drrajpalsingh
New member
Friend,
What was the original group [ANI evolved outside India and ASI evolved in India] of the first migrants from Africa and when did their migration to India happen?
Thanks
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions
- Thread starter drrajpalsingh
- Start date
Friend,
What was the original group [ANI evolved outside India and ASI evolved in India] of the first migrants from Africa and when did their migration to India happen?
Thanks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogy_of_Rama#Descendants_of_RamaGood information Friend.
It would be better if you could cite proper reference of the Purana which states this event of fight between Abhimanyu and Brihadbala and also the identification of the person if he really belonged to the line of Kusha's successors or any other person with the identical name.
Secondly, if this assumption is accepted as true, this will create another sort of chronological juxtaposition !
The Ramayana or Rama's period is traditionally associated with Treta and the Mbt period as Dwapar. This means there was just a gap of less than 700 yrs* between these two yugas. The Kaliyuga which is said to have began after MBT leaves a meager span of time in between Treta and Kaliyuga.
[*The calculation is based on the assumption that each succeeding generation of Kusha is given an average of 25 years. hence 27x25=675].
Kindly share your views on this aspect of ancient traditions of India as contained in literary sources as available today.
Thanks
They were ancestors of ANI and ASI.Friend,
What was the original group [ANI evolved outside India and ASI evolved in India] of the first migrants from Africa and when did their migration to India happen?
Thanks
btw, another article : http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/g...ics-of-genetic-history-in-india/#.UQ6oEB3rwy4
Ranbir Tomar said:Mahabharata mein ek yodha tha Brihadbala. Isko Arjun ke ladke Abhimanyu ne paraast kiya tha. Brihadbala Ramayan ke Ram ke parivar mein janma tha. Puranon ke anusaar Kush aur Brihadbala mein 27 pidiyon ka antar tha.
Isse to yahi pratit hota hai ki Ramayan Mahabharata se pehle hui thi.
DrRajpalSingh said:Good information Friend.
It would be better if you could cite proper reference of the Purana which states this event of fight between Abhimanyu and Brihadbala and also the identification of the person if he really belonged to the line of Kusha's successors or any other person with the identical name.
Secondly, if this assumption is accepted as true, this will create another sort of chronological juxtaposition !
The Ramayana or Rama's period is traditionally associated with Treta and the Mbt period as Dwapar. This means there was just a gap of less than 700 yrs* between these two yugas. The Kaliyuga which is said to have began after MBT leaves a meager span of time in between Treta and Kaliyuga.
[*The calculation is based on the assumption that each succeeding generation of Kusha is given an average of 25 years. hence 27x25=675].
Kindly share your views on this aspect of ancient traditions of India as contained in literary sources as available today.
Thanks
Very helpful. Isse kai baatein prakat huin hain.
Puran ke anusar, Ikshvaku se Sudas mein 50 peedhi ka antar hai. aur Sudas se Ram mein 11 peedhi ka antar hai, kul mila ke 61 peedhi. Agar Valmiki Ramayan ko sahi mana jaye toh bhi Ikshvaku aur Ram mein 31 peedhi ka antar hai. (Kya yeh Rig Ved wala Sudas hai jisne 10 raja yudh mein jeet prapt ki thi?)
Aur phir, agar Vishnu puran ko sahi mana jaye to isse pratit hota hai ki Kush aur Abhimanyu mein 30 peedhiyon ka antar tha.
Aur phir anth mein poora peedhi-kram is prakar se aata hai -
Puran ke anusar, 91 peedhi tak ka antar hai, Ikshvaku se Abhimanyu tak,
Valmiki Ramayan aur Puran ko mila ke yehi antar 61 peedhi ka aata hai.
Isse sahi tithi nakalne me bahut sahayta milegi.
Inke alawa ek aur pramukh naam ujagar huha hain:
Brihadbala se Sakya mein 24 peedhi ka antar hai aur. Kya ye wohi Sakya hai jiska naam baad mein Gautam Buddh ke saath aata hai
Is peedhi kram ki aur jaanch honi chaahiye, lekin mere liye abhi yehi bahut hai.
Last edited:
drrajpalsingh
New member
Very helpful. Isse kai baatein prakat huin hain.
Puran ke anusar, Ikshvaku se Sudas mein 50 peedhi ka antar hai. aur Sudas se Ram mein 11 peedhi ka antar hai, kul mila ke 61 peedhi. Agar Valmiki Ramayan ko sahi mana jaye toh bhi Ikshvaku aur Ram mein 31 peedhi ka antar hai. (Kya yeh Rig Ved wala Sudas hai jisne 10 raja yudh mein jeet prapt ki thi?)
Aur phir, agar Vishnu puran ko sahi mana jaye to isse pratit hota hai ki Kush aur Abhimanyu mein 30 peedhiyon ka antar tha.
Aur phir anth mein poora peedhi-kram is prakar se aata hai -
Puran ke anusar, 91 peedhi tak ka antar hai, Ikshvaku se Abhimanyu tak,
Valmiki Ramayan aur Puran ko mila ke yehi antar 61 peedhi ka aata hai.
Isse sahi tithi nakalne me bahut sahayta milegi.
Inke alawa ek aur pramukh naam ujagar huha hain:
Brihadbala se Sakya mein 24 peedhi ka antar hai aur. Kya ye wohi Sakya hai jiska naam baad mein Gautam Buddh ke saath aata hai
Is peedhi kram ki aur jaanch honi chaahiye, lekin mere liye abhi yehi bahut hai.
Perhaps we are proceeding by and by towards right direction, Friends. Let us first prepare an authentic dynasty chart of Suryavamsis and Chandravamsis to get a comparative clearer picture ready to be authenticated by other sources.
Puranas are many. Out of these to which Purana do you refer here in this post, please quote !
Then we will have to use other tools of research used to determine Chronology.
I think that Vishnupuran has clear genealogy details.Perhaps we are proceeding by and by towards right direction, Friends. Let us first prepare an authentic dynasty chart of Suryavamsis and Chandravamsis to get a comparative clearer picture ready to be authenticated by other sources.
Puranas are many. Out of these to which Purana do you refer here in this post, please quote !
Then we will have to use other tools of research used to determine Chronology.
drrajpalsingh
New member
I think that Vishnupuran has clear genealogy details.
Friend,
There is difference of several number of dynasties between the Suryavamsi and Chndravamsi dynasties, in spite of the fact that traditionally it is accepted that both the dynasties started at the same time. This is a puzzling issue to solve that dynasties mentioned in other Puranas/sources have to be reconciled.
Some British authors, H W Wilson et all, had done work in that direction but, [perhaps they had not taken into account the epics for this purpose] their efforts are not acceptable to all.
Thanks
Hence need of fresh attempt for comparative study of the Puranas and other ancient literature !
drrajpalsingh
New member
According to traditional view, the Ramayana belongs to the Treta Yuga and Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga.
However, this view is not accepted by the modern historians.
According to them, the Epic period comes after the Vedic period and before the Buddhist period.
In other words, the epics belong to the same age as that of the Sutras.
Comments of the readers of the post are invited.
Thanks and regards,
However, this view is not accepted by the modern historians.
According to them, the Epic period comes after the Vedic period and before the Buddhist period.
In other words, the epics belong to the same age as that of the Sutras.
Comments of the readers of the post are invited.
Thanks and regards,
Mera maan na yeh hai ki dwapar, treta yug itiyadi bahut ache se samjhe nahin gaye hain. In yugon mein kitne saal the iske baare me jyada pareshan nahin hona chaiye. Isi prakar pidiyon mein bhi antar milta hai. Ek raaja se dusre raaja ke beech mein kitni pidiyan thi yeh alag alag kitabon mein samaan nahi hai. Sab kitabon (Ved, Itihas, Puran aadi) mein karam jaroor samaan hai. Artharth Ram pehle hue yah Arjun yeh baat sab kitabon me samaan hai. Unke beech ki pidiyan alag ho sakti hain per in dono rajaon ka karam (kaun kis se pehle hua) ek barabar hai. Is jankari se yeh nishkarsh nikalta hai ki Ved sabse pehle likhe gaye, itihas uske baad hua. Jaisa Naveen Rao ne likha hai kya Vedon me paye jaane wale Sudas aur Puranon me likhe hue Sudas ek hi vyakti hain?According to traditional view, the Ramayana belongs to the Treta Yuga and Mahabharata belongs to the Dvapar Yuga.
However, this view is not accepted by the modern historians.
According to them, the Epic period comes after the Vedic period and before the Buddhist period.
In other words, the epics belong to the same age as that of the Sutras.
Comments of the readers of the post are invited.
Thanks and regards,
drrajpalsingh
New member
Mera maan na yeh hai ki dwapar, treta yug itiyadi bahut ache se samjhe nahin gaye hain. In yugon mein kitne saal the iske baare me jyada pareshan nahin hona chaiye. Isi prakar pidiyon mein bhi antar milta hai. Ek raaja se dusre raaja ke beech mein kitni pidiyan thi yeh alag alag kitabon mein samaan nahi hai. Sab kitabon (Ved, Itihas, Puran aadi) mein karam jaroor samaan hai. Artharth Ram pehle hue yah Arjun yeh baat sab kitabon me samaan hai. Unke beech ki pidiyan alag ho sakti hain per in dono rajaon ka karam (kaun kis se pehle hua) ek barabar hai. Is jankari se yeh nishkarsh nikalta hai ki Ved sabse pehle likhe gaye, itihas uske baad hua. Jaisa Naveen Rao ne likha hai kya Vedon me paye jaane wale Sudas aur Puranon me likhe hue Sudas ek hi vyakti hain?
Dost,
Sudas ke bare mein aapki study kya kahati hai.
Apka manana hai ki Arjun se Ram pahale hone ki baat sabhi kitobon mein likhi hai.
Kripaya sambhnathit kitabon ka sandarbh dene ka kast kijiyaga;
Humein yah janana bhi ruchikar rahega ki Rama ka purani dynastic list [Suryavamshi] mein kaun sa sthan mana jata hai.
Arjuna/Yudhistra ka purani vamshawali mein kya sthan hai ?
Agar in donon swalon ke santoshjanak jawab mil jate hain to dynastic history ki mahatavpuran guthi ko suljhane mein madad mil sakati hai.
Dhanyavad.
drrajpalsingh
New member
The Vishnu Purana describes that the ''City of Indra is situated on the eastern side of the Manasottara mountain;
that of the Yama on the Southern face;
that of the Varuna on the West; and
that of Soma on the north; named severally Vassokasara, Samyamani, Mukhya, and Vibhavari."
[Note6 p.179: Further, in the Linga Purana the city of Indra is called Amaravati; and in it and the Vayu that of Varuna is termed Sukha.]
----------for further details see, H W Wilson, Tr. of The chapter, Book II, VIII Vishnu Purana, People and the places, 179.
If these places could be identified properly with the four ruling dynasties names of the yore mentioned against them, perhaps it could solve the mystry of their old abode and then more facts would come to light enabling us to understand the chronology and history of those times.
that of the Yama on the Southern face;
that of the Varuna on the West; and
that of Soma on the north; named severally Vassokasara, Samyamani, Mukhya, and Vibhavari."
[Note6 p.179: Further, in the Linga Purana the city of Indra is called Amaravati; and in it and the Vayu that of Varuna is termed Sukha.]
----------for further details see, H W Wilson, Tr. of The chapter, Book II, VIII Vishnu Purana, People and the places, 179.
If these places could be identified properly with the four ruling dynasties names of the yore mentioned against them, perhaps it could solve the mystry of their old abode and then more facts would come to light enabling us to understand the chronology and history of those times.
drrajpalsingh
New member
According to A.C. Das, the original home of Aryans was the Sapt-Sindhu or the Punjab. To quote him, the Sapat-Sindhu was irrigated by seven rivers viz the Indus, Jhelum, Chenab, Ravi, Beas, Satluj and Sarswati. "The original cradle of the Aryans was, therefore, Sapt-Sindhu which included the beautiful valley of Kashmir on the North and Gandhara on the West. Its southern boundary was Rajputana [then it was not desert] and its eastern boundary covered the Gangetic trough. It was completely cut off from Southern India by sea, but it was covered by land with Western Asia in the direction of Gandhara and Kabulisatan '''through which waves after waves of Arya migration advanced to the west and to Europe'''." ------------Reference : A.C. Das, Rig Vedic India.
But this theory had not been taken very seriously by the scholars when it was propounded in the last century.
But this theory had not been taken very seriously by the scholars when it was propounded in the last century.
I think that early Vedic culture developed in Sapt-Sindhu region, Aryan might have came from elsewhere but it was the place where Rig-Vedic culture flourished.According to A.C. Das, the original home of Aryans was the Sapt-Sindhu or the Punjab. To quote him, the Sapat-Sindhu was irrigated by seven rivers viz the Indus, Jhelum, Chenab, Ravi, Beas, Satluj and Sarswati. "The original cradle of the Aryans was, therefore, Sapt-Sindhu which included the beautiful valley of Kashmir on the North and Gandhara on the West. Its southern boundary was Rajputana [then it was not desert] and its eastern boundary covered the Gangetic trough. It was completely cut off from Southern India by sea, but it was covered by land with Western Asia in the direction of Gandhara and Kabulisatan '''through which waves after waves of Arya migration advanced to the west and to Europe'''." ------------Reference : A.C. Das, Rig Vedic India.
But this theory had not been taken very seriously by the scholars when it was propounded in the last century.
Ironically, sapt-Sindhu region and Jat regions still coincide.
drrajpalsingh
New member
Swami Dayanand Sarswati propunded the theory that the original home of the Aryans was Tibet.
---Reference, Swami Dayanand Sarswati, Satyarath Prakash.
The view expounded by Swamiji found support from Pargiter.
---Reference, F.E. Pargiter, Ancient Indian Historical Tradition, 1922.
---Reference, Swami Dayanand Sarswati, Satyarath Prakash.
The view expounded by Swamiji found support from Pargiter.
---Reference, F.E. Pargiter, Ancient Indian Historical Tradition, 1922.
drrajpalsingh
New member
I think that early Vedic culture developed in Sapt-Sindhu region, Aryan might have came from elsewhere but it was the place where Rig-Vedic culture flourished.
Ironically, sapt-Sindhu region and Jat regions still coincide.
The question is what was the cradle of the Aryans; not the place where Rig Vedic Culture flourished later on or not !!
Parantu Rigved se pehle jab koi kitaab likhi hi nahin gayi to Rigved ke elawa pramaan kahan se milega?The question is what was the cradle of the Aryans; not the place where Rig Vedic Culture flourished later on or not !!
Agar Rigved ke mandal 7, Sukta 5 ke Chathe mantra ko dekhen to isma likha hai ki aryon ne dasyu ko desh nikala de diya. Gor talab baat yeh hai ki Dasyu ko Irani arya log arya hi maante hai parantu bharat ke arya in dasyu ko arya nahin maante.
Sawal yeh uth tha hai ki desh nikala diya to bharatiya aryon ka desh kya tha? Iran to ho nahi sakta kyonki wahan dasyu log arya maane gaye aur daghestan desh iran ke uttar me unhi ke naam se basa hai.
Doosri baat yadi aap Rigved ke Mandal 7 , Sukta 9 ke chathe mantra ko dekhen to isme likha hai ki Vashishta ne Jaruutha ko jala diya. Jarutha iraniyon ke bhagwan jarathushtra ka hi naam pratit hota hai. Isse bhi yahi jahir hota hai ki irani logon ko bharat se nikala gaya.
Rigved me Ikhsvaku raja ka varnan milta hai jo ki Ram ke purvaj thhe. Isse to yahi jahir hota hai ki Rigved Ramayan se pehle likha gaya.
What was time of Jarathushtra ?Romar said:Doosri baat yadi aap Rigved ke Mandal 7 , Sukta 9 ke chathe mantra ko dekhen to isme likha hai ki Vashishta ne Jaruutha ko jala diya. Jarutha iraniyon ke bhagwan jarathushtra ka hi naam pratit hota hai. Isse bhi yahi jahir hota hai ki irani logon ko bharat se nikala gaya.
drrajpalsingh
New member
Parantu Rigved se pehle jab koi kitaab likhi hi nahin gayi to Rigved ke elawa pramaan kahan se milega?
.......................................
Dost,
Aap ke adhyana ke anusar Rigveda ki Rachana kab hui?
Kya aapka manana hai ki Rigveda ki rachana se pahle koi Aryans ka ghar baar nahin tha
aur Rigveda ki Rachna ke saath hi Arya achanak pragat ho gaye.
Baat itani sadharan nahin hai, literary sources ke atirikat bhi aneka suchana srot hote hain,
Jinka itihas lekhan me mahatavpuran sarot ke rup mein prayog karke itihas ki sanrachana kee jaati hai.
Mere vichar se Aryans ko swadeshi ya videshi mool ke sidha karane ke liya katibadh log Vedic Aryans ka yah kathan Bhool gaye lagate hain ki,
VASHUDHEVA KUTUMBAKAM;
Agar hum prvagraha chhod kar khule man se etihasik samgri ka mulyankan karne ke liya
tayar tayar nahin hain to kabhi bhi is prashn ka uttar nahin dundh sakte.
Ekmattar samadhan yahi ho sakta hai ki pruratatvik samgri aur literary traditions ka
tulanatamak prikshan kiya jawe aur jo tathya ubhar kar aate hain unhe mana jawe.
Kya hum aisa manane ke liye tayar hai, Pahale is baat ka faisala karana hoga !!
[Koi ek srota ko lekar sarvamanaya niskrash nikalane ki hathdharmita humein chhodani padegi]
Dhanyavaad
What was time of Jarathushtra ?
Agar Rigved vaastav me jarathustra ka varnan karta hai to inka kaal Rigved ka ki kaal hona chaiye.