Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions

rkumar said:
There is an interesting book on the subject. The title is "Primitive Traditional History; The Primitive History and Chronology of India" written by JF Hewitt. This gentleman was the commissioner of Chota Nagpur. I would request the members to please read this book to initiate any further meaningful discussion on the subject. I have a digital copy of the book. Please let me know who all want this book. Let us give a pause to this thread till you have read the book. I wonder if there is a way to download the book here on Jatland website. Those who want the book, please quote your email id.
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Good suggestion!
 
nrao said:
Yasht 10.67 mein toh yeh likha hai:

67. 'We sacrifice unto Mithra, the lord of wide pastures, .... sleepless, and ever awake;
'Who drives along on his high-wheeled chariot, made of a heavenly substance, from the Karshvare [keshwar] of Arezahi to the Karshvare of Xwaniratha, the bright one; accompanied by the wheel of sovereignty, the Glory made by Mazda, and the Victory made by Ahura;

isme toh koi bhi nadi ka naam nahin hai, yahan tak ki paani tak ka varnan nahin hai aur naa hi koi Hetumant ya phir Haraxvathi jaise sthan ka.
http://www.avesta.org/ka/yt10sbe.htm

It also appears that both Hetumant or Haraxvathi are names of land and should not be confused with river.

I think Mr Ravi Chaudhary has put a nice series of posts on this issue, we can start with the first one:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/7654
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Yast 19.67

67. It runs unto him, it flows and swells unto him, bringing good pastures and fine horses, bringing plenty, full of glory; with beauty and weal; powerful and friendly, rich of pastures, prolific and golden. It runs unto him, it flows and swells unto him, bright and glorious, making the white .... grow, smiting away all plagues.


Person who uploaded his article on web took no.9 for 0 any way we can carry on our discussion on a seprate thread as suggested by members.
 
Romar said:
Hadh ho gai bhai. Ek professor aur doosra uska bhi tau katai dhuppal pe dhuppal pelne ki koshish kar rahe hain. Kya in logon ko sach dikhai nahi de raha?
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Do you understand that serious nature of allegations have been imputed by you. Withdraw it at the earliest so that all feel relieved of the false charge of relations between the brother participants in the discussion.

Please do not cross limits of decency by posting venomous posts instead of coming out with arguments and counter arguments, kindly note none has given you permit to abuse others by using derogatory remarks like this.

This post must kindly be taken note of by the Moderator and Editor of the thread, Mr. Ravi Chaudhary.
 
Dr. Singh

I have already advised that I will not be moderating any thread where I have participated on .

Please see:

post # 593


http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...History-Newer-discussions&p=334508#post334508

open Quote:

" There is a reason I have stopped participating on this and similar threads

If I was to put my moderator hat on, I would have stopped this discussion quite some time ago.

It is not contributing to the objectives of the Jat- History section of this site

When this section started, and I had some little hand in it, the objectives were to

1) Collect information on Jat history
2) Create a venue where community could be educated in their history
3) Develop a coherent History of our people.
4) Educate our people
5) Have some fun doing it.


We have made some progress.

The History of our people is there more in the absence, than is evident in the writing in the conventional History text books.

However, anyone with a little education, will have come to the logical conclusion, that simply copying and pasting quotes from writers, who lived a century or so ago, who had no idea of the Jat history or culture, could not bring a coherent picture forward.

The posts for a few months, are of the ‘ copy and paste’ variety.

They do not add to our knowledge.

If I was to put my moderator hat on, I would ban these posts.

If some one makes a quote/' copy paste ', they should also write their OWN opinion, and reasons for making the quote, and showing why it is relevant.



If the poster does not have an opinion, some critical thoughts, they should not make the “ copy and paste “ post.

In simpler words, if you do not have anything that adds to our knowledge, do not post

This is quite separate from the posts of people who are new, and simply unaware and uninformed about History in general or about the History of our people in particular.

These posts we welcome. The more participation we get the better. That is what this site/ section is for.

What I would like to see stop, is the mindless ‘ copy and paste’ posts, and the endless circular justifications, of ‘ so and so said’, therefore it must be true.

Feedback please?

What would members like to see?

Ravi Chaudhary [end quote]

Those frustrated by the situation/tactics should not allow themselves to react.


Ravi Chaudhary
 
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narenderkharb said:
Yast 19.67

67. It runs unto him, it flows and swells unto him, bringing good pastures and fine horses, bringing plenty, full of glory; with beauty and weal; powerful and friendly, rich of pastures, prolific and golden. It runs unto him, it flows and swells unto him, bright and glorious, making the white .... grow, smiting away all plagues.


Person who uploaded his article on web took no.9 for 0 any way we can carry on our discussion on a seprate thread as suggested by members.
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Chaliye to yeh bhi bata dijiye ki kahan likha hai ki yeh Saraswati nadi hai.

Aap bahut der se baat gol gol ghuma rahein hain.
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Do you understand that serious nature of allegations have been imputed by you. Withdraw it at the earliest so that all feel relieved of the false charge of relations between the brother participants in the discussion.

Please do not cross limits of decency by posting venomous posts instead of coming out with arguments and counter arguments, kindly note none has given you permit to abuse others by using derogatory remarks like this.
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Aap ki samajh mein nahi aa raha hai ki aap Bharat ke mool stotro ka kitna apmaan kar rahe hain. Itna hi nahi Iran ke Avesta mein se bhi aap tod maror ke jhoot tathya pesh kar rahe hain. Aap ko kisne adhikar diya hai jhoot bolne ka?

Kahan avesta mein Saraswati nadi ka varnan hai?

Kahan avesta mein divodas ka janam Iran mein likha hai?

Jab divodas ka janam iran mein likha nahin to aap roj aan Roy ko kaise sach maan rahe hain?
 
Romar said:
Aap ki samajh mein nahi aa raha hai ki aap Bharat ke mool stotro ka kitna apmaan kar rahe hain. Itna hi nahi Iran ke Avesta mein se bhi aap tod maror ke jhoot tathya pesh kar rahe hain. Aap ko kisne adhikar diya hai jhoot bolne ka?

Kahan avesta mein Saraswati nadi ka varnan hai?

Kahan avesta mein divodas ka janam Iran mein likha hai?

Jab divodas ka janam iran mein likha nahin to aap roj aan Roy ko kaise sach maan rahe hain?
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Every bit of information in the form of records is sacrosanct for a student of history and in the same spirit I repose faith in them. I have full faith in ancient glorious heritage and culture of mankind and India.


I have never rejected arbitrarily the utility and usefulness or otherwise of sources of history either they are from India or from any other place.

If some inadvertent error has crept in during the course of typing the quotes, if brought to notice, I am ready to apologize for the error and rectify the same.


If we place reliance on any one chosen source as ''the only store house of information and no other than the selected one'' then what is the need of collecting as many other sources of information as possible for their use in comparative studies of various ages in the development of the history of mankind. Making use of diversified sources to test a hypothesis is not considered as an offence in research. It is done with an eye to arrive at some convincing conclusion. My hypothesis may be ultimately proved correct or conversely rejected as wrong with the stronger presentation of sources. That is all.

In the same way, if you have formulated some other hypothesis on the topic of discussion, you are free to push forward the same supported by your sources and let others support or contradict it.

This would automatically solve the problem. So use strong evidences [not strong unwarranted and avoidable words against any one] to counter other point of view !



NB:
1. Evaluation of historical references from sacred books does not amount disregard of the sacred and holy books. Rather it enhances their value as mines of knowledge of the past.
2. Since no worthwhile purpose would be served by lingering on this aspect, let us take a pause and collect more information before closing the issue of identification of chronology of Pre-historic and Proto-historic India.
3. All are invited to contribute their reasoned views towards solving various other issues of the Ancient History of India in the threads of their choice.
 
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Dr Singh


The young gentleman has been asking you for some time to answer the questions, reproduced below.

1. ' Kahan avesta mein Saraswati nadi ka varnan hai?


English: Where is the reference to the Sarasvati ( river) in the Avesta.


2. Kahan avesta mein divodas ka janam Iran mein likha hai?


ENGLISH: Where in the Avesta is the reference that Divodas was born in Iran?


For further clarity, he is asking for the original references.

Please answer the questions, with evidence

Ravi Chaudhary
 
ravichaudhary said:
Dr Singh


The young gentleman has been asking you for some time to answer the questions, reproduced below.

1. ' Kahan avesta mein Saraswati nadi ka varnan hai?


English: Where is the reference to the Sarasvati ( river) in the Avesta.


2. Kahan avesta mein divodas ka janam Iran mein likha hai?


ENGLISH: Where in the Avesta is the reference that Divodas was born in Iran?


For further clarity, he is asking for the original references.

Please answer the questions, with evidence

Ravi Chaudhary
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Welcome Chaudhary Sahib,

It is good of you that you have addressed two direct questions out of the views expressed during the course of discussion raised by certain participants.

I have noted the same and try to find out their answers from original sources in due course of time.

Till then, bye !

Thanks and regards,
 
ravichaudhary said:
Dr. Singh

I have already advised that I will not be moderating any thread where I have participated on .

Please see:

post # 593


http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...History-Newer-discussions&p=334508#post334508

open Quote:

" There is a reason I have stopped participating on this and similar threads

If I was to put my moderator hat on, I would have stopped this discussion quite some time ago.

It is not contributing to the objectives of the Jat- History section of this site

When this section started, and I had some little hand in it, the objectives were to

1) Collect information on Jat history
2) Create a venue where community could be educated in their history
3) Develop a coherent History of our people.
4) Educate our people
5) Have some fun doing it.


We have made some progress.

The History of our people is there more in the absence, than is evident in the writing in the conventional History text books.

However, anyone with a little education, will have come to the logical conclusion, that simply copying and pasting quotes from writers, who lived a century or so ago, who had no idea of the Jat history or culture, could not bring a coherent picture forward.

The posts for a few months, are of the ‘ copy and paste’ variety.

They do not add to our knowledge.

If I was to put my moderator hat on, I would ban these posts.

If some one makes a quote/' copy paste ', they should also write their OWN opinion, and reasons for making the quote, and showing why it is relevant.



If the poster does not have an opinion, some critical thoughts, they should not make the “ copy and paste “ post.

In simpler words, if you do not have anything that adds to our knowledge, do not post

This is quite separate from the posts of people who are new, and simply unaware and uninformed about History in general or about the History of our people in particular.

These posts we welcome. The more participation we get the better. That is what this site/ section is for.

What I would like to see stop, is the mindless ‘ copy and paste’ posts, and the endless circular justifications, of ‘ so and so said’, therefore it must be true.

Feedback please?

What would members like to see?

Ravi Chaudhary [end quote]

Those frustrated by the situation/tactics should not allow themselves to react.


Ravi Chaudhary
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Excellent.
 
Concerning fixation of the date line of Ramayana an interesting link to be taken into consideration is :

http://www.hindunet.org/hindu_histor...ma_vartak.html

The author had made use of internal references contained in the Ramayana on date line by basing his study on astronomic method to derive conclusions on deciding the dates of Ramayana chronology. He has also authored a book in Marathi on Ramayana. This study could be a good source to compare and contrast other studies on the issue of chronology of ancient times history.

Readers are requested to provide help in identifying other such links as throw some light on the pre history of India's chronology.
 
Friends,

For kind attention of those scholars who are interested in identification of the Rigvedic Sarasvati River, kindly click the below given link and see two Sarasvati rivers marked on the map. This leads one to ask which of the two has been frequently addressed in the Rigveda and why two not one Rigvedic period Sarasvati Rivers !

lrburdak said:
Kindly see on Jatland - Sarasvati River. We have uploaded a Map of Rigvedic geography showing locations of two Saraswati Rivers.
Click to expand...

Thanks,
 
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To resume the chronology aspect of the Mauryas, it would be of interest to the readers that the Edicts of Asoka, the grandson of Chandragupta Maurya, have provided a number of cross references which have helped in settling this vexatious question about the contemporariness of the rulers of India, Syria, Greece etc. These cross references have settled the identification of the founder of the Maurya empire, Chandragupta Maurya and his son Bindusara and also their time line[c. 323 B.C. to 187 B C] and royal lineage.

Therefore, while deciding the issues pertaining to fixation of chronology of historic events and personages, cross references are sure shots. Therefore, while finding out the timeline of ancient royal dynasties of pre-history of India, their cross linkages with Rishi lists have to be traced from the ancient literature.

We cannot blame non availability of literary evidences on the issue; the fault lies with us as we fail to apply latest tools of research methodology to sift account of legends and myths from true historical narrative.

Kindly come up with your findings and enlighten us on the issue of chronology of ancient Indian History as mentioned in the Vedic literature, Puranas and epics.

Thanks and regards,
 
The Rock inscriptions and the Pillar Edicts left behind by Asoka

are the proud heritage of Ancient India, which is unparalleled in

the annals of the world history. They contain many sided

information on the administration, policies and personality of

the emperor and his relations with his people and the contemporary

foreign rulers.

Prinsep brought them before the world by deciphering their writing and

translating them into English.
 
Dasaratha and Divodasa were contemporaries as they are said to have

fought as allies against their common enemy Shambara, the Hariyupean king.

When was this battle fought between the two parties/groups and

what were the boundaries of their realms will be an absorbing and

interesting issue of discussion.

Kindly share your studies to fix up their time line.
 
According to H.C. Roychaudhury, P.H.A.I., p. 65, 'Dasaratha' is mentioned in the Rigvedic hymn, R.V. 1.126.4. But no one agreed with him because etymologically 'Dasaratha' means ten chariots.

However, a proper name may or may not have a meaning, but, that does not make it the less a proper name. The hymn by Kakshivan Ausija, a junior of Kakshivan, was contemporary of Divodasa.

If this identification of the near contemporary Risi who composed the Rigvedic hymn under reference and the kings referred to are taken for further scrutiny by the scholars, perhaps, the time-line of our history may be identified properly and fixed scientifically.

Views of interested scholars on this issue are invited.

Thanks.
 
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It would be interesting to compare the above inference with the evidence, if any, from epic Ramayana.

Could anybody extend help in the matter !
 
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