hehehe.............Jab humare pass haath hain to computer ki kya jaroorat hai"..Yadi humari party jiti to hum computers ko sabhi jagah se hata denge![]()
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hehehe.............Jab humare pass haath hain to computer ki kya jaroorat hai"..Yadi humari party jiti to hum computers ko sabhi jagah se hata denge![]()
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Sunil Bhai, Even though I am not a fanatic fan of Sonia or Ramdev, I have respect for both as good human beings. Because I am not a political fanatic, I have immense respect for many people across political spectrum (including BJP). It would be only a paradox that the same people who have been critical of Sonia Gandhi for ruling the country by proxy are diehard supporters of another would be proxy ruler . To be good human being and being a practical politician are two different things. A good human being may not necessarily be eligible to be a good ruler; and that has been the mainstay of my counter arguments and not any personal animosity or allergy towards Baba Ramdev or anyone else. It is pitiable that some very learned and senior friends have been drawing very hasty conclusions and wrong inferences out of my posts. Pragmatism must take precedence over emotions and personal likings/disliking when it comes to choosing a leader.You r right Mr V.P.Singh, that he wants to fight elections & if his party won naturally he would be ruling by proxy. but people who r fine this idea, i do not know why they then hate Sonia Gandhi for ruling by proxy. Since i do not find any alternative with Congress or Bjp, i would like to give Baba Ramdev a chance. i know all his polices r not good, some r totally impractical, but i have faith in the smartness(shrewdness) of this man, that he will realize his wrong polices & implent something practical instead. he is a very quick learner. his demand to bring back "Balack Money frrom swiss bank" has been consitent from a long time, & bringing that black money will solve a lot of our problems. i hope u do not have a account in swiss bank(light humour).Tiil now whatever Topics he has raised have been very good, which of those topics, u did not like Mr singh. abt languages so many countries like germany, france, russia work in there languages & still r progressing a lot. other than that he will understand the importance of english language & i hope will not make big changes & even if he tries people wonot let him do it. though i completely support the movement "IndiaAgainstCorruption" but there is no harm in being little cautious coz so many time leaders take common people for a ride.
Deswal ji....there was no hatred just kind of criticism. I have words against Ramdev because I don't distinguish baba from same breed of politicians who have hollowed this country.Everyone has perceptions about politics and politicians, one likes hooda and criticize chautala other likes BJP and oppose congress. It has been on this site numerous times so what the big deal if I said "deceitful" to baba. People have said bad things here (including ME) about legendary chotu ram ji and charan singh ji (plz don't forget their contributions and achievements) and no one broke his/her silence so is it not an obsession for baba only? why is he getting a treatment of GOD? I don't understand why the hell people think him inventor of Yoga and ayurveda. India has a rich history in yoga and ayurveda. There are many others brands like vaidyanath, dabur, jhandu making the same stuff and how can you say there are no better yogis than ramdev in this land of sanyasis , just because they have no propaganda and strategy to be on front cover? Ramdev party is planning to contest election from all MP seats and you are saying that he is not dreaming to be a PM!!Iवी पि सिंह जी
वैसे मेरा वृंदा करत के बारे में बहुत ज्यादा नहीं, पर कम से कम इतना जरूर जानता था की उसने ऐसा बहुत बड़ा कोई काम नहीं किया जितना आपने उन्हें महिमा मंडित किया है !
कुछ मामलों में उनका दृष्टिकोण और काम अच्छा रहा होगा, लेकिन जरुरी नहीं की वो जो भी कहती करती हैं ब्रह्म वाकया है !
वृंदा करत से कहीं ज्यादा काम जगमाती सांगवान ने हरियाणा में किया होगा महिलाओं के लिए, लेकिन सगोत्र विवहा के मामले पर उनके नजरिये ने उन्हें भी विलेन बना दिया !
फिर भी मैंने उनके बारे में जानने की कोशिश की है, मुझे ऐसा नहीं लगता की बहुत बड़ा पद या बिज़नस का त्याग कर पब्लिक लाइफ में आयी हों, और आम आदमी के लिए कोई बहुत बड़ा त्याग किया हो ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinda_Karat
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I felt the moderator was unjust in editing my post.The moderator edited the related contents, claiming to be off topic.
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बाबा अगर, शिलाजीत या अन्य ताक़त की दवाई बनाते हैं और उनका प्रचार करते हैं , तब इसमें बुराई क्या है ? क्या आम आदमी का हक नहीं की वह भी ताक़त की दवाई खाए !
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आओ, मूल विषय पर आयें! आप माने या न माने, इस आन्दोलन के सूत्रधार बाबा हैं, उन्नोहने कभी नहीं कहा की वो खुद इलेक्शन लड़ना चाहते हैं, या प्रधानमंत्री बनाना चाहते हैं !
अगर इच्छा है भी, तब इसमें बुराई क्या है ? आपने तर्क दिया है की बाबा को रजनीति, शाशन और ब्रबंधन का अनुभव नहीं है, पर क्या जिन लोगों को अनुभव है, जो आज सत्ता में हैं या पहले थे , उनके अनुभव ने देश को सही दिशा दी ? देश की इस दुर्दशा के जिमेदार भी वो अनुभवी राजनेता हैं !
बाबा आम आदमी के लिए काम कर रहे हैं, केवल इसका प्रचार कर श्रेय नहीं ले रहे ! कम से कम मुझे जितना पता है, ग्रामीण जीवन में सुधार के लिए उन्होंने एक प्रिक्रिया शुरू की है !
इसके बारे में कुछ तथ्य जुटा, आप के साथ शेयर जरुर करूँगा !
खुश रहो !
Hooda sahab!! who is Arvind khejriwal? our JL mate or someone else?I have started this thread out of great deal of enthusiasm after reading about this new initiative. I have been there and believe me there was a great atmosphere.
Kiran Bedi, Swami Agnivesh, Arvind Khejriwal (I talked to him and found him a real inspirer. I couldnt doubt his sincerity a bit after reading about him, listening about him from a common friend, also talking to him that day). When some of us are even not able to pick enough time out of our lives to be a part of this compaign in any way, here we are pointing fingures at such personalities and after that not to share what is wrong with them so that others get benefitted out of it.
Its not a discussion about Ramdev being PM, its a personal choice if somebody doesnt want him to be then please dont vote. I have also voted against his creating a party to contest election in other thread. But even learned guys here twist their language to justify their bashing against him.
There was not even a single discussion in the rally about any politics, All the main takers of this compaign asked us to get together to be a part of non-party voting line. So that they could reach out to the party leaders and pressurise to implement Jan-Lokpal Bill .... I have read this draft and it sounds to me really good.
I request the intellectuals here on this site to please spare some time to read this draft and discuss that. It will surely bring some wave of change in our Indian society.
Please leave this Swiss Bank Money Back. It was also not the only stress of this compaign but the real stress is on to remove corruption lying in bueraucracy and political leaders. I think this is the need of hour.
I have written the following to my friends coming back from the March ... Sharing with you all .... with a request to please discuss Jan-LokPal Bill only now on wards ...
_________________________________________________
It was really a nice gathering at RamLeela Ground for March Against Corruption in Delhi. Around 10-15 thousand people were there from all streams. Good participation from ladies and girls.
Up on the stage were - Arvind Kejriwal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvind_Kejriwal), Kiran Bedi, Swami Agnivesh, Shashi Bhushan (Ex Law ministor), Prashant Bhusan (Co-drafter of Jan-Lokayukt Bill), Ram Jethmlani, Bank Association pradhan, Member from IIT alumani's, IAS, Suman Godara, Madhu Kishwar, Justice Tewatia, Medha patkar (Narmada bachao), Delegates of Baba Ramdev and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar etc
Speakers made the public understand what is Jan-Lokayukt Bill and whats wrong in the bill that this govt is putting on the floor.
Also shapath was taken by all ....
"Mein Shapath leta hun ki mein us party ko ane wale kisi bhi chunav mein vote nahi karunga, jo janta ke dwara banae gae lokpal athwa lokayukt bill ko wahan lagoo nahi karti hai jahan wo satta mein hai - weha chahe kendra mein ho ya rajyon mein"
1) To understand what is difference between the Lokayukt bill govt is trying and what these learned have drafted can be seen here ....
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/doc/General.pdf
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/doc/Critique_of_Govt._s_Lokpal_Bill_2010.pdf
2) Also people will have many queries regarding how the Jan-Lokayukt bill will be full-proof of corruption and what will be the selection process of the lokayukts and their commette .... you need to devote some time to go through the below ... its worth putting this much time on it ...
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/doc/Lokayukta_Bill_ver_1.5.pdf
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/doc/civil_society_s_lokpal_bil.pdf
3) The commeete will meet with Rastrapati, PM, Sonia, CMs of all the states, Advani and other party leaders. For this they have started to mobilise support in favour of Jan-Lokpal Bill which they have drafted for the common man by SMS and online votes. This will help them show the alternative vote bank that they have without any partyline and only for this Bill.
You people who couldnt make it to the march can participate by
a) http://voteforindia.org/
b) Send Message to 09230534959 with the following details
<INDIA>Space<Name, Address in Full, Email ID if you have any>
(Not sure but heard that this message will cost only 1 paise. Feel you wont mind if it would be Re 1)
4) Personally I find the group very much committed, full of intellect, credible and honest. The bill they have drafted indeed if implemented as-it-is will bring great deal of transparency and justice.
We should come out in support of this bill and should spread the information to your near and dear ones as to what is this bill and what is the hurdle before it.
Hooda sahab!! who is Arvind khejriwal? our JL mate or someone else?
Deswal ji....there was no hatred just kind of criticism. I have words against Ramdev because I don't distinguish baba from same breed of politicians who have hollowed this country.Everyone has perceptions about politics and politicians, one likes hooda and criticize chautala other likes BJP and oppose congress. It has been on this site numerous times so what the big deal if I said "deceitful" to baba. People have said bad things here (including ME) about legendary chotu ram ji and charan singh ji (plz don't forget their contributions and achievements) and no one broke his/her silence so is it not an obsession for baba only? why is he getting a treatment of GOD? I don't understand why the hell people think him inventor of Yoga and ayurveda. India has a rich history in yoga and ayurveda. There are many others brands like vaidyanath, dabur, jhandu making the same stuff and how can you say there are no better yogis than ramdev in this land of sanyasis , just because they have no propaganda and strategy to be on front cover? Ramdev party is planning to contest election from all MP seats and you are saying that he is not dreaming to be a PM!!
As far as this anti corruption march is concerned, I appreciate this move unless it turns out to be a pomp show of baba
Sorry to pupils of baba !!
I have started this thread out of great deal of enthusiasm after reading about this new initiative. I have been there and believe me there was a great atmosphere.
Kiran Bedi, Swami Agnivesh, Arvind Khejriwal (I talked to him and found him a real inspirer. I couldnt doubt his sincerity a bit after reading about him, listening about him from a common friend, also talking to him that day). When some of us are even not able to pick enough time out of our lives to be a part of this compaign in any way, here we are pointing fingures at such personalities and after that not to share what is wrong with them so that others get benefitted out of it.
Its not a discussion about Ramdev being PM, its a personal choice if somebody doesnt want him to be then please dont vote. I have also voted against his creating a party to contest election in other thread. But even learned guys here twist their language to justify their bashing against him.
There was not even a single discussion in the rally about any politics, All the main takers of this compaign asked us to get together to be a part of non-party voting line. So that they could reach out to the party leaders and pressurise to implement Jan-Lokpal Bill .... I have read this draft and it sounds to me really good.
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Just the way you could not avoid a mention of Kejriwal, it is impossible to avoid mention of Ramdev if the discussion is about the present anti-corruption campaign. Indian freedom movement cannot be discussed without a mention of Gandhi. How can you evaluate any movement without evaluation of its leaders. I presume, it is not a headless campaign and the names you mentioned are in the lead. Therefore, verification of the credentials of these people including Ramdev is essential. Moreover, there can be no water-tight format of any discussion and a free, fair and frank discussion is not possible without touching the related peripherals. Members cannot be expected to restrict their arguments on dotted lines.
Jakhar sahab!!.. VP singh ji stated how ramdev got involved in this discussion but it eventually turned a bit crude..so your idea of dumping Ramdev discussion is heartly accepted!!Prashant Ji,
The discussion was not about Ramdev's political ambitions, it was about the movement against corruption. You have the right to criticize anyone but at the same time we need to see the stage where to do it. If someone starts a thread about Ramdev and his political agenda then you have full rights of Ramdev bashing. Your post even did not include the word corruption/indiaagainstcorruption. It is not only Ramdev but tens of thousands of people who are taking active part in this move including Arvind Kejriwal, RTI activist and Raman Magsaysay award winner, Kiran Bedi, Sri Sri Ravishankar, Swami Agnivesh, and many more. Why should we focus on one personality? Why should we undermine the movement because of one person?
Please see the list of IAC leaders at below link:
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/iacleaders.html
You will find some Jats also listed there.![]()
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Agreed but we should not leave the main topic and do ramdev bashing only.Please read my above post.
1) To understand what is difference between the Lokayukt bill govt is trying and what these learned have drafted can be seen here ....
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/doc/General.pdf
http://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/doc/Critique_of_Govt._s_Lokpal_Bill_2010.pdf
India has all rules and laws but none get implemented.
Neo-Liberals Naazis , the moronic and useless citizens of any country, would support anything good but only when it suits their own cocoonish world view. By default they would oppose with their 7th super sense and funny thing is that it sucks royally. Corruption is human nature, accepted ; in day to day public life when it concerns major population and if someone popular is daring to at least walk against, we can understand the rendering nervousness in useless neo liberal's brain to just oppose it by taking infinite number of phony rationals.
No Vipin there are loopholes everywhere at present and we need stricter rules and laws.
सिस्टम का दोष
केंद्र में हमारे पास केंद्रीय सतर्कता आयोग है जो स्वतंत्र होने के बावजूद एक परामर्शदायी निकाय है। सीबीआई कहने को स्वतंत्र है लेकिन वह पूरी तरह से सरकार के अधीन है। हमारे भ्रष्टाचार विरोधी कानून भी बिल्कुल नाकारा हैं। आपको यह जानकर आश्चर्य होगा कि यदि किसी व्यक्ति को भ्रष्टाचार के मामले में सजा हो जाती है तो हमारे पास ऐसा कोई प्रावधान नहीं है जिससे उसके द्वारा सरकार को पहुंचाए गए नुकसान की भरपाई की जा सके, या भ्रष्ट तरीकों से अर्जित उसकी संपत्ति को जब्त किया जा सके। यदि हम भ्रष्टाचार के खिलाफ गंभीर हैं तो हमें अपने भ्रष्टाचार विरोधी तंत्र में संपूर्ण फेरबदल करना होगा।
हांगकांग की मिसाल
कई लोग मुझसे पूछते हैं कि क्या भारत कुछ करके दिखा सकता है? भारतीय आम तौर पर ईमानदार, बुद्धिमान और मेहनती हैं लेकिन वे एक सड़ी हुई व्यवस्था के शिकार हैं। 1970 के दशक में हांगकांग आज के भारत की तुलना में कहीं ज्यादा भ्रष्टाचार-ग्रस्त था। पुलिस और माफिया में सांठगांठ मजबूत होने से अपराध दर तेजी से बढ़ी। नतीजा यह हुआ किए एक दिन वहां लाखों लोग सड़कों पर उतर आए और सरकार को भ्रष्टाचार के खिलाफ मजबूरन एक स्वतंत्र आयोग गठित करना पड़ा। इस आयोग को संपूर्ण अधिकार दिए गए और तत्काल कार्रवाई करते हुए उसने 180 में से 119 पुलिस अफसरों को बर्खास्त कर दिया। इससे नौकरशाही में कड़ा संदेश गया और इसका नतीजा यह हुआ कि हांगकांग में आज भी बहुत ईमानदार सरकारी मशीनरी है।
भारत भी कुछ करके दिखा सकता है, बशर्ते हमारे यहां भी इसी तरह की भ्रष्टाचार निरोधक संस्था हो।
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