Khap Panchayat and Indian Judicial System

Kadyan ji,
Can you substantiate any of your comments with facts or examples or news in favor of Khap Panchayats?
# Your point 2) contradicts point 1).
# Your point 3): You mean panchayats can handle the volume and variety of cases-civil, criminal, corporate, etc, etc, that Judiciary handles?
# Your point 4): Let me give a simple example. Eve-teasing, a harmless fun activity of a man that can be over looked. However, for a woman, she would like to see him flogged senseless.

Lets make law even more simple- Eye for an eye, life for a life.
Lets call the people involved in honor killing as the Social Workers. Afterall they are working towards the upliftment of your social values without any ulterior motives. Right?
Regards
dskadyan said:
Here I would like to tell you this Written rules are problems. what are those
1. They are rigid.
2. Lawyer Plays with wording in rule. Sky is limit for word plays as there is pools of rule books.
3. Khap Panchayat is not in dark age. You can say its evolved and tested method. Jury and Supreme court with 3 and 5 judges are imitation of the Panchayats. Only there is so much red tapes,alienation and overcrowded they are not as use full as panchayats.
4. And yes you can say there is so much difference in Verdict that they seems cruel some time. But getting 7-10 years term for some thing that should be overlooked. Like accidental deaths and many such cases.

Still i want to improove our khap panchayats and it should start with judidcial system gives verdict against Panchayats and members.

Aur jo yeh Honour Killing ki baat karte hai ki galat hai, they should put themselves at their position. You also would kill at those situation. Killing man dont give them any pleasure or some thing.
And I dont think any JAT will give reward here to the person.
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Dear Sir,
Kindly note the inserts in bold.
Regards
ravichaudhary said:
Jitender Hooda Sahib has given some very insightful explanations. I agree with him.

Some more thoughts:


1) Is there a way to ensure that the Khap passes unbiased decisions?

Response: No there is no way to know that the decision is not biased. That also happened with any judicial system. It is well known how corrupt the Indian Judicial system is, and judges are bought with money in routine.

Since it is direct democracy, the Khap Panchayat cannot get away with a biased decision, they have live with the rest, day in and day out. As khaps will grow in power, so will the Khap Chaudharys, and their status. Do you think chaudharys will be incorruptible and not misuse that power?
5) How many women are currently represented/ involved in Khap Panchayat?

The position of the lady was probably the best in Jat society, whether it was re marriage, rights in the family etc, she held a position of honor.

If some one wishes, we can discuss this; I will post a paper on the History section.-This would be nice to be reminded of status of women in our jat society.
.

6) Can anybody give a recent achievement of Khap Panchayat, besides the honor killings?

When a loved one gets killed, it creates a vacuum in the family, an emptiness that is impossible to replace.

Again we can discuss this on a separate thread, but I suspect these killing were more ‘crimes of passion,’ and ‘temporary insanity’, than cold blooded killings for gain.-Ravi ji, does this justify taking a life?

I cannot see the Panchayats issuing such an order to kill . -what about instigating it or condoning it? Isn't that akin to murder?

Jats have a culture of tolerance for all, and are very civilized by nature as their history shows.I disagree, we seem to have an instinctive zero tolerance for any sort of opposition/check/counter to our thoughts, behaviour or actions.

As to major decisions they have taken recently.

Their political and judicial power was crushed in 1857. It is only in that 25 years or so, that there has been a ground swell ,and the common village people are reviving these bodies , as they can get no satisfaction of from the Judicial- police- political nexus.-A common man in a village prefers to solve his problems within consensus of a family or a Kunba or panchayat, else accept it as fate or go to judiciary if they can afford it. Is it the common man or the enlightened souls with political ambitions who are reviving Khaps?

Their movements have improved the rights of rural people , through a constant ongoing interaction with administration and politicians-could you guide me to any material supportive of this, thanks.

Other view are welcome

Ravi Chaudhary
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anjoo said:
Dear Sir,
Kindly note the inserts in bold.
Regards
Click to expand...

Again wrong direction and assumption
Honour killing is different from panchayat's decision
I haven't seen panchayat making decision to kill anyone. It is either from family side of girl or boy. Mostly from family of girl.
Tum logo ko ye kaun batata hai ki panchayat logo ki hatya karwati hai.
TV media se bahar niklo ye log siraf khabro ko bechte hain. And they believe in destroying culture.

Who are the persons running panchayats? It is common man who is not holding position in politics.Politics to is kaam ko khatam karne par ho rahi hai. Ye ek janta ki adalat hai jo constitution par nahi human feelings pe based hai jiska kaam bhaichara banana hai na ki bigadna. Ek gaon jisme do gotra wale salo se rehte aaye hain us gaon mein ek aadmi doosre gotra ki ladki biyah lata hai to ye batao us gaon wale us ladki ko kya kaheein? Behan ya bhabhi? aur iske liye wo us parivar ko gaon chodne ko kehta hain to isme burai kya hai? Unhone unka katl nahi kiya tum log media ki baato pe kyun jate ho? khud ek baar jake to dekho wahan kaun sa MP ya MLA baitha hai?
 
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some doubts

anjoo said:
Kadyan ji,
Can you substantiate any of your comments with facts or examples or news in favor of Khap Panchayats?
# Your point 2) contradicts point 1).
May be, so it should be in our judicial system.
# Your point 3): You mean panchayats can handle the volume and variety of cases-civil, criminal, corporate, etc, etc, that Judiciary handles?
No, Panchayats will resolve things. But you are right judicial system handles them and well for long long time. Other wise a jameen case wont take more than 8 hours to solve, that may take even 30 years in our judicial system.
# Your point 4): Let me give a simple example. Eve-teasing, a harmless fun activity of a man that can be over looked. However, for a woman, she would like to see him flogged senseless.
This post is not about man vs woman. and now cases are there that man are also target of these kind of attacks by women. And you may have seen so many cases of girls tries to kiss a man celebrity in public, in media.You may say these are in cases of celebrities and are rare, but point is that sharam and all these things are no more important for metropolitan girls and even for many village and small cities girl.All these things happen because social respect decreasing day by day. If we have strong panchayats many crime wont exist on the earth, at least not in these numbers.


Lets make law even more simple- Eye for an eye, life for a life.
Lets call the people involved in honor killing as the Social Workers. Afterall they are working towards the upliftment of your social values without any ulterior motives. Right?

Yeh sab hindu panchayats ki cheezein nahi hai. app kaha se pakad kar layee hai ram jane.
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I think you have wrong idea of panchayat.

Its not a rigid structure. No body got selected for any permanent post. This is where we as common man do the justice for two parties which are having issue. A group of certain people which both parties trust is panchayat. And bigger version of this system is called khap panchayat. Do you think you cant resolve issue of your two coleague better and faster than the judge which dont know any one of them?

And we are not suggesting to remove judiciary system. just supporting to keep this parallel system alive and in this time of lesser social respect it can be happen only if government support this system. And it will increase harmony and better social enviorment.
 
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dskadyan said:
I think you have wrong idea of panchayat.

Its not a rigid structure. No body got selected for any permanent post. This is where we as common man do the justice for two parties which are having issue. A group of certain people which both parties trust is panchayat. And bigger version of this system is called khap panchayat. Do you think you cant resolve issue of your two coleague better and faster than the judge which dont know any one of them?

And we are not suggesting to remove judiciary system. just supporting to keep this parallel system alive and in this time of lesser social respect it can be happen only if government support this system. And it will increase harmony and better social enviorment.
Click to expand...
Chod kadiyan kyun khamkha bawla ho rehya hai.
jin logo ne dunia siraf TV ki nazar se dekhi hai unhe samjhane ka koi fayda nahi. bihar ki panchayat aur thakurgirii dekhi hai in ne bus.
Agar panchayat wale itne tagde politician ya paise wale log hote to unka naam pehli baar kaise sunte hain ye log???
 
Rakesh,
I respect your viewpoint. I would have thought that you would also cite the great deeds of Khap panchayats to convince the non-believers like me.
I am not against Khaps. I am against their agenda.
I guess there is a conspiracy against the Haryana khaps in the press. They seem to have lost out on the good work by Khaps.
Regards





rakeshsehrawat said:
Chod kadiyan kyun khamkha bawla ho rehya hai.
jin logo ne dunia siraf TV ki nazar se dekhi hai unhe samjhane ka koi fayda nahi. bihar ki panchayat aur thakurgirii dekhi hai in ne bus.
Agar panchayat wale itne tagde politician ya paise wale log hote to unka naam pehli baar kaise sunte hain ye log???
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If Panchayat gave that decision, do you think Panchayat Chaudhrys would be able to avoid imprisonment?
Panchayat did not condemn the act of villagers who killed the couple. Isn't that a kind of support to murder?
rakeshsehrawat said:
Again wrong direction and assumption
Honour killing is different from panchayat's decision
I haven't seen panchayat making decision to kill anyone. It is either from family side of girl or boy. Mostly from family of girl.
Tum logo ko ye kaun batata hai ki panchayat logo ki hatya karwati hai.
TV media se bahar niklo ye log siraf khabro ko bechte hain. And they believe in destroying culture.

Who are the persons running panchayats? It is common man who is not holding position in politics.Politics to is kaam ko khatam karne par ho rahi hai. Ye ek janta ki adalat hai jo constitution par nahi human feelings pe based hai jiska kaam bhaichara banana hai na ki bigadna. Ek gaon jisme do gotra wale salo se rehte aaye hain us gaon mein ek aadmi doosre gotra ki ladki biyah lata hai to ye batao us gaon wale us ladki ko kya kaheein? Behan ya bhabhi? aur iske liye wo us parivar ko gaon chodne ko kehta hain to isme burai kya hai? Unhone unka katl nahi kiya tum log media ki baato pe kyun jate ho? khud ek baar jake to dekho wahan kaun sa MP ya MLA baitha hai?
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anjoo said:
If Panchayat gave that decision, do you think they would be able to avoid imprisonment?
Panchayat did not condemn the act of villagers who killed the couple. Isn't that a kind of support to murder?
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Forget support or condemn. They are mere words. If panchayat is the authority in the village society, then it better enforce its authority. OK, it is debatable that the couple should have been punished or not and if yes, then in what form. But Panchayat DID enforce its authority and forced them out of the village. Fine. I would beg to differ with them but they are the rule-enforcers of the village society, probably they know better and so I can live with their decision. But now some people kill the couple. Where is panchayat's authority now? I don't even want any condemnation. I want punishment for the killers. Why doesn't it take action against the murderers? And I don't want any bhaashan on pratishastha, parampara and anushashan on how honor justifies the killing. Or any roundabout logic that Panchayat didn't order the killings, it is the relatives who killed the couple. In that case, one will find examples where relatives did the marriage as well (like in Dharana). No civil society can allow members to go berserk, take law in their hands and impart vigilante justice. That is jungle law. If you have authority and you enforce it in one case, you have to enforce it in all cases.
 
Panchayat ke chaudhriyan kii matti maari gayii akk maaraniya ne sazaa de de? Maran teh toh unne bhi darr laagey hai!!!
kapil.dalal said:
But now some people kill the couple. Where is panchayat's authority now? I don't even want any condemnation. I want punishment for the killers. Why doesn't it take action against the murderers?
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Kadyan ji,
Please cite examples of what Khaps have achieved so far, backed by proof, thanks.
What Khaps "can do" for the rural society, sky is the limit...how about telling what khap has done?
dskadyan said:
I think you have wrong idea of panchayat.

Its not a rigid structure. No body got selected for any permanent post. This is where we as common man do the justice for two parties which are having issue. A group of certain people which both parties trust is panchayat. And bigger version of this system is called khap panchayat. Do you think you cant resolve issue of your two coleague better and faster than the judge which dont know any one of them?

And we are not suggesting to remove judiciary system. just supporting to keep this parallel system alive and in this time of lesser social respect it can be happen only if government support this system. And it will increase harmony and better social enviorment.
Click to expand...
 
helo sir

thnkas for u that u h written abt khaap panchayat.....bt 1 thng that how u give ordered to kill sombody...tht nt fine...very illigal n dsnt gud for future of jaats....do ur work plz n nt bothrd other people...jiyo or jeene do....we all knows tht kese rahna h or kya karna h...we r enough educated than the thekedaar of our community...we know our gud n bed.....plz dnt teach any1....i respect you bt nt ur thoughts...."["]jese hinduo ke thekedaar bane h is desh me vaise plz aap jaato ke thekedaar mat baniye..".[/COLOR][/COLOR]
thnks..sir....
 
Jatland Horrors!!!!

Heres' news from Deccan Herald.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/21139/jatland-horrors.html
And, heres' an excerpt-
Not only the families, deeply hurt and enraged over being ‘betrayed’ by the boy or the girl, who fall in love and choose to marry against their wishes, but also the ‘all powerful’ caste panchayats perpetrate or abet ‘honour killings’.
The caste panchayats have in the past pronounced orders to strangle, burn or hack the lovers to death for ‘violating’ the `strict caste-based traditions’.
 
anjoo said:
Heres' news from Deccan Herald.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/21139/jatland-horrors.html
And, heres' an excerpt-
Not only the families, deeply hurt and enraged over being ‘betrayed’ by the boy or the girl, who fall in love and choose to marry against their wishes, but also the ‘all powerful’ caste panchayats perpetrate or abet ‘honour killings’.
The caste panchayats have in the past pronounced orders to strangle, burn or hack the lovers to death for ‘violating’ the `strict caste-based traditions’.
Click to expand...

Honour killing is clearly mentioned.
I haven't seen that a panchayat held and passed decision for killing.
Based on what's written in paper you just mixed that panchayat is giving decision to kill people. Media doesn't want a court of common man because they can blackmail politicians but person from panchayat are common men and they don't accept bribes so it is difficult for media to face them .They want to destroy this system by putting poisionous words in ears of youth.
Decision is all yours but all i ask is that atleast once in life see real panchayat.
 
anjoo said:
Heres' news from Deccan Herald.
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/21139/jatland-horrors.html
And, heres' an excerpt-
Not only the families, deeply hurt and enraged over being ‘betrayed’ by the boy or the girl, who fall in love and choose to marry against their wishes, but also the ‘all powerful’ caste panchayats perpetrate or abet ‘honour killings’.
The caste panchayats have in the past pronounced orders to strangle, burn or hack the lovers to death for ‘violating’ the `strict caste-based traditions’.
Click to expand...
chhori tu isa dar kyu maan ri s is khaap ta , k baat kimme rool to na s bata diye le teri to tarafdaari karange khaap aalya aage ;)
jitender hooda bhai aagar is manaraam ki jagah aapa hote to kya karte???? is dipak ne gunthi pahrate k ?
 
Rakesh ji,
Thank you for your support, appreciate it.:)
Khaps can do a lot. I am just asking for what Khaps have done so far.
Regards,
Anju




raka said:
chhori tu isa dar kyu maan ri s is khaap ta , k baat kimme rool to na s bata diye le teri to tarafdaari karange khaap aalya aage ;)
jitender hooda bhai aagar is manaraam ki jagah aapa hote to kya karte???? is dipak ne gunthi pahrate k ?
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rakeshsehrawat said:
Honour killing is clearly mentioned.
I haven't seen that a panchayat held and passed decision for killing.
Based on what's written in paper you just mixed that panchayat is giving decision to kill people.
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Rakesh, if you are saying that the newspaper report doesn't talk about panchyat giving decision to kill people, then it does. Excerpts:

- but also the ‘all powerful’ caste panchayats perpetrate or abet ‘honour killings’.
-The caste panchayats have in the past pronounced orders to strangle, burn or hack the lovers to death for ‘violating’ the `strict caste-based traditions’.

Having said that, I think this report is a shoddy piece of journalism. The journalist has no idea of what he is talking about. He has merely collected some sound bytes from people opposed to the traditional view point and built a narrative in black and white terms. In one para, he even jumps from Panchayat to Nitish Katara case! And to top it all, he has given it a provocative title, "Jatland horrors". Garbage level.
 
raka said:
jitender hooda bhai aagar is manaraam ki jagah aapa hote to kya karte???? is dipak ne gunthi pahrate k ?
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Sure enough killing someone is not the way to go.

A "love" / "affair " , "relationship" is of one person , it involves the girl as well , you can do N number of things to stop the affair!
 
Digital option: Goothi ya Ghitti

anilsinghd said:
Sure enough killing someone is not the way to go.

A "love" / "affair " , "relationship" is of one person , it involves the girl as well , you can do N number of things to stop the affair!
Click to expand...

Humbey! Hum Jat se aur isse kesan mein mhaare dhore do hi choice ho se- ya to goothi pahraao ya susre ki ghitti daab do...
 
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