They (Devi Lal Supporters were blind) had no vested interest where as the supporters now have their own interest to do all those things.
The true nature of Jan Lok Pal Bill Movement
- Thread starter drrajpalsingh
- Start date
anilsangwan
Active member
I agree with you. Ch Devilal followers had no vested interests. All these congressis have 
Very true that speculating on wild possibilities may lead to losing track of the main issue. But, while walking down the track one should not lose sight of the pitfalls on the margins. Also, blindly following any track may lead to wilderness. I agree with you that Anna's movement has contributed in a big way in raising awareness and I have been one of his sympathizers through this campaign. But, I don't see any harm to the movement if it is critically examined in the light of rumours, media reports, speculations or any other hostile campaign by Anna-baiters. It is my observation, which may be wrong, that Anna is apparently being driven more by some of his affluent elites rather than his own wisdom. The strategy and line of action for his movement is not being drawn by Anna himself all the time, which is not feasible too. For example, strategy for Hissar bye-election was not Anna's brain child for which he had to face a little embarrassment and criticism even from people of his genre and his own camp followers like Justice Hegde. There is absolutely, no question mark on Anna's individual integrity but some of his associates may not be treated as Caesar's wife. Certainly, some of them have been nurturing political ambitions. This campaign is also being backed by some political parties and their fringe groups just to derive some short term political gains. Hence, a hawk's eye is necessary to gaze through such mass movements, especially when it is spearheaded by a loosely knit group of people with divergent political views and philosophy. We have to ensure that the edifice of our democracy is not damaged by such tremors. Therefore, we have to be very vigilant and selective in endorsing such campaigns rather than fully endorsing it in toto without subjecting it to any criticism while buckling under the weight of mobocracy.
I have observed that some boys are trying to monopolize Team Anna & its anti-corruption movement. I hope, they will not apply for any intellectual property right and will let people having divergent views to participate in the discussion without being acrimonious and unduly nervous. I hope moderators are also very vigilant about the acrimonious polemics, unnecessary feud and irrelevant remarks and will suitably act upon this.
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anilsangwan
Active member
Kiran Bedi, Arvind Kejriwal, Bhushans, Kumar Vishwas and other distinguished Team Anna members --- - Even If they have political ambition - what is wrong with that?? At least they are first doing something better for this country and then in return if they come and ask for our votes... whats wrong? At least better than current MPs and MLAs who first take the votes and then repeat the history of "doing nothing".
Lokpal alone can not get rid of ill fate of this country. It will stop corruption. But the corrupt politics will be cured only when corrupt people like Laloo Yadav, Mulayam Singh Yadav, Sharad Yadav, Sharad Pawar, A Raja, Karunanidhi Khandaan including Kanimori, Maran Bandhus and so many more dumbos will lose elctions everytime. Poor Manmohan doesnt fight elections anyways!
And that can happen only with strong candidates fighting against them.
Today India has to decide if it wants to see people like Lalooo Yadav in politics or people like Dr Kiran Bedi --- Sibbal or Bhushan..........and Kejriwal or A Raja........
Let us raise above the partyline and support the cause.!!!
PS: I have named corrupt politicians across diff parties... Congressis pls dont take it otherwise.
Lokpal alone can not get rid of ill fate of this country. It will stop corruption. But the corrupt politics will be cured only when corrupt people like Laloo Yadav, Mulayam Singh Yadav, Sharad Yadav, Sharad Pawar, A Raja, Karunanidhi Khandaan including Kanimori, Maran Bandhus and so many more dumbos will lose elctions everytime. Poor Manmohan doesnt fight elections anyways!
And that can happen only with strong candidates fighting against them.
Today India has to decide if it wants to see people like Lalooo Yadav in politics or people like Dr Kiran Bedi --- Sibbal or Bhushan..........and Kejriwal or A Raja........
Let us raise above the partyline and support the cause.!!!
PS: I have named corrupt politicians across diff parties... Congressis pls dont take it otherwise.
ravindersura
New member
इसमें क गलत कह स वे ठीक ऐ तो कह स | अन्ना के साथ सिर्फ 'lacs of people ' स पर इन चोरो के साथ तो करोड़ों हैं | जनमत जिसके साथ होता हैं वोही सही होता हैं इस हिसाब से तो ये नेता ठीक हैं अन्ना गलत , अगर अन्ना को अपना वहम निकालना हो तो इन चोरो के खिलाफ चुनाव लड़ के देख ले ये अन्ना का जनमत आल्ला वहम भी निकाल देंगे
ravindersura
New member
शायद आप लोगो को ध्यान हो 92 -93 में किरण बेदी की लड़की का mbbs में दाखिले का मुद्दा बहुत उठा था मीडिया में की किरण बेदी ने अपने रुतबे रोब से अपनी लड़की का दाखिला करवाया हैं | अब एयर टिकेट में पैसे खाने का मुद्दा जो इसने वापस लौटाने की बात कहकर निपटा दिया | अगर यह सब इमानदारी में आते हैं तो फिर देश में भ्रष्टाचार कहीं नहीं हैं |
अरविन्द केजरीवाल ने तो बनियों वाली दिखा दी जब दाब पड़ी तो झटपट जाके 9 लाख रूपये भर आया और आखिर में कह दी ' अड़ पाछे कोड़ट में अपील कड़ूगा ' | लोगा पे इसा कोई क्लेम आ जा स तो लोग पहले कोर्ट की शरण में जाते देखे स यो एक इसा देखा स जो पहले कर्जा ठा के पैसे भरे स आर फेर पाछे कोर्ट में जागा |
रही बात इस प्रशांत भूषण की तो कोई न्यू बता दो की यो और इसका बाबू एक तारीख के कितने पैसे ले स ? और इन दोनों ने कितने गरीबों के केस जायज फीस या फ्री में लड़े हैं जो आज इनको आम आदमी की चिंता सता रही हैं ?
एक रिफ्यूजी भापन (बेदी) एक बानिया (केजरीवाल) एक बाह्मण (भूषण) कमाल स | इस देश में जितने भी घोटाले हुए स उन सबके जनक इन तीनो की जातियों से आते हैं | चोर ऐ आवाज़ उठान लागे स कमाल स | एक यो बानिया तो कुलदीप बिश्नोई ने ऐ ईमानदार बतावे था हिसार के इलेक्शन में अगर वोहे इमानदार स तो फेर हाम तो धाप के चोर सा |
इन सारे चोरा ने एक बेचारा यो ईमानदार बुढा पा रया स इसने बावला बना के छोड़ेंगे |
राजा , कनिमोड़ी , कलमाड़ी , 93 के टेलिकॉम घोटाले के पंडित सुखराम को सजा क्या इस लोकपाल के आधार पर हुई हैं ? आज भी भ्रष्टाचार निरोधक महकमे हैं पर वो कार्यवाही तभी करते हैं जब कोई उसमे शिकायत करता हैं , यह लोकपाल भी तभी कार्यवाही करेगा जब कोई उसमे शिकायत करेगा | जब तक कोई शिकायत ही नहीं करेगा तो कार्यवाही कैसे होगी |
अरविन्द केजरीवाल ने तो बनियों वाली दिखा दी जब दाब पड़ी तो झटपट जाके 9 लाख रूपये भर आया और आखिर में कह दी ' अड़ पाछे कोड़ट में अपील कड़ूगा ' | लोगा पे इसा कोई क्लेम आ जा स तो लोग पहले कोर्ट की शरण में जाते देखे स यो एक इसा देखा स जो पहले कर्जा ठा के पैसे भरे स आर फेर पाछे कोर्ट में जागा |
रही बात इस प्रशांत भूषण की तो कोई न्यू बता दो की यो और इसका बाबू एक तारीख के कितने पैसे ले स ? और इन दोनों ने कितने गरीबों के केस जायज फीस या फ्री में लड़े हैं जो आज इनको आम आदमी की चिंता सता रही हैं ?
एक रिफ्यूजी भापन (बेदी) एक बानिया (केजरीवाल) एक बाह्मण (भूषण) कमाल स | इस देश में जितने भी घोटाले हुए स उन सबके जनक इन तीनो की जातियों से आते हैं | चोर ऐ आवाज़ उठान लागे स कमाल स | एक यो बानिया तो कुलदीप बिश्नोई ने ऐ ईमानदार बतावे था हिसार के इलेक्शन में अगर वोहे इमानदार स तो फेर हाम तो धाप के चोर सा |
इन सारे चोरा ने एक बेचारा यो ईमानदार बुढा पा रया स इसने बावला बना के छोड़ेंगे |
राजा , कनिमोड़ी , कलमाड़ी , 93 के टेलिकॉम घोटाले के पंडित सुखराम को सजा क्या इस लोकपाल के आधार पर हुई हैं ? आज भी भ्रष्टाचार निरोधक महकमे हैं पर वो कार्यवाही तभी करते हैं जब कोई उसमे शिकायत करता हैं , यह लोकपाल भी तभी कार्यवाही करेगा जब कोई उसमे शिकायत करेगा | जब तक कोई शिकायत ही नहीं करेगा तो कार्यवाही कैसे होगी |
Sir ji, it reflects from your posts that you've strong inclination towards Congress. Aap bhi maan jaao ye baat!
As for me, yeah I admire RSS but not a member of it. If it looks from my posts that I'm a RSS follower then you're mistaken .. however if you affiliate me to RSS, I won't mind.
As for me, yeah I admire RSS but not a member of it. If it looks from my posts that I'm a RSS follower then you're mistaken .. however if you affiliate me to RSS, I won't mind.
While I agree that Jit did jump the gun, but to use this error as a tool to malign RSS is uncalled for. It's not easy to be a member of RSS, as it requires one to follow a strict code of ethics and conduct which is something that not everyone can follow. It's unlike being a member of certain political party where the only qualification to be a member is to have a servile mentality (this is true in the current situation when there is no internal democracy there. Else the party has an illustrious and inimitable history). RSS, a nationalist organisation, has been working quietly for the betterment of Hindus in particular and Indian Society in general.
There has been desperate attempt to malign the anti-corruption movement, suspect of foreign hand etc etc. Below blog is a fitting reply to all who suspect the genuineness of the movement:
http://blogs.economictimes.indiatim...p-10-myths-about-the-anti-corruption-movement.
A number of myths have been propagated over the past year about the anti-corruption movement ranging from crafty attempts to derail the movement to gross mis-representation.
1. It is anti-Congress: Those in the Congress (and unfortunately many among the general public) believe that the anti-corruption movement is against the Congress. The Hissar election is often cited as an example. The reality is that the Congress party is in power today as the head of the UPA and wields enough power to pass this bill provided it can muster the required leadership and sheer “backbone” needed to carry along its allies. Unfortunately, there isn’t consensus in the Congress. Many in the Congress starting at the very top shudder at the thought of an independent investigative body and simply can’t come to terms with the idea. The anti-Congress label is an escape route with no basis. An party in power that is unwilling to pass a strong anti-corruption bill would have faced identical protests.
2. It is pro-BJP: If you are against the Congress you are pro-BJP is the automatic conclusion but also an unfortunate gross mis-representation. Team Anna has criticized the BJP governments in Gujarat and Karnataka, to mention a couple of their anti-BJP moves. The fact that BJP participated in an anti-corruption rally organized by Team Anna does not in any way confirm their BJP links. The rally was open to all parties including the Congress party. Sharing a dais does not equate to being idealogical bedfellows.
3. It is anti-reservation: While it is true that the Jan Lokpal draft did not include the idea of reservation, it is consistent with laws surrounding all the other similar organizations like the CBI, CVC, CEC, CAG etc. Team Anna has said that they are in no way opposed to reservation and all their care about it is an open, transparent setup with the appropriate checks and balances. Using the reservation card is a crafty attempt to divide and conquer while diverting attention from the core issue.
4. It is inflexible: This is easily the most widely believed myth. While it is true that democracy is about compromise and dialogue, you can’t dub someone as being inflexible unless you sit down and negotiate with them. Also, for a negotiation to be fruitful both parties should know exactly what they want. While Team Anna has been crystal clear on its stance on the bill, the ruling party has no clear consensus as reinforced by its constant waffling on various issues as witnessed from the joint drafting committee, to its first version, to the parliamentary resolution, to the standing committee, to its latest version tabled in parliament. The media unfortunately has failed to hold the UPA government accountable on this issue and instead perpetuated this myth.
5. It does not represent the people: Firstly, such a claim has never made. In fact, it is the government that the gave Team Anna the legitimacy by forming a joint drafting committee. The long sustained campaign has continued to spread and gain its supporters and every show of strength has proven that an even larger cross-section of the people are increasingly with Team Anna.
6. Suo Motu powers for Lokpal is dangerous: At the surface, this might ring true. However, the fact remains that all other similar organizations like the CBI, CVC, IT department, to name a few have suo motu powers. So if this is cause for “chest beating” then perhaps its time to re-visit similar powers for other such organizations. In general, harmful effects of suo motu powers can be eliminated with the right checks and balances in the bill.
7. Let us first pass a preliminary version of the bill: Surprisingly, some among the educated class have started to believe in this myth. It is important to realize that a strong foundation for such a law is a must to begin with in order for it to be refined in the future. Secondly, here is no greater evidence than this long drawn out struggle for Lokpal bill to justify the need for us to get it right the first time.
8. Passing a bill will solve corruption: This is a popular myth cited by many opponents of the bill. Firstly, no one ever claimed that passing Lokpal bill will signal the end of corruption. It is only a law and not a magic wand! But the important thing to bear in mind is that the purpose of a strong law is to have a mechanism in place to punish the guilty and to simultaneously act as a deterrent for future acts of corruption. We have had so many scams that have been exposed in recent times and yet justice has not been served for the simple reason that there is no independent, empowered, investigative agency to get to the bottom of these cases.
9. Team Anna should run for elections before it can demand laws: It is incorrect to question the authority of any individual or group to challenge the government and campaign for a law because they are not democratically elected. Anyone and everyone in a democracy is free to protest peacefully.
10. Parliament is supreme: The anti-corruption movement has never claimed its legitimacy to make laws or questioned parliament's law-making authority. In fact, we should commend them for doing the hard work of drafting a law (after incorporating feedback via the Internet, through public consultations etc.) that our parliamentarians should ideally be doing themselves. Besides, they deserve all the credit for having started a national dialogue and discussion on the issue of corruption. While it is true that law-making is the responsibility of parliament, it is also undeniable that it draws it strength from the people, and hence the people are ultimately supreme.
PS: Sorry for harsh words on that certain political party, with the bottom of my heart, i want this party to be what it used to be in its glory days under the leadership of stalwarts like Gandhi, Patel, Lal Bahadur, Subhash and to a certain extent under Nehru and Indira, PV Narsimha also..
Vikash, I fully agree with most of your points expect maligning and greatness of RSS. It appears to me that no body has maligned the RSS, secondly dear brother it is not true picture of RSS as you have painted, Brother, niether it is difficult to be a member of RSS nor something great to be member, the fact is the few controlling families donot want to loose the position/control over the organisation, secondly Rss managements also wants blind followers, be on their call to jump into the situation (wrong/right), thirdly, you will agree that Rss is dominated by traditionally business class plus brahimans, as we all know what these community people are ? and how much patriots/sincere they are in the national and public interest, Also they are not less in all type of correptions, like congress, they also have no time for farmers ant jats. Brother, RSS people also have two set of teaths like other political parties. so we must not forget that all political parties/politicians including RSS, have some good points some bad. Look, had RSS been such a great organisation, our nation would have controlled the world and RSS in chair permanently. Yes, there is one difference with congress that congress was started by britishers in their interest, it worked in their interest even when they left and still working on their policies, where as Rss was started by Indians and atlist not worked for any foreign power, and so are our reagional parties.
It is not understood as to why we suspect other members as agents of some or other political party when they put up their points against or in favour of some toppic, it is also noticed that many times that many members, when they are cornered/they find no suitable point to counter others pints, they start pointing fingure towards such person which is not correct. It is also noticed that some of our brothers counter others posts/become personal, wether the views in the post are correct or not and wether such brother has some knowledge of the toppic or not, because such brother concern doesnot like the writer of the post. THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOUR ALWAYS SPOILS THE DISCUSS AND INTER RELATIONSHIP, thus, we all must avoide such behaviour/rections in future please. regards
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भाई जीत, आप जिसे कूल dude नै तो थोडा ठन्डे दिमाग से सोचना चाहिए I न्यू झूठी हाँ क्यों भरवावै सै I तिल देख, तिलां की धार देख I चुनाव तैं पहल्यां सोचांगे किसका बोट गेरणा सै I के बेरा भाई आपकी पार्टी का ए गेरणा पड़ ज्या I हम नै तो या गोल मटोल सी सुषमा जी भी इतनी ए आछी लागै सै जितनी 'आदरणीय' सोनिया जी I भाई तूं तो BJP के वोट तोडण लाग रह्या सै I पढ़ा लिख्या माणस हो के भी ठीक से समझ नहीं पाया I बिना देखे कूदी मारणा पढ़े लिखे माणस नै शोभा नहीं देता I आज तक मैंने कही भी किसी पार्टी विशेष के लिए वोट नहीं माँगा इस वेब साईट पर I किसी पार्टी विशेष या उसके दर्शन पर आलोचनात्मक टिप्पणियाँ करना तो प्रजातंत्र में सभी का मूलभूत अधिकार होता है I परन्तु आपके व्यव्हार में मैं काफी द्वन्द्व/विरोधाभास देख रहा हूँ की आप यह अधिकार स्वयं तो लेते हैं परन्तु दूसरों को देने में आपको काफी तकलीफ होती है I आप सोनिया और कांग्रेस को दी गई गालियों का लुत्फ़ तू यूं उठा लेते हैं जैसे सावन के महीने में गुलगुलों का, परन्तु अगर कोई भूले से भी आपकी महबूबा बीजेपी या आपके जाने जिगर राष्ट्रीय स्वयंसेवक संघ के क्रिया कलाप पर टिपण्णी कर बैठे तो फिर आपको और आपके कुछ प्रवासी मित्रों बड़ी तकलीफ होती है I यह अच्छी बात नहीं है ISir ji, it reflects from your posts that you've strong inclination towards Congress. Aap bhi maan jaao ye baat!
As for me, yeah I admire RSS but not a member of it. If it looks from my posts that I'm a RSS follower then you're mistaken .. however if you affiliate me to RSS, I won't mind.
वैसे आपके RSS के कार्यकर्ताओं की राष्ट्रयिता और सांस्कृतिक मूल्य भारत वर्ष की सीमाओं के बाहर होते ही अंतर- राष्ट्रीयता के रंग में रंग जाते हैं I पाश्चात्य संगीत की ऊंची बीट पर थिरकना, पब में बार बालाओं के हाथ से जाम पीना, ऊँट का मांस खाना आदि आदि I परन्तु जब जयपुर या बंगलौर में आते हैं तो उनको यही कल्चर ख़राब लगती है और भारतीय संस्कृति, राष्ट्रीयता और स्वदेशी की याद आती है I आपक को कुछ हास्स्यास्पद सा नहीं लगता ? शायद अवश्य लगता होगा
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vikasgulia
New member
VP Sir, thanks for the beautiful bouquet of questions, am lovin' it!! But i would have loved it MORE, had you put counter questions about the better half of my post which talked about the 10 myths about Lokpal Movement, because the topic of this thread is about Lokpal and NOT RSS.
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vikasgulia
New member
गोल मटोल भी आदरणीय हो सकते हैं VP सर, काया के कारण यह भेदभाव अच्छी बात नहीं है !! lOLZ
vikasgulia
New member
Unfortunately, the Defence minister of the day does not share your concern about foreign hand!!
http://articles.economictimes.india...news/30558892_1_anna-hazare-lokpal-bill-polls
"Antony, who is Defence Minister, ruled out the possibility of any foreign... Answering a query, Antony said he did not think any foreign power could ..."
VP Sir, thanks for the beautiful bouquet of questions, am lovin' it!! But i would have loved it MORE, had you put counter questions about the better half of my post which talked about the 10 myths about Lokpal Movement, because the topic of this thread is about Lokpal and NOT RSS.
Vikas, I haven't yet gone through the better half of your post due to time constraint. Will offer my comments shortly after having read it.
vikasgulia
New member
नहीं यारो! यह गलत बात है...एक दम रोळी:sorrow: कर रहे हो तम! जे बेचारे इलेक्शन लड़न की बात करे तो तम बोलो की पोलिटिकल अम्बिशन है , जे इलेक्शन की बात न करे तो तम बोलो हो की हिम्मत है तो इलेक्शन लड़ के आर हरा के दिखाओ!!
यहे गलत बात है..एक दम रोली हो रही है भाई..स्वाद कोणी आये!:livid:
Only thing we need to be vigilant about is that powers of lokpal are not diluted in all this din !!
Good. Fortunately, the foreign hand is not visible yet. Let us hope for Anna's good health and long life.
नहीं यारो! यह गलत बात है...एक दम रोळी:sorrow: कर रहे हो तम! जे बेचारे इलेक्शन लड़न की बात करे तो तम बोलो की पोलिटिकल अम्बिशन है , जे इलेक्शन की बात न करे तो तम बोलो हो की हिम्मत है तो इलेक्शन लड़ के आर हरा के दिखाओ!!
यहे गलत बात है..एक दम रोली हो रही है भाई..स्वाद कोणी आये!:livid:
Only thing we need to be vigilant about is that powers of lokpal are not diluted in all this din !!
In my opinion, they must divulge their future political roadmap/ideology and must come forward to fight election. As I have already quoted Stanley Baldwin earlier, "Power without responsibility has been privilege of the Harlot through the ages". This applies to this group in the present scenario.
vikasgulia
New member
I have a request that, to avoid digression, let's discuss the merits, demerits etc of the Lokpal Vs jan Lokpal Bill...!! For last an year or so, in media and everywhere else, the issue of corruption is being hijacked by digressions about Team Anna etc etc. There is a surreal attempt to hijack the real motto of jan lokpal movement and Jan Lokpal!!
Some of the anti-movement arguments are like this, one of my friend quipped:
"एक बार क्या हुआ कि में केजरीवाल के घर के पास से जा रहा था , कि उसका कुत्ता मुझे देख के भोंकने लगा!, दिल तो मेरा भी करया कि इसका जवाब पत्थर से दूं ! लेकिन एक आईडिया आया: और अगले दिन से मैंने जन लोकपाल का विरोध करना शुरू कर दिया . In lieu of assault by Kejriwal's dog, i assert that: The jan lokpal is against democracy and environmental peace, as it does not stop the dog from barking and thus allows noise pollution!! We should include anti-dog clause in lokpal to make it effective and drop CBI clause.!!!!:boxing: "
Some of the anti-movement arguments are like this, one of my friend quipped:
"एक बार क्या हुआ कि में केजरीवाल के घर के पास से जा रहा था , कि उसका कुत्ता मुझे देख के भोंकने लगा!, दिल तो मेरा भी करया कि इसका जवाब पत्थर से दूं ! लेकिन एक आईडिया आया: और अगले दिन से मैंने जन लोकपाल का विरोध करना शुरू कर दिया . In lieu of assault by Kejriwal's dog, i assert that: The jan lokpal is against democracy and environmental peace, as it does not stop the dog from barking and thus allows noise pollution!! We should include anti-dog clause in lokpal to make it effective and drop CBI clause.!!!!:boxing: "
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Lagta hai is "invisibility" me Jadugar Shankar ka hath hai sabhi jadugaron ko Anna aur uske movement se door rahne ki salah di jati hai warna......................
sabhi jadugaron ko Anna aur uske movement se door rahne ki salah di jati hai warna......................Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If Lok Pal will be controlling everything, then what is the need of an elected government?. Anna should welcome the present bill being debated in parliament and should extend his support to it. If it proves to be ineffective, he may restart his campaign. But, he must give a chance to it. Expecting 100% implementation of his demands by a democratically elected government is too much I think.
Yes, give a chance to a bill passed half-heartedly by the parliament (read govt.) and wait for another 50 years like the lokpal waited for 40 years and still counting.