Is modernity in conflict with our traditions?

[arvindc]

What is the definition of Modernity?

It may mean one of more of the following to different set of people:
– everything that one can see in media.
– Everything that is called western (western is another misnomer)
– Wearing jeans and tops (shorter = more modern) with sunglasses, coat paints and a tie (in summers as well).
– going to malls, multiplexes and expensive bars
– live-in relationships, polygamy (one night marriages) and having intimate relationships with girlfriends/boyfriends (not just friends) in schools.
– Jatland.com, Mobile phones (ways of communicating/socializing) hybrid seeds, new medicines - That is improved technology
– Speaking English, watching English movies, singing English songs and everything that is English.
– Environment friendly detergents, environment friendly houses and lifestyles.

In my view let’s not debate on what ‘modernity’ means (a lot of people have researched on this term with definitions varying from “Age of Enlightenment” to “the loss of certainty”. More at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernity ) instead, rephrase the subject to a specific issue.

 

[brahmtewatia]

there is no definition of modernity. its an exothermic reaction caused by the collision of grey cells in an individual's hollowsphere and their stimulation to changing times.

... brahm p. tewatia

 

[anilsinghd]

Yes sure it is the modern life style which tends to drive people towards immoral acts like illicit relations and other sins. I agree such tendencies have been persisting through all the ages but there is a difference. It is very hard to avoid illicit relations, but today it is going out of limit in so called moderns. Mostly people in this world have more than one partner throughout the life, but in India people don't want their children to indulge in illicit relations, which means they say to their kids that we couldn't avoid it but if you can then please don't do so. That is the Indian culture. If parents keep on warning against such immoral acts then good charactered people will be taking birth here. But in West parents don't give such teachings to their kids.
I would like to suggest that don't overestimate the science. Science had claimed some years back that a girl could be turned into a boy, but what happened? That claim proved baseless. These days science is again claiming something special. According to the scientists they are very near to invent such a pill which will enable the human being to live for more than 100 years. But science has no answer for that 82 year old Mataji who has been living for last 65 years without eating or drinking anything. Be educated as much as you can, but don't do such things to others what you don't want others to do with you. Will any body want that his sister has a number of boyfriends? If not, then why are you doing so with others' sisters? Will anybody want that his wife has post marital affairs? If not then why are you doing so with others' wives? Same thing for females. If there is some power running this world and we all are creations of that power, then surely that power punish who indulge in such immoral acts and good doers certainly are rewarded. I am just sharing views here, otherwise I am not going to worry if this whole world is busy in living life to the maximum.

For a normal mathematician like me , your statements do not make any sense or relevance to the topic. sorry about that!

Can you tell me how has the illicit relationships increased with time? Also can you depict a relationship between the two variables : "increase in illicit relationships" and " modern culture".

FYI: Modern culture means accepting new ideas, keeping your mind open , be willing for a good change etc.

Just because folks are degenerating does not mean that the concept is/was a bad one.

 

[anilsinghd]

.
.

24K worth statement, fully endorse !

There're a touchy difference between modernity and liberal thinking. For me modernity is to follow western culture blindly, being insensible and pretending to be extra cool without any substance.

My friend , your whole statement is conditioned on your statement in bold , underlined above! What modernity means for you does not have to do anything with waht the concept actually is! My 2 cents. Thanks,

 

[anilsinghd]

there is no definition of modernity. its an exothermic reaction caused by the collision of grey cells in an individual's hollowsphere and their stimulation to changing times.

... brahm p. tewatia

Please prove that the reaction is exothermic. Thanks.

 

[upendersingh]

For a normal mathematician like me , your statements do not make any sense or relevance to the topic. sorry about that!

I don't know why it is so. The topic is 'Is modernity in conflict with our traditions?' and my statement is irrelevent, I am amazed to know it. According to me my statement is fully relevent to the topic.

Can you tell me how has the illicit relationships increased with time? Also can you depict a relationship between the two variables : "increase in illicit relationships" and " modern culture".

When world was not developed scientifically, I think people were more attached with their traditions, but with the rise of science illicit relationships certainly increased with time. Earlier people thought that if you fall in illicit relationships like bad deeds, then it is not good, but with the rise of science people began getting misled. Science claims that there is no rebirth, no effect of good or bad karmas on life, all and everything is science. Science has created such techniques that a girl can be changed into a boy, science is very near to make a human being immortal, science has succeeded in preparing clones of any human being. All it means everything is science and thus concept of bad or good karmas is rubbish. Make as much illicit relations as you can, enjoy life as much as you can and if you feel that you are suffering than take a pill, your suffering will vanish. Who will or can not take the pill they will suffer despite of being good doers. Simple. So rise of science inspired people to 'enjoy' life to the fullest. I don't say it was not in ancient time, but it was not in such plenty as in modern time due to 'rise' of science. That's what I meant.

FYI: Modern culture means accepting new ideas, keeping your mind open , be willing for a good change etc.

Modern culture also includes that life is one. Science has developed so much that human being will be immortal soon (be it bad or good doers, you just need to take a pill) and thus concept of karmas is rubbish. If concept of karmas is rubbish then go for as much worldly pleasure as you can.

But do you think so that science has truly developed so much? According to me the modern culture has harmed more and benefitted less the human race. Science is just duping the world as sufferings of this world are increasing rather than decreasing. It is good to be modern, good to be educated but I think modern people are highly indulged in bad deeds as they have overestimated science.

Just because folks are degenerating does not mean that the concept is/was a bad one.

If folks are degenerating, it certainly indicated something is wrong somewhere. People are wandering in darkness and socalled educated class misleading them more as educated class believe that science has developed to the fullest. That is the root cause of degeneration of this world.

 

[anilsinghd]

I don't know why it is so. .

Okay , so you mean to say that before this "Science" came over and hijacked your "Good" world , people were not doing bad things or illicit relationships or following traditions because they feared that what will happen to them affter their life? Sounds interesting.

I have been a science student but do not remember a book which preached that we should enjoy life by having as many illicit relationships as I can. I do not think that many people believe in the immortality or the pill therapy that you talk about anyways. At least not till there is something substantial or something concrete.

Of the class of Science I attended , we were also taugh of things like holistic development , humanistic society , Science and humanism , Renewable energies and Science for the common good. I am not sure what class of Science you went to.

See i do not want to strentch the argument , but if Science created more work and folks want to do it , get stressed , then go for a after work drink , smoke all sort of crap and then sleep with ladies , it's not Science who preaches that. So let's put the blame on where it is deserved. As simple as that.

Let's not be knee -jerk in our reactions and give a bit of thought before blaming anybody.

I will take an example to make it clear (hopefully) for you:
1) Suppose you shift your house to the next door as mine.
2) I do not get a nice sleep becasue of stress at work.
3) I go out in the morning and blame you for my sleep.

I hope you understand what I am talking.

Thanks, anil

 

[cooljat]

Ohh, I see .. well, I state what I believe.
You have right to disagree but if you give ur statement that doesn't make the conceptual definition, official either !! ..

Cheers
Jit

My friend , your whole statement is conditioned on your statement in bold , underlined above! What modernity means for you does not have to do anything with waht the concept actually is! My 2 cents. Thanks,

 

[upendersingh]

Okay , so you mean to say that before this "Science" came over and hijacked your "Good" world , people were not doing bad things or illicit relationships or following traditions because they feared that what will happen to them affter their life? Sounds interesting.

The world was never good and it is not possible to be good for the whole world, but yeah certainly rise of Science gave new concept to this world to adopt. If you just want to misinterpret then I can't help it, but if you read my above posts carefully, you will clearly find there that people were doing bad things from the beginning of life on this planet, but with the rise of Science this tendency boosted up.

I have been a science student but do not remember a book which preached that we should enjoy life by having as many illicit relationships as I can. I do not think that many people believe in the immortality or the pill therapy that you talk about anyways. At least not till there is something substantial or something concrete.

Suppose if there are thousands of people live in your locality. There are two roads to your locality one easy and in-use and other supposingly dangerous and no one passes by there. Suppose one day you had to pass by that dangerous road and you found it easier way to your locality without any danger. Then you tell the people of your locality that this road is easier that the first one and not dangerous. You don't ask the people to use that easier road, but do you think you need to do so? People will start using that road without being asked to do so, because you have told them that you have passed by that road without any difficulty. So I think you have got what I want to convey. People are wise enough to observe.

Of the class of Science I attended , we were also taugh of things like holistic development , humanistic society , Science and humanism , Renewable energies and Science for the common good. I am not sure what class of Science you went to.

You seem some exceptional Science student, your signature also shows it. Otherwise a true Scientist or Science student has nothing to do with Kabirvani or alike stuff. Americans, Europeans are the real Science students and look at divorce rate and illicit relations rate there. Even so called moderns in India can't emulate them so far, though many are trying to do so here.

See i do not want to strentch the argument , but if Science created more work and folks want to do it , get stressed , then go for a after work drink , smoke all sort of crap and then sleep with ladies , it's not Science who preaches that. So let's put the blame on where it is deserved. As simple as that.

You stretch the arguement as much as you can. No problem. So you opine that if Science has created more work and folks want to do it then....sleep with ladies. As I have mentioned above if Science claims to invent a pill which will enable human being to live for more than 100 years then no need to preach so that indulge in abovementioned bad deeds. People are wise enough to get that it is all science and no need to worry at all. I am not against Science. I am against those Science tycoons who have been presenting Science the omnipotent misleading the masses for a long time.

Let's not be knee -jerk in our reactions and give a bit of thought before blaming anybody.

I will take an example to make it clear (hopefully) for you:
1) Suppose you shift your house to the next door as mine.
2) I do not get a nice sleep becasue of stress at work.
3) I go out in the morning and blame you for my sleep.

I hope you understand what I am talking.

Thanks, anil

Yeah, I have understood what you are talking about. But your this 3 pointed example makes no sense to me. If I have made no problem to you then you will never blame upon me for your insomnia problem if you have even a little sense. If you do so then I will laugh upon you and ask you to put some solid logic for you complaint. You will fail then and I will be relaxed and alert too that I have some tough neighbour.
Who are moderns, mostly of them support Science and give a damn to the spirituality. Now I ask you what do you think about life here.
What should be the mode of living here according to you?
Is illicit relationship is not bad?
Is life really one?
Were Lord Krishna, Lord Rama, Lord Shiva never born on this planet and are they just imaginary figures?
Do karmas have some significance or not?
What is science, which claims that the scientists will soon be able to prepare a pill which will enable human being to live for more than 100 years?
Let the arguement stretch.

Regards

 

[vijay]

The world was never good and it is not possible to be good for the whole world, but yeah certainly rise of Science gave new concept to this world to adopt.

So, in your opinion, Science should be discarded and should be treated like an evil scripture and Scientist should be severely punished.

You seem some exceptional Science student, your signature also shows it. Otherwise a true Scientist or Science student has nothing to do with Kabirvani or alike stuff. Americans, Europeans are the real Science students and look at divorce rate and illicit relations rate there. Even so called moderns in India can't emulate them so far, though many are trying to do so here.

Have you ever read any book by a well known scientist ? Dr. Chriastian Bernard preyed to God before doing the first heart transplant operation. Khayyam wrote a lot of Rubai's in praise of the Almighty. ( for your kind information Khayyam who is well known for his poetry was basically a great mathematician and architect ). Einstein used to remember God before doing anything important. So many brilliant scholars and scientists reads Vedas to find solution to their queries.

So according to you, they are not true scientists and are not real science students.

Have you any database about the lives of scientists who had illicit relationships and divorce cases ? If Science is such bad for the society then Scientists should be the role model of a bad person.

Who are moderns, mostly of them support Science and give a damn to the spirituality.

Firstly, you should decide about your most hated list. Are they modernist or scientists ?

What should be the mode of living here according to you?

Live your life as you like instead of poking your nose into other people's lives.

Is illicit relationship is not bad?

Who is advocating illicit behavior here ?

Is life really one?

How many lives you have ?

Were Lord Krishna, Lord Rama, Lord Shiva never born on this planet and are they just imaginary figures?

If you believe then only Science can prove that.

Do karmas have some significance or not?

Your decision talking abilities in present would decide your future ... as simple as that.

What is science, which claims that the scientists will soon be able to prepare a pill which will enable human being to live for more than 100 years?

What's wrong with this if this happens ?

In Ancient times, people used to die of diseases and science found medicines to cure those diseases.

Thankfully, people of those times were not that stupid to say "These bloody scientists are inventing the cure of all the diseases and corrupting our people."

 

[upendersingh]

I am not against Science. I am against those Science tycoons who have been presenting Science the omnipotent misleading the masses for a long time.

Mr. Vijay, it is not fair that you didn't qoute my above words in your reply, but yet I will reply your post as soon as I have enough time.

 

[upendersingh]

Hon'ble Vijay, as far as I have enough time for replying your post, I am pasting one of my old posts here. I know you may not agree with the points mentioned in it, but yet I am pasting it here:

यह जीवन ऐश लेने के लिए नहीं है​

आजकल जीवन के प्रति एक नज़रिया बहुत लोकप्रिय होता जा रहा है कि कल हो न हो, जितना मजा आज ले सकते हो, ले डालो. दरअसल जबसे विज्ञान का उदय हुआ, तबसे इंसान की बुद्धि भ्रष्ट होनी शुरू हो गयी. इस दुनिया का नियम है कि कोई किसी भी क्षेत्र में लगातार मेहनत और तपस्या करेगा तो वो अवश्य ही सफलता हासिल करेगा, यह क्षेत्र चाहे कोई भी हो. और तो और, यदि कोई अपराध के क्षेत्र में भी लगातार लगा ही रहेगा तो वह भी नाम कमा जायेगा. जब कुछ लोगों ने विज्ञान के क्षेत्र में मेहनत की तो उन्हें सफलता मिली और उन्होंने तरह-तरह के आविष्कार किये. किसी ने बिजली का आविष्कार किया तो किसी ने हवाई जहाज का. इसी कड़ी में कुछ लोगों ने चिकित्सा विज्ञान में मेहनत की और बीमारियों के इलाज खोजे. चूंकि इस संसार का नियम है कि कोई किसी भी क्षेत्र में मेहनत करेगा तो उसे उसका फल जरूर मिलेगा, अतः इस चिकित्सा विज्ञान के क्षेत्र में मेहनत करने वाले लोगों को भी सफलता मिली और उन्होंने तरह-तरह क़ी बीमारियों के इलाज खोजे. इससे संसार में एक गलत धारणा बन गयी कि इस दुनिया में जो कुछ भी है, वो विज्ञान ही है. अब इंसान सोचने लगा कि खूब ऐश कर लो और ये अच्छे कर्म, मेहनत, ईमानदारी वगैरह तो सब बेकार की बातें हैं. यदि कोई बीमारी लगेगी तो उसे दवाई से ठीक कर लो. लेकिन, काश यह सब इतना आसान होता.
दोस्तों, इंसान ने चिकित्सा विज्ञान में मेहनत की, इसलिए उसे उसकी मेहनत का फल मिला, लेकिन लोगों को बुरे कर्मों और कम मेहनत क़ी सजा भी तो देनी थी, इसलिए नई बीमारियाँ पैदा कर दी गयीं. इंसान बीमारियों के इलाज खोजता रहा और नई बीमारियाँ पैदा होती गयीं. इंसान आगे भी बीमारियों के इलाज खोजता रहेगा, लेकिन नई बीमारियाँ पैदा होती रहेंगी. आज की तारीख में सब कहेंगे कि चिकित्सा विज्ञान ने बहुत तरक्की कर ली, लेकिन क्या संसार से बीमारियाँ और दुःख ख़त्म हो गए? ये तो और बढ़ गए.
दोस्तों, विज्ञान के पास छोटी-मोटी बीमारियों को छोड़कर किसी भी बीमारी का कोई इलाज नहीं है. क्या एड्स का कोई इलाज है? डायबिटीज का कोई इलाज है? केवल राहत है. यदि दिल का दौरा पड़ गया तो आपकी जान बचा ली जाएगी, लेकिन आपको लगातार दवाई खाने और हर महीने डोक्टर से संपर्क करने की सजा मिल जाएगी. जान तो बच जाएगी, लेकिन राहत ही मिलेगी, इलाज नहीं हो पायेगा. और पता नहीं कितनी बीमारियाँ ऐसी हैं, जिनका विज्ञान के पास कोई इलाज नहीं है. गाँव में रहने वाले जो लोग कड़ी मेहनत करते हैं और ज्यादा बुरे काम नहीं करते, थोड़े में ही संतुष्ट रहते हैं, वे 90-90, 100-100 साल बिना किसी गंभीर बीमारी के जी जाते हैं और जो लोग मेहनत नहीं करते, बुरे कार्यों में लगे रहते हैं, ऐयाशी करते हैं, उनको युवावस्था से ही कभी कोई बीमारी घेर लेती है तो कभी कोई. दोस्तों, ये जिंदगी ऐश लेने के लिए नहीं है, बल्कि कुछ अच्छा करके दिखाने के लिए है. यह किसी ने भी नहीं देखा है कि जिंदगी एक ही है. यदि कुछ अच्छा करोगे तो इस जिंदगी में भी मजा है और अगली में भी, लेकिन यदि मेहनत, अच्छे कर्म नहीं करोगे, कोई तपस्या नहीं करोगे तो इस जिंदगी में तो दुखी रहोगे ही, साथ ही यदि अगले जनम का भी विधान हुआ तो उसमें भी दुखी होवोगे. यदि कम मेहनत करने वालों, ऐयाशी करने वालों, बेईमानों, दुष्टों, पापियों को भी सुखी जीवन दे दिया गया तो फिर उन्हें क्या मिलेगा, जो यहाँ कुछ त्याग-तपस्या करेंगे. इसलिए कुछ अच्छा करने को अपने जीवन का लक्ष्य बनाओ. कोई भी बड़ी ख़ुशी आप तभी पचा पाओगे, यदि आपने उसके लिए मेहनत की होगी, यदि बिना मेहनत और तपस्या के कोई बड़ी ख़ुशी आपको मिलती है तो उसे स्वीकार मत करो, नहीं तो दुःख झेलने को तैयार रहो.

 

[vicky84]

यह जीवन ऐश लेने के लिए नहीं है​

Ya heading bhateri thi upender..

PS: इस दुनिया में यदि कोई बिना मेहनत और तपस्या के कोई बड़ी ख़ुशी हासिल करता है तो उसे उस ख़ुशी का सुख नहीं लेने दिया जाएगा. Mere ek baat samgh nahi aayi...jo bina mehnat ke khusi haasil karega..usse hum kaise rokenge khusi lene se.?

 

[virj]

Mere ek baat samgh nahi aayi...jo bina mehnat ke khusi haasil karega..usse hum kaise rokenge khusi lene se.?

आतिश, उनके सांकल बांद देंगे हर खूंटा रोप देंगे धरती में जोर का.

 

[vicky84]

आतिश, उनके सांकल बांद देंगे हर खूंटा रोप देंगे धरती में जोर का.

hahahaha...bera hai yo to munnai bhi..lekin Upender ka jawab to aan de bhai..

 

[sanjaymalik]

What upender is advocating or expressing may be right upto some extent in relation to some semi- educated folks who believe in saying of peoples all around them after departed form the village level to Metro culture.After living in Metro culture try to be wise enough and try to be modren, instead of going into the reality of facts.

But the persons who are well educated and have basic knowledge about the realities of world hardly have no impact such kind of thought.

 

[upendersingh]

Ya heading bhateri thi upender..

PS: इस दुनिया में यदि कोई बिना मेहनत और तपस्या के कोई बड़ी ख़ुशी हासिल करता है तो उसे उस ख़ुशी का सुख नहीं लेने दिया जाएगा. Mere ek baat samgh nahi aayi...jo bina mehnat ke khusi haasil karega..usse hum kaise rokenge khusi lene se.?

उसे हम नहीं रोकेंगे भाई आतिश, बल्कि इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली ताकत रोकेगी. हां, ये हो सकता है कि हमें जरिया बनाया जाए. इस संदर्भ में मुझे एक बहुत अच्छा उदाहरण याद आ रहा है. ये जो नीचे 2 तस्वीरें दी गई हैं, इन्हें देखो. पहली तस्वीर में मरियन जोंस अपने मेडल दिखा रही है और जो नीचे तस्वीर है, उसमें वो रो रही है. दरअसल उसने ये मेडल मेहनत, तपस्या और ईमानदारी के बल पर नहीं जीते थे, बल्कि प्रतिबंधित औषधियों का सेवन कर जीते थे. उसके बाद उसका यह राज किसी ने नहीं पकड़ा, लेकिन उसके साथ न जाने ऐसा क्या होना शुरू हुआ कि वो अपनी इस ख़ुशी का सुख नहीं ले सकी और उसे ये स्वीकार करना पड़ा कि वो इन मेडल को जीतने की हकदार नहीं थी. कुछ लोग अपने जमीर की आवाज नहीं सुनते और अपने साथ बन रहे हालात से सबक नहीं लेते तथा इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली ताकत से टक्कर लेते रहते हैं, लेकिन इस दुनिया में लाखों बीमारियां हैं और वे सब लगने के लिए हैं, बचेंगे केवल वे लोग जिनकी परफोर्मेंस बढ़िया होगी. पूरी तरह से बचने के लिए तो कुछ बहुत ही बढ़िया करके दिखाना होगा. ऐसे ही और भी बहुत से उदाहरण हमें मिल जाएंगे, बस थोड़ा गहरी नज़र से देखने की जरूरत है.

Marion Lois Jones (born October 12, 1975), also known as Marion Jones-Thompson, is a former world champion track and field athlete. She won five medals at the 2000 Summer Olympics in Sydney, Australia but has since agreed to forfeit all medals and prizes dating back to September 2000 after admitting that she took performance-enhancing drugs.

 

[vicky84]

Bhai Upender..ek aadha to fussega..nahi phusyaa to majak nahi ho jaga...lekin tu nyu nahi dekhta ke India mai kitne politician hain..saaree aam pakad liye rishwat lete..kimme nahi ho liya unka..yo Congress party jaab tai desh ajad hoya hai khaan laag ri hai desh nai...inkai kuch na hoya..nirree bureaucrat hain...sara sarkari khajan luttan lag re hain bina mehnat karree..unkai kimme nahi hoya..corporate sector aale khaan laag re..unka kimme nahi hoya..

 

[upendersingh]

सबके साथ सही फैसला हो रहा है. जिस किसी के बारे में भी ऐसा लगे कि ये खूब बुरा कर रहा है, इसके बावजूद खूब खुश है तो या तो उसके साथ रहो कुछ दिन, तब पता चलेगा, नहीं तो फिर इस दुनिया के सिस्टम पर छोड़ दो. किस इंसान के साथ क्या हो रहा है, ये दूसरे कैसे जान सकते हैं. इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली ताकत का इंसाफ करने का अपना तरीका है. जरूरी तो नहीं कि कोई बुरा ही बुरा करता हो, उसने कितना क्या अच्छा किया है, कितना क्या बुरा किया है, ये जानने का काम हम इंसानों में से कोई कर ही नहीं सकता. बाकी ये जरूर है कि सबको अपनी जिंदगी अपनी मर्जी से अपनी शर्तों पर जीने का हक़ है. उसका रास्ता, उसके सिद्धांत कितने ठीक थे, ये उसका अंजाम बताएगा. जो मैं कहता हूं, वे मेरे अपने निजी विचार हैं. हो सकता है मैं गलत होवूं और दूसरे लोग ठीक. यहां केवल विचार बांटे जा रहे हैं.

 

[vicky84]

इस दुनिया को चलाने वाली ताकत का इंसाफ करने का अपना तरीका है. जरूरी तो नहीं कि कोई बुरा ही बुरा करता हो, उसने कितना क्या अच्छा किया है, कितना क्या बुरा किया है, ये जानने का काम हम इंसानों में से कोई कर ही नहीं सकता.

To koon karega pherr janan ka kaam...duniya chalan aala Amrika hai...sabnai luttan lag re we...kimme koni hota..Pehlya British nai lutt liye..aaj mauj maare hain we..ibb nyu na keh diye ke..we dukhi hain..falana hai dhakda hai ..