Haryana and West UP

bajwajatt said:
yes punjabi suba was a non-issue in 60s and even today its not a issue for sikh masses.....
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There is no Punjabi Suba movement today. Are you referring to the Khalistan movement? I think most people realize its mostly a far fetched of Sikhs residing in the West.

I was born two decades after the issue, so my information is based on secondary sources. But I am surprised to know that a movement that had the support of most of the Sikh leadership, if not all, didnt have support of the masses.
 
swaich said:
Are we saying the Akali leaders demanding Punjabi Suba did not have the support of the masses?
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If we take the wider connotation of the word 'masses' comprising all sections and segments of society of the then Punjab, the answer is YES.

From 1955 to 1965, the reorganisation of the then Punjab remained a hot demand of Sikh leadership {SGPC/SAD} first led by Master Tara Singh, whose demand was 'Sikh Majority suba' and was opposed by Chief Minister, S. P S Kairon, and PM Pt. Jawahar Lal Nehru as 'communal demand' .

But, later on, when Mr. Nehru, Mr.Kairon and Master Tara Singh were not at the helm of affairs and leaders spear-heading the demand of the Punjabi Suba like SGPC President Sant Fateh Singh turned the longstanding demand of reorganisation of Punjab into linguistic based reorganisation {not a Sikhs' demand] succeeded to get the support of the Hindi Speaking area leaders [of modern Haryana state] also in full measure. And thus it assumed the shape of the demand of majority support if not of the Masses of the Punjab.

This move convinced the then leadership of the Central Government about the desirability to concede their demand to create a peaceful atmosphere in the region by agreeing to reorganise Punjab and thus Punjab was reorganised into three states and Chandigarh UT; Kangra district merged with HP, Hindi Speaking Haryana and Punjabi speaking Punjab on 1st November 1966.
 
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DrRajpalSingh said:
If we take the wider connotation of the word 'masses' comprising all sections and segments of society of the then Punjab, the answer is YES.

From 1955 to 1965, the reorganisation of the then Punjab remained a hot demand of Sikh leadership {SGPC/SAD} first led by Master Tara Singh, whose demand was 'Sikh Majority suba' and was opposed by Chief Minister, S. P S Kairon, and PM Pt. Jawahar Lal Nehru as 'communal demand' .

But the later on, when Mr. Nehru, Mr.Kairon and Master Tara Singh were not at the helm of affairs and leaders spear-heading the demand of the Punjabi Suba like SGPC President Sant Fateh Singh turned the longstanding demand of reorganisation of Punjab into linguistic based reorganisation {not a Sikhs' demand] succeeded to get the support of the Hindi Speaking area leaders [of modern Haryana state] also in full measure. And thus it assumed the shape of the demand of majority support if not of the Masses of the Punjab.

This move convinced the then leadership of the Central Government about the desirability to concede their demand to create a peaceful atmosphere in the region by agreeing to reorganise Punjab and thus Punjab was reorganised into three states and Chandigarh UT; Kangra district merged with HP, Hindi Speaking Haryana and Punjabi speaking Punjab on 1st November 1966.
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Rajpal ji, if I understood your post accurately, the Punjabi Suba demand started out as a demand for a Sikh majority state, but to widen its appeal it was later converted into a linguistic demand i.e. the Punjabi Suba.

Could you please share links, resources to support this point of yours?

I ask since I understood it to be the other way round. When the states were reorganized in the 1950s on a linguistic basis, there was a demand for a Punjabi Suba as a state for the speakers of Punjabi. This was on line with the other states that came into existence during that time. It was later when the differences were deepened and political games were played out between the Akalis on one side and Congress and Lala Jagat Narain on another that religious differences crept in, and the off shoots of the Suba movement gave birth to drastic demands such as separatism.
 
swaich said:
Rajpal ji, if I understood your post accurately, the Punjabi Suba demand started out as a demand for a Sikh majority state, but to widen its appeal it was later converted into a linguistic demand i.e. the Punjabi Suba.

Could you please share links, resources to support this point of yours?

I ask since I understood it to be the other way round. When the states were reorganized in the 1950s on a linguistic basis, there was a demand for a Punjabi Suba as a state for the speakers of Punjabi. This was on line with the other states that came into existence during that time. It was later when the differences were deepened and political games were played out between the Akalis on one side and Congress and Lala Jagat Narain on another that religious differences crept in, and the off shoots of the Suba movement gave birth to drastic demands such as separatism.
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Friend,

Whatever little I know about the issue, I am putting down as bare outline which could stimulate one to take deeper insight into the issue under discussion by studying original mass of literature.

To understand the genesis of the problem, we have to go to Pre-Independence period. When Muslim League raised the issue of separate State, the Congress and all other political parties opposed it including the SGPC leadership of the day.

But when the boundary commission was appointed for demarcation of the new State of Pakistan based on Muslim Majority region, Master Tara Singh initially threatened to oppose the partition of India and, later on, he, along with other leaders of the Sikh community put forward demand of a Sikh Home Land. But the Boundary commission found itself in helpless position to concede this demand as no Sikh Majority area except one Tehsil in pre partition India was found to meet the majority area for 'Sikh Home Land.'

After Partition the demographic structure of the East Punjab changed drastically as majority of the Sikhs who came over from the newly founded Pakistan region settled here and with the merger of the PEPSU, the now Punjab State region became Sikh Majority area.

When Reorganisation Commission for States on Linguistic Basis was appointed, the claims and counter claims of Hindi Speaking and Punjabi speaking people were examined and were rejected in view of the strategic importance of the region in view of persistently looming danger of attack of Pakistan.[ It was also rejected in case of division of the then Bombay State into Gujarati and Marathi speaking state, too.]

However, merger of SAD into Congress kept the demand in cold storage for some time and later tussle for capturing SGPC by some Sikh leaders belonging to or blessed by the Congress, antagonized Master Tara Singh, who was indisputed leader of the Sikhs at that time. The SAD was revived and the demand for separate Sikh Majority state was revived. The organisation of the two regional committees for Hindi Speaking and Punjabi Speaking regions under Sachar Committee formula also could not satisfy people of either region.

The rest of the outline of the details have been given in the earlier post by me.

For further studies, a few books are listed below :

Khushwant Singh, The History of the Sikhs, Vol. II.
Dr. Gopal Singh, History of the Sikh People.
Dr. Raj Pal singh, Sikhs-Their Journey of Five hundred Years.

After studying any of the above mentioned books, original sources could be consulted to make one's own point of view on the very interesting but intricate issue.

Thanks
 
What I'm Trying To Say is at majority of sikhs dont consider creation of punjabi suba as any great achivement of akalis
swaich said:
There is no Punjabi Suba movement today. Are you referring to the Khalistan movement? I think most people realize its mostly a far fetched of Sikhs residing in the West.

I was born two decades after the issue, so my information is based on secondary sources. But I am surprised to know that a movement that had the support of most of the Sikh leadership, if not all, didnt have support of the masses.
Click to expand...
 
Baghpat-Shamli aur Sonipat-Shamli me rishtedari normal h, Baraut-Shamli area me har gaam me 1-2 rishtedari Rohtak-Jind ki bhi mil jayegi, Jabki Bijnaur-Bulandshahar ki rishtedari mushkil se milti h........
 
View attachment 17844 Mughal time me Haryana naam se koi subah(state) nahi tha, west up bhi 2 state me divide tha, brij area Agra subah me padta tha, jabki Meerut area Delhi subah me tha , punjab naam ka bhi koi state nahi tha, punjab ka sarhind area Delhi subah me padta tha, jabki baki Subah-e-Lahore me tha, British logo ne 1857 ke baad inko apne hisab se divide kiya, Delhi sube ke Meerut area ko Awadh aur Agra sube me jod diya, Maujuda Haryan ko North Western Proviance ke sath joda, jisko baad me 1878 ke aaspas Punjab me jod diya.......
View attachment 17845 maujuda UP me Mughal time k 4 state mile hue, Agra+Delhi+Awadh+Allahbad, isko naam diya gya tha United Province of Agra and Awadh. Ye Meerut area ko diya gya punishment tha, khaskar "Desh"(Baraut area) ko bilkul alag thalag kar diya gya tha..........
Gandhi ne bhi Punjab ko divide karke Meerut/Ambala/Rohtak ko milakar alag state banane ki baat ki thi, jisko sir chhoturam ji ne oppose kiya tha.........
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