Would Kezriwal's socialist policies put a brake on Indian Economy?

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vicky84

New member
Friends,

After reading about Arvind Kezriwal's and Prashant Bhusan's policies, I come to know that they are pro socialist.

It was no surprise as their Janlokpal bill derives from same ideology(I also don't like their leftish and my way or highway type attitude).

Aam Aadmi Party vouch for strong socialist policies.

Aam Aadmi Party criticize privatisation and liberalisation of Government business.

According to Prashant Bhusan, his party would like to give priority to public sector over private sector.

Excerpt from The Hindu:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/states...licy-says-prashant-bhushan/article4108084.ece

"He made it clear that mines and minerals, oil and natural gas, land, spectrum and other natural resources would be vested with the public sector. Airports and power would be nationalised, Mr. Bhushan said and alleged that the Union Cabinet was “a puppet of crony capitalism.”

Their argument behind all this is that pre liberalisation, we did not see so many scams.

But since we have made reforms in 1990's and allowed private sector participation, we are seeing so many scams.

My question to fellow members, do you think liberalisation is the main cause of corruption?

Do you agree with Aam Aadmi Party's socialist view?

Your views please.


 
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We have seen how socialism collapsed in USSR. On contrary we have countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark where socialism worked.

But will socialism work for India?

We had democratic socialism in India but did it work? It did not work and waned slowly after liberalisation in 1990's. But Arvind Kezriwal argument is that liberalisation is responsible for crony capitalism? Do you agree with that argument?
 
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But will socialism work for India?

Never , biggest reason is huge population . May be that is why it failed in USSR n success in denmark , sweden n norway
 
rekhasmriti said:
But will socialism work for India?

Never , biggest reason is huge population . May be that is why it failed in USSR n success in denmark , sweden n norway
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I read little about why socialism worked in Sweden. Countries like Sweden are not hard core socialist. They allowed private contribution and competition. Not like Nehru era where everything was controlled by the government. Which resulted in a poor economy.
 
atishmohan said:
Further read on socialist policies of Kezriwal. Why Arvind Kezriwal is a hard core socialist?


http://sabhlokcity.com/2013/02/conclusive-evidence-that-arvind-kejriwal-is-a-hard-core-socialist-2/
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Atish,

I had a quick glance on this link. I am not sure the author himself understands perfectly. Sample this:

"After this post, let no one ever come to me saying that Arvind is not socialist, or that he is somehow intellectually "asexual" – neither this nor that. Somewhere in between. EVERYONE in the world is either socialist (collectivist) or capitalist (focused on the individual). No one is dead in the centre [totally "neutral"]."

I don't think everyone in the world is either a socialist or a capitalist. Just because these are the two popular discourses and are linked to the cold war factions, it doesn't mean those are the only choices.

Socialism doesn't mean state totalitarianism like in USSR just like capitalism doesn't mean individual liberty. China is showing us how you can be capitalist while still being authoritarian. There is a whole lot of concepts that get mixed - socialism, capitalism, communism, free markets, totalitarianism, welfare state, public sector ownership, privatization, liberalization, left, right, etc.

I don't think capitalism per se is good in itself. What is good is free markets, where everyone has a free and fair opportunity to work or do business. In India we have crony capitalism. Capitalism just means private ownership of assets. For arguments sake, let's say 10 business houses divide the entire India between themselves - they own all assets. Everyone else works for them. What will be so good about it - they will be the new Maharajas.

I am fine with socialism that provides equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome. I am not fine with socialism that makes an individual a slave of the state (ex-communist countries). I am also not fine with a capitalism that means that system is captured and abused by a few elites (Indian style capitalism). Much of the capitalist west is more socialist than India with universal free education, healthcare, even housing (like in UK). That is just a welfare state (Nordic countries like Sweden being a great example).

Coming to AAP, their diagnosis seems to be correct that India has crony capitalism. But their medicine doesn't seem to be right as public sector ownership will only pass back power to the sarkari babudom. There is no excuse for corruption, but a corrupt system that still moves forward is better than a system that doesn't move at all. The easiest way to not make mistakes is to do nothing. Corruption seemed to be lesser before liberalization as not much was happening anyways. They need to grasp this point.
 
You are absolutely right Atish... All are talking masters...Now it is better to be in opposition, he can talk all big words. If he has responsibility to govern.. he has to take decisions.. then one has to work with responsibility. The mantra of successful Socialism is a balance in approach between Society and development. The Society also has to play an important role in national building... Can we adopt “China Model”.....
Here we all want full subsidy whether needed or not... we don’t want to pay the taxes, therefore we like all slogans “dont pay bills... etc”. We are master in justifying our wrong doing with comparing others..... I WANT ALL BY ANY MEAN.. attitude.... I strongly feel our bottleneck is we “too much democracy” ..... "AAP" like groups are "new brake statems" being development, introduced and promoted by vasted interests....
 
kapdal said:
Atish,

I had a quick glance on this link. I am not sure the author himself understands perfectly. Sample this:

"After this post, let no one ever come to me saying that Arvind is not socialist, or that he is somehow intellectually "asexual" – neither this nor that. Somewhere in between. EVERYONE in the world is either socialist (collectivist) or capitalist (focused on the individual). No one is dead in the centre [totally "neutral"]."
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Good pick. But he suggest in one of this book that it can be a mixed of these two. He also advocates free markets.
 
I think its just a ploy to appeal to the middle class and build on his agenda of exposing 'corruption'. Fine, but socialism is very hard to put into practice. The post-90s economic liberalization is irreversible. Our economy has become so interlinked with the global economy that any attempt to de-link it will cause havoc. Imagine, what would happen if AAP comes to power (I know hard to imagine :)) and reverses disinvestment decisions. Foreign investors will take flight along with their capital and we are hardly self sufficient to do without them. And mind you, along with foreign capital comes know-how, technology and skills for the workforce. We saw what happened when GoI tries to extract a retrospective tax from the Vodafone merger and cancelled 2G licenses. It became a political issue with UK, Russian (Systema) and Norwegian (Telenor) govts. getting involved.
 
swaich said:
I think its just a ploy to appeal to the middle class and build on his agenda of exposing 'corruption'. Fine, but socialism is very hard to put into practice. The post-90s economic liberalization is irreversible. Our economy has become so interlinked with the global economy that any attempt to de-link it will cause havoc. Imagine, what would happen if AAP comes to power (I know hard to imagine :)) and reverses disinvestment decisions. Foreign investors will take flight along with their capital and we are hardly self sufficient to do without them. And mind you, along with foreign capital comes know-how, technology and skills for the workforce. We saw what happened when GoI tries to extract a retrospective tax from the Vodafone merger and cancelled 2G licenses. It became a political issue with UK, Russian (Systema) and Norwegian (Telenor) govts. getting involved.
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I agree with you Swiach. People get swayed by Kezriwal's expose on corruption but very few pay a heed to what Kezriwal has to offer. Bringing Kezriwal into power means taking country back Licence Raj! I hope people would realize that such socialist thinking is not what country require.
 
Not really surprised at your post Atish, Kejriwal has been often blamed to be hardcore self-centered leader who thinks he himself is the only honest man. Anyone with that kind of mindset would like to bring every possible venture, private or public under his control.

The problem with India even beyond population is the disparity of money and of course black money. Even if Kejriwal comes to power( ;) ;) Jokes on me) he will not be able to implement anything he has proposed, be it decentralization of power or getting rid of privatization.
 
@Vikas

I do not have any problem with Kezriwal's approach of exposing corruption. He has every right to expose corruption.Though his approach might fizzle out. But there is a serious issue with the solution he is providing. He is projecting Nehru era better than post liberalisation era. There is no rationale behind his argument. Instead of talking about rectifying issues in current system, he is proposing a nightmarish bureaucracy! Country is already sufferring from unnecessary bureaucracy. But instead of cutting public service, he is proposing more public service which will put break on country's growth. His lokpal is another nightmare and true example of excessive bureaucracy!
 
atishmohan said:
I do not have any problem with Kezriwal's approach of exposing corruption.
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Exposing corruption is not bad but the way he does it is wrong. Allow me to compare him with Subramaniyam Swamy, I do not agree with Swamy's intentions and one sided expose' but I surely appreciate the way he handles his crusade against corruption 'only' by Congress. His drags his side of debate in the court of law and mostly uses media to only speak on court's proceedings. At times his claims stand tall(2G), at times they fall flat(Involvement of PC) but he does it the right way.

Where-as Kejriwal believes in the policy of hit and run, for him the only trial worth exploring is media trial where in anyone he accuses of corruption should be ruled guilty immediately in the court of media by the emotional democracy. Another issue, like you mentioned is his alternative to solutions. He has never run a govt before but surely is educated enough to understand what goes behind running a country and this surprises me even more. He acts like a literate illiterate on policies and mostly speaks of impractical solutions.
 
desijat said:
Exposing corruption is not bad but the way he does it is wrong. Allow me to compare him with Subramaniyam Swamy, I do not agree with Swamy's intentions and one sided expose' but I surely appreciate the way he handles his crusade against corruption 'only' by Congress. His drags his side of debate in the court of law and mostly uses media to only speak on court's proceedings. At times his claims stand tall(2G), at times they fall flat(Involvement of PC) but he does it the right way.

Where-as Kejriwal believes in the policy of hit and run, for him the only trial worth exploring is media trial where in anyone he accuses of corruption should be ruled guilty immediately in the court of media by the emotional democracy. Another issue, like you mentioned is his alternative to solutions. He has never run a govt before but surely is educated enough to understand what goes behind running a country and this surprises me even more. He acts like a literate illiterate on policies and mostly speaks of impractical solutions.
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Well said Vikas. I also agree with your last point that Kezriwal seems to be either ignorant about policies or he did not get it right. The other thing I have noticed is that he is not receptive. He is not open to suggestion or recommendation. Lot of people have left him because of this attitude. My way or highway type attitude never works! His aide Prashant Bhusan seems to know a lot about law but has no idea about economy. Their socialist policies are more dangerous than the current system. As Kapil summed it well "a corrupt system that still moves forward is better than a system that doesn't move at all"
 
This thread title made me smile a bit. Not that it is funny but it runs high on assumption and presumption. To execute one's policy one need to be in power completely and when Congress and BJP both are finding it difficult to form a legitimate govt. alone,dude, it is light years away for AAP. At the one hand we all are equivocal unanimously over rampant corruption,uneducated politicians,undeserving leaders but at the same time we become over-critical when someone is trying a shot.That appears stupid if not moronic.

AAP is naive and so does its policies and ways. I think its the beauty of democracy to ve various checks in the system and in multi party system of ours, formation of such a political party is also a check on other major and regional parties. How effective would that be, its hard to predict but its good to crib and ve a non-corrupt front than to have none such establishment and cribbing a lot.

There is one such party arising at micro level in Hyderabad. Lok Satta Party. Those guys are mostly highly educated abroad and have a zeal to work for people and country. Dr JP the sole MLA of this party appears a thoughtful and impressive man.

There are various Youtube Hangouts of Kejriwal about his AAP. I am sharing each video of Dr JP and Kejriwal speaking.
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Bhai yeh Pure "Nakli" hai Maan Jaon, He is a "B" team of congress :)
How much this man is serious about people rights and corruption just watch this Video. Jo aadmi apni Vote dale bina shehar chor kar bhaag raha ho , ussey aap kaisey ummed karogey? How can man Like Kejriwal is not aware whether his name is not in voting list?
UP polls: When Team Anna member Arvind Kejriwal was reminded to vote
http://www.ndtv.com/article/assembl...r-arvind-kejriwal-was-reminded-to-vote-180645
 
Samarkadian said:
At the one hand we all are equivocal unanimously over rampant corruption,uneducated politicians,undeserving leaders but at the same time we become over-critical when someone is trying a shot.That appears stupid if not moronic.

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Samar,

I am not being over-critical. I am trying to analyse the solution AAP is offering. Country already sufferred a lot from too much government regulation. If we promote it again, what would be the impact on country's economy?

For example, Industries like manufacturing could not survive because of excessive bureaucracy in place. Whereas IT survived because it did not suffer from excessive bureaucracy! Point is do we really want such system? Do we want to promote another left type front in the country like we have in West Bengal.
 
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