केजरीवाल एंड पार्टी

[abhikrana]

Jan Lokpal draft was prepared after incorporating suggestions from countless people from across the nation. And the draft is not the final document. It would be fine-tuned further according the demands of the system.

You do not have an alternative to Arvind Kejriwal. So, as per you the people should keep tolerating these present rascals. That's the way to go!!

What to prove now. You are behaving like Arvind Kezriwal. You are not bending a inch and being inflexible. By all means this Janlokpal is dangerous to the system and country. We live in democratic country and we should respect democracy. My way of Highway never work in democratic country. No sane person would ever advise a stupid solution which will never and nowhere worked without considering the Systematic reforms.

 

[vicky84]

I am not saying tolerate these rascals. But it is good to consider all point of views. In my opinion you should be open to suggestion and listen to them. Amendments are must in current JanLokpal otherwise we will realize later(But that realization will come after huge loss).

Jan Lokpal draft was prepared after incorporating suggestions from countless people from across the nation. And the draft is not the final document. It would be fine-tuned further according the demands of the system.

You do not have an alternative to Arvind Kejriwal. So, as per you the people should keep tolerating these present rascals. That's the way to go!!

 

[abhikrana]

I agree with you that amendments have to be made as per the demands of the situation and am sure they would be made once it is implemented and the need for the amendments arises.

I am not saying tolerate these rascals. But it is good to consider all point of views. In my opinion you should be open to suggestion and listen to them. Amendments are must in current JanLokpal otherwise we will realize later(But that realization will come after huge loss).

 

[vicky84]

I still feel that there is no point in adding another layer of Mamoth Bureaucracy. I feel, make changes to existing investigating agencies and get rid of all loopholes. I don't think we need to waste huge tax payers money unnecessarily when things can be done within in the ambit of current system. I feel corruption can only be eliminated when you make system transparent, simple and straight.

A lot of corruption can simply be removed by making our system simple. Technology can help in to a great extent. I believe in simple saying: Prevention is better than cure. I don't want to waste my energy and resources to chase criminals after letting them crime. Rather I don't let them do the crime. I think people are living in a fool's paradise if they think that JanLokpal will eradicate corruption. It does not work like that.

I agree with you that amendments have to be made as per the demands of the situation and am sure they would be made once it is implemented and the need for the amendments arises.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Niyat theek ho to sabh kuchh theek ho sakata hai.

Corruption rokane ke liye pahle bhi to bahut sare qanoon hain.

 

[arvindc]

"RTI has been used extensively by general public ever since it was introduced. This has certainly brought more transparency to the system."
Absolutely in agreement , however RTI was not launched over night --rather an effort of years .
Also it was not launched via launching some political party and so called anshans .
Agar RTI---bina kissi drama , anshans , n media attention ke launch hua -----toh why not other reforms . Its just tab how can someone would fulfill ambition of being in politics .


I read somewhere about same long time back when RTI was launched , coz I was curious aise kaise Govt jag gayee , tab read contribution of Aruna Roy n others for RTI. Nothing much I have found in support of my statement , I guess below mentioned link might support what I have said-

http://www.rtigateway.org.in/Documents/References/English/Reports/12.%20An%20article%20on%20RTI%20by%20Harsh%20Mander.pdf

This link says, Mr. Kejriwal grew disillusioned by the scale of corruption and quietly got involved in the nationwide effort by civil society groups that resulted in the Right to Information, the 2005 law that established a public right to access official records and documents. He had taken a formal leave from the tax bureau in 2000 and would earn international recognition after founding Parivartan, a nonprofit group focused on government transparency and accountability.

Doesn't this makes Mr. Kejriwal a better judge to decide on the methods of achieving the goal?

Finding a fault is many times easier than the rectification. A person who him/her self can not formulate a better method, shouldn't at least disgrace the attempts by others.

 

[abhikrana]

According to you the system should be transparent, simple and straight within the ambit of the current system.

The big question is WHO IS GOING TO DO THAT? The same rascals who have so far destroyed the system?

You keep mentioning about the system but who is going to improve it if not Arvind? Please suggest.

I still feel that there is no point in adding another layer of Mamoth Bureaucracy. I feel, make changes to existing investigating agencies and get rid of all loopholes. I don't think we need to waste huge tax payers money unnecessarily when things can be done within in the ambit of current system. I feel corruption can only be eliminated when you make system transparent, simple and straight.

A lot of corruption can simply be removed by making our system simple. Technology can help in to a great extent. I believe in simple saying: Prevention is better than cure. I don't want to waste my energy and resources to chase criminals after letting them crime. Rather I don't let them do the crime. I think people are living in a fool's paradise if they think that JanLokpal will eradicate corruption. It does not work like that.

 

[arvindc]

Niyat theek ho to sabh kuchh theek ho sakata hai.

Corruption rokane ke liye pahle bhi to bahut sare qanoon hain.

A correction:

"Corruption rokane ke liye pahle bhi to bahut sare ​nakaam qanoon hain."

 

[abhikrana]

Mr. Kejriwal is doing a good job and we all know that in our hearts. Yet, there are always going to be naysayers who would try to find one thing or the other wrong. As someone has rightly said you cannot keep all the people happy all the time.

Mr. Kejriwal will continue with his good work irrespective of unnecessary, irrational and unfounded criticism of his efforts by some vested interests.

Indian public has been cheated by the current breed of politicians (rascals and thugs and mainly among them the Congressies), but no longer now!!

This link says, Mr. Kejriwal grew disillusioned by the scale of corruption and quietly got involved in the nationwide effort by civil society groups that resulted in the Right to Information, the 2005 law that established a public right to access official records and documents. He had taken a formal leave from the tax bureau in 2000 and would earn international recognition after founding Parivartan, a nonprofit group focused on government transparency and accountability.

Doesn't this makes Mr. Kejriwal a better judge to decide on the methods of achieving the goal?

Finding a fault is many times easier than the rectification. A person who him/her self can not formulate a better method, shouldn't at least disgrace the attempts by others.

 

[desijat]

This link says, Mr. Kejriwal grew disillusioned by the scale of corruption and quietly got involved in the nationwide effort by civil society groups that resulted in the Right to Information, the 2005 law that established a public right to access official records and documents. He had taken a formal leave from the tax bureau in 2000 and would earn international recognition after founding Parivartan, a nonprofit group focused on government transparency and accountability.

The dues of the same leave were paid back to govt after courts intervention, he did not serve his due time as per contract after the leave, does not that make him a cheater, mistrustful and exploiter of system?

 

[arvindc]

The dues of the same leave were paid back to govt after courts intervention, he did not serve his due time as per contract after the leave, does not that make him a cheater, mistrustful and exploiter of system?

Nope. Haven't you heard? To err is human.

Is one instance enough for putting all these labels on him? Think again.
He is not and was not is the habit of doing that.

 

[desijat]

There are more instances, please go through the entire thread.

Nope. Haven't you heard? To err is human.

Is one instance enough for putting all these labels on him? Think again.
He is not and was not is the habit of doing that.

 

[subhashmahla]

Mr. Kejriwal says he wants to clean up Indian politics. In that case, the broom might work as a symbol of cleanliness. Although some regional parties have used it in previous elections, it’s still up for grabs. Given Mr. Kejriwal is media-savvy, he will want to take into account the fact that, if he does well, the symbol will make Indian headline writers’ jobs easier (“Clean Sweep for Kejriwal,” “Kejriwal Sweeps Away His Rivals,” etc.) But does the broom adequately convey the combative style of Mr. Kejriwal?

 

[vicky84]

Perhaps a communist flag or a symbol of Nazism(Swastika) endorsed by Adolf Hitler would suit well to Kezriwal Party!!

But does the broom adequately convey the combative style of Mr. Kejriwal?

 

[vicky84]

Well at least not Kezriwal. That's for sure. A lot of people have suggested him right things but he does not listen. Even current government has taken some realistic measures to curb the corruption which is much better than Kezriwal Solution. As far as alternate is concerned, I think there are many peoplewoking quietly for a political infrastructure change. Jay Parkash Narayan(Former IAS Officer), brain behind RTI and founder of LokSatta Party is working hard for political, bureaucratic reforms, systematic reforms. His party has won 1 seat in Andhra Assembly election. Other person is Deepak Mittal(Businessman from Haryana). He is also working hard to bring required and realistic reforms. Last but not least, Sanjeev Sabhlok(Former IAS Officer). He is also working hard towards cleaning up the mess. Right now he is recruiting people who can bring change to current system. There may be more. But a left leaner like Arvind Kezriwal will not prove any good for country if he keeps on enforcing his ideology like a dictator.

You keep mentioning about the system but who is going to improve it if not Arvind? Please suggest.

 

[vicky84]

Would like to bring to your attention. A Pragmatic way of curbing corruption. The Article published yesterday on "The Hindu".

Make the laws realistic to go after corruption


India does not need a revolution or other radical measures to subdue the monster of corruption. Even marginal changes to the existing laws can unleash lasting improvements to governance.

The recent expose of massive corruption in government has made people wonder whether crookedness is a typical Indian trait. The national mood is sullen, cynical and despondent. Are Indians are incorrigibly venal? Is dishonesty embedded in our DNA? Are our brains wired to corruption?
The all-pervasive despair is unwarranted. India is not destined to live with corruption. Indian politicians, businessmen and bureaucrats are only as honest or crooked as their counterparts across the world, including the West.

Why then is corruption rampant in India? The hullabaloo over the recent scams has diverted public attention from the causes of corruption. Let us examine one of the little talked about causes — the complexity of our laws.
Law-making is still being held hostage to the colonial mindset of command and control. Indian laws are typically known for their complexity, obtuseness and ambiguity. Lack of clarity and transparency makes our laws fertile breeding grounds for corruption because the bureaucracy has arrogated to itself the powers to interpret laws at their discretion.

It will not be an exaggeration to say that it is virtually impossible to be entirely honest to survive in business or access services from the government. We enact tough laws which everybody knows are difficult to observe in letter and in spirit.

Anybody setting up a new business or factory has to comply with a plethora of statutory requirements. It is not argued here that regulations are bad. But the rules should not be so unrealistically stringent as to make compliance impossible. It appears that the purpose of regulation is not to enforce responsible behaviour among people and protect society but to provide an avenue for corrupt officials to make easy money. It seems that strict laws are made not be observed but to be paid lip service with the connivance of corrupt officials. For instance, many cracker units are allowed to function in unsafe conditions. There is no dearth of laws to regulate these units. But who cares whether these units comply with the laws so long as money changes hands.
The statute book is littered with obsolete laws which have outlived their utility. They are allowed to continue only as a source of corruption. Road contractors have to bid at low rates because the official rates are not periodically revised in accordance with inflation. The contractor tries to make a profit by tampering with the quality and quantity of materials. All these are done with the connivance of officials.


Sometimes, absence of any law helps corrupt politicians enrich themselves at the expense of the exchequer. The absence of a transparent policy for allocating spectrum and coal blocks led to a massive loss of revenue for the government.
Drafting of laws often involves subterfuge. For instance, people with criminal backgrounds are able to contest elections and enter legislative bodies because the law states that they must have been convicted to be prevented from entering the fray. This provision has been deliberately inserted with the knowledge that criminal trials normally take a decade or two to be completed. The ostensible justification for this ridiculous law is that frivolous litigation could be used to prevent politicians from contesting. The law could have stated that any criminal case pending for more than say six years would trigger disqualification.

Our State governments continue with the old paper-based administration, leading to opaqueness in the functioning of departments. The success of the passenger reservation system of the Railways is testimony to the fact that electronic interface between the public and the government is a sure recipe for reducing corruption.

All routine decisions except those relating to national security should be put on websites on a real-time basis. A shift to total e-governance is long overdue.

India does not need a revolution or other radical measures to subdue the monster of corruption. Even marginal changes to the existing laws can catalyse and unleash lasting improvements to governance. The numerous reports of the Law Commission and the Administrative Reforms Commission gathering dust in the corridors of power should be retrieved, re-examined and their well-intentioned recommendations implemented.
The challenge before the people is how to make the political class realise that the old order must change yielding place to the new.

Mr. Kejriwal will continue with his good work irrespective of unnecessary, irrational and unfounded criticism of his efforts by some vested interests.

 

[vpannu]

Jay Parkash Narayan(Former IAS Officer), brain behind RTI and founder of LokSatta Party

bhai Atish, इस जय परकाश का जिक्र तन्ने पहले भी करा था की RTI लाने में इसका बहोत बड़ा योगदान था । नेट पे ढूँढने पर कहीं कोई जानकारी मिली नहीं इसके योगदान की । केजरीवाल को जरूर मग्सेसे अवार्ड मिला था इसके लिए । (Pardon me for being ignorant but I'd love to read/know about his contributions.)

Last but not least, Sanjeev Sabhlok(Former IAS Officer). He is also working hard towards cleaning up the mess. Right now he is recruiting people who can bring change to current system. There may be more. But a left leaner like Arvind Kezriwal will not prove any good for country if he keeps on enforcing his ideology like a dictator.

Sabhlok तो भाई ऑस्ट्रेलिया में बैठा है सेटल हो के । IAS जरूर था , पर इस्तीफा दे के विदेश में आ लिया । और फिलहाल विक्टोरिया गवर्नमेंट में काम करे है । http://au.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok । इतना ही क्रांति या देश में परिवर्तन करने का शौक होता तो खुद यहाँ बैठ के चैन की रोटिय नहीं तोड़ रहा होता । I don't mean to belittle anyone's contributions towards the anti-corruption drive but there is definitely a lot of difference in being a facebook/keyboard warrior and fighting the battle in the field itself.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

bhai Atish, इस जय परकाश का जिक्र तन्ने पहले भी करा था की RTI लाने में इसका बहोत बड़ा योगदान था । नेट पे ढूँढने पर कहीं कोई जानकारी मिली नहीं इसके योगदान की । केजरीवाल को जरूर मग्सेसे अवार्ड मिला था इसके लिए । (Pardon me for being ignorant but I'd love to read/know about his contributions.)Sabhlok तो भाई ऑस्ट्रेलिया में बैठा है सेटल हो के । IAS जरूर था , पर इस्तीफा दे के विदेश में आ लिया । और फिलहाल विक्टोरिया गवर्नमेंट में काम करे है । http://au.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok । इतना ही क्रांति या देश में परिवर्तन करने का शौक होता तो खुद यहाँ बैठ के चैन की रोटिय नहीं तोड़ रहा होता । I don't mean to belittle anyone's contributions towards the anti-corruption drive but there is definitely a lot of difference in being a facebook/keyboard warrior and fighting the battle in the field itself.

You are right.

It is easy for Arm chair thinkers of 'change' sitting in air conditioned bungalows to sell their ideas than to act in field for their implementation.

 

[abhikrana]

Well, Atish if according to you the present Congress govt. of looters and thugs is better than Arvind Kejriwal, I don't think I have anything more to discuss with you!!

Godspeed to Arvind Kejriwal!

Well at least not Kezriwal. That's for sure. A lot of people have suggested him right things but he does not listen. Even current government has taken some realistic measures to curb the corruption which is much better than Kezriwal Solution. As far as alternate is concerned, I think there are many peoplewoking quietly for a political infrastructure change. Jay Parkash Narayan(Former IAS Officer), brain behind RTI and founder of LokSatta Party is working hard for political, bureaucratic reforms, systematic reforms. His party has won 1 seat in Andhra Assembly election. Other person is Deepak Mittal(Businessman from Haryana). He is also working hard to bring required and realistic reforms. Last but not least, Sanjeev Sabhlok(Former IAS Officer). He is also working hard towards cleaning up the mess. Right now he is recruiting people who can bring change to current system. There may be more. But a left leaner like Arvind Kezriwal will not prove any good for country if he keeps on enforcing his ideology like a dictator.

 

[vicky84]

bhai Atish, इस जय परकाश का जिक्र तन्ने पहले भी करा था की RTI लाने में इसका बहोत बड़ा योगदान था । नेट पे ढूँढने पर कहीं कोई जानकारी मिली नहीं इसके योगदान की । केजरीवाल को जरूर मग्सेसे अवार्ड मिला था इसके लिए । (Pardon me for being ignorant but I'd love to read/know about his contributions.)

This keh sai Pannu,, Ek Kezriwal nai a laa rakhi sai RTI,,

Jay Prakash Naryana was the member of Second Administrative Reform Commission. RTI was drafted by him and few others. Not only RTI, but also read about other initiatives.

http://darpg.nic.in/darpgwebsite_cms/Document/file/ccadmin12.pdf

http://arc.gov.in/rtifinalreport.pdf

Sabhlok तो भाई ऑस्ट्रेलिया में बैठा है सेटल हो के । IAS जरूर था , पर इस्तीफा दे के विदेश में आ लिया । और फिलहाल विक्टोरिया गवर्नमेंट में काम करे है । http://au.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok । इतना ही क्रांति या देश में परिवर्तन करने का शौक होता तो खुद यहाँ बैठ के चैन की रोटिय नहीं तोड़ रहा होता । I don't mean to belittle anyone's contributions towards the anti-corruption drive but there is definitely a lot of difference in being a facebook/keyboard warrior and fighting the battle in the field itself.

I agree with you to some extent that its better to work in India rather than sitting abroad. He tried to do so, way back in 1998,1999. But did not get enough support. Not everyone become successful. But at least his policies make sense and are realistic whereas JanLokpal is highly flawed. No expert would endorse such a crap system which will backfire and hurt badly. No Economist would suggest such a crap system to tackle with corruption. If it was that easy, Indonesia would have been a corruption free country by now. It does not work like that. I don't think any shortcut methods like Lokpal would ever work in what we want and expect. I am not against Kezriwal but I am against his policies. You won't find any law expert or an economist supporting Kezriwal's Lokpal as it is. It needs a lot of change. As I said earlier as well. We don't need it at all. To some extent what Kezriwal has proposed can be incorporated into current agencies. But still there is no need to add another layer of huge bureaucracy!