Mythology Vs Genetics

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vivekkaliyar

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Mythology Vs Genetics



http://www.merinews.com/clogarticle.jsp?articleID=124294&category=India&catID=2

Looking for my ancestors
Gaurav Atri
13 February 2007, Tuesday
Views: 2410 Comments: 1

My ancestors were Huns?
Eversince i read an article on Human Genome Project, the very thought about the origin of my Ancestors would bring a kind of excitement in my mind. Being a Jat from Western Uttar Pradesh i have heard from other ’Jats’ that our ancestors were from Scythia in Caucasus or some would say that they were from Central Asia and being so rough and tough the only ancestory suitable for us is from The Huns. To know about my past i started to read stuff and also surf the Internet, may be I will find some real clue or may one day find one of my ancestor staring at me from the screen. I started from my family name or my Gotra "Atri". Wah! Sachchiii? U know friends, we Atri Jats were children of Maharishi Atri(one of the Sapt Rishis) and who was in turn a son of Brahma, blah blah, and were originally from a village called Khadehya, but my ancestors migrated from there and founded 60 villages in Aligarh district. After this i couldn’t found any information regarding the ancestory of the Atri clan of Jats....if after going through gene therapy my ancestor comes out to be Attila the Hun, then what will be my reaction, will i feel proud?.....Frankly speaking, i would prefer my ancestors to be what i have been told and read, "Brahmaji" as ancestor is much better then "Attilaji" The Hun, lets hope that the Gene Therapy test is not made compulsory for everyone in India as there will be more Scythians, Parthians, Greeks, Huns, Persians and turks than "Indians". Well, I feel lucky to choose between Brahma and Attila the Hun but what will Bana clan of Jats do, they have to chose between Banasur the Mythological demon king and Attila the Hun, good luck to them.


Bana is a rigvedic ruling clan. The word Bāṇeya is used for the adherents of Banasura (बाणासुर). [1]. The present Bana clan may be identified with them. [2]








Namste to Seniors
Hello Everybody .
i am vivek from sahranpur .

with due respect i would like to start a serious discussion here . kindly gives your views .



1) were we really hindus . jats has never followed brahminisnm seriuosly .
arya samaj and sikhism started few hundered years ago only .

2) i don't see any custom which jats community follow as thier own custom . (please consider before sikhism or arya samaj )

3) do we really feel great after reading us bieng connected to mythologically kings and gods . (or we want to in order to prove ? )

4) we are covering large area of north india but we doecn't cover even 1 % percent of indian history records .

5) dev samhita say we are true warrior and ruler of the earth . but why there is no mention of this in indian history

6) i have never heard any brahmins teaching this things to any body

7) if we compile overall jat history from website it will make us thing every 3 /4 people on earth is jats .

8) we must mot try to make every body jat just on mythologically beleief .

9) we have our own thinking and attitude . we don't need to follow brahmins document blindly . tthis brahmins just created rajput community .

made them suryavanshi ,chandravanshi . nagavanshi , etc

10) if we all have same lineage than jats ,brahmins ,punjabis, dravidians ,chamars , aadivasi must have blood because somewhere our ancestor was one .

11)



11 ) they just connected us to this hindu god lineages to get favour .

12) lOGICALLY REFERNCES MUST BE aCCEPTED iNSTEAD Of MyTHOLOGICALLY cONCEPTS .

13) Infact lineAGE dATA is Mostly corrupted years .

14) if Brahmins says we are not even humans .will we accept this . i dont think so .

15) Communities which might have been offshoot from us must not be claimed as Jats by us . becuase they are mixed now . (SEE Agharia Jats article which makes even pandey ,patil of orrisa as jats , this just look like typical orrisa tribe now)
we must maintain our homogeneous community .

16) all the aspects must be taken with open mind .

17) ARYAN THEORY HAS BEEN PROVED FAILED SO ANOTHER INSTEAD ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE MUST BE TAKEN .

18) WHY DO WE ARE FEELING PROUD TO US ARYaiN .WHEN WORLD HAS CLOSED THIS THEORY . (SO WE ARE STILL VICTIM OF OLD FALSE THEORY AND WANT TO SHOW US ARYAIN)


19) ARYAIN MUST NOT BE SPECIFIED AS RACE . INSTEAD AS ANCIENT NOBLE PEOPLE WITH INDO EUROPEAN LINEAGE

20) JATS = barbarian tribe ???? (which can be fooled by brahmins) ????????





21 )what proves our lineaage . suryavanshi ,chandravanshi . nagavanshi , etc
1)custom
2)beleief
3)religion
4)brahmins false record
5)we feel proud to get connected with them
 
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vivekkaliyar said:
Mythology Vs Genetics



http://www.merinews.com/clogarticle.jsp?articleID=124294&category=India&catID=2

Looking for my ancestors
Gaurav Atri
13 February 2007, Tuesday
Views: 2410 Comments: 1

My ancestors were Huns?
Eversince i read an article on Human Genome Project, the very thought about the origin of my Ancestors would bring a kind of excitement in my mind. Being a Jat from Western Uttar Pradesh i have heard from other ’Jats’ that our ancestors were from Scythia in Caucasus or some would say that they were from Central Asia and being so rough and tough the only ancestory suitable for us is from The Huns. To know about my past i started to read stuff and also surf the Internet, may be I will find some real clue or may one day find one of my ancestor staring at me from the screen. I started from my family name or my Gotra "Atri". Wah! Sachchiii? U know friends, we Atri Jats were children of Maharishi Atri(one of the Sapt Rishis) and who was in turn a son of Brahma, blah blah, and were originally from a village called Khadehya, but my ancestors migrated from there and founded 60 villages in Aligarh district. After this i couldn’t found any information regarding the ancestory of the Atri clan of Jats....if after going through gene therapy my ancestor comes out to be Attila the Hun, then what will be my reaction, will i feel proud?.....Frankly speaking, i would prefer my ancestors to be what i have been told and read, "Brahmaji" as ancestor is much better then "Attilaji" The Hun, lets hope that the Gene Therapy test is not made compulsory for everyone in India as there will be more Scythians, Parthians, Greeks, Huns, Persians and turks than "Indians". Well, I feel lucky to choose between Brahma and Attila the Hun but what will Bana clan of Jats do, they have to chose between Banasur the Mythological demon king and Attila the Hun, good luck to them.


Bana is a rigvedic ruling clan. The word Bāṇeya is used for the adherents of Banasura (बाणासुर). [1]. The present Bana clan may be identified with them. [2]








Namste to Seniors
Hello Everybody .
i am vivek from sahranpur .

with due respect i would like to start a serious discussion here . kindly gives your views .



1) were we really hindus . jats has never followed brahminisnm seriuosly .
arya samaj and sikhism started few hundered years ago only .

2) i don't see any custom which jats community follow as thier own custom . (please consider before sikhism or arya samaj )

3) do we really feel great after reading us bieng connected to mythologically kings and gods . (or we want to in order to prove ? )

4) we are covering large area of north india but we doecn't cover even 1 % percent of indian history records .

5) dev samhita say we are true warrior and ruler of the earth . but why there is no mention of this in indian history

6) i have never heard any brahmins teaching this things to any body

7) if we compile overall jat history from website it will make us thing every 3 /4 people on earth is jats .

8) we must mot try to make every body jat just on mythologically beleief .

9) we have our own thinking and attitude . we don't need to follow brahmins document blindly . tthis brahmins just created rajput community .

made them suryavanshi ,chandravanshi . nagavanshi , etc

10) if we all have same lineage than jats ,brahmins ,punjabis, dravidians ,chamars , aadivasi must have blood because somewhere our ancestor was one .

11)



11 ) they just connected us to this hindu god lineages to get favour .

12) lOGICALLY REFERNCES MUST BE aCCEPTED iNSTEAD Of MyTHOLOGICALLY cONCEPTS .

13) Infact lineAGE dATA is Mostly corrupted years .

14) if Brahmins says we are not even humans .will we accept this . i dont think so .

15) Communities which might have been offshoot from us must not be claimed as Jats by us . becuase they are mixed now . (SEE Agharia Jats article which makes even pandey ,patil of orrisa as jats , this just look like typical orrisa tribe now)
we must maintain our homogeneous community .

16) all the aspects must be taken with open mind .

17) ARYAN THEORY HAS BEEN PROVED FAILED SO ANOTHER INSTEAD ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE MUST BE TAKEN .

18) WHY DO WE ARE FEELING PROUD TO US ARYaiN .WHEN WORLD HAS CLOSED THIS THEORY . (SO WE ARE STILL VICTIM OF OLD FALSE THEORY AND WANT TO SHOW US ARYAIN)


19) ARYAIN MUST NOT BE SPECIFIED AS RACE . INSTEAD AS ANCIENT NOBLE PEOPLE WITH INDO EUROPEAN LINEAGE

20) JATS = barbarian tribe ???? (which can be fooled by brahmins) ????????





21 )what proves our lineaage . suryavanshi ,chandravanshi . nagavanshi , etc
1)custom
2)beleief
3)religion
4)brahmins false record
5)we feel proud to get connected with them
Click to expand...

Very good thread and really need a painstaking session to reply each and every of your questions. Infact, you have put so many thing together and it is really a uphill task to congregate all in a single post . Moreover, your questions can be offensive to someone who just sitting with deaf ears , merely believe on cooked stories, just make big statements in the praises of jatts but become abusive when you ask counter questions. You may be even tagged as non-Jats, an other caste person on website in disguise of Jat. They want a monopoly on this website and pretty adamant to term each and every great person as Jat. so beware of them first and don't pay any heed if they gang up here and discourage you. All of your points are valid and can make busy to all historians of this site busy for few days............Thanks for putting up this topic.
We want a healthy discussion here. On your behalf, I invite to all Historians of this site to discuss on this and only if they are ready to face counter-arguments.

and the guys who areTHOOK_BILOING in general talk, please come here , we want to know how much you have read. No short replies, take each and every question and reply one by one..........
 
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.

I only notice that this is a duplicate thread (in fact a copy-paste of earlier thread by the same user) (though, this time, with a different title) :


ancestors were Huns (Started by Vivekkaliyar on 5<SUP>th</SUP> December 2007)

.<O:p</O:p
 
dndeswal said:
.

I only notice that this is a duplicate thread (in fact a copy-paste of earlier thread by the same user) (though, this time, with a different title) :


ancestors were Huns (Started by Vivekkaliyar on 5<SUP>th</SUP> December 2007)

.<O:p</O:p
Click to expand...

The earlier thread went empty, no one replied. Apologize but It would have been better if you had responded for the questions rather than being a search -engine. You seem pouring a lot in history section, what is your take on this?
 
prashantacmet said:
Very good thread and really need a painstaking session to reply each and every of your questions. Infact, you have put so many thing together and it is really a uphill task to congregate all in a single post . Moreover, your questions can be offensive to someone who just sitting with deaf ears , merely believe on cooked stories, just make big statements in the praises of jatts but become abusive when you ask counter questions. You may be even tagged as non-Jats, an other caste person on website in disguise of Jat. They want a monopoly on this website and pretty adamant to term each and every great person as Jat. so beware of them first and don't pay any heed if they gang up here and discourage you. All of your points are valid and can make busy to all historians of this site busy for few days............Thanks for putting up this topic.
We want a healthy discussion here. On your behalf, I invite to all Historians of this site to discuss on this and only if they are ready to face counter-arguments.

and the guys who areTHOOK_BILOING in general talk, please come here , we want to know how much you have read. No short replies, take each and every question and reply one by one..........
Click to expand...


you are right ! we need a healthy discussion .
 
prashantacmet said:
The earlier thread went empty, no one replied. Apologize but It would have been better if you had responded for the questions rather than being a search -engine. You seem pouring a lot in history section, what is your take on this?
Click to expand...


The original home of Jats is certainly connected with original home of Aryans, since Jat is a tribe of Aryan race. Some research also indicates that Huns are also a tribe of Aryans who probably migrated to central Asian region from Tibet area. Due to their location in central Asian region, Huns later became a barbaric race (due to climatic conditions and other factors). Jats of India, throughout the history, have been kind-hearted, civilised and most humane, unlike Huns.

My personal opinion is that though our physical structure or DNA characters may be matching to some extents, Huns are not our ancestors, though it may be possible that the ansectors of both Huns and Jats of India could be the same.
.
 
dndeswal said:
The original home of Jats is certainly connected with original home of Aryans, since Jat is a tribe of Aryan race..
Click to expand...

NO historical Records makes us aryan By Default .
it is a common tendency of people following hindu relegion to connect them with aryans . but history must be seen with neutral perspective .

being born in hindu relegion even i was told we are aryan . but when see indian history . jats are mentioned as maleechs , shudra ,kshatriya ,warrior etc . if we think were aryan we must already have own Image and historical records . because aryans were supposed to be the most educated civiliztaion of ancient times even though no brahmincal records are there .



Some research also indicates that Huns are also a tribe of Aryans who probably migrated to central Asian region from Tibet area.

------> hunas Never went to Tibet .



Due to their location in central Asian region, Huns later became a barbaric race (due to climatic conditions and other factors).

----> sycthic triibes were born barbarian tribes .
whole central asia and europe records them as brave and barbarian tribes .

Jats of India, throughout the history, have been kind-hearted, civilised and most humane, unlike Huns.



--->sad to read this that We are running away from our own history .
modern jats are educated but
civilized term for our ancester don't fit .


My personal opinion is that though our physical structure or DNA characters may be matching to some extents, Huns are not our ancestors, though it may be possible that the ansectors of both Huns and Jats of India could be the same.



time line of north west india . we can see our area has been inavded so many times .but where did these invader gone after this time period empire .



<table class="toccolours" cellpadding="3"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#CDCDCD"><th>Timeline:</th> <th>Northwestern India</th> <th>Northern India</th> <th>Southern India</th> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td> 6th century BCE
5th century BCE
4th century BCE

3rd century BCE
2nd century BCE

1st century BCE
1st century CE


2nd century
3rd century
4th century
5th century
6th century
7th century
8th century
9th century
10th century
11th century
</td> <td>
(Persian rule)
(Greek conquests)












(Islamic conquests)


(Islamic Empire)


</td> <td>
















</td> <td>
















</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
dndeswal said:
The original home of Jats is certainly connected with original home of Aryans, since Jat is a tribe of Aryan race
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input deswal ji.

This is a big question, Jats were scythians or aryans? Historians have balanced view on this. Half of them believed jats to be aryans and other half scythians.
As far as aryans is concerned, most historians believe, central asia (modern day Iran) was home of aryans, was a caucassian race, migrated to europe and india. Hitler claimed himself of aryan race and massacred semitic people. Now if you look any race/caste of India, none of them is caucassian, all are hybrid, some more some less. Though some historians say that modern day Jats/Gujjar/Rajputs are best representative of aryans. So If we believe the aryan concept, aryans came in India, took the wife from native indians( not caucassian) and in turn some hybrid race borne here.

Though there are historians who says India was the original home of aryans, they migrated from India to all over the world. Though this claim does not hold enough significance because aryans are caucassian everywhere except India. How it is possible taht a casucassian race became a hybrid at its origin himself when it maintained it racial purity at all other place in the world.

. Some research also indicates that Huns are also a tribe of Aryans who probably migrated to central Asian region from Tibet area. Due to their location in central Asian region, Huns later became a barbaric race (due to climatic conditions and other factors). Jats of India, throughout the history, have been kind-hearted, civilised and most humane, unlike Huns.
Click to expand...
Above claim does not make any sense. Aryan was the finest race. They were tall, big eyes, handsome and civilized while hunas were short in length, barbaric and having small eyes. I don't see any connection of aryans with scythians/hunas. Though it may be possible when scythains/hunas migrated from their original home, spraed around and they assimilated with the local people. Scythians and Hunas both were barbaric tribes if we look the historians perspective, only Gujjars are said to be originated from "Khazar" tribe of Hunas, ancestors of jats are said to be Scythians not Hunas.

So my view, jats of india seem to be hybrid of aryans,dravidians and scythians
 
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vivekkaliyar said:
NO historical Records makes us aryan By Default .
it is a common tendency of people following hindu relegion to connect them with aryans . but history must be seen with neutral perspective .
Click to expand...

Vivek, historians have mixed view on this. Some of them believe our ancestors to be of aryan race.

being born in hindu relegion even i was told we are aryan . but when see indian history . jats are mentioned as maleechs , shudra ,kshatriya ,warrior etc .

if we think were aryan we must already have own Image and historical records . because aryans were supposed to be the most educated civiliztaion of ancient times even though no brahmincal records are there .
Click to expand...

Brahmins entitled the race as malechas and shudras who did not show faith in them and did not give a $hit to their rituals and superstitions. Scytians entered in India near 500 BC, they fought with local people and settled in modern day Punjab and sindh, they got mixed with local people (aryans/dravidians hybrid). some of these mixed people (hybrid of aryans,dravidians and scythians) accepted Brahmin's supremacy, they were called true kshtriya, other were termed as malechhas because most of them converted into Buddhism. So jats of modern day punjab have more scythians blood in comparsion of moden day haryana/rajasthan and west UP. These Jats seem to be more aryans


Some research also indicates that Huns are also a tribe of Aryans who probably migrated to central Asian region from Tibet area.

------> hunas Never went to Tibet .
Click to expand...
Nope, some research show that Hunas were associated with Xiongnu people who later on built Han kingdom in china.


Due to their location in central Asian region, Huns later became a barbaric race (due to climatic conditions and other factors).

----> sycthic triibes were born barbarian tribes .
whole central asia and europe records them as brave and barbarian tribes .

Jats of India, throughout the history, have been kind-hearted, civilised and most humane, unlike Huns.
Click to expand...


Right, scythians/hunas were born barbric. Goth people of germany are supposed to be scythian descendant and a DNA study confirm some similarity between Goth and jats. I don't understand Hunas connection with Jats
My personal opinion is that though our physical structure or DNA characters may be matching to some extents, Huns are not our ancestors, though it may be possible that the ansectors of both Huns and Jats of India could be the same.



time line of north west india . we can see our area has been inavded so many times .but where did these invader gone after this time period empire .



<table class="toccolours" cellpadding="3"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#CDCDCD"><th>Timeline:</th> <th>Northwestern India</th> <th>Northern India</th> <th>Southern India</th> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td> 6th century BCE
5th century BCE
4th century BCE

3rd century BCE
2nd century BCE

1st century BCE
1st century CE


2nd century
3rd century
4th century
5th century
6th century
7th century
8th century
9th century
10th century
11th century
</td> <td>


(Persian rule)
(Greek conquests)


















(Islamic conquests)




(Islamic Empire)


</td> <td>




























</td> <td>


























</td></tr></tbody></table>
Click to expand...

Simple, they assimilated with the local population. In punjab, modern day khatri are representative of Greek (alexander attack) and jatts of scythians
 
prashantacmet said:
Vivek, historians have mixed view on this. Some of them believe our ancestors to be of aryan race.
Click to expand...
These Jats seem to be more aryans
Click to expand...
What makes us Aryan .?


  • Custom
  • RELIGION
  • Belive
  • Brahmins Sayings



Every hindu in this country tries to connect themslves to aryan . ( to prove raical sepriority) .
we are obsessed of this .
many jats gotra claims rishis and other mythological characters . because gotra sounds somewhat similiar . (without any proof )

bieng living in haryana ,punjab ,rajasthan ,pakistan which is said to be aryan home . we are no where in indian history . we don't have our own record and has been treated foriegner to this land by other communites .

where do jats as a caste fits in hindu caste system . ? (it is like puzzle)

why do have been treated as maleech ,shudra ,warrior ,kshatirya all together . being an aryan there must not have any such conspiracy .


Brahmins entitled the race as malechas and shudras who did not show faith in them and did not give a $hit to their rituals and superstitions.
Click to expand...
real aryans has total faith in brahminism . that why they had lots of gurus and rishis .
but we don't .

once whole north west india was following buddism (possibly in saka era ) . where were we at that time . do we were practising hinduism ??

Scytians entered in India near 500 BC, they fought with local people and settled in modern day Punjab and sindh, they got mixed with local people (aryans/dravidians hybrid). some of these mixed people (hybrid of aryans,dravidians and scythians) accepted Brahmin's supremacy, they were called true kshtriya, other were termed as malechhas because most of them converted into Buddhism. So jats of modern day punjab have more scythians blood in comparsion of moden day haryana/rajasthan and west UP.
Click to expand...
you are right they ruled here for about more than 1000 years for 500 bc to 700 ad .


Nope, some research show that Hunas were associated with Xiongnu people who later on built Han kingdom in china.
Click to expand...
yes some hunas trbies are some time connected with han dynasty and supposed toget mixed with them .

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]while some other Hunas(non mongoloid) invaded india [/FONT] . but both are different wave .


Right, scythians/hunas were born barbric. Goth people of germany are supposed to be scythian descendant and a DNA study confirm some similarity between Goth and jats. I don't understand Hunas connection with Jats
Click to expand...
yes hunas do joined us as even they were treated foriegner by natives .

infact it was easy for these tribes to mixed with us because of we all are of sycthian roots . they were maleech for others . but brothers for us .


Simple, they assimilated with the local population. In punjab, modern day khatri are representative of Greek (alexander attack) and jatts of scythians
Click to expand...
greek kingdom was upto mathura and
scythian hunas parthian kushans etc rules haryana , punjab rajashthan , pakistan always etc

jats are only in area which has been ruled b y these barbarian tribes (1000 years must have dramatic effect on this area)


how these chandravabnshi ,suryavanshi , nagvanshi ETC
kingdoms survive in these 1200 years of time .
INFACT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT THESE KINGDOMS STAYED SIDE BY SIDE WITH SCYTHIAN ( sakas( HUNAS ,PARTHIAN ,KUSHAN ,) KINGDOMS .

IT IS LIKE A JOKE ON OUR HISTORY .
 
Aryan invasion theory is just a theory. Till date, there is not a single archaeological evidence to prove it.
 
Studies linking Roma (gypsies) people of Europe to Jats. There is a recent discovery on a medical condition in these people that is being called "Jat Mutation"

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/146142.php

From wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

Origins

Main article: Origin of the Romani people
Linguistic and genetic evidence indicates the Romanies originated from the Indian subcontinent, emigrating from India towards the northwest no earlier than the 11th century. The Romani are generally believed to have originated in central India, possibly in the modern Indian state of Rajasthan, migrating to northwest India (the Punjab region) around 250 BC. In the centuries spent here, there may have been close interaction with such established groups as the Rajputs and the Jats. Their subsequent westward migration, possibly in waves, is believed to have occurred between AD 500 and AD 1000. Contemporary populations sometimes suggested as sharing a close relationship to the Romani are the Dom people of Western Asia and North Africa and the Banjara of India.<SUP id=cite_ref-41 class=reference>[42]</SUP>
The emigration from India likely took place in the context of the raids by Mahmud of Ghazni<SUP id=cite_ref-42 class=reference>[43]</SUP> As these soldiers were defeated, they were moved west with their families into the Byzantine Empire. The 11th century terminus post quem is due to the Romani language showing unambiguous features of the Modern Indo-Aryan languages,<SUP id=cite_ref-43 class=reference>[44]</SUP> precluding an emigration during the Middle Indic period.
Genetic evidence supports the mediaeval migration from India. The Romanies have been described as "a conglomerate of genetically isolated founder populations",<SUP id=cite_ref-Luba_Kalaydjieva_44-0 class=reference>[45]</SUP> while a number of common Mendelian disorders among Romanies from all over Europe indicates "a common origin and founder effect".<SUP id=cite_ref-Luba_Kalaydjieva_44-1 class=reference>[45]</SUP><SUP id=cite_ref-45 class=reference>[46]</SUP> A study from 2001 by Gresham et al. suggests "a limited number of related founders, compatible with a small group of migrants splitting from a distinct caste or tribal group".<SUP id=cite_ref-David_Gresham_46-0 class=reference>[47]</SUP> The same study found that "a single lineage ... found across Romani populations, accounts for almost one-third of Romani males."<SUP id=cite_ref-David_Gresham_46-1 class=reference>[47]</SUP> A 2004 study by Morar et al. concluded that the Romani population "was founded approximately 32–40 generations ago, with secondary and tertiary founder events occurring approximately 16–25 generations ago".<SUP id=cite_ref-Bharti_Morar_47-0 class=reference>[48]</SUP>
Possible connection with the Jat people

While the South Asian origin of the Romani people has been long considered a certitude, the exact South Asian group from whom the Romanies have descended has been a matter of debate. The discovery in 2009 of the "Jat mutation" that causes a type of glaucoma in Romani populations suggests that the Romani people are the descendants of the Jat people found in Northern India and Pakistan.<SUP id=cite_ref-Jatt_mutation_48-0 class=reference>[49]</SUP><SUP id=cite_ref-49 class=reference>[50]</SUP> This relation to Jats had earlier been suggested by Michael Jan de Goeje in 1883.<SUP id=cite_ref-50 class=reference>[51]</SUP> The 2009 glaucoma study however contradicts an earlier study that compared the most common haplotypes found in Romani groups with those found in Jatt Sikhs and Jats from Haryana and found no matches.<SUP id=cite_ref-51 class=reference>[52]</SUP> The haplogroup H, which is the most common haplogroup in Romanis is far more prevalent in central India and south India than it is in northern India, where haplogroup R1a lineages make up at least half of male ancestries, and haplogroup H is rare.
 
kapdal said:
Aryan invasion theory is just a theory. Till date, there is not a single archaeological evidence to prove it.
Click to expand...
so kapil what do you wanna say? so aryans never migrated in or out India or no caste/race of india has any connection with aryans?
 
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kapdal said:
Romila Thapar says that Aryans and Dravidians are not racial categories, but linguistic.
http://www.hindu.com/2004/03/22/stories/2004032201661001.htm
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May be she is saying it for India but there is a race known as aryan , based on speaking Indo-european languages and a sub race of caucassian race(though it is not clear all Indo-European speakers are caucassians). Term may be linguistic but it represents a group of people speaking same type of languages, body structure and genetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race general view

ICHR study says all Indians belong to the same gene pool.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=2006062412870400.htm&date=2006/06/24/&prd=th%22
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If this is true then why mallus look different?.. How can you identify a Jat just by his physical appearance. It is true that all caste/tribe sof india are hybrid but some are less. Basically you can easily distinguish a north Indian from south Indian
 
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Originally written by Kapdal...Studies linking Roma (gypsies) people of Europe to Jats. There is a recent discovery on a medical condition in these people that is being called "Jat Mutation"
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If the physical features of Roma (gypsies) are to be taken as evidence, the theory linking them to Jats seems to be authentic. They are, however, scattered all over Europe, their main concentration is in East Europe, especially in Romania. I got ample opportunity to interact with these people in Romania (1990-93). These people are considered as pariah because of their lowly habits and educational backwardness. In Romania, profession of the majority of Roma people (called Cigans also in local language) is agriculture+ petty jobs+hawking+theft+ pick-pocketing+ prostitution. They picked my pocket twice and cheated me once while exchanging money. These people claim to have migrated from India through surface route.
 
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Shoodra, Malechchh
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कूण से पंडत सै वे, जो जाटां नै शूद्र बतावै हैं???
मन्नै तो लाग्गै है कुछ जाट ही पंडतां गैल्ला जूत बजवाण ताहीं इसे-इसे झूठे चमोले फला रे सै...ना तै पंडत तै म्हारे भाई सै जो जाटां नै 'जिजमान-जिजमान' राखै सै कधे तै...

इसे-इसे भूत कड़ै तै शूद्र लाग्गै सै...

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जाटां नै शूद्र बतावण वाला जो कित्तै कोई सै तो उसनै याहड़ै ल्याओ नै, ऊह नै बणावै फिट याहड़ै...
 
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vpsingh said:
If the physical features of Roma (gypsies) are to be taken as evidence, the theory linking them to Jats seems to be authentic. They are, however, scattered all over Europe, their main concentration is in East Europe, especially in Romania. I got ample opportunity to interact with these people in Romania (1993-97). These people are considered as pariah because of their lowly habits and educational backwardness. In Romania, profession of the majority of Roma people (called Cigans also in local language) is agriculture+ theft+ pick-pocketing+ prostitution. They picked my pocket twice and cheated me once while exchanging money. These people claim to have migrated from India through surface route.
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These people were exterminated by Hitler along with Jews at the of racial supremacy. Hitler called them filth, Roma gypsy doe snot earn any respect in entire Europe and If we talk about famous people among them , they are in the list of singers, dancers etc. VP ji, a syou met some of them personally, you better know about them...........
 
prashantacmet said:
May be she is saying it for India but there is a race known as aryan , based on speaking Indo-european languages and a sub race of caucassian race(though it is not clear all Indo-European speakers are caucassians). Term may be linguistic but it represents a group of people speaking same type of languages, body structure and genetics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan_race general view

If this is true then why mallus look different?.. How can you identify a Jat just by his physical appearance. It is true that all caste/tribe sof india are hybrid but some are less. Basically you can easily distinguish a north Indian from south Indian
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I am far from being an expert on this. But my understanding is that Aryan Invasion Theory (Dravidians were original people of whole India, Aryans invaded at one point of time and pushed them to south) is universally discarded. There is absolutely no evidence of this.

The alternative theory was Aryan Migration Theory, which says people from Persia, Europe, etc. migrated over a long period of time (as opposed to invading with horses and swords in one go). There is another theory that current Indians are indigenous people. Now, these new theories are widely overlapping. The genetic, archelogical and scriptural evidence of these is mixed. Something favors one more, something the other.

What those links are saying is that there is no such race as Aryan- race being a very technical word here- the known races being African, Caucasian, etc. North Indian look very different from South Indians and all of us look differently from Europeans. I don't have a definitive answer for that. No one has. But it is quite plausible that they are mixture of some indigenous people of India and a long wave of migrants from North-West over centuries. Different mixing may have happened in different regions at different times. If you believe that, then a Caucasian race and derivatives thereof can be part of the same Indo-European linguistic group. But this group doesn't qualify as a race (again technically speaking). This is like my current guess. It keeps changing based on what evidence I see. And I am sure we'd find out many new things in future.
 
vivekkaliyar said:
What makes us Aryan .?



  • Custom
  • RELIGION
  • Belive
  • Brahmins Sayings
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As there are loopholes in aryans invasion theory, a common acceptance is that aryans were the inhabitants of central asia (Iran) . Just assume there was no migration of aryans in India and native of north India were also called aryans (based on linguistic theory). I am not sure about the oldest book that has reference of "arya" word that been "noble man". As rigveda is oldest scripture, so probably that should have a reference of "arya".
Now let us take your view point, tehre were native in India, after scythian invasion, scythians people mixed with those people. As today itself most jats are "vedic" not "hindu"..so jats never accepted Brahmins supremacy. You need to understand teh differerence, brahmisn of medieval India were not vedic but Hindu. As it sia proven fact that scythians who migrated to india were follower of Buddishm so termed as malechaas, shudra etc.
When scythians invasion occurred, "Vedic" was fading away and "hindu" was taking over. I mean to say, people were inclined to idolatry, brahmins cooked fictious stories adn vedic people were entrapped into superstitions and false rituals, brahmins changed vedic religion to hinduism just for tehir benifit. As some native ( most of them are jats today) could not digest this false theory so they denied hinduism and merged with scythians accepting Buddhism. It is a different thing that these peopple again converted to hinduism/vedic few centuries later but they could not get high place among the Hinduism caste lineage. All of this happened between 500 BC to 900 AD and history of this period is quite controversial and vague.

So i just want to say that jats are mixed too, they are not too pure scythians blood.

Every hindu in this country tries to connect themslves to aryan . ( to prove raical sepriority) .
we are obsessed of this .
many jats gotra claims rishis and other mythological characters . because gotra sounds somewhat similiar . (without any proof )

bieng living in haryana ,punjab ,rajasthan ,pakistan which is said to be aryan home . we are no where in indian history . we don't have our own record and has been treated foriegner to this land by other communites .

where do jats as a caste fits in hindu caste system . ? (it is like puzzle)

why do have been treated as maleech ,shudra ,warrior ,kshatirya all together . being an aryan there must not have any such conspiracy .


real aryans has total faith in brahminism . that why they had lots of gurus and rishis .
but we don't .

once whole north west india was following buddism (possibly in saka era ) . where were we at that time . do we were practising hinduism ??
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All were not practising Buddism, some were in hinduism. As GUPTA vansha emrged at that time following hindusim and some scholars considers GUPTA as Jats of DHARAN gotra originally from Mathura . So you can not say, all Jats were Hindus or Buddisht. an dmost important question is, at that time were there people called as Jats? I guess It has been discussed on this site, you can search for that.

you are right they ruled here for about more than 1000 years for 500 bc to 700 ad .

yes some hunas trbies are some time connected with han dynasty and supposed toget mixed with them .

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]while some other Hunas(non mongoloid) invaded india [/FONT] . but both are different wave .


yes hunas do joined us as even they were treated foriegner by natives .

infact it was easy for these tribes to mixed with us because of we all are of sycthian roots . they were maleech for others . but brothers for us .
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There is a reference in a book "ajay jarto hunan" meaning (though controversial) "jatton ne huno ko haraya" so a a derivation can be taht Huns can not be Jats. hunas invaded india nearly 400 AD, so not sure that also mixed with jats or not. Though some historians says they got mixed with gujjars


how these chandravabnshi ,suryavanshi , nagvanshi ETC
kingdoms survive in these 1200 years of time .
INFACT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT THESE KINGDOMS STAYED SIDE BY SIDE WITH SCYTHIAN ( sakas( HUNAS ,PARTHIAN ,KUSHAN ,) KINGDOMS .

IT IS LIKE A JOKE ON OUR HISTORY .
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Yes, this is really a question
 
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