China violates LAC

[rameshw]

As some people had rightly pointed out earlier on this forum, China has shown some initial aggresive stance for the first time after independence by violating the Line of Actual Control as far as 1.5 kilometer inside the indian territory and sprayed Red Ink on rocks etc.

Here is the news link:

tribuneindia.com/2009/20090907/main1.htm

Please add www in front of the link. As I am not allowed to post links right now having less than 15 posts

I invite all views on this, particularly views of present or ex army personnel will be particularly insightful.

Thanks

Ramesh

 

[amritkharb]

China has been doing this for years. It is not recent news.

 

[rameshw]

China has been doing this for years. It is not recent news.

tumhaari baat bhi maan lete hain.
However, we all know the problem. What is the possible solution on a long run?

 

[yudhvirmor]

tumhaari baat bhi maan lete hain.
However, we all know the problem. What is the possible solution on a long run?

Work hard.. Build infrastructure along LAC.. Better road & rail network. . Develop places for tourism.. Increase Artillery power.. stationed 10-15 Squadrons of 4th Generation Fighters..

Kul mila kee give message to China that "Iss side aye toh Nasha pe marange""

 

[jitender_singh]

Baat to bilkul theek hai bhai.. par yeh sarkar aisa kar paayegee. hamara defence minister toh yeh kehta hai ki india china sabse peaceful border hai usey 5 star hotel aaram karne se kuch fursat milege toh karega..

Work hard.. Build infrastructure along LAC.. Better road & rail network. . Develop places for tourism.. Increase Artillery power.. stationed 10-15 Squadrons of 4th Generation Fighters..

Kul mila kee give message to China that "Iss side aye toh Nasha pe marange""

 

[amritkharb]

tumhaari baat bhi maan lete hain.
However, we all know the problem. What is the possible solution on a long run?

Sirji, ek solution hae jo I think is good. We can identify all those areas where chinese have made incursions. Then we can separate them and set up tourism related businesses there. Their soldiers would buy our goods and services. We can have Indian businesses sponsoring paid tours of our border areas where chinese just wander in. Since this has been happening for long time, we can feel confident by now that our armed forces, politicians do not know how to deal with it so why not make this useful and make some money out it for our businesses. We can have state tourism offices, things like this. :rock

 

[malikdeepak1]

Sirji, ek solution hae jo I think is good. We can identify all those areas where chinese have made incursions. Then we can separate them and set up tourism related businesses there. Their soldiers would buy our goods and services. We can have Indian businesses sponsoring paid tours of our border areas where chinese just wander in. Since this has been happening for long time, we can feel confident by now that our armed forces, politicians do not know how to deal with it so why not make this useful and make some money out it for our businesses. We can have state tourism offices, things like this. :rock

This will only help in increasing pollution.. :boxing

 

[bazardparveen]

i agreed with yudhvir.....we have to send a strong message to our neighbors whether it's China or Pakistan. Every time some thing happens we forget with time. we react when next incident happens.......We have to change this attitude......We have to show them we are strong enough to reply back.......

iss side aye to naasen pe lage gae....................

 

[malikdeepak1]

i agreed with yudhvir.....we have to send a strong message to our neighbors whether it's China or Pakistan. Every time some thing happens we forget with time. we react when next incident happens.......We have to change this attitude......We have to show them we are strong enough to reply back.......

iss side aye to naasen pe lage gae....................

Itne congress se center me itne to koni ho sakta kuch bhi bhai..
ye to Nehru ki poochad pakad ke chal rhe se.. nu e kah se "hindi-Cheeni bhai bhai". Ye laag rhe se us Mananiya Shri Afjal Guru ne bachaan pe jisne desh ki sansad pe e hmla kar diya tha. Aajkal Shri Shri 1008 Kasaab ji Maharaj ki seva-shrushrva me laag rhe sain. Roj pakistan ne naye saboot deve se ke kasaab Mumbai attack me shamil tha.. Re jib thya gya yu to ib faansi kyu nahi dente..
Inka attitude to nu e rahna se.. Ye je in muddyan ne suljha denge to inki rajneeti kyukar chalegi.. Katvyan ke vote nahi chale jange inke. Hum to baat kare se naasha pe maren ki ye un-ne fufa bna rhe sain.
Koi ho dyaki uth ke byan de de se ke parmaanoo prikshan asfal tha.. nyu bera hote hue ke padosi taiyar baithe se hamla karen tai.. fer bhi nahi mante. Apne aap ne sirf Kaayar saabit kar rhe h or kuch nahi.:boxing

 

[rameshw]

Praveen:

To some extent, I agree with you. History is proof that to send a strong signal, you do not really need to be more 'powerful' than your neighbour.

In this case, reality is, that we are not more powerful than China in terms of military power (both by numbers or technology). However that is not important as the chances of a full fledged military battle is slim to None.

China is a super power in making and over time has not shown much friendship towards India ever. In that sense, there has been an unspoken cold war since a long time.

So getting back to a strong signal point.

What according to you will be a strong signal? How should it be diplomatically executed?

What do you suggest?

Ramesh

i agreed with yudhvir.....we have to send a strong message to our neighbors whether it's China or Pakistan. Every time some thing happens we forget with time. we react when next incident happens.......We have to change this attitude......We have to show them we are strong enough to reply back.......

iss side aye to naasen pe lage gae....................

 

[bazardparveen]

Itne congress se center me itne to koni ho sakta kuch bhi bhai..
ye to Nehru ki poochad pakad ke chal rhe se.. nu e kah se "hindi-Cheeni bhai bhai". Ye laag rhe se us Mananiya Shri Afjal Guru ne bachaan pe jisne desh ki sansad pe e hmla kar diya tha. Aajkal Shri Shri 1008 Kasaab ji Maharaj ki seva-shrushrva me laag rhe sain. Roj pakistan ne naye saboot deve se ke kasaab Mumbai attack me shamil tha.. Re jib thya gya yu to ib faansi kyu nahi dente..
Inka attitude to nu e rahna se.. Ye je in muddyan ne suljha denge to inki rajneeti kyukar chalegi.. Katvyan ke vote nahi chale jange inke. Hum to baat kare se naasha pe maren ki ye un-ne fufa bna rhe sain.
Koi ho dyaki uth ke byan de de se ke parmaanoo prikshan asfal tha.. nyu bera hote hue ke padosi taiyar baithe se hamla karen tai.. fer bhi nahi mante. Apne aap ne sirf Kaayar saabit kar rhe h or kuch nahi.:boxing

It's not about who is the power. In BJP time also such things(plane hijack, attack on assembly, attack on Red fort and may be more) happened. There is something wrong with our foreign policy. We always show weak attitude(peace and talk). This thing has to be changed.
Remember: when you are ready for war then you can expect peace.

 

[bazardparveen]

Praveen:

To some extent, I agree with you. History is proof that to send a strong signal, you do not really need to be more 'powerful' than your neighbour.

In this case, reality is, that we are not more powerful than China in terms of military power (both by numbers or technology). However that is not important as the chances of a full fledged military battle is slim to None.

China is a super power in making and over time has not shown much friendship towards India ever. In that sense, there has been an unspoken cold war since a long time.

So getting back to a strong signal point.

What according to you will be a strong signal? How should it be diplomatically executed?

What do you suggest?

Ramesh

I agreed China is a super power. But it's not all about power, attitude also plays an important role. I am not saying go for war with china based on this incident. But whenever action has to be taken it must be strong action
Just have a look at some past incident:
Recently after 26/11 what our goverment is doing? We are expecting that US will pressurize pakistan and we will get justice..............that's disgusting. We should have been attacked POK immediately after 26/11.

During kargil, Our air force was not allowed to cross LOC because we have to give answers to UN and other countries. We lost so many brave soldiers in Kargil because of it. Pakistanis was in our territory, they were not thinking about UN and all these stuffs.....Why should we care? i am not saying attack 1st but when turns come hit them hard.

If at the time of kargil, we had attack terrorist camp in POK then it might be possible 26/11 didn't happen.

After the china incident, our foreign minister was giving statement that everything is fine. China border is peaceful.....these statements hurt....

Look at Iran, I think they are not as powerful as USA. Still they are ready to take on them.....US will never attack Iran because of Iran attitude.

Israel is very small country surrounded by all Muslim countries. Although they are very advance in technology, but it's their attitude which is keeping them safe.

Finally what I want to say is that our foreign policy has lots of faults....It has to be reformed........I am repeating again: You can expect peace when you are ready for war

i can't say anything what has to be done right now? but when chances come, we have to take them

 

[aryasatyadev]

Work hard.. Build infrastructure along LAC.. Better road & rail network. . Develop places for tourism.. Increase Artillery power.. stationed 10-15 Squadrons of 4th Generation Fighters..

Kul mila kee give message to China that "Iss side aye toh Nasha pe marange""

It will definitely give a strong signal to China that we are serious, but has anybody analysed how much it will cost in terms of exchequer....... are the Indian people (You and Me) are ready to pay the additional tax for that......

I agreed China is a super power. But it's not all about power, attitude also plays an important role. I am not saying go for war with china based on this incident. But whenever action has to be taken it must be strong action
Just have a look at some past incident:
Recently after 26/11 what our goverment is doing? We are expecting that US will pressurize pakistan and we will get justice..............that's disgusting. We should have been attacked POK immediately after 26/11.

During kargil, Our air force was not allowed to cross LOC because we have to give answers to UN and other countries. We lost so many brave soldiers in Kargil because of it. Pakistanis was in our territory, they were not thinking about UN and all these stuffs.....Why should we care? i am not saying attack 1st but when turns come hit them hard.

If at the time of kargil, we had attack terrorist camp in POK then it might be possible 26/11 didn't happen.

After the china incident, our foreign minister was giving statement that everything is fine. China border is peaceful.....these statements hurt....

Look at Iran, I think they are not as powerful as USA. Still they are ready to take on them.....US will never attack Iran because of Iran attitude.

Israel is very small country surrounded by all Muslim countries. Although they are very advance in technology, but it's their attitude which is keeping them safe.

Finally what I want to say is that our foreign policy has lots of faults....It has to be reformed........I am repeating again: You can expect peace when you are ready for war

i can't say anything what has to be done right now? but when chances come, we have to take them

Praveen bhai, apart from attitude there are many socio political and economical factors which govt. has to keep in mind while deciding on these issues..... Iran can afford it's attitude bacause of Oil, but we at this stage can't.....

Moreover, it is not the first time that China has violated the LAC, it is being done by them time and again, the best available option is to fence the entire border along Arunachal, Assam side but there is also some problem regarding status of Arunachal Pradesh....... and these type of incidents also took place along Bangladesh border, do you remember what happened in year 2000 in a small village named Pirdiwah....... so until something serious happens, we should wait and watch.....

 

[yudhvirmor]

It will definitely give a strong signal to China that we are serious, but has anybody analysed how much it will cost in terms of exchequer....... are the Indian people (You and Me) are ready to pay the additional tax for that......


Arunachal Pradesh....... and these type of incidents also took place along Bangladesh border, do you remember what happened in year 2000 in a small village named Pirdiwah....... so until something serious happens, we should wait and watch.....

Sir, Every year Defense forces are returning back billions of rupees of unspent budget because of bureaucracy and corruption in weapon procurement. We are hearing from last 10 years that we want 4th generation aircrafts and some decent tanks.. Defense has budget but they don't know how to spend it.. Its stupidity at the highest level.

 

[rameshw]

Praveen:

You have touched some good points. However, you are re-highlighting the problems.

What is a strong signal in your understanding? State the things/ actions you wish India to take?

Ramesh

I agreed China is a super power. But it's not all about power, attitude also plays an important role. I am not saying go for war with china based on this incident. But whenever action has to be taken it must be strong action
Just have a look at some past incident:
Recently after 26/11 what our goverment is doing? We are expecting that US will pressurize pakistan and we will get justice..............that's disgusting. We should have been attacked POK immediately after 26/11.

During kargil, Our air force was not allowed to cross LOC because we have to give answers to UN and other countries. We lost so many brave soldiers in Kargil because of it. Pakistanis was in our territory, they were not thinking about UN and all these stuffs.....Why should we care? i am not saying attack 1st but when turns come hit them hard.

If at the time of kargil, we had attack terrorist camp in POK then it might be possible 26/11 didn't happen.

After the china incident, our foreign minister was giving statement that everything is fine. China border is peaceful.....these statements hurt....

Look at Iran, I think they are not as powerful as USA. Still they are ready to take on them.....US will never attack Iran because of Iran attitude.

Israel is very small country surrounded by all Muslim countries. Although they are very advance in technology, but it's their attitude which is keeping them safe.

Finally what I want to say is that our foreign policy has lots of faults....It has to be reformed........I am repeating again: You can expect peace when you are ready for war

i can't say anything what has to be done right now? but when chances come, we have to take them

 

[aryasatyadev]

Sir, Every year Defense forces are returning back billions of rupees of unspent budget because of bureaucracy and corruption in weapon procurement. We are hearing from last 10 years that we want 4th generation aircrafts and some decent tanks.. Defense has budget but they don't know how to spend it.. Its stupidity at the highest level.

Yudhvir bhai, I recommend this site which gives a clear picture of the budget of defence forces
http://www.defencetalk.com/india-boosts-defence-spending-to-284-bln-dollars-20368/

and the following site regarding stance of defence ministry, see how we also do it
http://www.hindustantimes.com/Now-C...onal-border-in-Ladakh/H1-Article1-450918.aspx

 

[bazardparveen]

It will definitely give a strong signal to China that we are serious, but has anybody analysed how much it will cost in terms of exchequer....... are the Indian people (You and Me) are ready to pay the additional tax for that......



Praveen bhai, apart from attitude there are many socio political and economical factors which govt. has to keep in mind while deciding on these issues..... Iran can afford it's attitude bacause of Oil, but we at this stage can't.....

Moreover, it is not the first time that China has violated the LAC, it is being done by them time and again, the best available option is to fence the entire border along Arunachal, Assam side but there is also some problem regarding status of Arunachal Pradesh....... and these type of incidents also took place along Bangladesh border, do you remember what happened in year 2000 in a small village named Pirdiwah....... so until something serious happens, we should wait and watch.....

I agreed we have problems. But, How we can wait for something big to happen? If we waits, then we will be in troubles like 26/11. I think India is developing fast enough now to bear infrastructure expenses along the border.It's the result of our attitude after 26/11 that just two three days back Pakistan fired rocket in Indian territory.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-fired-into-India-BSF/articleshow/5002304.cms
Now what do you say? wait till another 26/11 happens....I think No....raise this issue immediately in UN and in front of US. Put pressure on pak. These are the issues which has to raised immediately. When things like 26/11 happens, don't talk, take action.
Just few years back, China was also like us, same problems: same social, economic condition. But they changed their mind set and now they are going to be next superpower.It's our turn now, we have to change.

Praveen:

You have touched some good points. However, you are re-highlighting the problems.

What is a strong signal in your understanding? State the things/ actions you wish India to take?

Ramesh

I think steps suggested by yudvir has to taken. Build infrastructure, develop technology to do it. If steps are not taken right now,in future we may find our self in deep trouble.
Raise these issues in UN and at international level. Talk strongly with china that we are not going to tolerate it.