Army chief Gen. VK Singh DOB dispute

S

sjakhars

Administrator
Staff member
Dispute over Army Chief Gen. VK Singh has been in the news for quite some time now. I just watched the below video which touches this issue a bit also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0qUVWaAhWk&feature=youtu.be

I do not know what is the truth behind the dispute and claims in the video about conspiracies but the video does give a good account of the happenings and facts. Defense people may be able to shed some light on it.
 
As per media reports, two dates of his birth are existing in his record since begganing, without going into the long story, why Govt and Army HQ COULDNOT TAKE ACTION TILL HE BECAME CHIEF, it is nothing but to adust Bikaram singh a sikh officer, unfortunately this is second incapable sikh officer who will occupy the chair due to Manmohan singh
 
Can the govt. go against supreme court verdict about date of birth issue? In one of it's decision, the supreme court said that in any dispute, DOB of the secondary school certificate will be valid. As per my knowledge, Gen. VK Singh's date of year as per secondary school certificate is 1951.
 
इतने साल कित जा रा था जनरल साब? ईब हगाया हो रा ़़़़़़़ कमजोर पक्ष है ़़़़़़कोनी बात बणै ़़़़़़
 
Dear All,

Greetings!

The controversy about the date of birth (DOB) of the present Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) arose because of many factors, some of which cannot be discussed on a public forum. This is the end result of a growing nexus between politicians – bureaucrats and senior defence officers of a particular ilk. This nexus decides as to who shall rise in the ranks and occupy which post. Every posting of a Brigadier and above has to have an approval of the Ministry of Defence, meaning politicians and bureaucrats. For all those who don’t know, even the promotions lists are vetted by the ministry.

It is a well known past time of senior officers (Major Generals and above) of the Indian Army to regularly keep a tab on the Army List. As to who will get what rank depends upon factors like age – rank – qualifications – annual confidential reports.

Let me give you an example. There are three officers of equal calibre and capabilitioes, namely Maj Generals A, B & C. Now say A is a JAT, B is a Brahmin and C is a Sikh. All three have everything in their favor and any one of them can rise to the rank of a General and be a COAS one day. Now this how the nexus works. Obviously A will be the first one to be sorted out. How? Well if A is an Infantry Officer he shall be posted to a place where his bosses are Sikhs / Brahmins. So his story will end. As to how it will happen is a long story. Now B & C are left and one of them will have to become COAS at a later date. Now comes something called ‘deep selection’. This deep selection was done musch before Gen JJ singh became COAS. A couple of good officers were sorted out in Maj Gen rank to ensure that Gen Deepak Kapoor becomes COAS at a later date. It was during Gen Kapoor’s time that it was planned how to create a confusion regarding the DOB of Gen VK Singh so that Gen Bikram Singh can become COAS one day. The MS Branch then headed by a Lt Gen was used to do so. Maj Gen VK Singh was told to accept his DOB as May 1951 by MS Branch if he was to take over as a Corps Commander. Anyone in his place would have done the same. He was again asked to give an undertaking when he was appointed as an Army Commander later. The people in power then abused the system and got away with it. Now the whole system would come together to make an example out of Gen VK Singh and call him all types of things. This is a very sad for all of us who donned the uniform with pride to serve the nation.

No one knows what course of action will Gen VK Singh take. My personal view is that he should leave it at that and retire in May 2012. Like US Army ZGeneral Mac Arthur said “Old soldiers never die, they just fade away”. Gen Singh should retire with grace and just fade away.

Best regards,

JS Malik
 
jagmohan said:
No one knows what course of action will Gen VK Singh take. My personal view is that he should leave it at that and retire in May 2012. Like US Army ZGeneral Mac Arthur said “Old soldiers never die, they just fade away”. Gen Singh should retire with grace and just fade away.
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Malik Sir, ye bhartiya mansikta hai ki yar thoda sa or mil jata to or badhiya rahta.. Lobh satyanash ki jad hai!
 
Gen VK Singh took part in the 71 action, He topped the Rangers course in Fort Benning, USA. Even in the movie Prahaar, he played himself in a cameo. Gen VK Singh has had a distinguished service record. Gen VK Singh had taken last 3 promotions using the same DOB. It is difficult to predict whether he continued on the old DOB inorder to avoid controversy at an early stage or whether he did as was the need of the hour. He tried using political connections in Aug 2011 where 35 MPs led by BSP MP Dhananjay singh called on our MMS defending the Gen's stand. MMS refused to accept the petition. Meanwhile, BSP MP got arrested in Dec for his role in a double murder case. The Gen. could have used non-political means to defend his case.

Defence min. Antony is maintaining silence on the issue & is maintaining the stance that Gen. has to step down in May 2012. For now, it seems more of a honour issue rather than tenure. The govt. could however take a milder stance & work out a compromise. The Present govt. has granted extensions to serving army chiefs in the past.
 
jagmohan said:
Dear All,

Greetings!

The controversy about the date of birth (DOB) of the present Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) arose because of many factors, some of which cannot be discussed on a public forum. This is the end result of a growing nexus between politicians – bureaucrats and senior defence officers of a particular ilk. This nexus decides as to who shall rise in the ranks and occupy which post. Every posting of a Brigadier and above has to have an approval of the Ministry of Defence, meaning politicians and bureaucrats. For all those who don’t know, even the promotions lists are vetted by the ministry.

It is a well known past time of senior officers (Major Generals and above) of the Indian Army to regularly keep a tab on the Army List. As to who will get what rank depends upon factors like age – rank – qualifications – annual confidential reports.

Let me give you an example. There are three officers of equal calibre and capabilitioes, namely Maj Generals A, B & C. Now say A is a JAT, B is a Brahmin and C is a Sikh. All three have everything in their favor and any one of them can rise to the rank of a General and be a COAS one day. Now this how the nexus works. Obviously A will be the first one to be sorted out. How? Well if A is an Infantry Officer he shall be posted to a place where his bosses are Sikhs / Brahmins. So his story will end. As to how it will happen is a long story. Now B & C are left and one of them will have to become COAS at a later date. Now comes something called ‘deep selection’. This deep selection was done musch before Gen JJ singh became COAS. A couple of good officers were sorted out in Maj Gen rank to ensure that Gen Deepak Kapoor becomes COAS at a later date. It was during Gen Kapoor’s time that it was planned how to create a confusion regarding the DOB of Gen VK Singh so that Gen Bikram Singh can become COAS one day. The MS Branch then headed by a Lt Gen was used to do so. Maj Gen VK Singh was told to accept his DOB as May 1951 by MS Branch if he was to take over as a Corps Commander. Anyone in his place would have done the same. He was again asked to give an undertaking when he was appointed as an Army Commander later. The people in power then abused the system and got away with it. Now the whole system would come together to make an example out of Gen VK Singh and call him all types of things. This is a very sad for all of us who donned the uniform with pride to serve the nation.

No one knows what course of action will Gen VK Singh take. My personal view is that he should leave it at that and retire in May 2012. Like US Army ZGeneral Mac Arthur said “Old soldiers never die, they just fade away”. Gen Singh should retire with grace and just fade away.

Best regards,

JS Malik
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Respected Friend,

Thanks for your enlightening post.

I would like to invite your attention to 'The Tribune' page 18 report dated January 11, 2012 on this issue in which the Army Chief himself has said: "It is a personal issue and I desist from making any public comment on it."

Hence, would it not be in the fitness of things that we desist further commenting on it.

Regards.
 
jagmohan said:
Dear All,

Greetings!

The controversy about the date of birth (DOB) of the present Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) arose because of many factors, some of which cannot be discussed on a public forum. This is the end result of a growing nexus between politicians – bureaucrats and senior defence officers of a particular ilk. This nexus decides as to who shall rise in the ranks and occupy which post. Every posting of a Brigadier and above has to have an approval of the Ministry of Defence, meaning politicians and bureaucrats. For all those who don’t know, even the promotions lists are vetted by the ministry.

It is a well known past time of senior officers (Major Generals and above) of the Indian Army to regularly keep a tab on the Army List. As to who will get what rank depends upon factors like age – rank – qualifications – annual confidential reports.

Let me give you an example. There are three officers of equal calibre and capabilitioes, namely Maj Generals A, B & C. Now say A is a JAT, B is a Brahmin and C is a Sikh. All three have everything in their favor and any one of them can rise to the rank of a General and be a COAS one day. Now this how the nexus works. Obviously A will be the first one to be sorted out. How? Well if A is an Infantry Officer he shall be posted to a place where his bosses are Sikhs / Brahmins. So his story will end. As to how it will happen is a long story. Now B & C are left and one of them will have to become COAS at a later date. Now comes something called ‘deep selection’. This deep selection was done musch before Gen JJ singh became COAS. A couple of good officers were sorted out in Maj Gen rank to ensure that Gen Deepak Kapoor becomes COAS at a later date. It was during Gen Kapoor’s time that it was planned how to create a confusion regarding the DOB of Gen VK Singh so that Gen Bikram Singh can become COAS one day. The MS Branch then headed by a Lt Gen was used to do so. Maj Gen VK Singh was told to accept his DOB as May 1951 by MS Branch if he was to take over as a Corps Commander. Anyone in his place would have done the same. He was again asked to give an undertaking when he was appointed as an Army Commander later. The people in power then abused the system and got away with it. Now the whole system would come together to make an example out of Gen VK Singh and call him all types of things. This is a very sad for all of us who donned the uniform with pride to serve the nation.

No one knows what course of action will Gen VK Singh take. My personal view is that he should leave it at that and retire in May 2012. Like US Army ZGeneral Mac Arthur said “Old soldiers never die, they just fade away”. Gen Singh should retire with grace and just fade away.

Best regards,

JS Malik
Click to expand...


Friend,

Excellent Post deserves our thanks.


General VK Singh has said on the issue: "It is a personal issue and I desist from making any public comment on it" (Report on page 18, The Tribune, dated 11 January, 2011).

Would it not be in the fitness of things that we also desist commenting on it.

Regards
 
jagmohan said:
Dear All,

Greetings!

The controversy about the date of birth (DOB) of the present Chief of the Army Staff (COAS) arose because of many factors, some of which cannot be discussed on a public forum. This is the end result of a growing nexus between politicians – bureaucrats and senior defence officers of a particular ilk. This nexus decides as to who shall rise in the ranks and occupy which post. Every posting of a Brigadier and above has to have an approval of the Ministry of Defence, meaning politicians and bureaucrats. For all those who don’t know, even the promotions lists are vetted by the ministry.

It is a well known past time of senior officers (Major Generals and above) of the Indian Army to regularly keep a tab on the Army List. As to who will get what rank depends upon factors like age – rank – qualifications – annual confidential reports.

Let me give you an example. There are three officers of equal calibre and capabilitioes, namely Maj Generals A, B & C. Now say A is a JAT, B is a Brahmin and C is a Sikh. All three have everything in their favor and any one of them can rise to the rank of a General and be a COAS one day. Now this how the nexus works. Obviously A will be the first one to be sorted out. How? Well if A is an Infantry Officer he shall be posted to a place where his bosses are Sikhs / Brahmins. So his story will end. As to how it will happen is a long story. Now B & C are left and one of them will have to become COAS at a later date. Now comes something called ‘deep selection’. This deep selection was done musch before Gen JJ singh became COAS. A couple of good officers were sorted out in Maj Gen rank to ensure that Gen Deepak Kapoor becomes COAS at a later date. It was during Gen Kapoor’s time that it was planned how to create a confusion regarding the DOB of Gen VK Singh so that Gen Bikram Singh can become COAS one day. The MS Branch then headed by a Lt Gen was used to do so. Maj Gen VK Singh was told to accept his DOB as May 1951 by MS Branch if he was to take over as a Corps Commander. Anyone in his place would have done the same. He was again asked to give an undertaking when he was appointed as an Army Commander later. The people in power then abused the system and got away with it. Now the whole system would come together to make an example out of Gen VK Singh and call him all types of things. This is a very sad for all of us who donned the uniform with pride to serve the nation.

No one knows what course of action will Gen VK Singh take. My personal view is that he should leave it at that and retire in May 2012. Like US Army ZGeneral Mac Arthur said “Old soldiers never die, they just fade away”. Gen Singh should retire with grace and just fade away.

Best regards,

JS Malik
Click to expand...

So it is more of an internal personal issue exploited by ministry and associated bureaucrats. Colonel Sahab it would interesting to learn that how this f*ck up effect moral of Officers and Jawans as whole.
 
Fateh said:
As per media reports, two dates of his birth are existing in his record since begganing, without going into the long story, why Govt and Army HQ COULDNOT TAKE ACTION TILL HE BECAME CHIEF, it is nothing but to adust Bikaram singh a sikh officer, unfortunately this is second incapable sikh officer who will occupy the chair due to Manmohan singh
Click to expand...

अच्छा समस्या या स तो ..
आपके हिसाब त अगला जर्नल सिक्ख की बजाय हिन्दू होना चाहिए |
मनमोहन सिंह कब त सिक्ख नेता बन गया ?
 
Fateh said:
unfortunately this is second incapable sikh officer who will occupy the chair due to Manmohan singh
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raka said:

आपके हिसाब त अगला जर्नल सिक्ख की बजाय हिन्दू होना चाहिए |
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Looking by your comment, i'm beggining to wonder how come this 'incapable sikh officer' rose beyond the rank of a colonel ???? then Brig> Maj Gen>Lt. General!!!
As till that point, promotions are only time bound. Thereafter merit & capability comes into play & offcourse influence too, in top ranks.

If this was so, one could doubt the SSB process, recruiting such 'incapable' officers. Right !!??

I understand exceptions are always there, but climbing the ladder, reaching among top brass rank could not be an incapable's cup of tea.
But yes selecting a COAS or commanders out of this chunk could be debatable n doubtful, influenced.

To conclude: We shouldn't be commenting on someone's capability or incapability. Just as per our whims & fancies.
 
Bias against Jat candidates and officers

Though slightly off track, I wanted to bring to light the bias that has creeped in not only the promotion of Jat Officers but also the selection of Jat candidates appearing for SSB.

In the recent past, many of my acquaintances who are otherwise all rounders in terms of academics, sports, curricular activities were not selected and other less capable candidates of other castes getting selected. Unfortunately, this bias and prejudice was already existing and deeply entrenched in the civil (govt. as well as pvt. sector), but has now made inroads into the esteemed defense services. We all know the fate of bright officers who are not able to make it to the top post because they are Jats.

Though Gen. Singh is a Rajput, he also almost faces the same bias, though to a lesser extent. At least, he became the chief!
 
जनरल वि.के.सिंह न्यू कहवे स अक जा मेरी बात ना मानी ते रिटार होण की बजाय इस्तीफा दे दयुन्गा | मेरा यु कहना स अक इस्सा बढ़िया माहोल स ,इतनी बड्डी फौज रही गेल्याँ ,आप क्यूँ अस्तिफा दयो सो ,इन् देशद्रोही कान्ग्रेसियाँ का ले ले इस्तीफा अर गेर जेल में | सच्चे अर्थों में जनरल बनो ,यानि विद्रोह करो | गेर ले आड़े इन् ने संसद के-ए सामी | ना ते जनरल साब कोए भरोषा ना स इन् कान्ग्रेसियाँ का कदे आप भी अफजल गुरु आली कोठडी में बेठे पाओ | बेरा ना के आरोप ला देंगे ये आप पे |
 
ravinderjeet said:
जनरल वि.के.सिंह न्यू कहवे स अक जा मेरी बात ना मानी ते रिटार होण की बजाय इस्तीफा दे दयुन्गा | मेरा यु कहना स अक इस्सा बढ़िया माहोल स ,इतनी बड्डी फौज रही गेल्याँ ,आप क्यूँ अस्तिफा दयो सो ,इन् देशद्रोही कान्ग्रेसियाँ का ले ले इस्तीफा अर गेर जेल में | सच्चे अर्थों में जनरल बनो ,यानि विद्रोह करो | गेर ले आड़े इन् ने संसद के-ए सामी | ना ते जनरल साब कोए भरोषा ना स इन् कान्ग्रेसियाँ का कदे आप भी अफजल गुरु आली कोठडी में बेठे पाओ | बेरा ना के आरोप ला देंगे ये आप पे |
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Moderators, kindly note that Ravinderjeet Balhara is suggesting mutiny in the country and topple a democratically elected government of the country. Earlier on too, he had posted material to support physical assault against Rahul Gandhi (an elected member of the Congress government). Kindly ban Ravinderjeet from this site for his grave unlawful action. thanks!
 
Fateh said:

Ravinderji, I was quite respectful to him, but he issued warning to me and you appreciated his post rather to advise him like me, why? do you have any answer for your different treatment to me, l understand such thing, I never tolrared such warnings in life, it is the word jat has kept me under control, and still I shall see as to how such warnings are met with, LOOK, best method of teaching is by self example, so ravinderjeetji, please learn, adopt and act on your views than automatically, others will follow you, YES i UNDERSTAND AND RESPECT YOUR FEELINGS, I shall be grateful to you if you or any brother can give details about ss goyat, because I want to reply his warning, enough is enough.

It is not understood as to how the post no 12 of mr ssgoyat which forced me to react was not removed and my both the posts have been taken out,

[/B]
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Respect Col Sir,

There is nothing in post#12 directed against you. I am sure you agree that everyone has a right to voice their opinion. You can argue that SS Goyat doesn't have the experience to make that comment - and you may be right. But surely you don't want to say that he can't even voice a contradictory opinion.

Also, I had read the "warning" post of his. Although it did hurt your sentiments, I don't think he meant it anymore than warning of reporting you to the moderators. While you are well within your rights to be angry with him on that account, it would be rather sad if the issue is escalated beyond the virtual world.

I don't wish to advise you - with your age and stature, I'd be exceeding my brief. I am just appealing you to see the facts in their true light.

Regards
 
urmiladuhan said:
Moderators, kindly note that Ravinderjeet Balhara is suggesting mutiny in the country and topple a democratically elected government of the country. Earlier on too, he had posted material to support physical assault against Rahul Gandhi (an elected member of the Congress government). Kindly ban Ravinderjeet from this site for his grave unlawful action. thanks!
Click to expand...

If country needs a mutiny, then so be it (though i doubt our country is yet at those crossroads). Why to stop that? Simply put, it's a rhetoric against government apathy. Thus is just meant to lobby people against an inefficient establishment. Nothing wrong in that!! Anna ne bhi to Bola ki Azaadi ki dusari ladai? What happened when he was put in jail?? If Ravinder goes aboveboard in giving voice to popular sentiment, then it should not be taken on face value.

Why we are stuck on rhetoric? Issue is larger?? Issue is that Rahul Gandhi represents a demagogic and unpopuplar government and he can't simply get away with it. He deserves brickbats. Being in Public life he should not shy away from it.
 
kapdal said:
Respect Col Sir,

There is nothing in post#12 directed against you. I am sure you agree that everyone has a right to voice their opinion. You can argue that SS Goyat doesn't have the experience to make that comment - and you may be right. But surely you don't want to say that he can't even voice a contradictory opinion.

Also, I had read the "warning" post of his. Although it did hurt your sentiments, I don't think he meant it anymore than warning of reporting you to the moderators. While you are well within your rights to be angry with him on that account, it would be rather sad if the issue is escalated beyond the virtual world.

I don't wish to advise you - with your age and stature, I'd be exceeding my brief. I am just appealing you to see the facts in their true light.

Regards
Click to expand...

Kapil, thanks for bothering about me , but dear, when mr ssgoyat knew that I donot want his reaction because of his indiscipline behaviour, why he wrote by quoting my post, the toppic of discussion was DOB OF PRESENT CAOS, my remark on incapability of vikaram for the post of CAOS, WAS JUST A SIMPLE REMARK SINCE I KNOW THIS MAN, what was the requirement of going so far as lower ranks and even ssb, all this shows very clearly his intention, I have noticed earlier also, he play mischieve and hide hiself under the bed, niether think proper to reply, nor appologize. put others into hot discussion, heart burning or bad relations and he ejoys cat fight, that why I want to see this person/his parents and reply/reward him for his misbehaviour. Brother, I had read his post twice where he has clearly challenged me warned me so let us see how he keeps his words, No doubt, I am an old man but firstly a jat and a sholdier, I have tolrated enough now it is a fight against goon/improper behaviour and injustice at jatland, by issuing warning to me he has crossed all barriars of decence and gentileman behaviour and at any cost, such goons must be taught lession properly, please pardone me for talking straight, brother he has hurt me seriously, I understand that at my level this kind of reaction by me is not correct but his continuing misbehaviour is forcing me to go little far, I am sorry for that. regards

Kapil, please see the post of MR Ravinder, is it not personal, is not insulting, what has been done by moderators, does the same rule applicable to his post or not,I think rule should be applicable to all, all should be treated alike, why the management of jat land is keeping quite now.
 
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