"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

Do you support same Gotra marriage?


  • Total voters
    166
If you do not wish to get the evidence, then you do not have a right to criticize.

It does not do, to simply ask members here to display tolerance, or to accuse them of hypocricy.

I am going to suggest you take a break from posting , and read up on the material , especially the books that have been put online , with so much selfless effort by Luxman Burdakji and others.


We are, here, past the point of 'cut and paste posts' or 'reactive posts'.

We need, to discuss where we go from here, and at the same time to discuss how to handle, and then handle, those who do not wish the community well.


Best regards

Ravi Chaudhary

Raviji,

I appreciate the sentiment. But I'd be turning a blind eye if I don't ask you whether these parameters come into picture only when a certain kind of view is raised- basically opposition to Khaps, customs, etc. This has nothing to do with the view point itself, as you can very well see from my own opposition to it. The problem is that such sentiments are never raised when much much worse venom is spewed by self-professed real and blue-blooded Jats. Anyone taking a view contrary to them is bull-dozed (note, it is not criticism) with rhetoric. Asking them to provide evidence is blasphemous.

Probably it is too difficult to take on those who have unilaterally usurped the right to carry the Jat flag. But I dare say that Satyendra's criticism is a minor amusement compared to the "real stuff". If we can tolerate that, we should be able to tolerate anything.
 
Raviji,

I appreciate the sentiment. But I'd be turning a blind eye if I don't ask you whether these parameters come into picture only when a certain kind of view is raised- basically opposition to Khaps, customs, etc. This has nothing to do with the view point itself, as you can very well see from my own opposition to it. The problem is that such sentiments are never raised when much much worse venom is spewed by self-professed real and blue-blooded Jats. Anyone taking a view contrary to them is bull-dozed (note, it is not criticism) with rhetoric. Asking them to provide evidence is blasphemous.

Probably it is too difficult to take on those who have unilaterally usurped the right to carry the Jat flag. But I dare say that Satyendra's criticism is a minor amusement compared to the "real stuff". If we can tolerate that, we should be able to tolerate anything.

Very well written. I second your thoughts. Hope moderators will take note of it.
 
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Khaps want girls' marriageable age lowered to 15

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ble-age-lowered-to-15/articleshow/6122019.cms

BHIWANI: Jat Mahasabha wants marriageable age of girls and boys to be lowered to 15 and 17 respectively so that couples don't elope and marry against the wishes of their families.

According to Om Prakash Mann, Haryana president of All India Jat Mahasabha, the demand will be discussed at a sarv khap panchayat on July 17 at Meham Chaubisi Chabutara in Rohtak. The demand was raised at a meeting of khap representatives at Dhanana village.

Read the full article by following the link above...
 
... paedophiles ....
Quite right....and by the time the girl is out of her teens she will be a mother of half a dozen kids. This statement makes absolutely no sense at all. Why would the government amend a law for just 0.1% of population??? This is as stupid as it can get. Lets see who supports it ....
 
Compulsory and legalized female foeticide is another remedy to stop eloping. ( Na 9 man tel hoga na Radha Nachegi. Tanta hi khatam). Eventually, Jat boys can marry outside the caste as no honour is involved in male-folks of our community marrying a girl from other community.
 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ble-age-lowered-to-15/articleshow/6122019.cms

BHIWANI: Jat Mahasabha wants marriageable age of girls and boys to be lowered to 15 and 17 respectively so that couples don't elope and marry against the wishes of their families.

According to Om Prakash Mann, Haryana president of All India Jat Mahasabha, the demand will be discussed at a sarv khap panchayat on July 17 at Meham Chaubisi Chabutara in Rohtak. The demand was raised at a meeting of khap representatives at Dhanana village.

Most Stupid Suggestion even a fool could make.

When people and media criticize this stupidity, Khap supporters calls it KHAP BASHING.
 
Manne na bera tha yu Om Prakah Mann od badda admi hai. Bhiwani mein rehne wale Mann sahab ne kayee baar election mein koshish ki par afsos haar mili . Ticket ke chakkar mein inhone itnee Parties badli hain shayad inko bhi yaad nahi hoga. Bhiwani sehar mein inki kothi Agarsen chowk ke pass hai. Bhiwani mein ye kehne wale bahut milenge ki mere paise maan ne mar liye shayad ek do is site par bhi mil jaye.
Aur most stupid suggestion kehne wale bhai sahab ye dekhiye minority ages in different contries baaki ye kis khap ko represent kar raha hai ye bhi bata doonga. I feel that this age should be increased to 21 for both male and female in case of Court marriage.As in most of cases girl just turned 18.Three more years will add benifit to think and understand things in a better way.
Age 14
Albania
American Samoa, United States
Isle of Man (for males)
Age 15
Iran
Age 16
Cuba
Kyrgyzstan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Scotland
Age 17
El Salvador (for females)
Korea, North
Tajikistan
Age 18
All countries of the European Union (with exceptions as listed)
Afghanistan
Andorra [9]
Argentina [10]
Armenia[11]
Angola
Australia[12]
Azerbaijan [13]
Bahamas[14]
Barbados[15]
Belarus[16]
Bhutan
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina[17]
Brazil (though one may vote at the age of 16)
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burundi
Cambodia
Canada (provinces of Alberta, Manitoba, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, Quebec and Saskatchewan)[18]
Chile
China
Colombia
Costa Rica
Cote d'Ivoire
Croatia (16 if minor becomes a parent or marries - a judicial act is passed with prior hearing of minors parents and getting an opinion of the Social Care centre)
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Denmark (incl. Faroe Islands and Greenland)[19]
Djibouti [20]
Dominican Republic
Dominica
Ecuador
El Salvador[21]
Estonia
Fiji
Finland
France
Gabon
Germany
Greece
Ghana
Gibraltar
Guatemala
Guernsey
Guinea (minors are emancipated upon marriage)
Guyana
Haiti
Hong Kong
Hungary
Iceland
India [22]
Indonesia (minors are emancipated upon marriage)
Ireland
Italy
Israel
Isle of Man (for females)
Jamaica
Jersey
Kenya
Laos
Latvia
Lebanon
Liechtenstein
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macau
Macedonia
Malaysia
Malta
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico
Moldova
Monaco
Montenegro
Nepal
Netherlands
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Panama
Paraguay (minors are emancipated upon marriage)
Peru
Philippines
Poland (minors are emancipated upon marriage)
Portugal
Qatar
Romania
Russia
Rwanda
Saint Kitts and Nevis
Saudi Arabia
Senegal
Serbia
Seychelles
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Africa
Spain
Sudan
Sweden,
Switzerland (16 with parental consent)
Syria
Tanzania
Trinidad and Tobago
Tunisia
Turkey
United Kingdom, (with the exception of Scotland)
United States, (with these exceptions: Alabama and Nebraska, 19; Mississippi and Puerto Rico, 21)[23]
Ukraine
Uruguay
Venezuela
Vietnam
Yemen
Zimbabwe
Age 19
Alabama, United States
Canada (provinces of British Columbia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Northwest Territories, Nova Scotia, Nunavut and Yukon)[18]
Nebraska, United States
Age 20
Japan (debate started to lower it to 18)
Korea, South
New Zealand[24]
Taiwan
Thailand (minors are emancipated upon marriage)
Age 21
Bahrain [25]
Cameroon
Chad
Egypt
Honduras
Lesotho
Madagascar [26] (minors are emancipated upon marriage)
Mississippi, United States[27]
Namibia
Puerto Rico, United States
Singapore
Swaziland
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ble-age-lowered-to-15/articleshow/6122019.cms

Jat Mahasabha wants marriageable age of girls and boys to be lowered to 15 and 17 respectively so that couples don't elope and marry against the wishes of their families.

According to Om Prakash Mann, Haryana president of All India Jat Mahasabha, the demand will be discussed at a sarv khap panchayat on July 17 at Meham Chaubisi Chabutara in Rohtak.

As stupid as it can get!! Such morons are responsible half the time for projecting the whole community in bad light.

Good thing mr. Mann said is that we (apparently khaps) want to stop honor killings but at the same time gave another baton to media to beat khaps!!
Let's see what sarv khap panchayat discuss about it. Hope sanity prevails!!
 
Most Stupid Suggestion even a fool could make.

When people and media criticize this stupidity, Khap supporters calls it KHAP BASHING.

Yes Vijay you are correct this is the most regressive demand made by a Individual....Which Khap does he represent???

I fully endorse Rakesh view that girl's minimum age for marriage should be increased to 21....

There is no hesitation in calling spade a spade....JL is full of rational people.....When have people criticized media on such type of stories calling it khap bashing???Media is criticized where they dont represent the truth & paint the community in black....
 
Pl have a look at this story n tell what khap has to do with it?

Khap order sends families to cops

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ends-families-to-cops/articleshow/6122016.cms


GHAZIABAD: In yet another case of Khap panchayat threatening innocent villagers over same gotra marriage, four families in Babugarh area here have sought police protection after the local panchayat asked them to get ready to face the consequences if they did not leave their Kakrouli village within four days. The couple that had got married in 2009 has already fled the village fearing punishment by the panchayat.

According to SSP (Ghaziabad) Raghuvir Lal, the couple Sudhir Singh and Sheetal eloped and got married on February 4, 2009. Immediately after the couple had eloped, both the families approached the Babugarh police station. The girl's family lodged a kidnapping case against Sudhir. The couple then approached the Allahabad high court and got a stay order on any police action against them.

About a week ago, the couple tried to enter their village yet again. "When the couple reached the village, the other villagers objected to their marriage and asked the couple to live as brother and sister. Sensing danger, the couple fled the village but not before the ire of the villagers fell on the families of the boy's father and his three uncles.

"Fearing an attack on them, the girl's family had already left the village. But the boy's family members have declared that they have no intention of leaving their ancestral properties behind,'' said a senior officer of Babugarh police station.

The police said that the local panchayat called a meeting on Wednesday and asked the boy's father, Kajendra Singh, to be present. "The Panchayat asked Kajendra and his three brothers to leave the village within four days or else face the consequences," said the police officer.

The four shocked families then sought the help of the local police. Police have filed a complaint against 20 villagers, including the panchayat members.

"We were told to leave the village. They ordered that we be declared outcastes and that our water supply be stopped. We were left with no other option but to approach the police,'' said Kajendra.

SSP Lal said that prima facie the complaint against the panchayat seemed to be true. "We have posted police personnel near the residences of the complainants. We have called the panchayat members to withdraw their mediaeval diktat. Action will taken if they disturb the peace in the area,'' said Lal.

Chatar Singh, one of the panchayat members who passed the diktat, however, appeared unperturbed. "This is a village affair. We do not want any outsider to dictate terms here. The girl's family has already left the village. The boy's family should also leave,'' Chatar told the Times City.
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ble-age-lowered-to-15/articleshow/6122019.cms

BHIWANI: Jat Mahasabha wants marriageable age of girls and boys to be lowered to 15 and 17 respectively so that couples don't elope and marry against the wishes of their families.

According to Om Prakash Mann, Haryana president of All India Jat Mahasabha, the demand will be discussed at a sarv khap panchayat on July 17 at Meham Chaubisi Chabutara in Rohtak. The demand was raised at a meeting of khap representatives at Dhanana village.

Read the full article by following the link above...

My dear jatlanders, this is nothing but another try for self publicity, niether mr mann can do it nor the suggetion is sensible, useful & practical. In fact if the marriage age lowered as suggested, children will get opportunity to run away from their houses & get married at early age because they will be elegible to get married at early age. The age between 12 to 18 is more favourable for such affairs & adventures. However, this may be a suggetion from mr omperkash mann, it cannot be a serve khap decision, I donot think any khap will agree to this point & atlist kharb khap not only disagree but will object with full strength if called for meeting.Also there is difference between jat sabha & khap, this point may be from jat sabha but I really donot believe, even jat sabha can take such irrelevent decision. Brothers, same gotra marriage proble is faced by almost all the communities in north India, such inccidents are taking place in all communities, why we are so worried or we suold take all such communities along in our struggle. My personal openion is at present the community should lie low on this point, let some time pass, lateron take other effected communities along and project the case strongly, And at present jats must concentrate on reservation, donot divide your efforts, strength, resources etc
 
Pl have a look at this story n tell what khap has to do with it?

Khap order sends families to cops

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ends-families-to-cops/articleshow/6122016.cms


GHAZIABAD: In yet another case of Khap panchayat threatening innocent villagers over same gotra marriage, four families in Babugarh area here have sought police protection after the local panchayat asked them to get ready to face the consequences if they did not leave their Kakrouli village within four days. The couple that had got married in 2009 has already fled the village fearing punishment by the panchayat.

According to SSP (Ghaziabad) Raghuvir Lal, the couple Sudhir Singh and Sheetal eloped and got married on February 4, 2009. Immediately after the couple had eloped, both the families approached the Babugarh police station. The girl's family lodged a kidnapping case against Sudhir. The couple then approached the Allahabad high court and got a stay order on any police action against them.

About a week ago, the couple tried to enter their village yet again. "When the couple reached the village, the other villagers objected to their marriage and asked the couple to live as brother and sister. Sensing danger, the couple fled the village but not before the ire of the villagers fell on the families of the boy's father and his three uncles.

"Fearing an attack on them, the girl's family had already left the village. But the boy's family members have declared that they have no intention of leaving their ancestral properties behind,'' said a senior officer of Babugarh police station.

The police said that the local panchayat called a meeting on Wednesday and asked the boy's father, Kajendra Singh, to be present. "The Panchayat asked Kajendra and his three brothers to leave the village within four days or else face the consequences," said the police officer.

The four shocked families then sought the help of the local police. Police have filed a complaint against 20 villagers, including the panchayat members.

"We were told to leave the village. They ordered that we be declared outcastes and that our water supply be stopped. We were left with no other option but to approach the police,'' said Kajendra.

SSP Lal said that prima facie the complaint against the panchayat seemed to be true. "We have posted police personnel near the residences of the complainants. We have called the panchayat members to withdraw their mediaeval diktat. Action will taken if they disturb the peace in the area,'' said Lal.

Chatar Singh, one of the panchayat members who passed the diktat, however, appeared unperturbed. "This is a village affair. We do not want any outsider to dictate terms here. The girl's family has already left the village. The boy's family should also leave,'' Chatar told the Times City.


That is the problem Hemant, reporter has no idea about the difference between khap panchayat and panchayat (legal body). And why blame reporters, even members at this very site, comment that khap should be banned (?) citing articles having nothing to do with khaps. (to me this is an obvious indication that they don't have much idea about khaps. I am no expert on khap either but whatever elementary knowledge I have, I found it ridiculous to blame khaps for any thing that goes wrong anything in villages).

Ironically- if someone questions (with sincerity) such a member regarding his knowledge regarding the khaps, more often than not, answer is a meaningless myriad of words, an attempt to prove that his/her knowledge is an irrelevant factor!! yet, for some reasons, the rigidity against khaps remains intact!!
-----------------

Coming back to the topic: (and in connection with the issue of banning the 'bodies' which are against the spirit of our constitution and citizens' liberty- This article make a case of BANNING the Village panchayats!! :D :D

And well, this is not the first case, every now and then there are such news where influential people (which are also the Panchayat members and Sarpanch) oppress the weaker-sections (my favorite words).

Not just in Jatlands, situation throughout the India is more or less same. In Central India (MP, CG, Bihar, JharKa, Urri), there have been many cases of Women being stripped naked and paraded in village for some minor offences by PANCHYATS .
Instances of Dalit women tied down to a tree and burnt alive were also reported. These women were suspected of practicing WITCHCRAFT (take that)!!
I am not making-up these cases, cynics are welcome to googling.


Furthermore, Panchayat Sarpanchi has become a tool of making money; Only Influential ppl are selected as members and sarpanch. Panchayat elections are also responsible not just for the GUTBANDI in villages but also for many bloody murdering !! Cases of corruption against Sarpanchs are aplenty. :-|

Reservation for women in panchayats election has also been largely ineffective (nothing more than dummies for their husbands or sons). Thus, not much of women- empowerment either!! :-(

Also, note that we do have police and courts for settling issues and Administrative officers, BDOs (corrupt or not) for allocating funds for village- development, etc.
Why add one more echelon (i.e, village panchayats) in corruption-hierarchy just in the name of grass-root democracy?

Why not completely demolish panchayat-system and save some election money?
If needed, hire some more BDOs and thats it. At least 'these' BDOs won't burn women alive!! :D


Any thoughts? :D

Regards,
 
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Let us avoid counseling each other on Khaps, Panchayats and traditions by writing superfluous articles. On the advice of some Professors and Doctors of the Deptt of Social Sciences, Traditions & Culture, I have resolved not to do so. We should learn to respect each other and avoid use of offensive language. If by mistake, some kam padha likha vyakti like me has ever used some difficult English word, sorry for that. But nothing to worry, google is there to help us out in such emergencies. What is the problem. Pyare dosto, Ao ham sab milkar tay karen ki "jalkhori baton" se apni sehat kharab nahin karenge. Kal ki baten chchodo kal ki baat purani.
 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...ble-age-lowered-to-15/articleshow/6122019.cms

BHIWANI: Jat Mahasabha wants marriageable age of girls and boys to be lowered to 15 and 17 respectively so that couples don't elope and marry against the wishes of their families.

According to Om Prakash Mann, Haryana president of All India Jat Mahasabha, the demand will be discussed at a sarv khap panchayat on July 17 at Meham Chaubisi Chabutara in Rohtak. The demand was raised at a meeting of khap representatives at Dhanana village.

Read the full article by following the link above...
I wrote a comment on this article and TOI has carried only one para of it as it was a bit lengthy (as usual of me). My comment has been carried by the name VPS Bhiwani. In the last para, I had tried to clarify that the people proposing such moves do not represent the entire Jat community and the majority of Jats are against such retrogate steps. I had further tried to bring to the notice of TOI the negative reporting about the Jat community on such issues in the past. For obvious reasons they have edited the comment considerably. Here is the portion published by TOI:


H VPS Bhiwani 03 Jul, 2010 01:54 PM
It seems human civilization has reached its zenith and now it is time for a slide down. In that process some people have, perhaps, decided to revive all the old traditions including the child marriage. Gosh! This is the height of absurdity and stupidity. I don't know what is preventing the political parties to stop these enemies of civility from issuing such dictates in the name of protecting customs, and honour. It is not known who mandates them to take the law in their hands as majority of Jats are against such retrograde steps.
5722473.cms




 
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Compulsory and legalized female foeticide is another remedy to stop eloping. ( Na 9 man tel hoga na Radha Nachegi. Tanta hi khatam). Eventually, Jat boys can marry outside the caste as no honour is involved in male-folks of our community marrying a girl from other community.

damn good sir. i m sure khaps will give u award for this great idea. in addition, they can also think of baby marriagies. commit ones daughter to some friend's baby son as soon as she is born
 
damn good sir. i m sure khaps will give u award for this great idea. in addition, they can also think of baby marriagies. commit ones daughter to some friend's baby son as soon as she is born

I am understanding your feeling & second your comments, but I think vp didnot spports the idea of child marriageor female foeticide, secondly dear sidhu please try to understand that it is not only khap which is responsible for all nonsense goingon, REGARDS
 
I wrote a comment on this article and TOI has carried only one para of it as it was a bit lengthy (as usual of me). My comment has been carried by the name VPS Bhiwani. In the last para, I had tried to clarify that the people proposing such moves do not represent the entire Jat community and the majority of Jats are against such retrogate steps. I had further tried to bring to the notice of TOI the negative reporting about the Jat community on such issues in the past. For obvious reasons they have edited the comment considerably. Here is the portion published by TOI:


H VPS Bhiwani 03 Jul, 2010 01:54 PM
It seems human civilization has reached its zenith and now it is time for a slide down. In that process some people have, perhaps, decided to revive all the old traditions including the child marriage. Gosh! This is the height of absurdity and stupidity. I don't know what is preventing the political parties to stop these enemies of civility from issuing such dictates in the name of protecting customs, and honour. It is not known who mandates them to take the law in their hands as majority of Jats are against such retrograde steps.
5722473.cms

<mr vp, please donot consider my few words as counseling, I think, bigest enemies of civility are politicians only & brother you are asking cat to protect the milk, is it possible?
 
I am understanding your feeling & second your comments, but I think vp didnot spports the idea of child marriageor female foeticide, secondly dear sidhu please try to understand that it is not only khap which is responsible for all nonsense goingon, REGARDS

Fateh Singh Sahab,

Your thinking is absolutely right. I am sure Seema ji has also well understood the spirit of my post.

Regards
 
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