ravinderjeet
New member
ye left waaley mashoor hein pessy le ke aandolan chalaane ke liye
cokacola case,baba ramdev case ,sardar sarover case etc.
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12 points by MahaPanchayat - How much you agree?
- Thread starter hemanthooda
- Start date
ye left waaley mashoor hein pessy le ke aandolan chalaane ke liye
cokacola case,baba ramdev case ,sardar sarover case etc.
Thanks for bringing this information. As she stated in her statement that Khaps are doing this for political millage. I doubt her credibility more now as she is already attached to a political party and accusing others.
My pleasure. RS, as human beings we all have political orientation in the backyard of our sub-conscious brain. Do you think the community leaders do not have any political ideology and do not have any connection with political parties. I find many of them as whole timers of one party or the other. Don't you have any political inclination towards one particular group/party. Don't we exercise our franchise. That is also a politics. Politics is an inalienable part of our life. Whosoever gets a chance of some political mileage, likes to avail and we should not be hypocrite about that. But here foucus is not on comments from any party or organization. The real issues of Gotra marriage and killing to stop such marriage have already been discussed and I do not think there is much left on this topic. As a courtesy, I am simply acknowledging your post.
Best wishes.
VP ji
Here the issue is same goth marriage, and an attack on Jat customs.
She is harping on a few cases- 4 to be exact.
( The incidents are tragic,and I share the pain of the families involved. There are no winners here. We must keep working to find a better way.)
This number of cases certainly does not reflect the majority of the marriages in Jat society.
To describe Jat society in " Islamic terrorist" terms, Taliban, Fatwa, Farman . Is that not going a little bit overboard ?.
Question is, what is her motivation to do this ?.
Why demean your own society?
She is still silent on the issue of same goth marriage!
Why?
Ravi Chaudhary
Dear Chaudhary Sahab,
Sorry, I am not in a position to reply on her behalf as I have no interaction with her. Well, it is a matter of her individual choice to comment on any topic or not, like politicians from other parties who are conspicuously absent from the scene. As per my information, so far no political leader with some reckoning from the major parties have gone public with their comments on same gotra marriage and the murder. The community leaders are, however, trying their best to drag them in the fray. They have reportedly met INLD leader who has assured them for all possible help to have the Marriage Act amended.
As far as use of harsh synonyms like "Taliban" or "Islamic terrorist" etc. is concerned, appropriate resentment may be registered by our leaders with the channels and if necessary, a defamation case may be filed against all those who are indulged in blasphemy. But then the list of defendants would be very long as there are scores of TV channels and newspapers who have already used these words. But before doing that, we need to put our house in order. We have to destroy all the proofs which prompted the usage of such harsh words.
As I have already explained, there is nothing much to say on this topic now. I am sure, members are also too fatigued to hear anything on this topic.
Regards
Last edited:
ravichaudhary
New member
RHETORIC.
A number of personalities, including but not limited to Jagmati Sangwan, are washing their dirty linen in public.
The media , always on the lookout for a juicy story, has taken to this story. It sound good, ‘ honour killing’ ‘ kangaroo courts’ etc etc.
Rhetoric is rhetoric, and that will be dealt with in course of time. NO need to get too worked up on a bit of mud slinging.
We Jats being more than a little rustic, and rough in our clothes and speaking manner ,do not come across very well in a public speaking in a city television studio.
This will change as more and more educated , and well spoken Jats get involved.
What has happened on a positive note, is that the term Khap, Jat, panchayat has come to the fore , and is now known to every man woman and child in India.
I will venture to suggest that many Jats themselves were not familiar with these terms, until recently.
We can take advantage of this, by crafting and then getting our message across.
The question still arises why and with what motive a Jagmati Sangwan engages in such acts ,to attack the Jat community to which she claims to belong.
Jagmati Sangwan, while happy to attack the Jats and their marriage practices, from behind to safety of a media camera,( looking for a juicy story) withdrew from a scheduled participation on Pachauri’s last TV show., at the last minute.
One cannot help wonder why?
Problems within the community should be settled within the community.
A community is a social group, it has norms , boundaries.
If one does not follow the norms, one should leave the group. No one can force someone to be part of a social group.
A person cannot have t both ways, be part of the group, and yet not follow the norms and rules.
A number of personalities, including but not limited to Jagmati Sangwan, are washing their dirty linen in public.
The media , always on the lookout for a juicy story, has taken to this story. It sound good, ‘ honour killing’ ‘ kangaroo courts’ etc etc.
Rhetoric is rhetoric, and that will be dealt with in course of time. NO need to get too worked up on a bit of mud slinging.
We Jats being more than a little rustic, and rough in our clothes and speaking manner ,do not come across very well in a public speaking in a city television studio.
This will change as more and more educated , and well spoken Jats get involved.
What has happened on a positive note, is that the term Khap, Jat, panchayat has come to the fore , and is now known to every man woman and child in India.
I will venture to suggest that many Jats themselves were not familiar with these terms, until recently.
We can take advantage of this, by crafting and then getting our message across.
The question still arises why and with what motive a Jagmati Sangwan engages in such acts ,to attack the Jat community to which she claims to belong.
Jagmati Sangwan, while happy to attack the Jats and their marriage practices, from behind to safety of a media camera,( looking for a juicy story) withdrew from a scheduled participation on Pachauri’s last TV show., at the last minute.
One cannot help wonder why?
Problems within the community should be settled within the community.
A community is a social group, it has norms , boundaries.
If one does not follow the norms, one should leave the group. No one can force someone to be part of a social group.
A person cannot have t both ways, be part of the group, and yet not follow the norms and rules.
ravichaudhary
New member
Violence cannot be condoned, and is not. We all should , and do share the pain of the families who are involved in these tragic incidents.
We also need to rise above the choppy waters of the rhetoric that is flying around.
The core issue is
1) Are the marriage customs of the Jats going to be trampled on, and are the Jats going to accept that trampling.
The Jats may agree to that. However ,so far there are no signs that the Jat community is willing to accept same goth marriage, or for that matter even accept marriage in the same village.
Efforts by others to impose other marriage practices upon the Jats is being met by strong resistance.
Marriage customs are too personal an issue for a human being to walk away from., and it is unlikely a human being will walk away from it.
Ravi Chaudhary
We also need to rise above the choppy waters of the rhetoric that is flying around.
The core issue is
1) Are the marriage customs of the Jats going to be trampled on, and are the Jats going to accept that trampling.
The Jats may agree to that. However ,so far there are no signs that the Jat community is willing to accept same goth marriage, or for that matter even accept marriage in the same village.
Efforts by others to impose other marriage practices upon the Jats is being met by strong resistance.
Marriage customs are too personal an issue for a human being to walk away from., and it is unlikely a human being will walk away from it.
Ravi Chaudhary
Ravi Ji,
I don't think that even a single member here appreciated the idea of Same Gotra marriage. The issue was/is very simple that two people engaged in marriage relationship which was/is considered against the wishes/customs/traditions of their families. Some people took law in their hands and killed the couple. Consequencly, court punished the criminals who committed MURDERS.
If developments had stopped here nobody would have tried to make it a breaking news and topic of spicy write ups. But things didn't stopped there and so many people started involving themselves to get one or another type of mileage from this.
People are talking about amendment in Hindu Marriage Act. Do you think that it will solve the problem ? When people are not respecting the punishment given by the Indian court then how can you conclude that amendment would do the needful. If people are not respecting the LAW now then what's guarantee that they will give it proper respect in future.
If we jats are little rustic, rough in speaking manner, lack public speech abilities then whose faults is this. Is it our drawback or media fault. How can you blame media for this ? If we speak rough, people will consider us the same or do we need some compensation for being rustic, rude and bad speakers ?
It hardly matters that what some Mr. X or Miss Y are saying on Z channel. Who provides the juicy story to the Media ?
I agree with you that 'Problems within the community should be settled within the community'. Are we ready to solve the problems with a open mind or just want to impose our decisions ?
You are right that community is a social structure and it has its own norms and boundries. If someone does not follow that norms then he\she should leave. Expelling someone from the community, or imposing some social punishments seems right and practical way to deal with the people who disobey the norms but NOBODY has the RIGHT TO KILL anyone. When two people were murdered, its more than just a family or community matter and Law automatically finds valid grounds to interfere.
Media making is spicy due the stance taken by Khap Panchayat in support of the people who killed the couple. Had the khap condemned the act and tried to settle the issue within Jat community nobody would have uttered a word on channels. But these khaps meetings happens with some poors shows in the name of Jat Unity and then our leaders rustic behaviour on channels is not impressive by any means. Its like 'when we dont have any arguments abuse the plentiff'.
Nobody is attacking us but we are exposing ourselves to the Media and the people.
If we are not ready to listen and learn anything then we should not complain abaut the teaching methods.
I don't think that even a single member here appreciated the idea of Same Gotra marriage. The issue was/is very simple that two people engaged in marriage relationship which was/is considered against the wishes/customs/traditions of their families. Some people took law in their hands and killed the couple. Consequencly, court punished the criminals who committed MURDERS.
If developments had stopped here nobody would have tried to make it a breaking news and topic of spicy write ups. But things didn't stopped there and so many people started involving themselves to get one or another type of mileage from this.
People are talking about amendment in Hindu Marriage Act. Do you think that it will solve the problem ? When people are not respecting the punishment given by the Indian court then how can you conclude that amendment would do the needful. If people are not respecting the LAW now then what's guarantee that they will give it proper respect in future.
If we jats are little rustic, rough in speaking manner, lack public speech abilities then whose faults is this. Is it our drawback or media fault. How can you blame media for this ? If we speak rough, people will consider us the same or do we need some compensation for being rustic, rude and bad speakers ?
It hardly matters that what some Mr. X or Miss Y are saying on Z channel. Who provides the juicy story to the Media ?
I agree with you that 'Problems within the community should be settled within the community'. Are we ready to solve the problems with a open mind or just want to impose our decisions ?
You are right that community is a social structure and it has its own norms and boundries. If someone does not follow that norms then he\she should leave. Expelling someone from the community, or imposing some social punishments seems right and practical way to deal with the people who disobey the norms but NOBODY has the RIGHT TO KILL anyone. When two people were murdered, its more than just a family or community matter and Law automatically finds valid grounds to interfere.
Media making is spicy due the stance taken by Khap Panchayat in support of the people who killed the couple. Had the khap condemned the act and tried to settle the issue within Jat community nobody would have uttered a word on channels. But these khaps meetings happens with some poors shows in the name of Jat Unity and then our leaders rustic behaviour on channels is not impressive by any means. Its like 'when we dont have any arguments abuse the plentiff'.
Nobody is attacking us but we are exposing ourselves to the Media and the people.
If we are not ready to listen and learn anything then we should not complain abaut the teaching methods.
ravichaudhary
New member
Vijay
What the change to the Hindu Marriage Act will do is to:
legally recognize the Jat custom, of no marriage in the same goth.
The Act was created in 1955 by Nehru and Co
Prior to this Act, the Hindu customary law prevailed, and ‘sa- gothra’ Same gotra marriages were not acceptable.
While Hindu Gotra and Jat Goth are not synonymous, ( the first being mythical ,and the second being a family line or clan), it was accepted practice that marriage in the same family line was taboo.
This practice did not allow for the 1st cousin marriage practices of some South India communities.
That is the prime reason the Act was created, and bulldozed through by Nehru
. It caters to the South Indian practices which allowed marriage in the same family line, unless the specious clause that local custom where it prevails would supersede the provisions Act.
However the Act did not cover the Jat customs, nor were the Jats consulted.
This has resulted in the courts giving sanctity to such same goth/family line marriages, and allowing those to break the custom with impunity.
One such case was a recent case last year, where Delhi Judge told the Jat parents of the girl, that the marriage was legal and valid under Hindu law, and the parents should not interfere.
The parents pleaded that they had other daughters to marry off, and they would be ostracized in society, if the court supported such marriages.
This plea fell on deaf ears.
The judge was correct, in that the judge was following the legal letter of the Law.
Question arose then and now what remedy do the parents, and the Jat Samaj have?
Can such a law be allowed to stand?
It should also be kept in mind that this law was created without any consultation with the Jat community. A law created without consultation of those who it affects cannot be a just law.
In a social group – a person is ostracized for not following group norms. Here Indian Law would seek to prevent such ostracization. It would insist on the offending couple to be given police protection, to enable them to carry on acts of breaking norms , without any consequence.
That, in a village society, where everything is raw and out in the open, can and will create problems.
The Jat community is now raising its voice in protest, against the unfairness of such a law.
An unjust law, is not a Law.
We should also understand the causes of the problem, before rushing to judgment against the village society.
Ravi Chaudhary
.
What the change to the Hindu Marriage Act will do is to:
legally recognize the Jat custom, of no marriage in the same goth.
The Act was created in 1955 by Nehru and Co
Prior to this Act, the Hindu customary law prevailed, and ‘sa- gothra’ Same gotra marriages were not acceptable.
While Hindu Gotra and Jat Goth are not synonymous, ( the first being mythical ,and the second being a family line or clan), it was accepted practice that marriage in the same family line was taboo.
This practice did not allow for the 1st cousin marriage practices of some South India communities.
That is the prime reason the Act was created, and bulldozed through by Nehru
. It caters to the South Indian practices which allowed marriage in the same family line, unless the specious clause that local custom where it prevails would supersede the provisions Act.
However the Act did not cover the Jat customs, nor were the Jats consulted.
This has resulted in the courts giving sanctity to such same goth/family line marriages, and allowing those to break the custom with impunity.
One such case was a recent case last year, where Delhi Judge told the Jat parents of the girl, that the marriage was legal and valid under Hindu law, and the parents should not interfere.
The parents pleaded that they had other daughters to marry off, and they would be ostracized in society, if the court supported such marriages.
This plea fell on deaf ears.
The judge was correct, in that the judge was following the legal letter of the Law.
Question arose then and now what remedy do the parents, and the Jat Samaj have?
Can such a law be allowed to stand?
It should also be kept in mind that this law was created without any consultation with the Jat community. A law created without consultation of those who it affects cannot be a just law.
In a social group – a person is ostracized for not following group norms. Here Indian Law would seek to prevent such ostracization. It would insist on the offending couple to be given police protection, to enable them to carry on acts of breaking norms , without any consequence.
That, in a village society, where everything is raw and out in the open, can and will create problems.
The Jat community is now raising its voice in protest, against the unfairness of such a law.
An unjust law, is not a Law.
We should also understand the causes of the problem, before rushing to judgment against the village society.
Ravi Chaudhary
.
ravichaudhary
New member
What law ?
In this case of the Pathak girl, the boyfriend, is being charged by the Police under directions of the Indian court of Rape etc etc. The court is bending over backwards to shift blame away from the family of the girl, to the boyfriend- who is described as being from a lower caste.
.
The Court is not attacking the Brahmin community for such an Act, or for that matter, talking up the fact that the Indian constitution forbids discrimination against anyone or by anyone, for caste or creed.
Contrast this with the treatment to Jats.
Ravi Chaudhary
******************
File FIR against scribe's boyfriend: Court to police
Court orders probe against Nirupama's boyfriend
RANCHI: A Jharkhand court on Friday directed police to lodge a first information report (FIR) against Priyabhanshu Ranjan, boyfriend of Delhi scribe Nirupama Pathak who died under mysterious circumstances April 29.
The court directed police to lodge an FIR against Ranjan under different sections of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), including sexually exploiting Nirupama Pathak, misleading her for marriage and forcing her to commit suicide.
Chief Judicial Magistrate (CJM) N.K. Agrawal passed the order while hearing a petition filed by Nirupama's mother Sudha Pathak. Nirupama's family insists that she committed suicide. But the post-mortem examination revealed she was murdered by smothering and that she was 10-12 weeks pregnant.
The family has admitted that they were opposed to Nirupama's planned marriage with Ranjan, her former batchmate at the Indian Institute of Mass Communication (IIMC).
The family members have also alleged that Ranjan was influencing the probe and a rape case should be lodged against him.
Sudha Patahak who was arrested May 1 was released on a three-day parole at the directive of the court. Sudha Patahak in her petition had charged that Ranjan sexually exploited Nirupama by alluring her with marriage.
Koderma police Thursday night interrogated Ranjan in New Delhi for five hours and reportedly seized his mobile phone. Police also took possession of clothes and other belongings used by Nirupama in Delhi.
The journalist's father and brothers were also being questioned in what some believe to be a case of "honour killing".
Nirupama's father Dharmendra Patahak and brother Samrendra are both government officers working in Gonda and Mumbai, respectively.
Koderma police have also interrogated Kedar who is Nirupama's maternal uncle. Kedar is a contractor in Bihar's Bara district and he was reportedly against Nirupama's marriage with Ranjan.
On Thursday, K.P. Singh, one of the three doctors who conducted the autopsy on Nirupama, said he did not have the requisite qualification to conduct the post-mortem examination that he had conducted for the first time in his career.
According to police sources, the three-doctor team that conducted the autopsy did not mention the time of death of the journalist. They also did not preserve the viscera and foetus which was important for the investigation. The foetus could have disclosed the identity of the father.
In this case of the Pathak girl, the boyfriend, is being charged by the Police under directions of the Indian court of Rape etc etc. The court is bending over backwards to shift blame away from the family of the girl, to the boyfriend- who is described as being from a lower caste.
.
The Court is not attacking the Brahmin community for such an Act, or for that matter, talking up the fact that the Indian constitution forbids discrimination against anyone or by anyone, for caste or creed.
Contrast this with the treatment to Jats.
Ravi Chaudhary
******************
File FIR against scribe's boyfriend: Court to police
Court orders probe against Nirupama's boyfriend
RANCHI: A Jharkhand court on Friday directed police to lodge a first information report (FIR) against Priyabhanshu Ranjan, boyfriend of Delhi scribe Nirupama Pathak who died under mysterious circumstances April 29.
The court directed police to lodge an FIR against Ranjan under different sections of the Indian Penal Code (IPC), including sexually exploiting Nirupama Pathak, misleading her for marriage and forcing her to commit suicide.
Chief Judicial Magistrate (CJM) N.K. Agrawal passed the order while hearing a petition filed by Nirupama's mother Sudha Pathak. Nirupama's family insists that she committed suicide. But the post-mortem examination revealed she was murdered by smothering and that she was 10-12 weeks pregnant.
The family has admitted that they were opposed to Nirupama's planned marriage with Ranjan, her former batchmate at the Indian Institute of Mass Communication (IIMC).
The family members have also alleged that Ranjan was influencing the probe and a rape case should be lodged against him.
Sudha Patahak who was arrested May 1 was released on a three-day parole at the directive of the court. Sudha Patahak in her petition had charged that Ranjan sexually exploited Nirupama by alluring her with marriage.
Koderma police Thursday night interrogated Ranjan in New Delhi for five hours and reportedly seized his mobile phone. Police also took possession of clothes and other belongings used by Nirupama in Delhi.
The journalist's father and brothers were also being questioned in what some believe to be a case of "honour killing".
Nirupama's father Dharmendra Patahak and brother Samrendra are both government officers working in Gonda and Mumbai, respectively.
Koderma police have also interrogated Kedar who is Nirupama's maternal uncle. Kedar is a contractor in Bihar's Bara district and he was reportedly against Nirupama's marriage with Ranjan.
On Thursday, K.P. Singh, one of the three doctors who conducted the autopsy on Nirupama, said he did not have the requisite qualification to conduct the post-mortem examination that he had conducted for the first time in his career.
According to police sources, the three-doctor team that conducted the autopsy did not mention the time of death of the journalist. They also did not preserve the viscera and foetus which was important for the investigation. The foetus could have disclosed the identity of the father.
Ravi ji,
Drafting a law for Jat community wont be easy, because it is not just a problem of same gotra marriage but marriage within village and neighboring villages is also there. I do not think any govt will bring in a law that would forbid the marriage in other gotra from same village. So the problem would still be there.
Drafting a law for Jat community wont be easy, because it is not just a problem of same gotra marriage but marriage within village and neighboring villages is also there. I do not think any govt will bring in a law that would forbid the marriage in other gotra from same village. So the problem would still be there.
Vijay
What the change to the Hindu Marriage Act will do is to:
legally recognize the Jat custom, of no marriage in the same goth.
The Act was created in 1955 by Nehru and Co
Prior to this Act, the Hindu customary law prevailed, and ‘sa- gothra’ Same gotra marriages were not acceptable.
While Hindu Gotra and Jat Goth are not synonymous, ( the first being mythical ,and the second being a family line or clan), it was accepted practice that marriage in the same family line was taboo.
This practice did not allow for the 1st cousin marriage practices of some South India communities.
That is the prime reason the Act was created, and bulldozed through by Nehru
. It caters to the South Indian practices which allowed marriage in the same family line, unless the specious clause that local custom where it prevails would supersede the provisions Act.
However the Act did not cover the Jat customs, nor were the Jats consulted.
This has resulted in the courts giving sanctity to such same goth/family line marriages, and allowing those to break the custom with impunity.
One such case was a recent case last year, where Delhi Judge told the Jat parents of the girl, that the marriage was legal and valid under Hindu law, and the parents should not interfere.
The parents pleaded that they had other daughters to marry off, and they would be ostracized in society, if the court supported such marriages.
This plea fell on deaf ears.
The judge was correct, in that the judge was following the legal letter of the Law.
Question arose then and now what remedy do the parents, and the Jat Samaj have?
Can such a law be allowed to stand?
It should also be kept in mind that this law was created without any consultation with the Jat community. A law created without consultation of those who it affects cannot be a just law.
In a social group – a person is ostracized for not following group norms. Here Indian Law would seek to prevent such ostracization. It would insist on the offending couple to be given police protection, to enable them to carry on acts of breaking norms , without any consequence.
That, in a village society, where everything is raw and out in the open, can and will create problems.
The Jat community is now raising its voice in protest, against the unfairness of such a law.
An unjust law, is not a Law.
We should also understand the causes of the problem, before rushing to judgment against the village society.
Ravi Chaudhary
.
ravichaudhary
New member
Ravi ji,
Drafting a law for Jat community wont be easy, because it is not just a problem of same gotra marriage but marriage within village and neighboring villages is also there. I do not think any govt will bring in a law that would forbid the marriage in other gotra from same village. So the problem would still be there.
Dear Vijay and others
What you are missing is that , it was and is already Jat law, and has been the case for thousands of years.
What is happening is that other people, are enforcing their version of law on the Jats.
The only question is will the Jats fight for their customs or not?
Whoever said it would be easy?
Ravi Chaudhary
Ravi Ji,
As per our traditions and customs, Jats are avoiding marriage in same gotra since thousands years. People are following the custom since then without any written law or constitution. There are also possibilities that few people not obeying this custom and got punished by their families or panchayats. I don't know what type of punishments they used to practice but i am certain that there is a huge difference between the Jat society of those days and present days. Long back a killers were treated as winners but now killers are treated as crminals and there is written law to punish them.
Well, we Jats are asking for the Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act for Jats. Next Day, Rajputs will start compaign for it then Sikhs, Brahmins, Yadav etc. Infact, most of the couunities in North India don't marry in their own gotra and all are spposed to follow the path taked by Jats. This will create another bigger issue like Reservation where every community is demanding their inclusion. Every community will start demanding separete amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act for their respective communities.
Next, the villege itself not a self-explanatory term if we consider amendment on the basis of villege society. What is a villege. How it is decided whether some place is Dhani, villege or town or what ? ( I am asking as per law ). Is there any specific criterion or parameters which are supposed to fulfill to consider some place as a villege. There are villeges where population is just 100 people ( or even less ) while there are villeges where population exceeds 10,000 ( while some towns consisting of population of 5000 ). So, Jats residing in a same town ( population of 5,000) can engage themselves in marriage relationship ( avoiding three gotras ) while jats residing in a villege of population 10,000 shouldn't engange in marriage relationship. Morever, there are many villege abnormalities like twin villeges, a set of small villeges being considered as a Villege etc.
There are so many big villeges where more than 100 gotras of Jats are residing. So, what gotra's should be avoided tomarry in such a villege or what gotras should be avoided by the people of those villeges ? The term 'surrounding villeges' makes the scenario much more difficult as the limit of 'surrounding villeges' seems endless and depends on the person to person and villege to villege. Every villege is surrounded by many villeges and those villeges are also surrounded by so many villeges and so on. So, where this surroundedness ends ?
If we are talking about the same gotra marriage only, then it is practiced uniformally among Jat community all across the country. But if we are talking about the issue of same villege, Kheda, same gotra villeges then less then 10% to total jat community follows it. This custom is practiced in only Khap dominated area of few districts of Haryana or maybe little bit in Western UP. Rest of Jats don't practice it and the percentage of this rest Jats population is approx 90% ( Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Western Haryana, UP, Himachal, Madhya Pradesh, Gujrat etc consistes of 90% of total Jat population ).
Would you like to consider Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act according to the statewise ( or areawise customs of Jats ) as there are no uniform customs among the Jat community.
As per our traditions and customs, Jats are avoiding marriage in same gotra since thousands years. People are following the custom since then without any written law or constitution. There are also possibilities that few people not obeying this custom and got punished by their families or panchayats. I don't know what type of punishments they used to practice but i am certain that there is a huge difference between the Jat society of those days and present days. Long back a killers were treated as winners but now killers are treated as crminals and there is written law to punish them.
Well, we Jats are asking for the Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act for Jats. Next Day, Rajputs will start compaign for it then Sikhs, Brahmins, Yadav etc. Infact, most of the couunities in North India don't marry in their own gotra and all are spposed to follow the path taked by Jats. This will create another bigger issue like Reservation where every community is demanding their inclusion. Every community will start demanding separete amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act for their respective communities.
Next, the villege itself not a self-explanatory term if we consider amendment on the basis of villege society. What is a villege. How it is decided whether some place is Dhani, villege or town or what ? ( I am asking as per law ). Is there any specific criterion or parameters which are supposed to fulfill to consider some place as a villege. There are villeges where population is just 100 people ( or even less ) while there are villeges where population exceeds 10,000 ( while some towns consisting of population of 5000 ). So, Jats residing in a same town ( population of 5,000) can engage themselves in marriage relationship ( avoiding three gotras ) while jats residing in a villege of population 10,000 shouldn't engange in marriage relationship. Morever, there are many villege abnormalities like twin villeges, a set of small villeges being considered as a Villege etc.
There are so many big villeges where more than 100 gotras of Jats are residing. So, what gotra's should be avoided tomarry in such a villege or what gotras should be avoided by the people of those villeges ? The term 'surrounding villeges' makes the scenario much more difficult as the limit of 'surrounding villeges' seems endless and depends on the person to person and villege to villege. Every villege is surrounded by many villeges and those villeges are also surrounded by so many villeges and so on. So, where this surroundedness ends ?
If we are talking about the same gotra marriage only, then it is practiced uniformally among Jat community all across the country. But if we are talking about the issue of same villege, Kheda, same gotra villeges then less then 10% to total jat community follows it. This custom is practiced in only Khap dominated area of few districts of Haryana or maybe little bit in Western UP. Rest of Jats don't practice it and the percentage of this rest Jats population is approx 90% ( Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Western Haryana, UP, Himachal, Madhya Pradesh, Gujrat etc consistes of 90% of total Jat population ).
Would you like to consider Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act according to the statewise ( or areawise customs of Jats ) as there are no uniform customs among the Jat community.
What law ?
In this case of the Pathak girl, the boyfriend, is being charged by the Police under directions of the Indian court of Rape etc etc. The court is bending over backwards to shift blame away from the family of the girl, to the boyfriend- who is described as being from a lower caste.
.
The Court is not attacking the Brahmin community for such an Act, or for that matter, talking up the fact that the Indian constitution forbids discrimination against anyone or by anyone, for caste or creed.
Contrast this with the treatment to Jats.
Ravi Chaudhary
Media didn't spiced up this Pathak case because court is doing its work as per Indian Law. Pathak's didn't invited their Khaps to bash at the married couple. Pathak Khaps never blamed media or Hindu Marriage Act for this case. Neither they called the people from four or five states to start a agitation against the court or government. Nobody said that killers are innocent and volunteers of Pathak community. Nobody asked for a 10 Rs contribution to fight the case for the killers. Nobody threatened the Judge who was/is looking upon the case.
All things happened in this JAT case and so are the consequences. Instead of accepting our poor handling of the matter, we are bashing at everybody who is telling us that we are at the wrong path. Our fellow community members who are talking about our faults are considered as nakli jats or traitors. Does the people who don't have any patience to listen others point of views deserves to be the leader of our community. Can they show us the right way ?
Morever, I will appreciate if you could provide any statement from Supreme court or High court where they openly attacked or bashed at the Jat community ?
yatinder19
New member
Media didn't spiced up this Pathak case because court is doing its work as per Indian Law.
You are 100% write...Fully agree with you...
Ravi Ji,
As per our traditions and customs, Jats are avoiding marriage in same gotra since thousands years. People are following the custom since then without any written law or constitution. There are also possibilities that few people not obeying this custom and got punished by their families or panchayats. I don't know what type of punishments they used to practice but i am certain that there is a huge difference between the Jat society of those days and present days. Long back a killers were treated as winners but now killers are treated as crminals and there is written law to punish them.
Well, we Jats are asking for the Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act for Jats. Next Day, Rajputs will start compaign for it then Sikhs, Brahmins, Yadav etc. Infact, most of the couunities in North India don't marry in their own gotra and all are spposed to follow the path taked by Jats. This will create another bigger issue like Reservation where every community is demanding their inclusion. Every community will start demanding separete amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act for their respective communities.
Next, the villege itself not a self-explanatory term if we consider amendment on the basis of villege society. What is a villege. How it is decided whether some place is Dhani, villege or town or what ? ( I am asking as per law ). Is there any specific criterion or parameters which are supposed to fulfill to consider some place as a villege. There are villeges where population is just 100 people ( or even less ) while there are villeges where population exceeds 10,000 ( while some towns consisting of population of 5000 ). So, Jats residing in a same town ( population of 5,000) can engage themselves in marriage relationship ( avoiding three gotras ) while jats residing in a villege of population 10,000 shouldn't engange in marriage relationship. Morever, there are many villege abnormalities like twin villeges, a set of small villeges being considered as a Villege etc.
There are so many big villeges where more than 100 gotras of Jats are residing. So, what gotra's should be avoided tomarry in such a villege or what gotras should be avoided by the people of those villeges ? The term 'surrounding villeges' makes the scenario much more difficult as the limit of 'surrounding villeges' seems endless and depends on the person to person and villege to villege. Every villege is surrounded by many villeges and those villeges are also surrounded by so many villeges and so on. So, where this surroundedness ends ?
If we are talking about the same gotra marriage only, then it is practiced uniformally among Jat community all across the country. But if we are talking about the issue of same villege, Kheda, same gotra villeges then less then 10% to total jat community follows it. This custom is practiced in only Khap dominated area of few districts of Haryana or maybe little bit in Western UP. Rest of Jats don't practice it and the percentage of this rest Jats population is approx 90% ( Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Western Haryana, UP, Himachal, Madhya Pradesh, Gujrat etc consistes of 90% of total Jat population ).
Would you like to consider Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act according to the statewise ( or areawise customs of Jats ) as there are no uniform customs among the Jat community.
Vijay, you have covered the points very well, & I agree with you. Only thing which is possible & justified is amendment of the law for same gotra marriages. There is provision in Hindu marriage Act, it can be amended by the centre for all states or state can also amend it, rest neither possible nor practical. As for as the media is concern, in 1996, my khap took a decision in one of the village near sonipat on such marriage, the entire media appreciated the decision, so you do have a point here also.. I have mentioned earlier also that our panchayats are neither doing their home work nor conducting the meeting & handling the media, well. regards
ravichaudhary
New member
Media didn't spiced up this Pathak case because court is doing its work as per Indian Law. Pathak's didn't invited their Khaps to bash at the married couple. Pathak Khaps never blamed media or Hindu Marriage Act for this case. Neither they called the people from four or five states to start a agitation against the court or government. Nobody said that killers are innocent and volunteers of Pathak community. Nobody asked for a 10 Rs contribution to fight the case for the killers. Nobody threatened the Judge who was/is looking upon the case.
All things happened in this JAT case and so are the consequences. Instead of accepting our poor handling of the matter, we are bashing at everybody who is telling us that we are at the wrong path. Our fellow community members who are talking about our faults are considered as nakli jats or traitors. Does the people who don't have any patience to listen others point of views deserves to be the leader of our community. Can they show us the right way ?
Morever, I will appreciate if you could provide any statement from Supreme court or High court where they openly attacked or bashed at the Jat community ?
Even Kamini Lau in her judgment same goth marriage, , supporting same goth marriage was following " Indian Law"
Do you want us to agree with this " Indian Law"?
Let us see how the Pathak case pans out? Give it an year.
Right now the boy has had a court ordered FIR registered against him for rape. Very interesting.
The poor handling etc I completely agree with, and that is something hopefully that will change as more and more articulate Jats get involved.
Ravi Chaudhary
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ravichaudhary
New member
Ravi Ji,
As per our traditions and customs, Jats are avoiding marriage in same gotra since thousands years. People are following the custom since then without any written law or constitution. There are also possibilities that few people not obeying this custom and got punished by their families or panchayats. I don't know what type of punishments they used to practice but i am certain that there is a huge difference between the Jat society of those days and present days. Long back a killers were treated as winners but now killers are treated as crminals and there is written law to punish them.
Well, we Jats are asking for the Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act for Jats. Next Day, Rajputs will start compaign for it then Sikhs, Brahmins, Yadav etc. Infact, most of the couunities in North India don't marry in their own gotra and all are spposed to follow the path taked by Jats. This will create another bigger issue like Reservation where every community is demanding their inclusion. Every community will start demanding separete amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act for their respective communities.
Next, the villege itself not a self-explanatory term if we consider amendment on the basis of villege society. What is a villege. How it is decided whether some place is Dhani, villege or town or what ? ( I am asking as per law ). Is there any specific criterion or parameters which are supposed to fulfill to consider some place as a villege. There are villeges where population is just 100 people ( or even less ) while there are villeges where population exceeds 10,000 ( while some towns consisting of population of 5000 ). So, Jats residing in a same town ( population of 5,000) can engage themselves in marriage relationship ( avoiding three gotras ) while jats residing in a villege of population 10,000 shouldn't engange in marriage relationship. Morever, there are many villege abnormalities like twin villeges, a set of small villeges being considered as a Villege etc.
There are so many big villeges where more than 100 gotras of Jats are residing. So, what gotra's should be avoided tomarry in such a villege or what gotras should be avoided by the people of those villeges ? The term 'surrounding villeges' makes the scenario much more difficult as the limit of 'surrounding villeges' seems endless and depends on the person to person and villege to villege. Every villege is surrounded by many villeges and those villeges are also surrounded by so many villeges and so on. So, where this surroundedness ends ?
If we are talking about the same gotra marriage only, then it is practiced uniformally among Jat community all across the country. But if we are talking about the issue of same villege, Kheda, same gotra villeges then less then 10% to total jat community follows it. This custom is practiced in only Khap dominated area of few districts of Haryana or maybe little bit in Western UP. Rest of Jats don't practice it and the percentage of this rest Jats population is approx 90% ( Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Western Haryana, UP, Himachal, Madhya Pradesh, Gujrat etc consistes of 90% of total Jat population ).
Would you like to consider Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act according to the statewise ( or areawise customs of Jats ) as there are no uniform customs among the Jat community.
A long post by you with valid points.
Customs will evolve. to accomodate large villages, now small towns.
The same village custom I suspect was created for small villages not small towns.
With increased mobility in society, I expect this custom to change. From information I am receiving this is already changing.
I am however not prepared to thrust my views upon those in a village who do not agree with people marrying within the same village, in the name of some " Indian law"
I will howver suggest that if one wishes to live in a village, then one must be prepared to follow the village norms.
Ravi Chaudhary
See this:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-honour-killing-in-UP/articleshow/5905997.cms
This happened in Muzaffarnagar. A case of Tomar girl in love with a Saini boy. Honour killings dont follow any norms or guidelines. It just depend on the perception of a family what they term as honour. Surely no panchayat or khap would have been involved in this as it involves out of caste. If there is an amendment to law, would it stop such killings? NO, so why should Indian Govt yield when any such amendment wont stop such murders?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-honour-killing-in-UP/articleshow/5905997.cms
This happened in Muzaffarnagar. A case of Tomar girl in love with a Saini boy. Honour killings dont follow any norms or guidelines. It just depend on the perception of a family what they term as honour. Surely no panchayat or khap would have been involved in this as it involves out of caste. If there is an amendment to law, would it stop such killings? NO, so why should Indian Govt yield when any such amendment wont stop such murders?
sanjaymalik
New member
See this:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-honour-killing-in-UP/articleshow/5905997.cms
This happened in Muzaffarnagar. A case of Tomar girl in love with a Saini boy. Honour killings dont follow any norms or guidelines. It just depend on the perception of a family what they term as honour. Surely no panchayat or khap would have been involved in this as it involves out of caste. If there is an amendment to law, would it stop such killings? NO, so why should Indian Govt yield when any such amendment wont stop such murders?
vijay i think here we are concern about the marriage in same gotra and seeking amendment in this respect not for honour killing.
These are all inclusive issues. That's why I raised this here. Why would a govt will make an amendment in law when they know that the problem of honour killing would still be there. See if from a different perspective. There is already law that permits hindu marriages among cousins and South Indians follow that custom. Inspite of law being there to protect such marriages do we see these happening in North India? Answer is NO.
vijay i think here we are concern about the marriage in same gotra and seeking amendment in this respect not for honour killing.
sanjaymalik
New member
These are all inclusive issues. That's why I raised this here. Why would a govt will make an amendment in law when they know that the problem of honour killing would still be there. See if from a different perspective. There is already law that permits hindu marriages among cousins and South Indians follow that custom. Inspite of law being there to protect such marriages do we see these happening in North India? Answer is NO.
This custom of not to be married in first cousins followed by south india which was a custom among south indian, and was duly incorporated in the Hindu Marriage Act by our law maker at time of enactment of this Act.then why our north indian customs can not be incorporated through Amendment while the same have long stading usage. Honour killing and marriage within the same gotra are two different perspective.