Selling Haryana to outsiders

[delhione]

dont catch the fish and feed somebody, teach him how to catch the fish !!!!

i think the only solution is the quality education. unless we compel the government to focus on education be it elementary, technical, professional etc. nothing can be done to change the poor conditions of uninformed haryana people and especially the JATs. those among us consider education as important and arrange for it through their own resources are doing exceedingly well in society, a few examples are right here present in this thread.

all of us must agreee that as a matter of right we can not ask for being a part of develoed capitalist society that would be unjustified, the capitalists tilt the policies in their favour because most of the decision making done at govt level, the capitalists have a major say in those decisions by the use of their super power of cash & kinds and the uninformed man goes unheard. for example , as we do at the local or family level that generally the uneducated ( even though experienced ) are barred from a say while deciding over something. at local level a rich man's saying is important even though he is uneducated, and only other man richer than him or a informed and educated man can challege that.

so my point is that, instead of seeking assistance from govt for protecting the rights of poor and downtrodden haryana people we must equip them with such capabilities where they can judge and take their welfare decisions on their own in this rapidly changing world. if we depend on the govt then it would be like catching fish and feeding a hungry man... instead of this teach that man how to catch the fish and problem is solved.

 

[skadian123]

Selling off Haryana/Jatland to outsiders

I could not have agreed more with my fellow learned member Yashpal Singh Antil when he says that we need to teach people to fish rather than serve them fish on a platter. The people need to be self reliant instead of relying on government support.

Taking this analogy further, I would just like to say that when the pond size is small with limited number of fish and people from other ponds come to fish at your pond, it is better to tell them that your pond size is small with limited number of fish hardly sufficient for your own people. Hence, it is better that they fish in their own ponds. If you allow anyone and everyone from outside to fish in your pond, your own people will have no fish left to fish even if you teach them fishing....

 

[ssindhu]

Development and capitalism is must, there is no doubt here, but point of view of kadian and dayanand ji and rohit have raised an honest future problem. I think a minimum of 50% reservation for haryanva domicile (with all due respect for UP and rajasthan jats) in all huda plots would be immediatley require to check this.

Regards

i strongly condemn this view of reservation in jobs...reservation is one of the prime root prpblems in the system machinery. How can you imagine a rustic guy speaking in a pastoral manner with global fabric visting in malls in Gurgaon?, some similar condidtions Bal Thackeray kept for Maha...

Let the deserved get the job, no domicile act plz

 

[ssindhu]

Bal Thackre's call "Maharashtra for Maharashtrians" set whole Bombay state afire in 1960. Similar call is needed in Haryana. Faridabad looks to be totally filled with Biharis and others. All around Delhi Jats are being squeezed in Haryana and UP. But as compared to UP Haryanvi Jats are more affected because on 3 sides Delhi is surrounded by Haryana.

mistaken notions buddy and sheer misinformation...faridabad has a cosmopolitan texture, not mere biharis. Moreover, it is one of the best advance districts in Haryana...prosperous by all means and the strongest financial disc of haryana's economy after gurgaon

 

[ssindhu]

anyone of you plz cite a single country which has flourished on agricultural economy?

 

[desijat]

i strongly condemn this view of reservation in jobs...reservation is one of the prime root prpblems in the system machinery. How can you imagine a rustic guy speaking in a pastoral manner with global fabric visting in malls in Gurgaon?, some similar condidtions Bal Thackeray kept for Maha...

Let the deserved get the job, no domicile act plz

I agree with Seema's view

Not only that any country has not flourished on agri-based economy but also no country has grown with reservation system

 

[solankimk]

not again...tired of this provincial mentality. cosmopolitan fabric of a city or state is the first sign of advancement, what's the harm if we have biharis, bengalis etc besides jats. I don't find if any other cast CM surges in haryana.

seema
you are diveting the mood of thread. his basic question is that what will happen to these states after 30-40 yr. where people could not find land peace of land for antim sanskar --------------------------------------

 

[ssindhu]

If situation continues like this then Jats of Haryana will become like Jats of Delhi. Faridabad ka haal to aur bhi bura hai. Delhi for thousands of years was known for Jats but now they are diluted, dissolved and in a pitiable condition.

Sindh was known for Jats controlling major land and ports/trade over there. India was known Sone ki Chidiya not because of Kolar mines but due to the Gold through trade. Now percentage of Jats in Sindh is like Delhi.

If soon some suitable measures are not taken then Haryana will become another Delhi/Sindh for Jats.

delhi jats are still better equipped to embrace the fair life means as compare to many in haryana...and i personally know many jats whose land got sold recently and everybody is more than happy about it. delhi and NCR jats are the most prosperous by all means

but this acquistion seems to be a trouble in other regions...probabaly some political incitement or they don't know how to invest the money futher...now this comes with education and receptiveness to learn for postive changes

 

[ssindhu]

seema
you are diveting the mood of thread. his basic question is that what will happen to these states after 30-40 yr. where people could not find land peace of land for antim sanskar --------------------------------------

electric burials will be the best way in that case...and i will be happy to be burried that way...lesser pollution over some dead carcass

 

[desijat]

seema
you are diveting the mood of thread. his basic question is that what will happen to these states after 30-40 yr. where people could not find land peace of land for antim sanskar --------------------------------------

If developed countries, who got industrialised heavily can find space to bury their dead ones, we just need some space to burn ourselves

Eitherways, if we dont get industries in, we are already burning ourselves.

We give a large hue and cry to the governments saying govt. is not providing us jobs but just imagine from where will the jobs come? Untill we see some industrilization happening jobs will not arise and specially in a country like India where half of the population is uneducated and cant do anything besides labour work, it makes more sense

 

[skadian123]

Selling of Haryana/Jatland to outsiders

Once again all of us have our own point of view and have every right to do so.

Jatland/Jat belt has been a prosperous region since time immemorable. The major reason for that has been that Jats are a hard working, perseverant and a resilient community. The community has the knowhow and has been creating wealth out of land at the same time feeding the general populace residing far and near. Then came industrialisation which started a wild goose chase by a handful of powerful people for hoarding and accumulating as much resources including land as far as possible by ways and means which could be fair or unfair (mostly unfair as used by the builder lobby hands in gloves with the state government). Well that's good - development has taken place. We have better amenities in terms of highend living spaces and workplaces. Again nothing wrong with that.. rather all good so far.

Then comes the point when you donot have local skilled manpower in the state who can work in those swanky offices and as a result the unskilled local populace cannot afford to live in those highend living spaces. Unfortunately for Haryanvis/Jats, the government does not care if proper education system is in place, the NGOs (except for a few like JJ) are almost non-existent and public awareness is scant.

Jats are happy by getting truckloads of money by selling their land. After that, they buy long luxury cars, wear thick gold chains and life is a party every evening till the time the pond of money dries up. What next - Land is gone, children not educated (as they thought enough money is there to last a lifetime - hence not well qualified) and of course no reservation. Options available - drive a cab, man the security desk at an MNC having office on the same land or if a little lucky with some left over money open up a property dealer shop (helping others also to make some fast and easy money by selling their ancestral land).

How do we define development - Selling land?? Can we not become doctors/ engineers, software professional etc without selling our lands. We have the builder lobby building up huge land banks. - unfortunately our state is going through a crisis but we donot have a Medha Patekar. It is also an irony that it is not our elected representatives' job to see that our resources are best being utilised for the benefit of sons of the soil.

THE AUTHOR WOULD STRONGLY ADVISE FELLOW MEMBERS TO READ THE BOOK- 'WHO MOVED MY CHEESE'. As a community we need to anticipate what are the challenges we are to face and how to turn them into opportunities. If the Government of Haryana does not care for its people, surely the Government of Bihar, Bengal or Tamil Nadu would NOT and we as a community donot have a collective voice which commands the respect to be heard by one and all in the seats of power.

Lets not justify migration from outside just for the sake of this false notion of development. As they say time and tide wait for none and for sure time is passing away.

We strongly identify with our community/race and that is the reason we are members of Jatland and not some Bihariland or Bengaliland. One thing that keeps quizzing our minds is - How do we awaken this great community of ours which is in deep slumber (sleep). PLEASE WAKE UP AND TAKE STOCK/CHARGE OF THINGS BEFORE ITS TOO LATE......

Bring about a silent revolution - a revolution of minds, a revolution of people, a revolution of peace and prosperity of the indigenous people, by the indigenous people and for the indigenous people.

-----------------------------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

 

[sidchhikara]

I would like to reiterate what I said in my earlier post on this subject.

1) No government involvement in land acquisition. Direct interaction between buyer and seller. To be honest I see a problem in this also - because the seller may be ignorant about the real market value of his/her land - from the point of view that the land maybe worth billions of dollars in a few years. Right now 70 lakh for an acre may seem like a jackpot to our farmers, but believe me, in India it is a pittance. I believe an incremental lease agreement would be a better option. If Reliance wants the land - let them pay through their nose - they have enough money.

2) No government involvement and regulation in education and vocational training. This will ensure that demand and supply of relevant education and training is market-driven. This will ensure that the locals are available at all levels of labor.

3) Adivise to farmers to invest.

Right now... a professional investment / real estate evaluation business in Haryana would be a good idea........ ant IIM / ISB etc etc grads listening?? I am thinking I might start my own... no joke!

 

[solankimk]

Once again all of us have our own point of view and have every right to do so.

Jatland/Jat belt has been a prosperous region since time immemorable. The major reason for that has been that Jats are a hard working, perseverant and a resilient community. The community has the knowhow and has been creating wealth out of land at the same time feeding the general populace residing far and near. Then came industrialisation which started a wild goose chase by a handful of powerful people for hoarding and accumulating as much resources including land as far as possible by ways and means which could be fair or unfair (mostly unfair as used by the builder lobby hands in gloves with the state government). Well that's good - development has taken place. We have better amenities in terms of highend living spaces and workplaces. Again nothing wrong with that.. rather all good so far.

Then comes the point when you donot have local skilled manpower in the state who can work in those swanky offices and as a result the unskilled local populace cannot afford to live in those highend living spaces. Unfortunately for Haryanvis/Jats, the government does not care if proper education system is in place, the NGOs (except for a few like JJ) are almost non-existent and public awareness is scant.

Jats are happy by getting truckloads of money by selling their land. After that, they buy long luxury cars, wear thick gold chains and life is a party every evening till the time the pond of money dries up. What next - Land is gone, children not educated (as they thought enough money is there to last a lifetime - hence not well qualified) and of course no reservation. Options available - drive a cab, man the security desk at an MNC having office on the same land or if a little lucky with some left over money open up a property dealer shop (helping others also to make some fast and easy money by selling their ancestral land).

How do we define development - Selling land?? Can we not become doctors/ engineers, software professional etc without selling our lands. We have the builder lobby building up huge land banks. - unfortunately our state is going through a crisis but we donot have a Medha Patekar. It is also an irony that it is not our elected representatives' job to see that our resources are best being utilised for the benefit of sons of the soil.

THE AUTHOR WOULD STRONGLY ADVISE FELLOW MEMBERS TO READ THE BOOK- 'WHO MOVED MY CHEESE'. As a community we need to anticipate what are the challenges we are to face and how to turn them into opportunities. If the Government of Haryana does not care for its people, surely the Government of Bihar, Bengal or Tamil Nadu would NOT and we as a community donot have a collective voice which commands the respect to be heard by one and all in the seats of power.

Lets not justify migration from outside just for the sake of this false notion of development. As they say time and tide wait for none and for sure time is passing away.

We strongly identify with our community/race and that is the reason we are members of Jatland and not some Bihariland or Bengaliland. One thing that keeps quizzing our minds is - How do we awaken this great community of ours which is in deep slumber (sleep). PLEASE WAKE UP AND TAKE STOCK/CHARGE OF THINGS BEFORE ITS TOO LATE......

Bring about a silent revolution - a revolution of minds, a revolution of people, a revolution of peace and prosperity of the indigenous people, by the indigenous people and for the indigenous people.

-----------------------------------
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.

very correct . i support your views

 

[ssindhu]

the pond of money never dries for the wise, and those who are not wise will starve and die in any case...and let them...better for them and better for rest of the world.

I completely agree with sidharth that they need to look how and where to invest...and that what i meant that as delhi jats have managed to survive this land acquisition because they were equpped to do so...they are more than happy since they have started their own small and medium size businesses, besides that they say that theough investments, the interests on the money itself comes out to be more than what they used to garner from farming...

other regions farmers need to just stop thinking all those orthodox means of living...just utilise your brain alittle and you will find way

 

[ssindhu]

medha patkar doesn't fit into this scene, she fights for tribes, jats are not tribe, they can do more than menial labouring. the regions we are talking here fall in semi-urban areas and people educate their kids here, they are no tribe kids who wake up, drudge and sleep...

but if this attitude of people continues, the day is not far that jats will fall to this bloody tribal status

 

[gauravgu]

the pond of money never dries for the wise, and those who are not wise will starve and die in any case...and let them...better for them and better for rest of the world.

I completely agree with sidharth that they need to look how and where to invest...and that what i meant that as delhi jats have managed to survive this land acquisition because they were equpped to do so...they are more than happy since they have started their own small and medium size businesses, besides that they say that theough investments, the interests on the money itself comes out to be more than what they used to garner from farming...

other regions farmers need to just stop thinking all those orthodox means of living...just utilise your brain alittle and you will find way

I totally agree with you Ms Seema...''the pond of money never dries for the wise, and those who are not wise will starve and die in any case"...
however I beg to differ on the point let them suffer and die...The major differnece between animals and humans is the sense of cooperation and socialisation...Instead of let unwise suffer..why not to teach them and make them also wise..I also agree that it is a little difficult...however I pesonally think we need to take them along with us..

Regarding investment..for short term...its ok..however have you ever thought of long term effects...in long term the results are not as fruitful...

and Money is NOT the only factor for starting the business..U can take example of Dhirubhai,Sunil Mittal, the dabbawala and other entrepreneurs...It is the idea and the execution part which is more important...

Also, U know its not so easy to get out with so many ideas at one instance...If it would have been case..India would have been a developed nation long back...

 

[ssindhu]

I totally agree with you Ms Seema...''the pond of money never dries for the wise, and those who are not wise will starve and die in any case"...
however I beg to differ on the point let them suffer and die...The major differnece between animals and humans is the sense of cooperation and socialisation...Instead of let unwise suffer..why not to teach them and make them also wise..I also agree that it is a little difficult...however I pesonally think we need to take them along with us..

Regarding investment..for short term...its ok..however have you ever thought of long term effects...in long term the results are not as fruitful...

and Money is NOT the only factor for starting the business..U can take example of Dhirubhai,Sunil Mittal, the dabbawala and other entrepreneurs...It is the idea and the execution part which is more important...

Also, U know its not so easy to get out with so many ideas at one instance...If it would have been case..India would have been a developed nation long back...

and Money is NOT the only factor for starting the business..U can take example of Dhirubhai,Sunil Mittal, the dabbawala and other entrepreneurs...It is the idea and the execution part which is more important...

that's what i meant by wise--idea only.

and see i capitulate with your view that to be concerned is a human trait...but what if people don't understand? they are not understanding even eye-seen things around. what's happening in nandigram is one example (too brutal though).

and if one doesn't understand better let them meet their fate...one wins at the cost of other's defeat...this is nature's law...can't help...

thank god i am not in red tape power, else no matter what...i wouldn't mind letting any no. of people die for the sake of country's economy upliftment...that's our future...that's what we need...

 

[gauravgu]

and Money is NOT the only factor for starting the business..U can take example of Dhirubhai,Sunil Mittal, the dabbawala and other entrepreneurs...It is the idea and the execution part which is more important...

that's what i meant by wise--idea only.

and see i capitulate with your view that to be concerned is a human trait...but what if people don't understand? they are not understanding even eye-seen things around. what's happening in nandigram is one example (too brutal though).

and if one doesn't understand better let them meet their fate...one wins at the cost of other's defeat...this is nature's law...can't help...

thank god i am not in red tape power, else no matter what...i wouldn't mind letting any no. of people die for the sake of country's economy upliftment...that's our future...that's what we need...

Dear Seema,

These are the new ideas which are being generated from the pople who get easy money (by selling their land), once they have surplus of money

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repo...MDQwMw==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

If this is the idea generation, then I am sorry, we are not going anywhere...
My point is let everyone grow and prosper...
If people are resistent to change, and the change is +ve, we need to make them understand and carry along with us...

 

[ssindhu]

Dear Seema,

These are the new ideas which are being generated from the pople who get easy money (by selling their land), once they have surplus of money

http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repo...MDQwMw==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

If this is the idea generation, then I am sorry, we are not going anywhere...
My point is let everyone grow and prosper...
If people are resistent to change, and the change is +ve, we need to make them understand and carry along with us...

i know buddy...but you are again and again neglecting my point (intentionally/unintentionally), which is that such pompous people even if they don't have money, will splurge in any case...

i have seen people who don't have lands and neither they have sold anything, yet they will borrow money and splurge on unnecessary things...

i remember i had gone to a collegemate's wedding, and i was awstruck looking at the reception extravanza...a year later, i got to meet the guy riding his pregnant wife on bike in market...and i was thinking inside that if he had bought a car rather wasting so much of money on feeding 1000s of people in such splendid pandaal, his wife won't be facing this difficulty on riding on bike adjusting her baby bump...

so buddy, those who don't have brain will splurge in any case...keep aside land selling

 

[solankimk]

i know buddy...but you are again and again neglecting my point (intentionally/unintentionally), which is that such pompous people even if they don't have money, will splurge in any case...

i have seen people who don't have lands and neither they have sold anything, yet they will borrow money and splurge on unnecessary things...

i remember i had gone to a collegemate's wedding, and i was awstruck looking at the reception extravanza...a year later, i got to meet the guy riding his pregnant wife on bike in market...and i was thinking inside that if he had bought a car rather wasting so much of money on feeding 1000s of people in such splendid pandaal, his wife won't be facing this difficulty on riding on bike adjusting her baby bump...

so buddy, those who don't have brain will splurge in any case...keep aside land selling

Seema agreed fully with you but it is little different from the thread anyway confirm few point
1. he had car or not?
2. are they going to come congested area near to their residence with few hundred meter