Again - A Marriage in Same village

Should someone marry within his/her village?


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    68
  • Poll closed .
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Nice Survey!

...Ha! Wow... you are right, folks; The survey is really a nice eye-opener!!! :rolleyes::confused:;)

I am actually quite delighted to be in the exalted company of so many merciful 'intellectuals'... or maybe I should really be saying that I am infact quite sad I have moved so far-far away from so many of my fellow nationals and some great human beings! (No pun intended! I know we expats are doomed!)... :rolleyes: [Like I care!]

Anyways, I was inspired as usual on a warm, beautiful afternoon of a sunny Miami day.....combined so well and recipocated with such warm feelings of outpourings on this thread- to sketch another ones of those quickies....

Hope you Enjoy it too!
 
Wow

I am not a very frequent visitor here as my job keeps me very busy.

I have to say that I have worked in 15 countries and been in US since the last 7 years. I was born and raised in chandigarh and so got a good dose of dealing with all sorts of people since childhood (i mean different castes, relegions and beliefs)

It is sad to read the views of the literate and the more fortunate of the jats.

I am glad not be in these villages where 'DEATH WARRANTS' are passed :D

I can safely say that I can not ask any indian (non jat) or foreigner to take a gander at this thread. I would be too ashamed.

God bless everyone and their views!
 
I am not a very frequent visitor here as my job keeps me very busy.

I have to say that I have worked in 15 countries and been in US since the last 7 years. I was born and raised in chandigarh and so got a good dose of dealing with all sorts of people since childhood (i mean different castes, relegions and beliefs)

It is sad to read the views of the literate and the more fortunate of the jats.

I am glad not be in these villages where 'DEATH WARRANTS' are passed :D

I can safely say that I can not ask any indian (non jat) or foreigner to take a gander at this thread. I would be too ashamed.

God bless everyone and their views!
I did not get it.
Please explain in detail.
Thanks.
 
Our Culture

I am not a very frequent visitor here as my job keeps me very busy.

I have to say that I have worked in 15 countries and been in US since the last 7 years. I was born and raised in chandigarh and so got a good dose of dealing with all sorts of people since childhood (i mean different castes, relegions and beliefs)

It is sad to read the views of the literate and the more fortunate of the jats.

I am glad not be in these villages where 'DEATH WARRANTS' are passed :D

I can safely say that I can not ask any indian (non jat) or foreigner to take a gander at this thread. I would be too ashamed.

God bless everyone and their views!


Hi Vikas, Our opinion changes as we grow older, we see more of the world and have more experience about the good and bad part of life. It may be 'cause of your young age that you are saying that you are fortunate that you are not in these villages, but believe me, my friend that once you have kids and see them growing up, your opinion will also change and you wont like your kids to marry within the same gotra. As Sunita Hooda says" or else we wont be any different from the muslims and another cheers for the hindu muslim unity".
 
Before everyone gets worked up.

I suspect everyone realizes there is no honor in killing. I also suspect actual killings were rare. There would have some, and there still are. Those are acts against society, criminal acts, not done for honour.

The taking of life, unnecessarily, is against the fundamental Jat ethos, and unlikely to have been the first line of punishment.

If those who voted for, were asked, do you really support such so called ‘honor’ killing They would say that is NOT what they meant They were simply expressing their frustration..

The common punishment was- ostracization, for those who defied the traditions and customs of the community, the stoppage of “ Hooka – Pani”.

.WHY WERE MARRIAGE RELATIONS FOR NEW MARRIAGES BANNED INSIDE THE SAME VILLAGE?

Some thought on this may be useful.

The Jats follow a 4 goth removed system of marriage- they avoid the goths of the mother, father, and Paternal Grandmother. Some are more strict avoiding the goth of the maternal grandmother too.

No one here is arguing that this system be overthrown and marriage between cousins be accepted. What is being argued is that when a marriage in the village, though between different acceptable Goths , occurs, what should be done?

The old village was a small, homogenous unit. It was generally made up of the same goth-ra, or at best may have one family of another goth-ra in it.

It was simpler to treat all unmarried girls in the village as sisters, and though more than one goth may be present, marital relations were strictly avoided to preserve harmony.
Every unmarried daughter was treated as a sister, to avoid the chances of a relationship. They were for all practical purposes treated as cousins, even if they were not.

If those boundaries were not created and followed, the structure of the village society would been disturbed, and it is a truism, that no society can exist without some structure.

WHAT IS THE SITUATION TODAY?.

Today life and traditions are changing.

Villages are no longer small and isolated. They are connected to the outside world by road, telephone, and even the internet. Indeed there is a continual shift away from village, a normal process as industrialization supersedes agriculture.

Villages too are getting much bigger- some have over 25,000 persons in them. They are more like small towns.

There is less of need for interaction, as the nuclear families are more self sufficient, with the advent of technology tractors, tubewells, electricity, cars, and important family members earning income outside the village..

In this process, there is a lot more mobility.

The old village structure is declining.

Social taboos remain. Yet the old prohibitions of marriage within the same village will decrease, as time goes on, we may even see some newly weds tying the knot within the same gotra, and defying the social customs of their community.

What view will secular law take of this?

In Indian law there is no prohibition as such, for both the Muslim community ,and South Indian Hindus regularly marry their cousins. (Among the latter, there is a trend away from inter cousin marriage.)

The reality is that it may not be possible for the village society to stop marriage within the same village.

The questions then is what action should be taken or can be taken.

Does the Village society, the Panchayat, then take to steps to kill the couple or ostracize them, deny them the ability to live in the village?

Killing we are all in agreement is not an answer.

Is ostracization practical?

If not, then what is the answer?


Ravi Chaudhary
 
Thanks Raviji! It made very interesting read and definitely a food for thought.
... and unless I am grossly wronng I think a lot of members tried to put the same thought out there in some form or manner... and so in most parts most understand and see it the same way as the points of discussion put forth even by you here; but then there are surely gonna be some on the other side of the fence that prefer the mob mentality fo way of things when it comes to senstive issues... ah well, that's why the forum is what it is. A platform for free and open discussion.....
 
Dear Shailendra

I agree with you, most of us think and act reasonably.

There is also a little bit of a mob mentality in all of us. We should try and keep that genie chained up.

Having said that, the tradition of not marrying within the same goth or the same village has stood our Jat community well over the Ages,

We should preserve the tradition steadfastly.


Ravi
 
What is being argued is that when a marriage in the village, though between different acceptable Goths , occurs, what should be done?

The old village was a small, homogenous unit. It was generally made up of the same goth-ra, or at best may have one family of another goth-ra in it.

WHAT IS THE SITUATION TODAY?.

Today life and traditions are changing.

Villages are no longer small and isolated.

Villages too are getting much bigger- some have over 25,000 persons in them. They are more like small towns.

There is less of need for interaction, as the nuclear families are more self sufficient, with the advent of technology tractors, tubewells, electricity, cars, and important family members earning income outside the village..

In this process, there is a lot more mobility.

The old village structure is declining.

Social taboos remain. Yet the old prohibitions of marriage within the same village will decrease, as time goes on, we may even see some newly weds tying the knot within the same gotra, and defying the social customs of their community.

Ravi Chaudhary

Thanks Raviji! It made very interesting read and definitely a food for thought.
... and unless I am grossly wronng I think a lot of members tried to put the same thought out there in some form or manner... and so in most parts most understand and see it the same way as the points of discussion put forth even by you here; but then there are surely gonna be some on the other side of the fence that prefer the mob mentality fo way of things when it comes to senstive issues... ah well, that's why the forum is what it is. A platform for free and open discussion.....

dear shailendra,

assuming tht the incidence tht has been talked about holds good for the marriage within the same village, but having different gotra's. pls. also assume tht you have only listed options, to choose from. having said tht, nd going by yr abv post nd the reasoning given by raviji... i feel tht the 3rd option: 'Against honor killings - Irrespective' puts the subject in BEST perspective.

but i see tht you have posted for the 1st option. i'm not arguing yr jurisdiction, in fact i was also crossed in choosing btwn option 1 or option 3... eventually sticking to option 3.
wud appreciate further clarity on the subject frm yr side, considering the fact of what has been elaborated by raviji above that... Yet the old prohibitions of marriage within the same village will decrease

wud you still like to hold-on to yr stand in favour of option 1. :)
 
all those who have opted for option-I are most welcome to answer to my abv post as well. lets see if we can reach on to a common consensus. ;):)
 
dear shailendra,

assuming tht the incidence tht has been talked about holds good for the marriage within the same village, but having different gotra's. pls. also assume tht you have only listed options, to choose from. having said tht, nd going by yr abv post nd the reasoning given by raviji... i feel tht the 3rd option: 'Against honor killings - Irrespective' puts the subject in BEST perspective.

but i see tht you have posted for the 1st option. i'm not arguing yr jurisdiction, in fact i was also crossed in choosing btwn option 1 or option 3... eventually sticking to option 3.
wud appreciate further clarity on the subject frm yr side, considering the fact of what has been elaborated by raviji above that... Yet the old prohibitions of marriage within the same village will decrease

wud you still like to hold-on to yr stand in favour of option 1. :)

...Well, without full knowledge of the details of the incident; and assuming it is definitely some sort of a gotra concern or something I can confidently say that I too hold the traditions very sacredly, albeit with a sane, legal, rational thought to it... and that's why my first instinct is that while such a move cannot be applauded; I was still more appalled by some members jumping on to the bandwagon of honor killing/punishment simply because they thought it would encourage more young people to do the same in the future, otherwise!!!...

To me that is the most flawed argument to put up a case of honor killings and talibanistan like fatwas. We should be against mob mentality and meeting out any illegal punishments by taking the law of the land in our own hands; crime happens everyday in and around the world and lot many times criminals get away at times; but that does not make the business of crime any more lucrative for the young, impressionable minds- it is always the result and thinking of devious and misled individuals... and whether something eventually gets punished or not- people with sane mind will continue to avoid such misunderstandings, taboo subjects and on the same token there would also always be those very few rare ones that shall continue to go against the rules set by society, religion and caste... period.

I am still with the option that one should not condone such acts but neither should one take the drastic step of being the judge, jury and executioner all himself/herself!
 
i'll check this thread... mmm say after say 20-25 years, to confirm wch option was correct... with the hope tht there are no takers for option-2... nd anyone even mentioning this option wud be a far cry !
 
Damn .... the honur killing likers crossed 25 % , folks that's a significant number :) !

1 out of every 4 is a "khoon ka pyaasa " ! :eek:
 
Damn .... the honur killing likers crossed 25 % , folks that's a significant number :) !

1 out of every 4 is a "khoon ka pyaasa " ! :eek:

I am glad that atleast some of those who were taking issues with "liberals" on this thread have either voted 1 or didn't vote at all :D- both actions being quite significant.
 
I am glad that atleast some of those who were taking issues with "liberals" on this thread have either voted 1 or didn't vote at all :D- both actions being quite significant.


You basically want this 25 % number to increase !! :confused: Got ya !! :eek: :D
 
Nahin yaar, I meant people don't always mean what they say. You look at voting list for option 1 and you will understand.

Exactly...

and if we slightly twist 'the question' to: "What will you DO if your sister or daughter marry in your own village??" :)

u'll see the 'magic' number going further up!!!
(though we'll need some sort of 'brain scanner' to ascertain the hypocrites)
 
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