ravichaudhary
New member
What is the difference beteen a " so called democratic elected government" and Mulsim rulers, when both exploit the people?
Ravi Chaudhary
Walking with Comrades
- Thread starter bls31
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What is the difference beteen a " so called democratic elected government" and Mulsim rulers, when both exploit the people?
Ravi Chaudhary
hemanthooda
New member
Right to change the govt by vote is the key difference.One can always protest against govt decisions!!!! I cannot imagine of any democratic govt who can afford to loose grip our its own territory by exploiting people.
I again reiterate this is not fight for tribal rights/development it is fight for power.
regards
Hemant Hooda
ravichaudhary
New member
I suggest you and others need to reeaxmine your premises.
There is such a thing called vote bank politics.
In these areas, " thakurpanti" rues.
The advasi, or the rural Bihari or rural orissaite has no vote( worth the paper it is written on) and cannot enforce his/her voting rights. The vote is grabbed by the Thakur or the local strongman.
One would have thought that , that would be common knowledge, and would not come as a surprise to you or any of the other readers on this forum.
Ravi Chaudhary
Hemant, I may add up another distinguishing feature of a democratic governance i.e. freedom of expression, in sharp contrast to the brutal Islamic rule as well as Mao Brand ‘proletarian dictatorship’ as envisioned by the Indian Maoists. While we can have the luxury of running a portal like Jatland or any other website for expressing ourselves freely, the same luxury is not offered by the monarchies and dictatorships. Somehow, if the comrades succeed in hoisting a red flag on the Red Fort, the Jantar Mantar might become another Tiananmen Square. Let us hope this doesn’t happen. In my opinion the Maoists are fighting only a losing battle. In spite of the fact that there is every reason for the tribals to show their resentment against the government’s faltered policies on development, mining or forestry, the modus operandi adopted by their so called leadership is doomed to fail miserably. The obtuse intransigence shown by the Maoists in accepting government’s peace offers and development package will only worsen the things.
Similar incidents of vote grabbing, booth capturing and forcible voting by the so called upper castes reportedly take place in Haryana, UP and some other parts of India. If this could be an alibi, Haryana, UP also would have been the hot-bed of Chhattisgarh like insurgency.
hemanthooda
New member
Ravi,
Very good point.
Yes i am aware of local strongman influence on public.These local strongman are basically landlords,rich ,influential people & poor public is dependent on them for their livelyhood in some way or other.
They are present throughout India, although i agree their hold is more on these poor areas.but their influence is reducing now a days.
From where maoist get there finances? they get their resourses from these local strongman only by extortion, hafta's etc by issuing death threats to family of these people.These landlord agree to them
for the sake of their safety. Where Landlords dont agree we have armed struggle between maoist & landlords like ranveer sena in Bihar.
Same landlords are used by Maoist to influence the elections by asking them to support a candidate suitable to them & these candidates/politicans oppose use of force against them in assembly/parliament in
turn/appropriate forum.So this is the complete cycle.
But to say that everyone in these rural areas have no voting right will not be fully correct.Yes, govt/political parties are also responsible for this.
Now why they are doing it?Basically they want to consolidate & hold on to the ares where they dominate, spread to new areas & when they will have majority of India under their control they will unleash the red terror.So this is their modus operandi.
Maoist are active in >35% districts of India (220 out of total 626) today.In 1990 only 15 districts were affected by Maoist violence.This shows that they are increasing exponentially, so does this suggest that we have more poverty in India as compared to 1990.Truth is Red Terror is biggest internal security threat.It is the bitter truth of this time.
Sadly , Force has to be meet with force.
regards
Hemant Hooda
hemanthooda
New member
VP sir agree with you 100% here.
ravichaudhary
New member
Mr. Singh
These insurgencies are in areas where fuedal rule existed- Bihar, Bengal, Orissa, Maharastra, Andhra.
In Punjab Haryana they were republic( Khaps).
In Rajastan etc land went back to the farmer, when Zamindari was removed.The exploitation was thus less.
In the other areas, Zamindari( in all but in name) and exploitation continued.
When people can make a living and raise their families, they are less prone to attack the government.
In the insurgency areas, the exploitation crossed all boundaries.
We are now seeing the result.
Please take some time to go through the archives in the history section, prior to making these generalized comments
Ravi Chaudhary
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ravichaudhary
New member
Hemant,
Ranveer Sena, is a Landlord upper caste creation to keep the peasants ( ryots) in Poverty.
You might not know this, but until 1950 or so, slavery was legal in Bihar and Bengal.
Children of slaves were chattel and were bought and sold.
So who was applying the force- the poor peasants or the landlords?
Now that peasants have risen up, you complain that they the should not use force ???.
But who forced them to use force. There is no moral high ground for complaint!
So why complain now ???
If zamindari was not abolished in UP, Rajastan, etc, you would seen the exploitation continue there.
Ravi Chaudhary
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Mr. Chaudhary,
Officially, in Bengal the land reforms were carried out efficiently by the left front government more than 20 years back practically abolishing the disguised zamidari system or feudalism so to speak. Similarly, in Maharashtra and Andhara Pradesh, there are no traces of feudalism strictly going by its definition. On the development front also Maharashtra is not lagging behind Haryana and UP. Therefore, feudalism and economic reasons should not have been the root cause of insurgency at least in Maharashtra, Bengal and Andhara. I can agree to some extend that the remnants of feudalism can be traced in Bihar and Orissa in spite of the official proclamations of the abolition of zamidari/feudalism. I have a little knowledge of Indian history and have found so many distortions in it. Different historians had their own versions of the sequence of historical events. There have been so many historians who wrote their epics just to please the Kings, Feudal Lords and the contemporary rulers or under coercion out of fear of sword/gun. A single history book/source cannot be taken as the final verse.
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@Vijay & Hemant
It's simple, had democracy through voting been successful the problem would not have aroused at all. You need to think why these people have adopted the Mao ideology and discarded the Indian democracy.
If someone thinks that these people can elect their representative through ballot boxes, then I will the person is dreaming. At ground, no ballot box reaches these forests.
It's simple, had democracy through voting been successful the problem would not have aroused at all. You need to think why these people have adopted the Mao ideology and discarded the Indian democracy.
If someone thinks that these people can elect their representative through ballot boxes, then I will the person is dreaming. At ground, no ballot box reaches these forests.
Yeah, fight for the power to keep exploiting people and continue the exploits for sex and money.
History has been proof, the greed ultimately gets defeated. Sometimes however it takes the lives of many innocent people.
The tribal’s will leave in peace one more. The greedy government will be uprooted.
For those saying that the maoists plan have failed..
Link:http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/PU...-finalise-package-14072010013004.shtml?Mode=1
SOME MEMBERS REFUSE TO ENDORSE DRAFT PLAN, DESCRIBE IT AS BUREAUCRATIC EXERCISE DISSOCIATED FROM THE PEOPLE
The Planning Commission on Tuesday failed to finalise the development package for Naxal-affected areas following opposition to a draft presented by the bureaucrats.
This came a day before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh discusses the issue with chief ministers of the seven affected states.
Plan panel deputy chairperson Montek Singh Ahluwalia, who said funds for the Naxal areas would not be a problem, briefed the Prime Minister on the issues raised by the members. “The plan will have lot to do with governance,“ Ahluwalia said after the meeting.
Three plan panel members -Abhijit Sen, Mihir Shah and Narendra Jhadav -presented their own papers on what the action plan should be. They described the Rs 13,300-draft plan as a “bureaucratic exercise“ which did not consider the views of the people living in such areas.
“There was no consensus on what message the action plan should deliver,“ said a member who participated in all the meetings. “We cannot put a stamp on an action plan based on failed project delivery systems. People are nowhere in the plan presented to us a week ago.“
All three sought amendments to Panchayat (Extension to Scheduled) Areas (PESA) Act and Forest Rights Act to make them effective.
“Even 14 years after notification of PESA, it has not been implemented in most states.
Law needs to change to make it effective,“ another member said.
The action plan will have separate components for roads, health, education and skill development sectors whereas some money could also be provided for capacity building of the gram sabhas and panchayati raj bodies for “participatory governance“, Shah said.
Ahluwalia said the final amount of the action plan had not been decided but did not rule out the first instalment coming in the supplementary demands of the budget. “We will submit a cabinet proposal soon,“ he said.
Link:http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/PU...-finalise-package-14072010013004.shtml?Mode=1
SOME MEMBERS REFUSE TO ENDORSE DRAFT PLAN, DESCRIBE IT AS BUREAUCRATIC EXERCISE DISSOCIATED FROM THE PEOPLE
The Planning Commission on Tuesday failed to finalise the development package for Naxal-affected areas following opposition to a draft presented by the bureaucrats.
This came a day before Prime Minister Manmohan Singh discusses the issue with chief ministers of the seven affected states.
Plan panel deputy chairperson Montek Singh Ahluwalia, who said funds for the Naxal areas would not be a problem, briefed the Prime Minister on the issues raised by the members. “The plan will have lot to do with governance,“ Ahluwalia said after the meeting.
Three plan panel members -Abhijit Sen, Mihir Shah and Narendra Jhadav -presented their own papers on what the action plan should be. They described the Rs 13,300-draft plan as a “bureaucratic exercise“ which did not consider the views of the people living in such areas.
“There was no consensus on what message the action plan should deliver,“ said a member who participated in all the meetings. “We cannot put a stamp on an action plan based on failed project delivery systems. People are nowhere in the plan presented to us a week ago.“
All three sought amendments to Panchayat (Extension to Scheduled) Areas (PESA) Act and Forest Rights Act to make them effective.
“Even 14 years after notification of PESA, it has not been implemented in most states.
Law needs to change to make it effective,“ another member said.
The action plan will have separate components for roads, health, education and skill development sectors whereas some money could also be provided for capacity building of the gram sabhas and panchayati raj bodies for “participatory governance“, Shah said.
Ahluwalia said the final amount of the action plan had not been decided but did not rule out the first instalment coming in the supplementary demands of the budget. “We will submit a cabinet proposal soon,“ he said.
Did any one said there is a scarcity of police force?
Yeah, for the common people who are getting murdered and raped daily. But not for the democratic India's political leaders.
Link: http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/PU...sts-under-scanner-14072010013005.shtml?Mode=1
Activists under scanner
Chhattisgarh police are quietly probing the allegation that human rights activists such as Medha Patkar, Nandini Sundar and Arundhati Roy have links with Maoists.
Top bosses of the police have asked Senior Superintendent of Police, Dantewada, S.R.P Kalluri for details on the alleged links.
Kalluri had alleged in an unsigned statement issued to the media that Patkar, Sundar, Roy and Himanshu Kumar, director of a Dantewada-based NGO, had close links with Maoist leader Lingaram Kodopi, who led the July 6 attack on local Congress leader Awdhesh Gautam's house, killing two persons.
“We need to find out the extent of the nexus as cited by the Dantewada SSP. The police will not spare anyone if they are found to be involved in any antistate operation,“ Inspector General of Police (Operations) Rajesh Mishra told HT.
He said they might even be treated as co-accused under the Chhattisgarh Special People's Security Act for waging war against the state. Mishra, however, did not officially reveal the names of the suspects.
The Communist Party of India criticised the state police on Tuesday for arresting three of their men for being involved in the July 6 attack.
The police arrested seven people and also questioned a photojournalist, Javed Iqbal, who worked for Kumar's NGO.
The leader of the July 6 attack, Lingaram Kodopi, a former special police officer, once pleaded to Chhattisgarh High Court that the Dantewada police had forced him to become an SPO.
Yeah, for the common people who are getting murdered and raped daily. But not for the democratic India's political leaders.
Link: http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/PU...sts-under-scanner-14072010013005.shtml?Mode=1
Activists under scanner
Chhattisgarh police are quietly probing the allegation that human rights activists such as Medha Patkar, Nandini Sundar and Arundhati Roy have links with Maoists.
Top bosses of the police have asked Senior Superintendent of Police, Dantewada, S.R.P Kalluri for details on the alleged links.
Kalluri had alleged in an unsigned statement issued to the media that Patkar, Sundar, Roy and Himanshu Kumar, director of a Dantewada-based NGO, had close links with Maoist leader Lingaram Kodopi, who led the July 6 attack on local Congress leader Awdhesh Gautam's house, killing two persons.
“We need to find out the extent of the nexus as cited by the Dantewada SSP. The police will not spare anyone if they are found to be involved in any antistate operation,“ Inspector General of Police (Operations) Rajesh Mishra told HT.
He said they might even be treated as co-accused under the Chhattisgarh Special People's Security Act for waging war against the state. Mishra, however, did not officially reveal the names of the suspects.
The Communist Party of India criticised the state police on Tuesday for arresting three of their men for being involved in the July 6 attack.
The police arrested seven people and also questioned a photojournalist, Javed Iqbal, who worked for Kumar's NGO.
The leader of the July 6 attack, Lingaram Kodopi, a former special police officer, once pleaded to Chhattisgarh High Court that the Dantewada police had forced him to become an SPO.
hemanthooda
New member
Arvind,
West bengal is under left rule for past 30 years or more, can you pl help me to understand why there is naxalism there???Land reforms were carried out in WB more than 20 years back.
BR/Hemant
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ravichaudhary
New member
In most of these places , land reform was in name only.
The huge landholdings continued,as did backwardness , abject poverty and total exploitation.
You have to visit Bengal to believe it.
I have known people with huge landholdings, where their tenants were little more than slaves. Remember slavery was legal until 1947, and slaves were bought and sold.
Ravi Chaudhary
Out of my last 10 post, probably 8 got deleted, not sure if this one stay but anyway allow me to add 2 lines again.(haha, nothing serious 
)
Anyone who raise arms against state will be taken care of be or in other words State is bound to react . But the state's responcibility doesn’t stop there, in this case at least. They need to do more on social front. As I have already said here many times, unless they do more on social front nothing much would change actually and something bad for the country can happen. Govt is more interested to protect big business group's interest rathar than poor man. Sometime I wonder when I myself(not living in naxal area) have very little faith in this Govt, to do more on social front how can we expect tribals to have faith in it. I wish, I am wrong on this.
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I still believe in what i said above. However one or two people branded me Maosist after that
But since the GOVT had introduced new laws Unlawful Activities Prevention (UAP) Act to punish Moasist sympathiser, I am bit scared------------- Lol.
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(http://www.hindustantimes.com/Sink-...Manmohan-tells-states/H1-Article1-572098.aspx)
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But lets still be hopeful. There are still wise people out there and people started thinking in a diff way. If they can change things !
)Anyone who raise arms against state will be taken care of be or in other words State is bound to react . But the state's responcibility doesn’t stop there, in this case at least. They need to do more on social front. As I have already said here many times, unless they do more on social front nothing much would change actually and something bad for the country can happen. Govt is more interested to protect big business group's interest rathar than poor man. Sometime I wonder when I myself(not living in naxal area) have very little faith in this Govt, to do more on social front how can we expect tribals to have faith in it. I wish, I am wrong on this.
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I still believe in what i said above. However one or two people branded me Maosist after that
But since the GOVT had introduced new laws Unlawful Activities Prevention (UAP) Act to punish Moasist sympathiser, I am bit scared-----
-------- Lol.*************************************************************
(http://www.hindustantimes.com/Sink-...Manmohan-tells-states/H1-Article1-572098.aspx)
*************************************************************
But lets still be hopeful. There are still wise people out there and people started thinking in a diff way. If they can change things !
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this is one of the best movies I have seen so far in 2010. Must watch.