Retired Defence Personnel Arrested

[bls31]

Some Excerpts from the postings on reportmysignal blog

SCPC: Armed Forces Pay

Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/ note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra's grandfather. As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That's enough proof as to who is really more capable. Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them …

@@@@@

Regrettably, the recommendations of the bureaucracy, as represented by the Committee of Secretaries that was constituted to harmonise the SCPC, selectively distorted the final pay scales to the detriment of the armed forces in relation to the paramilitary forces. These distortions at the Lieutenant Colonel and equivalent level have immediate operational implications and these were brought to the notice of the Ministry of Defence in late-August. But from the pattern of events it is evident that the Defence Minister was not apprised of the enormity of the bureaucratic insensitivity. Why the Committee of Secretaries came to this decision is intriguing and merits scrutiny at the highest political level

@@@@@

The inter-cadre implication of this revision of pay bands is that a Commandant of the Border Security Force and the Coast Guard who till now was deemed to be junior to a Lt. Colonel and a Naval Commander — they wear similar rank badges — will not only receive a much higher pay but will have legitimate reason to consider himself to be senior to his military counterparts. The current operational directives to the Indian military envisage that the three armed forces of the nation are the lead services and that in times of war, the paramilitary and the Coast Guard will function under the unified command of the military.

The SCPC anomalies will distort this carefully arrived-at inter-cadre hierarchy. And, given the ongoing low-intensity conflict and the operational tasking of the Indian Army, the BSF and the Central Reserve Police Force in internal security, serious operational imbalances will invariably occur. Furthermore, personnel below officer rank (PBOR) who were given a certain index towards pension benefits to retire at a relatively early age of 35 to 45 years, now have this modest advantage withdrawn. The SCPC recommended that they be inducted laterally into government service and that hence the weightage of early retirement be reduced. But the final recommendations reduced the pension benefits even without there being any policy decision to induct laterally ex-military personnel into government jobs.


Once again without comments BLS

Whine List​

· Lt Cols are in Pay Band 3, lower than their counterparts in police and paramilitary.
· Armed forces officers have lower grade pay than civilians.
· Lt Gens left out of higher administrative grade while their civilian counterparts have been included.
· Pension of persons below

 

[sachinb]

Brigedier sahab, its a matter for shame for the whole nation that defence personnel have to come and explain what they deserve,,,,,,,,,,

I dont know why Media is keeping silence on this subject and no political leader is coming out in the defence of you Fauzis who are ready to sacrifice,,,,,,

I got really upset when in this thread some body commented that army is a volunteerily service so why this demand and special treatment,,,,,,,,bhai every service is volunteerily service in India as of date and due respect should be given befitting the role performed by them

Fauz kamjor pad gayi na,,,,,pher dekhiyo kisi volunteerily service,,,,,,koye dushman aake BANDHUA MAZDOOR ki dhaala kaam karvaega,,,,,pher batayio aapne is logic ne

Some Excerpts from the postings on reportmysignal blog

SCPC: Armed Forces Pay

Let not someone say that the IAS and IPS exams are tougher and hence the quality of the officers better. An exam at the age of 24 has to be tougher than one at the age of 16. The taxpaying citizen is not interested in your essay/ note writing capabilities or whether you know Cleopatra's grandfather. As a citizen I always see the army being called to hold the pants of the civil services and the police and never the other way round. That's enough proof as to who is really more capable. Also recall the insensitive statements made by the IG Meerut in the Aarushi case and the Home Secretary after the blasts. Further, when the IAS and IPS hopefuls are sleeping, eating and studying, their school mates, who have joined the army, stand vigil on the borders to make it possible for them …

@@@@@

Regrettably, the recommendations of the bureaucracy, as represented by the Committee of Secretaries that was constituted to harmonise the SCPC, selectively distorted the final pay scales to the detriment of the armed forces in relation to the paramilitary forces. These distortions at the Lieutenant Colonel and equivalent level have immediate operational implications and these were brought to the notice of the Ministry of Defence in late-August. But from the pattern of events it is evident that the Defence Minister was not apprised of the enormity of the bureaucratic insensitivity. Why the Committee of Secretaries came to this decision is intriguing and merits scrutiny at the highest political level

@@@@@

The inter-cadre implication of this revision of pay bands is that a Commandant of the Border Security Force and the Coast Guard who till now was deemed to be junior to a Lt. Colonel and a Naval Commander — they wear similar rank badges — will not only receive a much higher pay but will have legitimate reason to consider himself to be senior to his military counterparts. The current operational directives to the Indian military envisage that the three armed forces of the nation are the lead services and that in times of war, the paramilitary and the Coast Guard will function under the unified command of the military.

The SCPC anomalies will distort this carefully arrived-at inter-cadre hierarchy. And, given the ongoing low-intensity conflict and the operational tasking of the Indian Army, the BSF and the Central Reserve Police Force in internal security, serious operational imbalances will invariably occur. Furthermore, personnel below officer rank (PBOR) who were given a certain index towards pension benefits to retire at a relatively early age of 35 to 45 years, now have this modest advantage withdrawn. The SCPC recommended that they be inducted laterally into government service and that hence the weightage of early retirement be reduced. But the final recommendations reduced the pension benefits even without there being any policy decision to induct laterally ex-military personnel into government jobs.


Once again without comments BLS

Whine List​

· Lt Cols are in Pay Band 3, lower than their counterparts in police and paramilitary.
· Armed forces officers have lower grade pay than civilians.
· Lt Gens left out of higher administrative grade while their civilian counterparts have been included.
· Pension of persons below

 

[cooljat]

Bhaisaab, Cant agree more !!! ..

Brigedier sahab, its a matter for shame for the whole nation that defence personnel have to come and explain what they deserve,,,,,,,,,,

I dont know why Media is keeping silence on this subject and no political leader is coming out in the defence of you Fauzis who are ready to sacrifice,,,,,,

I got really upset when in this thread some body commented that army is a volunteerily service so why this demand and special treatment,,,,,,,,bhai every service is volunteerily service in India as of date and due respect should be given befitting the role performed by them

Fauz kamjor pad gayi na,,,,,pher dekhiyo kisi volunteerily service,,,,,,koye dushman aake BANDHUA MAZDOOR ki dhaala kaam karvaega,,,,,pher batayio aapne is logic ne

 

[rajpawariya]

Dear Brothers,
Don,t get swayed with emotional speeches and agitations of these retd fajui officers. you may not not be aware of their misdeeds. They are shouting for izzat and status for themselves but using the name of Fauz and Fauzi. No Fauzi officer (All Three Chiefs) have raised a point about Jawans. Are you aware of that Jawan is placed at par with LDC, Havildar with UDC and Subedar Major with Primary Teacher by 6 pay commission and all Three Chiefs have welcomed these recommendations. Moreover Jawans are not allowed to represent their case. Ex-servicemen bodies are controlled by retd fauzi officers and these bodies dosen't represent whole (Real) Fauz and Fauzis. Brig sahab you can not fool everybody. Who will have sympathy and izzat for you when you people could not do justice to your own people for which had been taking Oath every year (ceremoneously). It is tit for tat, though came from unexpected quarters i.e. IAS loby. I thank them. At least they have made you to realise what is Injustice and how it pinches.Scales accepted by Chiefs for Jawans will have far reaching consequences in long run, but who bothers, once eyes are closed with SELFISHNESS & GREED. God save Bhartiya Fauz and Bharat from Indian Fauzis.
Jai Hind.

 

[bls31]

Brigedier sahab, its a matter for shame for the whole nation that defence personnel have to come and explain what they deserve,,,,,,,,,,

I dont know why Media is keeping silence on this subject and no political leader is coming out in the defence of you Fauzis who are ready to sacrifice,,,,,,

I got really upset when in this thread some body commented that army is a volunteerily service so why this demand and special treatment,,,,,,,,bhai every service is volunteerily service in India as of date and due respect should be given befitting the role performed by them

Fauz kamjor pad gayi na,,,,,pher dekhiyo kisi volunteerily service,,,,,,koye dushman aake BANDHUA MAZDOOR ki dhaala kaam karvaega,,,,,pher batayio aapne is logic ne

that is the reason I am posting the excerpts without any comments BLs

 

[rajpawariya]

Brig Sahab, Why are you worrying too much about Lt Col? Demand AVSC- III and abolish this contentious rank as Sec Lt, Pilot Offr and Actg Sub Lt were abolished. Izzat and status of Fauz will be restored. You are talking about Ex PBOR because you need them for shouting slogans at streets. Leave this point also and have only one point agenda i.e. officer, officer and officer and throw all PBORs and ask govt not to recruit PBORs.
Thanks.

 

[bls31]

I am only posting some excerpts from the Report My |Signal blog, that too without any comments by me. I do not wish to fool any one nor get into an argument. Even if one does not agree with some one, it is good to know his thinking and his point of view. BLS



Under the Sixth CPC proposal, the PBORs are to be given an opportunity for lateral entry into the paramilitary and central police forces, but they would forgo 50 per cent of their pension calculated on the basis of their last drawn pay at retirement. As the government has refused to approve the proposal for their lateral entry into the paramilitary forces, the PBORs are in a precarious situation of losing out both on re- employment and pension fronts.
@@@@

The PBORs are still being given a raw deal. It is the Jawans like pawns in a chess game prove vital for victory in combat. The PBORs (which includes JCOs and NCOs) MSP should be at least 50% of Rs 6000/ that the officers are entitled. The Defence Forces salaries need to be tailored so that the ratio of lowest to highest paid is not less than 1:5.

@@@@
How many of our leaders, political or otherwise, have a son or a daughter in the Forces, that they would ever fathom where the shoe pinches? When one daughter of a neta was kidnapped, the entire government machinery was subverted to release terrorists to get her safe release. When it comes to making provision for the pay and pension of soldiers who are committed to lay down their lives for the country, every paisa is begrudged on the grounds: “ Why do we need the Army?”

@@@@

Questions to be resolved:
1. Why One Rank One Pension (OROP) scheme, that was earlier recommended to be sanctioned by the Parliamentary Committee in 2004 has not been approved yet ?
2. Over 95% of defence personnel are compulsorily retired at the age of 35-45. Why an assured second career till the age of 60 years (as in the case of other government employees) is not granted to them through an act of Parliament ?
3. Why a civil servant (IAS) with 14 years of service gets almost double the salary compared to his defence counterpart with the same amount of experience ?
4. Why does a jawan get Rs 950 less than a police constable ?
5. Why does a defence officer after putting in 30 years of service get Rs 30 lakh less than his counter part in the civil services with same service period ?
6. Why is the year- wise edge in emoluments of defence personnel not ensured over other civil services ?
7. The concept of civilian control over the defence forces implies the control by elected representatives and not by bureaucracy. Why is the government dealing with the military through the bureaucracy, which in any case, is biase

 

[ssgoyat]

thanks buddy

Dear Brothers,
Don,t get swayed with emotional speeches and agitations of these retd fajui officers. you may not not be aware of their misdeeds. They are shouting for izzat and status for themselves but using the name of Fauz and Fauzi. No Fauzi officer (All Three Chiefs) have raised a point about Jawans. Are you aware of that Jawan is placed at par with LDC, Havildar with UDC and Subedar Major with Primary Teacher by 6 pay commission and all Three Chiefs have welcomed these recommendations. Moreover Jawans are not allowed to represent their case. Ex-servicemen bodies are controlled by retd fauzi officers and these bodies dosen't represent whole (Real) Fauz and Fauzis. Brig sahab you can not fool everybody. Who will have sympathy and izzat for you when you people could not do justice to your own people for which had been taking Oath every year (ceremoneously). It is tit for tat, though came from unexpected quarters i.e. IAS loby. I thank them. At least they have made you to realise what is Injustice and how it pinches.Scales accepted by Chiefs for Jawans will have far reaching consequences in long run, but who bothers, once eyes are closed with SELFISHNESS & GREED. God save Bhartiya Fauz and Bharat from Indian Fauzis.
Jai Hind.

would like to hear more...from both sides..

why such disparity between OFFICERS & JAWANS..i raised this point earlier also, but the samartians prefer to be silent...

officers treat them as their SLAVES....and that's how reports come of jawan shotting his officers..but samartain mis interpret it that, it was because he didn't get LEAVES in last 2 years or so..

and now they are using these same jawans for shouting them SLOGANS...??

and they compare themselves with IAS lobby, which i also explained them earlier, but brig uncle put it again to attract viewers..

viwers pls go thru this post again:
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=182514&postcount=19
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=182546&postcount=25

abb jab uniform utar chuki hai, aur common man ban gaye hain to abb inhe strange ho raha hai...

just a decade back army officer was the best paying profession....when they get in..

and now they are getting attracted to the fattier pay cheques, and quit their patrotism INBETWEEN..and chose to run out...

this is only due to changes in perks in private sector...
((eg, a fresher call centre guy, 12th pass get's more than what a retired col. used to get, before 6th pc, this is what is pinching them))

ie..

the defence forces has become a profession....n MONEY SPEAKS..

Didn't they too had better options to choose earlier, could have become doctors, lawyers, engineers, CA's, MBA's...but that time...since this defence profession was paying better...so they went there

and now when the situation has changed....they are cribbing....

as quoted by cool phool..
"No one forces people to join the military. People do so for their own reason, while they have other options open to them. "


one more questions....

liked i asked previously...

earlier we used to see jawans rising upto the rank of subedars majorly also few hony captions

but now jawans retire from jawan only, or naik or rarely havaldaar's

but this is not the case with Officer ranks

the time period for the promotion has been decreased..

and a Lt gets promoted to captain, major, Lt. col, Col n brigadior...they are assured of this carrier path..

WHY AGAIN SUCH A DISPARITY.......???

reason: jawan bharti hone ke liye to is disparity ke hote hue bhi hazaron ladke fauj me bharti hone aa jayenge....

but afsar ghat rahe hain,

isliye afsaron ko khush karo...

who bothers about jawaan???



Pls don't derail our questions on the ground that we are against such hikes..but haq sabhi ka ho...sirf OFFICER OFFICER OFFICER...ka gaana mat gao.....


http://www.jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173996&postcount=5

Please answer the above questions, rather than diverting the topic or preferring to remain silent....

 

[rajpawariya]

Brig Sahab, What was urgency to accept the recommendations made for PBORs by 6pc and the haste shown by all chiefs. Is it not smelling something wrong on their part. What will be status of PBORs economically and socially in society. Can a commander win war having herd of demoralised and malnurished Jawans. No Ex-Servicemen association, Ex-Servicemen league have raised this point and every body is raising point of officers and their parity with IAS. It is pathetic. What is lateral movement to para forces? Officers have erected every possible hurdle before PBORs which they can . I was expecting that Ex-Servicemen associations would raise issues of Fauzis in totality but to my dismay these bodies are behaving in partisan way in favour of officers.Just spare a moment and analyse where Jawan and Subedar Major stands in terms of pay and parity vis-a vis civilian counterparts.
Thanks!

 

[ssgoyat]

so finally

after three-four volumes (and 4-5 months) of

Why do i still serve the army...(OFFICER OFFICER OFFICER)

so did you raise any voice for JAWANS for a very raw deal for them in 6th pay comission..

again

who cares

we want them to shout slogans for us..


what agenda's you have for the carrier path of jawans??

like in 6~7 years a officer get's promoted from Lt. to captain, captain to major, major to Lt. col............(ALL ARE ASSURED)

whereas in jawans, even after 6 years a seply remains mostly as sepoy....or a Lance Nk rarely..


such a disparity...

one more example of this disparity:

under the new HUDA' allotment scheme of plot's for defence and paramilitary forces..

351 are the number of plot's (small plot's of 8 marla, 6 marla, and 4 marla) for PBOR'S (sepoy, Lance nayak, nayak, havaldar, nayab subeday, subedar, subedar major's ) 7 ranks....that constitutes 80 % of eligible persons

288 are the number of plot's (bigger plots of 14 & 10 marla) for (captain, major & Lt. Col), 3ranks that constitutes 10~15 % of eligible persons

How's this JUSTIFIED.....????


Jawans (PBOR'S) never get's a fair deal.

 

[rajpawariya]

Satinder Bhai,
You will never get any response from uncle Ji. He was taught in NDA, IMA, OTA and other training institutes meant for officers to treat Jawans as second class citizens and remain aloof to there needs and sentiments. First lesson of their training starts with have superiority complex and never ever share with Jawans (untouchables); accomodation, messing, transport, urinals, toilets .............etc otherwise you will be plagued. Satender Bhai, I will tell you limit of hypocracy, an officer marries Virgin but Jawan marries spinster, Officer dines in Mess, Jawan dines in langer. Todays defence officers treat Jawans in such a shabby manner that you can imagine even in dream. They act like remnants of Britishers and treat Jawans like bloody kalu indians. Nothing comes out of iron walls of military camps.Media personnels also write only officers versions as they are not permitted to meet Jawans. Have you ever came across when media have invited Jawans on their forums. We don't want to look into functioning og defence forces, thinking that it will be unnecessory intervention but it is need of hour. There is urgent need to restructure defence establishment and evaluate officer and jawan relationship in terms of structural and operational requirement in holistic way, before it is too late.

 

[ssgoyat]

for the new viewers of the thread...

it's been 4th such thread on the same topic...

why only you talk about officers officers and officers.....

brig uncle.
in the past 4~5 months i didn't hear any word from you relating to jawans...or replying to my points questioning about a common jawan...

even when i try gogling on this topic i find only the blogs written by the officer lobby for THEMSELVES only..

and here at jatland, things are same...

why it is that only Officers cribbles?

(specially the new one's who joined army in the slowdown period of 2001~2003 phase, when army was the best option.....till then......and now since the economy has changed, and their civilian counterparts are getting fatter pay cheques.......now they want to QUIT....or questions...WHY DO THEY STILL SERVE The army....???

who foced them???

if they were/are so money mindedness..

why didn;t the choose other options....because unke time me defence se accha aur koi profession (here i would use the word profession, sorry for this)

aur abb wo ro rahe hain.....even 6th pay commison ke baad bhi

a new officer is now getting more than 33K (free housing, electicity, free or highly subsided ration (milk, butter, eggs, veggs, subsidised CSD (you get 30~40 % discount,free heath care facility (covering all major to major operations, but some officers are also using cosmetic surgeries), 20 Laks insurance, free AC train warrants & air passes, 3 months leave, prominnent club memberships (horse riding, swimming, golf, ...)
seats in prominent B-schools, IIM, MDI, Symboisis etc..
and most importantly....the retirement pension....jiske liye log sarkar naukari pakadte hain

no monthly target's to kill terrorists ....
no fear to get fired (or get paid less) if they get short in this monthly target...
or if the army falls short in their yearly target...& annual turnover...


the cost to new entry level officer works out to be more than 50K (and for A class cities like delhi, banglore, mumbai, pune.....isko workout kiya gaya to....chalo ye kaam aap hi karke bata dena..), and you also better know this fact

unlike their civilain counterparts (who can be fired out of job anytime, deadlines, pressures, targets, no fix time to go office and coming back)(house rent 11K (for the same kind of 3BHK flat that a young army officer used to get, electricity 2K,hefty school fee's for kids.......etc.etc.etc...)


Now pls don't divert topic ki JnK me aa ke dekho , ya un necassary sentimental statements ...i'm here talking about (like my previous posts also) the non-figting wing officers, who are sitting idle,with no productivity and availing five star facilities ..............and still CRIBBING.....and want them to paid like, what A and A+ MBA schools passout grads..

and finaly the closing lines:
the choice was yours, that time.....and too you had options at that time also.........but hawa ke saath rukkh badalna acchi baat nahi...kush rehna seekho...santosh ka fal meetha hota hai..like your retirement pension

 

[ssgoyat]

Satinder Bhai,
You will never get any response from uncle Ji. He was taught in NDA, IMA, OTA and other training institutes meant for officers to treat Jawans as second class citizens and remain aloof to there needs and sentiments. First lesson of their training starts with have superiority complex and never ever share with Jawans (untouchables); accomodation, messing, transport, urinals, toilets .............etc otherwise you will be plagued. Satender Bhai, I will tell you limit of hypocracy, an officer marries Virgin but Jawan marries spinster, Officer dines in Mess, Jawan dines in langer. Todays defence officers treat Jawans in such a shabby manner that you can imagine even in dream. They act like remnants of Britishers and treat Jawans like bloody kalu indians. Nothing comes out of iron walls of military camps.Media personnels also write only officers versions as they are not permitted to meet Jawans. Have you ever came across when media have invited Jawans on their forums. We don't want to look into functioning og defence forces, thinking that it will be unnecessory intervention but it is need of hour. There is urgent need to restructure defence establishment and evaluate officer and jawan relationship in terms of structural and operational requirement in holistic way, before it is too late.

i have my relatives & friends in both officers and jawans lobby.....of all ranks, and of all three wings of defence forces..

and that's why i'm fighting right from the first thread posted about such cribbing...

my first reaction was...
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173996&postcount=5

readers, pls follow entire thread & all derailing & misinterprating attempts..

from there on....viewers can see, how things shapes up, and how the facts were derailed...

 

[ssgoyat]

Ill-treatment of Jawans in Army



Why such indifferences...???

For all new members...here is also one such eye opening thread which i would like to refer for everybody's viewing...

before making any bhedchal comments in favour of the officer officer officer cribbing game.....

PLEASE READ THIS EYE OPENING THREAD...

HOW JAWANS ARE ILL-TREATED By such cribbing attitude problematic Officers n their wives

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138152#post138152

 

[devdahiya]

The debate seems properly hijacked by some unmindful and very irresponsible statements.I am surprised at the rate of hatred and utterances by some worldly wise and Godly souls.God bless and carry on.Those who understand the plight of Jawans who stayed in touch with them like their own brothers are being questioned by a few who know nothing about that department but write things to get a false public sympathy overlooking the basics of life.No body can convince a person if one has made up his/her mind this way or that way and feels what ever he says is the truth and rest of the world is captive audience....else how one can paint all officers all defence forces red.....if some one out of these officers have committed sin...they have been punished and those few who could bluff their way through will surely meet their waterloo in due life and they must....but abusing all officers like this is shameful and i condemn that and pity such a mindset.There will be officers and subordinates in any department and there will be differences in pay scales and perks...this is universal and officers/superiors can not be questioned on that.


Every organization has a hierarchy and status is decided on merit and not on stupid emotions and if people talk for the heck of it then this world is not going to change a bit (because they perceive it to be that way) because wishes are never horses.People are trying to say that Officers do not bother about their jawans in defence forces need to write a constitution in that regard and implement that according to their bizarre and unrealistic thinking ..but will some body give a chance to such irresponsible souls....Never at any cost because their thoughts are not only limited but also far from logic and truth.But then it takes a lots of patience and balance to say correct thing responsibly....and those who have taken an oath not to learn things will roam like a free bull in the market. ...All the best!


Demand of defence forces are absolutely genuine and will be met irrespective of slanting brigades here and some where else.

 

[devdahiya]

Why such indifferences...???

For all new members...here is also one such eye opening thread which i would like to refer for everybody's viewing...

before making any bhedchal comments in favour of the officer officer officer cribbing game.....

PLEASE READ THIS EYE OPENING THREAD...

HOW JAWANS ARE ILL-TREATED By such cribbing attitude problematic Officers n their wives

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=138152#post138152

There is element of truth here and those who do it are the biggest criminals and must be dealt with in most ruthless manner but again most officers have tremendous love and respect for jawans that i can vouch...need no license from people who have not the slightest idea of working of forces.

 

[ssgoyat]

some more....

There is element of truth here and those who do it are the biggest criminals and must be dealt with in most ruthless manner but again most officers have tremendous love and respect for jawans that i can vouch...need no license from people who have not the slightest idea of working of forces.

First answer all the questions above,some more below..
rather than diverting...n derailing...

Please enlighten (or divert/derail) us....with your Ideas...

Nobody speaks for speachless.

If anybody will answer this without bias:-

1) Why no committee has been constituted at ministry level for reviewing career prospects of PBOR's , as was done in case of Officers?

2) What is the reason behind stagnation of PBOR's career whereas Officers are being promoted so fast?

3) Why there should not be guaranted promotion of PBOR's as Officers have?

4) Why PBOR's can not be provided 100% married accomodation, non availbility of this is affecting their family life and next generation due change in Indian social system (Joint families are breaking) ?

5) Why there should not be an independent and autonomous body free from officers influece which can study service conditions of PBOR's and put its recommendations directly to ministry?

6) What are the reasons PBOR's pay and allowances are decreasing proportionatly if compared with officers, after bevery Pay Commission report?

7) Why PBOR's are sponsored for higher educational/ technical qualification during service, as officers are done?

8) Why PBOR's can not be given monetary benefits on acquqring higher qualification, as officers are given?

9) Had any independent study ever carried out of effects on PBOR's social, moral, financial and psychological condition when they are forced to retire between age of 35 -42 ?

10) Had anybody ever thought of implications that a soldier who opted for He-man carrier, thrown out of service to stand at the gates of showrooms, shops, factories, banks and restaurants?

11) Once officers are given study leave for pursueing M Tech or other higher but why PBOR's can not be provided same facilities to pursue B Tech, M tech or MBA?

12) Is after retirent job of PBOR's lies in piggery, coockry, sentry, waiter or safaiwala, as is evident from list of resetelment courses?

13) Do you think crowed at recruitment centers is indication of popularity of military service? This is outcome of rampant unemployment in rural youth ( 98% of PBOR's comes from rural india).

14) Had any officer or any chief of service ever said that conditions of service recquire improvement in case of PBOR's whereas you can hear frequently need of improvement in service condition of officers?

Thre are many issues relating to PBOR's but nobody think worth discussing them. Is it fair to wrapup and hide this real and burnig issue under the garb of PATRIOTISM.
Do you think a soldier"s next generation goes uneducated, he redered unemployed at prime age when his social responsibilities are at peak?

Please, please don't bury this issue under your ego. Please try to look at other side of coin.

These institutions can not survive for long if 85 - 90 % of its members are unsatisfied lot. Healthy, impartial, unbiased and above board thinking and discussion is need of hour.

 

[raj2rif]

Little Knowledge:

Little knowledge is a dangerous thing, a famous quote. We see it every day and everywhere. Mr. Goyat has raised some very valid points, and I do have unbiased answers to most of them if not for all of them. Time is a constraint as I am traveling. I think people have just no idea in the service conditions of officers, JCO’s and Other Ranks. There are certain issues that I had been fighting for during my own career. The problem is there are two distinct components of the military organization. One is the fighting component other is administrative. It is the administrative component that needs overhauling. How and what is a subject of detailed discussion.

There are few members who have made some serious allegations about the service officers. I have just one answer for them: They just have no idea of the military organization. I would rather have a face-to-face debate with such intellectuals and answer all their points to best of my abilities yet to their entire satisfaction so long logic is the key. Otherwise we can keep discussing this subject till cows come home without getting any outcome of it. Man management is not an easy task, especially so when you have to lead people poorly paid to the most dangerous tasks in the world. We in the military don’t have the luxury of making a mistake for there is rarely the second chance.

Good discussions keep going.

 

[sachinb]

Taakhar Bhai sahab,,,,,,,pahlya kunse aap agreee ho liye the:rock

Any Fauzi made so many compromises and sacrifices while serving, here i am not talking about the supereme sacrifice of life on borders.

If you want some one to lay down his life for the nation then what nation should give to that person,,,,,,,,saari ki saari services volunteerily hain,,,,ghar se koye IAS ko bhi nahi pakad ke le jaata

Ib bata tere jisse koye uulbaadi balak Khadde mein pad jya se Rajasthan mein,,,,usne bhi bahar kaadhan Fauz ne aana pade se:boxing:rock

Brigedier sahab please tell them how any fauzi is separated from his family not able to look after his property, pay attention to the education of his kids,,,,,,if that is so why he should not be compensated suitably,,,,,,and why he should not get the due respect

Taakhar bhai thaari galti konya,,,yu desh ka durbhaagya se ke isse maansa ke haath mein command se desh ki

Bhaisaab, Cant agree more !!! ..

 

[satyeshwar]

The author has requested that this thread be closed as he meant it only for general information and not for an active discussion that had been somewhat diverted in an altogether different direction.