"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

[kulwantmalik]

Although there is no draft is pending before in indian parliament but if after a long united struggle govt. Decided to amend hma 1955 then special marriage act should also amend because it is also provide a way of same gotra marriage.
For this social issue a mass awarence is necessary and struggle with unity and beware form politics on this issue.
Hamari akta zindabad

 

[ranbirnain]

I think the people who support marriage in same gotra will get benefit of:

1. No need to find good Dulha for their sister/daughter bcz A number of Jije / Jamai they will get nearby there home, easily.

2.No need to marry thier sister/ daughter as early as possible because she is getting whatever she want before marriage (Live in relationship Act. allow them to fulfill their sexual needs).

ab na pucheo mere te same gotra me sadi k fayede ,nahi to ek jija aur ......chora Jat ka!!!

 

[akshaymalik84]

I think the people who support marriage in same gotra will get benefit of:

1. No need to find good Dulha for their sister/daughter bcz A number of Jije / Jamai they will get nearby there home, easily.

2.No need to marry thier sister/ daughter as early as possible because she is getting whatever she want before marriage (Live in relationship Act. allow them to fulfill their sexual needs).

ab na pucheo mere te same gotra me sadi k fayede ,nahi to ek jija aur ......chora Jat ka!!!

Valid Points Nain sahab.

 

[satyendra15]

Dear Ravi,

I am not saying that inidviduals should not value tradition or follow community rules. But if someone is going against the society norms and without harming others (in fact in most of the intra gotra marriages happened with family's consent) then few bunch of people either the distant relatives, villagers , Khaps have no right to kill or harrass them. And if knowing all these someone is going against then it means how much he or she is devoted & in love. Another thing ,we cant control these feeling through forceful means , love has no gravity. We need to be little tolerant as a society and accept the changes. Its really shameful that we are continuing with child marriage, dowry and other evils without any question but questioning, punishing, even killing young couples who hasn't harmed any one else. These actions infact bring bad name to the community. I have myself seen one Child marriage in a Rajasthan's village where everyone including village teacher, colonel, politician etc have attended the wedding function, when I tried to oppose and talked to the parents I was given false assurance that they will not bring the girl to their house until she turns 18 years ( they said , gauna will be done later), next year when I visited them I found that poor girl pregnant (she was only 15 years old ), her studies were discontinued, she was burdened with all the household activities at such a small age. We don't raise voice against such issues and that has been followed in our community since ages .Will you support that in the name of value and tradition?Infact, if I go by your argument then what Taliban is doing in the name of history, religion or what Hitler has done in the name of race purification is also correct.
I apologise if I have been rude or have extreme views, but somewhere I think we need to rise above and need to think as a human being as an Indian first rather than just as a "JAT".

In between I haven't received your mail yet.

Regards,
Satyendra S. Choudhary

 

[saluram]

stop karo bahas ko

ek hi gotra main shaadi ka sochna ek jat ke liye cow ka katla karne ke barabar hain

 

[virj]

Actually can this poll be deleted and replaced with the original poll : "Should Govt Amend the HMA to ban same-gotra marriage?"

The disussion was more intended toward HMA amendment

 

[satyendra15]

You are just confusing too many different issues and also coming up with wrong conclusions. Illogical opposition is not good just like illogical support is not good. Why is an honour killing more brutal than any other murder? I don't think the victims are kidnapped, tortured with third degree and then killed (Maoists do that and this regularly misses media reporting). In fact, how's it different from any other murder, as far as non-justifiability is concerned? What has education got to do with it anyways? I don't remember being taught in school about honour killings. Can't educated people indulge in crimes or murders? What's your proposal for working against this evil?

Let's not blindly propogate media's logic which thrives on sensationalism.

I might seem confused to you but isnt it better to support the good cause even thou it seems illogical rather than supporting wrong cause like killing. And my other point is whats the use of education if one can't respect human life. We as a community need to work towards removing these evils rather then shielding the killers

 

[virj]

Bhai isme support support kuch nahi hota. I know everyone will say we shouldnt kill anyone blah blah blah. Par jiski chori baj gi ho uste bhujo. Hum is bare me kuch nahi bol sakte kaunki hum vo pain nahi feel kar sakte.

Hum bade bade word use kar sakte he humanity har ye sab. par us aadmi ki bhi socho jiska samaj me sir utha ke chalna muskil ho je he auladon ki aisi kartooton ke karan.

Rahi bat isko control karne ki vo Police ka kaam h.

Aur bhai Sateyendra u said : (in fact in most of the intra gotra marriages happened with family's consent): This is wrong even in manoj and babli's case Manoj's mother was totally against it but she said (on TV) she wanted them to never return in the village. No parents support such things but yes a child loss is also a big lose. These things are done due to immature mind ruined more by lust or infatuation. They cant think beyond, after effect of these things on parents and society. Hence once banned by law people probably wont take such step because they(same gotra marriage) wont get protection.

Can you provide examples in the support of what u said otherwise i would say ur statement is just another bavli bat.

 

[fateh]

Dear Ravi,

I am not saying that inidviduals should not value tradition or follow community rules. But if someone is going against the society norms and without harming others (in fact in most of the intra gotra marriages happened with family's consent) then few bunch of people either the distant relatives, villagers , Khaps have no right to kill or harrass them. And if knowing all these someone is going against then it means how much he or she is devoted & in love. Another thing ,we cant control these feeling through forceful means , love has no gravity. We need to be little tolerant as a society and accept the changes. Its really shameful that we are continuing with child marriage, dowry and other evils without any question but questioning, punishing, even killing young couples who hasn't harmed any one else. These actions infact bring bad name to the community. I have myself seen one Child marriage in a Rajasthan's village where everyone including village teacher, colonel, politician etc have attended the wedding function, when I tried to oppose and talked to the parents I was given false assurance that they will not bring the girl to their house until she turns 18 years ( they said , gauna will be done later), next year when I visited them I found that poor girl pregnant (she was only 15 years old ), her studies were discontinued, she was burdened with all the household activities at such a small age. We don't raise voice against such issues and that has been followed in our community since ages .Will you support that in the name of value and tradition?Infact, if I go by your argument then what Taliban is doing in the name of history, religion or what Hitler has done in the name of race purification is also correct.
I apologise if I have been rude or have extreme views, but somewhere I think we need to rise above and need to think as a human being as an Indian first rather than just as a "JAT".

In between I haven't received your mail yet.

Regards,
Satyendra S. Choudhary

My dear Satyendra,

All social evils must be objected to & stopped. Nobody, supports child marriages, dowry etc &, dear, today very rarely one hears about child marriage.

This is the result of good efforts of people of the Jat samaj.

Also nobody supports killing, but definitely, a person who does not follow rules/traditions of a particular society/samaj/organisation/family,( he or she) has no right to stay in that society/samaj/organisation/family.

Without rules/traditions, no nation/society/organization/family can run peacefully. Why does the British parliament follow so many traditions even today?

Friend, such killings are done by the family/s only, may be with some support from other people some times.

In short I feel people must transfer good sanskars to their children, improve bringing up of children, give proper knowledge of samaj & its rules/tradition.

If some child is trying to go against social norms convince him/her not to do &, if such an incident takes place, throw children out of house, samaj/cast.

But dear, same gotra marriages must not be allowed/permitted at any cost.

Regards.


Brother Dev, yes you are human but a human being is expected to behave like a human being & not like animal.

 

[kapdal]

I might seem confused to you but isnt it better to support the good cause even thou it seems illogical rather than supporting wrong cause like killing. And my other point is whats the use of education if one can't respect human life. We as a community need to work towards removing these evils rather then shielding the killers

No, it is not better to support a good cause with flawed logic as it only hurts the cause. And these are not binary choices. If I oppose your logic, doesn't mean I support killing (you can check my opposition of that on this thread and elsewhere). Similarly, following customs doesn't mean you support killing. Or that only by not following customs, you can oppose killing. Or that only by killing can you follow the customs (which is the other extremist side).

Education and respect for human life (or any other moral principle) have no correlation to each other. Why can't the uneducated have respect for life?

I guess all this is falling right into media propogated nonsense (won't call it a trap as it seems they are too idiotic to plan this deliberately); where killings are due to "barbaric" customs. Idiots kill even in road rage, does that mean driving is to blame?

 

[kapdal]

Hence once banned by law people probably wont take such step because they wont get protection.

Banning by law (assuming it can be done effectively. I think there is a better chance of me speaking fluent Chinese by tomorrow) doesn't mean they become fair game for killing. Law has to protect even the criminals from the vigilantes and punish them only for the crime committed as per the law.

 

[virj]

Banning by law (assuming it can be done effectively. I think there is a better chance of me speaking fluent Chinese by tomorrow) doesn't mean they become fair game for killing. Law has to protect even the criminals from the vigilantes and punish them only for the crime committed as per the law.

Okay okay, dhanyvad

 

[piush_tomar]

एक ये जो जगमती सांगवान है यह खुलेआम मीडिया में खाप के विरोध में और स्गोत्रिये विवाह के पक्ष में बोल रही है| इसका के इलाज है? या अंग्रेजी भी हरयाणवी में बोलले

 

[satyendra15]

My dear Satyendra, all social evils must be objected & stopped. nobody, supports child marriages, dowry etc & dear today very raerly one hear about child marriage it is result of good efforts of people of the jat samaj. Also dear nobody supports killing but definitely a person who doesnot follw rules/traditions of a perticular society/samaj/organisation/family, he or she has no right to stay in that society/samaj/organisation/family. without rules/traditions, no nation/socity/organisation/family can run peacefully, why british parliament follows so many traditions even today. Friend, such killings are done by the family/s only, may be some support from other people some time. In short I feel people must transfer good sanskars to their children, improve bringingup of children, give proper knowledge of samaj & its rules/traditions, if some child is trying to go against social norms convince him/her not to do & if such incident takes place, through children out of house, samaj/cast. But dear same gotra marriages must not be allowed/permitted at any cost. regards.


Brother Dev, yes you are human but a human being is expected to behave like a human being & not like animals.

Dear Fateh,

I dont think our community leaders or Khaps are doing anything to eradicate these social evils instead honour killings are on the rise.I agree as a community we have certain values and you might not agree with intra-gotra marraiage but if someone is doing that , how does it affect us ?? and so much so that we not only torture their family but kill the couple. How many times people are outcasted/ punished by the community leaders for dowry or child marriage or girl infanticide..In fact in Rajasthan still child marriage is very prominent within our community and in Haryana girl infanticide. In Haryana people are buying girls from Jharkhand , Chattisgarh because they don't find suitable match in our caste/community. Inter caste marriage, girl buying -was it the part of our traditions??So for ones comfort we can bend the rule why not for others?? And I am just asking for us to be more tolerant . Coming to family honour, izzat etc ..if we as a community become more supportive/consultative rather than abusing and harassing the individuals/family who does intra gotra marriage then I am sure people will not take extreme steps as their so called "honour" will be maintained.
We really need to relook our traditions if it allows us to forgive the killers (in fact we glorify them) but punish/harrass to the extreme the lovers & their families

 

[cooljat]

.

Right Said Bhai, reminds me of a dialogue, - " तुम्हारा प्यार .. प्यार नहीं, जवानी का बुखार है !! "

Bhai isme support support kuch nahi hota. I know everyone will say we shouldnt kill anyone blah blah blah. Par jiski chori baj gi ho uste bhujo. Hum is bare me kuch nahi bol sakte kaunki hum vo pain nahi feel kar sakte.

Hum bade bade word use kar sakte he humanity har ye sab. par us aadmi ki bhi socho jiska samaj me sir utha ke chalna muskil ho je he auladon ki aisi kartooton ke karan.

Rahi bat isko control karne ki vo Police ka kaam h.

Aur bhai Sateyendra u said : (in fact in most of the intra gotra marriages happened with family's consent): This is wrong even in manoj and babli's case Manoj's mother was totally against it but she said (on TV) she wanted them to never return in the village. No parents support such things but yes a child loss is also a big lose. These things are done due to immature mind ruined more by lust or infatuation. They cant think beyond, after effect of these things on parents and society. Hence once banned by law people probably wont take such step because they wont get protection.

Can you provide examples in the support of what u said otherwise i would say ur statement is just another bavli bat.

 

[satyendra15]

Dear Vipin ,

In Manoj Babli case - the mother and sister of Manoj were harassed and they have approved the marraige ,ther other cases also like : "Khedi Meham case -Dec'09", anyways pl refer to the article "Khap Panchayat Signs of desperation" published in Hindu-in May-7 2010 or
the article in outlook:
society: khap panchayats:Hardcore Courts:It’s selective barbarity. The rich are spared; local politics, land influence most cases.

I am sure, a newspaper like Hindu and a magazine like outlook will not publish article like this without proper research

P.S: Couldn't paste the link : not allowed
Regards,
Satyendra

 

[fateh]

Dear Fateh,

I dont think our community leaders or Khaps are doing anything to eradicate these social evils instead honour killings are on the rise.I agree as a community we have certain values and you might not agree with intra-gotra marraiage but if someone is doing that , how does it affect us ?? and so much so that we not only torture their family but kill the couple. How many times people are outcasted/ punished by the community leaders for dowry or child marriage or girl infanticide..In fact in Rajasthan still child marriage is very prominent within our community and in Haryana girl infanticide. In Haryana people are buying girls from Jharkhand , Chattisgarh because they don't find suitable match in our caste/community. Inter caste marriage, girl buying -was it the part of our traditions??So for ones comfort we can bend the rule why not for others?? And I am just asking for us to be more tolerant . Coming to family honour, izzat etc ..if we as a community become more supportive/consultative rather than abusing and harassing the individuals/family who does intra gotra marriage then I am sure people will not take extreme steps as their so called "honour" will be maintained.
We really need to relook our traditions if it allows us to forgive the killers (in fact we glorify them) but punish/harrass to the extreme the lovers & their families

Bhai, you are requested to read my all post on the topic, you will get answers to all your points.

 

[nitindev]

Whom are you quoting here, "Criminals"???

Dharmaveer Nagar, 45, paternal uncle of Shubha"Apne aap me yeh khoon galat ho sakta hai, par samaj ke liye yeh hatya zaroori thi...is kaam se in larkon ne sahi me ek achcha udaharan pesh kiya hain

The women in our village are treated as sisters. How can there ever be a marriage between a man and his sister! If my daughter follows in Monica's footsteps tomorrow, I will kill her. I will not let her defy tradition," said Sanjay Singh Khari, another uncle of the deceased.

The community youths do not differ with their elders. Nitin, a cousin of Mandeep, said he would prefer to have the British back. "The foreigners never tried to play with our traditions. This government has scant regard for our indigenous culture," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-tha-says-girls-uncle/articleshow/6084080.cms

 

[virj]

Whom are you quoting here, "Criminals"???

Didnt u say earlier u wont/cant argue with me?

Isnt it clear to ur eyes whom i quoted?

BTW i said Gujjar's views and pasted a news

 

[hemanthooda]

Honour killing: 3 held from Ghaziabad, confess to killing couple, say cops

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...lling-couple-say-cops/articleshow/6086966.cms

GHAZIABAD: Three youths who allegedly carried out the sensational honour killing of three of their relatives in Delhi on Sunday were today arrested in Garhmukteshwar area here.

Mandeep Nagar (23), Ankit Chaudhury (22) and Nakul Khari (21) were arrested from Garhmukteshwar, about 90 kms from Delhi, and a country made pistol was recovered from them, Senior Superintendent of Police Raghubir Lal said, adding they have also seized a car.

The three were on the run after allegedly killing Ankit's sister Monica, 24, along with her husband Kuldeep, 26, for marrying in a different caste, and Mandeep's 22-year-old sister Shobha, who too had eloped with a man belonging to a different case.

The accused carried out the three murders on the same day-- June 20, Additional Director General of Police (Law and Order) Brij Lal said in Lucknow.

First they killed Shobha after asking her to meet them. They shot her in her car. Then they called Kuldeep to meet them and killed him. Later his wife Monica was murdered at her home, he said.

The youths said that the villagers would insult them by pointing out that their sisters had married outside the caste and they could not take the humiliation, Lal said.

After the murders, the three escaped to Uttarakhand and there were reports that they were moving around in Dehradun, Rishikesh and Musoorie but there was tip off today that they were located in Garhmukteshwar, where police arrested them.

Lal said they were being taken to Ghaziabad and Delhi Police has been informed.

Police had yesterday announced a cash reward of Rs 50,000 each for anyone providing information on them.

The three were presented before the media here by the police.

Earlier, Delhi Police took Mandeep's uncle Dharmaveer Nagar and friend Nitin, who allegedly gave provocative statements justifying the murders, into preventive custody.

"We have taken them into preventive custody under Sections 107 (Security for keeping peace in the other cases) and 151 (arrest to prevent the commission of cognizable offence) of the Cr PC," DCP (north-west) N S Bundela said in Delhi.

This has been done to maintain peace as there were apprehensions that their statements might instigate others, another police official said.

"This (killing) is not at all wrong. What is wrong in it? Murder is wrong but this (killing) is socially the best thing that has been done. This cannot be termed as wrong," Nagar had said.