 

[rraajjeevv]

Thats right Rajeev, I agree with you on per capita carbon emissions. India's per capita carbon emission is 1/6th of the world average (with a population poor or below poverty line which uses only biomass for fuel...so that helps in these figures). Despite this, it is among the top ten countries in contributing to greenhouse gases. This share is only bound to grown in future (as the population is upwardly mobile economically) and this gives serious reasons to pay heed.
Best
Priti

It is wrong to assume that burning of biomass does not contribute to greenhouse gases. In fact that is the most inefficient approach to using energy. Moreover, cattles are also responsible for greenhouse gases by contributing to methane in the atmosphere. Cow 'emissions' more damaging to planet than CO2 from cars. If you search google on cattle+greenhouse you will come across numerous such sources.
You wrote overall India is among the top ten countries in contributing to greenhouse gases. Would not it be foolish to look at the overall contribution instead of what a single India contributes to global warming? That is unless you want us to shoot overselves in our foot or maybe you regard four Indians equal to a single foreigner. In the matters of national interest I appreciate the CHinese approach, they do not give a damn what the world thinks about their actions. They do whatever is in their national interests. Even Canada does not give a damn when animal protestors complain about annual culling of hundreds of thousand of innocent seals ( i believ it was 300,000 last time)

I am not advocating that India should not worry about the future environmental distaster. There are simple things that we can do. For example how many petrol stations in India do not sell adulterated fuel. I would say there would not be any. Fuel adulteration not only increases co2 emission it also damages the engines. And what about the condition of the roads? DOes not those need improving? Or you might just argue fewer roads mean fewer vehicles and lesser greanhouse emissions. And voila, we are safe from global warming.

 

[priti]

Thats what I wrote...that a single indian contributes less but on an aggregate the country's contribution is among top ten...am I missing something?

You are right...issues are everywhere...but they get discussed with a far more intensity ....anyway it depends on what the priorities are of a particular nation...i'm not making comparisons or passing judgments...just an observation...

Very nice example of petrol stations...I hope that people on this site who own a petrol pump would read this.

In addition to what individuals can do to reduce the unnatural pace of climate change, a big responsibility also lies on government and corporations. The good thing is governments and corporations are also made up of individuals...who can listen, think and act....everyone in their own capacity can act...employed people can ask their companies what their environmental policies are (the issues differ from sector to sector...for example, software companies would not have to deal with environmental issues in a major way as manufacturing companies), enterpreneurs can see that their operations do not create a huge waste, consumers have the biggest influence...they can chose to buy from companies that have sound environmental policies, practcies and products....so I think a whole lifecycle approach embracing all parts of life might be taken...and this is just one issue of our lifetimes , there many others....

You wrote overall India is among the top ten countries in contributing to greenhouse gases. Would not it be foolish to look at the overall contribution instead of what a single India contributes to global warming?

Even Canada does not give a damn when animal protestors complain about annual culling of hundreds of thousand of innocent seals ( i believ it was 300,000 last time)

I am not advocating that India should not worry about the future environmental distaster. There are simple things that we can do. For example how many petrol stations in India do not sell adulterated fuel. I would say there would not be any. Fuel adulteration not only increases co2 emission it also damages the engines. And what about the condition of the roads? DOes not those need improving? Or you might just argue fewer roads mean fewer vehicles and lesser greanhouse emissions. And voila, we are safe from global warming.

 

[shailendra]

...Hmmm, a very good and productive discussion[on one extremely 'hot' topic] Priti!

I wonder how I missed it as it seems to have been around for more than a couple of days here I see! (must be because of the title and initial intent of the thread which was about the Al Gore movie...I am sure I would not have side stepped it if it screamed ‘Global Warming’ in the first place! Reminds me though; I still need to watch that movie!)…

Chalo daer aaye dursut aaye….though I think I am gonna wait, collect my thoughts before posting and/or jumping into a discussion that is apparently already doing very-very well indeed, [and therefore avoid ending up sounding like I don’t know my monsoons and snowflakes!]

But my quick thoughts before exiting? It is obviously not something that has one straight shot answer or single way to counter act the obvious digression of the climate happening everywhere. But be warned; It is also painfully and increasingly becoming apparent that it would require some real pro-active moves by everyone (individually) on this planet to start making a difference bit by bit!

Anyways, like I mentioned; it is definitely becoming a very interesting read here…(I specially liked the one about the plans on acquiring an Army Humvee; especially since the more rugged stripped down H1 Hummer is definitely more expensive than the commercial H2 Hummer! …but really, more than that I guess it was the use of a the word ‘Hummer’ and ‘climate’ all in the same place that dropped me off my chair! Ah well…)

Anyways, before exiting this post (and I hope to be back with more discussions hopefully on this) here are a couple of cartoons on this weird climate conditions of our Earth that I saw somewhere and posting here for everyone to enjoy!

 

[priti]

Welcome to the thread! and thanks for putting the cartoonist's lens on the topic...very subtle and very effective...

Looking forward to your views here....

...Hmmm, a very good and productive discussion[on one extremely 'hot' topic] Priti!

I wonder how I missed it as it seems to have been around for more than a couple of days here I see! (must be because of the title and initial intent of the thread which was about the Al Gore movie...I am sure I would not have side stepped it if it screamed ‘Global Warming’ in the first place! Reminds me though; I still need to watch that movie!)…

Chalo daer aaye dursut aaye….though I think I am gonna wait, collect my thoughts before posting and/or jumping into a discussion that is apparently already doing very-very well indeed, [and therefore avoid ending up sounding like I don’t know my monsoons and snowflakes!]

But my quick thoughts before exiting? It is obviously not something that has one straight shot answer or single way to counter act the obvious digression of the climate happening everywhere. But be warned; It is also painfully and increasingly becoming apparent that it would require some real pro-active moves by everyone (individually) on this planet to start making a difference bit by bit!

Anyways, like I mentioned; it is definitely becoming a very interesting read here…(I specially liked the one about the plans on acquiring an Army Humvee; especially since the more rugged stripped down H1 Hummer is definitely more expensive than the commercial H2 Hummer! …but really, more than that I guess it was the use of a the word ‘Hummer’ and ‘climate’ all in the same place that dropped me off my chair! Ah well…)

Anyways, before exiting this post (and I hope to be back with more discussions hopefully on this) here are a couple of cartoons on this weird climate conditions of our Earth that I saw somewhere and posting here for everyone to enjoy!

 

[priti]

the reason for saying that use of biomass as fuel helps India's figures is not to say that it does not emit CO2 but that it doesn't get counted because of its unmetered use...

the household waste also does not get numbered as its disposal is random...maybe not in big cities anymore...

the random waste disposal is displayed ...if one happen to go to hill stations or where there has been a landslide of any proportion...one can see plastic between layers of soil....very unhealthy for nature....these are but little things which can be observed...

according to the given figures of per capita CO2 (the UNEP graph)...India is actually at no. 5! (and growing) in total CO2 emissions after US, China, Russia and Japan in that order if you just multiply the per capita with their respective populations...

As suggested by Sandesh, it could actually be a good idea to go back to some traditional technologies selectively....like climate control houses we used to have in the villages with 'Gaj' and 'obras'. New architectectural solutions anybody....Shailendra...

Folks from the US need to worry the most!! their per capita as well as aggregate CO2 contribution is way higher than anybody.....approximate figures:

US: 298*20 = 5960
China: 1313*2.2 = 2888
Russia: 143*10 = 1430
Japan: 127*9.5 = 1206
India: 1095*1.1 = 1204

As Neelam said, the population factor definitely plays in any discussion regarding India, imagine if with 1.1 per capita average, India is number 5, what will happen when this increases (and it is increasing for sure....among the top 5 its only US which has a decreasing average at the moment...maybe even Japan but I doubt it)...

Thats right Rajeev, I agree with you on per capita carbon emissions. India's per capita carbon emission is 1/6th of the world average (with a population poor or below poverty line which uses only biomass for fuel...so that helps in these figures). Despite this, it is among the top ten countries in contributing to greenhouse gases. This share is only bound to grown in future (as the population is upwardly mobile economically) and this gives serious reasons to pay heed.