System Vs Mansikta

[ssgoyat]

Sivach bhai,

tere mere barge to fer bhi an sarkari afsaraan te sawal jawaab karke... complaint karan ki dhamki de ke... RTI laga ke kaam kadhwaa lya saa....

jo bechare gaama me reh se..un gel ke banya karei.. khaaskar bade budhare mandasse-dogge aale.... ek do kaudi ka clerk bhi unko ghanto wait karwata hai apne office ke darwaje ke bahar..thak haar ke boodha agle din fir ummed le ke pahunchta hai...

aise me bechare gaam ke log aur kya na karein....... sochte hain koe gaam, guhaan, rishtedaari ka chhora paa ja is daftar me, je usne keh sun ke kaam bann jya to... kya galat hai isme, paise to denn ka byont na ho pata in bechara ka.aur thak haar ke ke karein !!

 

[desijat]

Joke told by Manohar Parrikar -CM of Goa at Pan IIT Meet in Pune......

"Two lions escape from a zoo. One of the lions had been captured from the jungle, so he runs back to the jungle. The other was born in the zoo itself - so is basically a city-slicker. He vanishes into the city.



Three days later the jungle-lion is recaptured - and returned to the zoo. A month passes, then two, three..... but city-lion is not traceable! Finally, after six months the city-lion is also recaptured and brought back to the zoo. Jungle-lion is amazed to see his friend.



Jungle-lion: For God's sake, how were you able to evade these guys for 6 whole months?!



City-lion: Kuchh nahi yaar! I just went to a government department, and hid behind a huge pile of dusty files that they have there.



Jungle-lion: But what did you eat there?



City-lion: Arrey, there was an unlimited supply of government servants. Whenever I ate one, they hired five more. Nobody did any work anyway, so nobody missed the ones I ate.



Jungle-lion: Wow! But, then how did you get caught?



City-lion: Galti kar gaya yaar... On the last day I ate the chai-walla. Now, everyone missed their chai-walla & their chai! They launched a massive hunt. And I got caught!"

 

[samarkadian]

Political parties donot make system, execution is totally in the hands of babus, they donot change with political party so there cannot be change, sir our execution is totally faulty, corrupt, influenced by many facters like caste, religion, area, selfishness etc so till we improve our exucutive class, there will be no change

It seem contradictory when you parallely say ''system'' and its execution is in hands of red tape and ''We'' need to improve.

1. Why doesn't system (sarkari babu's) get smart enough to plug the loopholes. Because they make loop holes (politicians), for the advantage of big fishes (who are again politicians and/or their dear one's).
2. Why couldn't system (Election commission of India) starts e-voting (Gujarat has already implemented that). Because they don't want urban people, who know governments goof ups well, to vote.

1.1- Again who sends these ''loopholes'' to the loops to make holes?

1.2- In most MC elections through out the nation ,where supposedly there is urban population , story is the same.

शासक और प्रजा दोनों की ही कमियों की वजह से आज सिस्टम इतना खराब है| पहली बात तो राजनेता और अफसर मिलकर मजबूत सिस्टम बनाते ही नहीं, अगर बना भी दे तो हम लोग इतने आलसी और उतावले हो गए है कि हमें अपनी बारी आने तक का इन्तेज़ार नहीं होता या तो कोई जुगाड निकाली जायेगी उस विभाग में, किसी नेता की सिफारिश लगवांगे और जिनके पास दोनों नहीं है वो पैसे देकर से अपना काम करवाते है | पहले मैं, पहले मैं की होड ने हर सिस्टम को खराब करके रख दिया है | सिर्फ सरकार और अफसर ही भ्रष्ट नहीं लोग भी काफी हद तक भ्रष्ट हो चुके है|

देश की चिंता तो बहुत दूर की बात है, लोग ग्राम प्रधानी / सरपंच के चुनाव में वोट के बदले नोट लेते है, दावते लेते है प्रधानी / सरपंच के उम्मीदवारों से, जो प्रधान/सरपंच पैसा खर्च करके चुनाव जीता हो वो सबसे पहले खर्च लिये पैसो की उगाही करेगा और जिन्होंने दावते खा रखी वो किस मुंह दे उस ते कह सके गाँव के विकास की बात, हाँ आपस में खुसर फुसर जरूर करेंगे कि प्रधान तो सारा ही पैसा खा गया भाई |

भ्रष्ट लोगो की संख्या इतनी ज्यादा हो गयी है ईमानदार लोग हासिये पर है | जब हम सिस्टम का या भ्रष्टाचार का शिकार होते है तो बड़ी बड़ी बाते करते है और जब हम खुद कर रहे होते है तो किसी ना किसी मजबूरी के मत्थे सारा दोष मढ देते है|

आखिरी वाक्य एक दम सटीकता से समस्या का आइना दिखा रहा है ! नागरिक अधिकारों के साथ साथ एक नवीनतम साझा जिम्मेदारी भी आती है लेकिन वही '' चलता है यार '' वाली मानसिकता !

Partial truth, Our choices are contra-causal(It means our choices are not independent of situation), if a same person lives in different environment, he may behave differently. We are not fully independent, our thinking, actions, choices depends upon where we are born, what religion/ideology our family profess, what people we have interacted with. So a corrupt system produces corrupt people, nothing surprising in that, a person born in a cannibal tribe will be cannibal.


[
Another partial truth, this system is made up of person like me and you, we are constituent of system. So it's we who made this truth.

Now
Q.1 Why we are corrupt ? Ans. Because we live in corrupt system.
Q.2 Why System is corrupt ? Ans. Because it's constituted by corrupt people like us.
So it's a cyclic reasoning which may lead us to nowhere.
Now my opinion : Not only we are shaped by this system but we are also shaping this system, it's dialectical process.

Suppose you live in corrupt system, what will you do ? Will you go for trying to change system(possibility is little and opportunity cost is too high) or will you adapt to system(there is fair possibility that you may get along )? First choices will be adopted by those who want to live life of dignity and second by those who want to live life of happiness, choice is yours.

So we are doomed in conclusion ?

 

[bsbana]

So we are doomed in conclusion ?

Well, both system and individual influence each other but extant of influence also matters. There are people who are least influenced by system, they are impervious, system can't influence them. Then there are people whose actions are more or less totally determined by system. There are people who leave negligible influence on system and there are people who have such an influence on system that they are remembered for centuries, it may be both negative or positive. They have charisma like Jesus Christ , Mahatma Gandhi, Adolf Hitler, Buddha, Stalin,Karl Marx, etc. So these are 3 possibilities
1. Neither you are able to influence system nor system able to influence you. You are a honest person in corrupt system, you are not able to alter it.
2. System influenced you, you became corrupt from honest.
3. You influenced system, system became honest.
Probability of 2 is highest, 1 is moderate and 3rd is least.

 

[arvindc]

Not in democracy, in democracy partial power corrupts. Thus you would realise regional parties end up doing more corruption when coming to power. E.G. DMK, AIA DMK, BSP, SP etc etc etc

Well, that may be due to their inexperience of doing corruption.

 

[vicky84]

Not in democracy, in democracy partial power corrupts. Thus you would realise regional parties end up doing more corruption when coming to power. E.G. DMK, AIA DMK, BSP, SP etc etc etc

Excellent explanation!! :applause: Kudos!! :victorious:

P.S: I understand where you are coming from.

 

[cooljat]

.

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."
― Richard Buckminster Fuller



In nutshell, current system is rotten, full of loopholes and flaws .. it just can't be patched anymore. A new better system is the need of hour and until it replaces the current one, impose Martial law. Simple!

 

[samarkadian]

.

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."
― Richard Buckminster Fuller



In nutshell, current system is rotten, full of loopholes and flaws .. it just can't be patched anymore. A new better system is the need of hour and until it replaces the current one, impose Martial law. Simple!

Quite prudent solution ! Jit, of course, you love quoting quotes and even more you love imposing evergreen martial law.

New model of what ? Have you something in mind ? Who would make it, who would implement it and how ?

 

[desijat]

Jit, of course, you love quoting quotes and even more you love imposing evergreen martial law.

That is what happens when one does not read much or put in thoughts before speaking. If only he had seen our neighbors condition, he would have never spoken about Martial law.

 

[ssgoyat]

That is what happens when one does not read much or put in thoughts before speaking. If only he had seen our neighbors condition, he would have never spoke about Martial law.

ye fatte barge... bina e marshal law ke ... vardi utra pachche jeen bichaye rakkhe se... yo martial law ki baat kare se...


fauji arr soor khulle chhoddan ke na hotte...


विशेष : उपरोक्त पोस्ट केवल हास्य रस के लिए है। मेरा मकसद किसी की भावना को आहत करने का नहीं है।

 

[ssgoyat]

.


In nutshell, current system is rotten, full of loopholes and flaws .. it just can't be patched anymore. A new better system is the need of hour and until it replaces the current one, impose XYZ law. Simple!

Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness..

 

[malikdeepak1]

fauji arr soor khulle chhoddan ke na hotte...

ओ तेरी कै! हा हा हा हा हा हा हा।। भाई सत्ते भिघन जमा। हान्स-हान्स लोटपोट हो गया मै तो इसने पढ़ के। :triumphant: :triumphant:
भाई डिस्क्लेमर गेरना जरुरी है, न तो जेल हो जागी भाई अक पर्सनल अटेक + सोशल डिफेमेष्ण।


विशेष : उपरोक्त पोस्ट केवल हास्य रस के लिए है। मेरा मकसद किसी की भावना को आहत करने का नहीं है।

 

[rinkusheoran]

People get the govt that they deserve not other way round. Everyone hates politics and politicians but they are part of day to day politics be it in office/villages.
Jab kabhi koi police wala pakad leta hai to har koi 400 bachane k chakar mein 100-200 dene ko tyar rehta hai n galti police wale ki.

 

[vicky84]

''अरे यार!! कुछ नहीं होना इंडिया का ! सिस्टम ही खराब है, सब करप्ट हैं ! ! सारे नेता लोग चोर हैं !! कितना ही कोशिश कर लो यहाँ कुछ नहीं बदलने वाला !! खैर अपने को क्या , छोड़ इन बातो को !! ''

hahahaha liked those lines!!

लेकिन जरा सोचे और जरा सा और सोचे तो समझ में थोडा थोडा आता है की ये तथाकथित चिरकालीन खराब सिस्टम हम ही हैं ! स्वीकार करने में जोर पड़ता है ! नहीं क्या ? मै तो करता हूँ ! आपका पता नहीं ! हमारी अपंग, भीरु मानसिकता इस सिस्टम को सींच कर बल देती है और हम इसके अस्तित्व को अपने से बाहर समझ कर यकीं करने लगते हैं !

बाकी अगर किसी पढ़ने वाले के कुछ विचार हो तो आमंत्रित हैं !

Samar bhai, South mai Jay Prakash ji laag re sain kasuti dhaal, lekin koye koni jitata untai oddai..Congress party tai jita dein sai ya palat kai ek aadhi doosri party tai..

Baat ya sai ke:

1. Desh mei jo drama accha kar leta hai wo jeet jata hai.(Yo Bollywood bhi bhot sedh rehya sai desh tai.. Amitabh ki filaman nai ibb tak bihari dekhe jaawe sain aar south mai Rajnikant nai apna prabhaav dikha rakha sai)

2. JP Narayan jaise ki baat ka na to kisse dhorre tame sunan ka aar na hi wai ghankharyan kai samagh aani... Logg tai sidhe saral Drame to samagh sakain sain lekin JP Narayan ki complex, logical baat nai koni samghein.. aar chahe tu padhe likhe nai bitha liye jai we bhi JP ki baat nai maan le to..

3. Desh mai jo desh bhakti ka accha drama kar leta hai wo bhi chaa jata hai.. Naryana saab to fact pai baat karein sain..drama unke karya pranali mai sai koni, to bhai koon vote de dega aar koon unnai jaanega...

haan Kezriwal ki tarah aap kuch jor shor se desh bhakti ke drame kar sakte ho to alag baat hai..

to bhai niskarsh ye hai ke ya rail gaadi tai nyu e chalegi..

 

[desijat]

ye fatte barge... bina e marshal law ke ... vardi utra pachche jeen bichaye rakkhe se... yo martial law ki baat kare se...


fauji arr soor khulle chhoddan ke na hotte...

।

Correct me if I am wrong but isnt your father an ex-army man? Even if not, is this how you respect an institution that saves your country? I feel you suffer from severe inferiority complex that you go to this extend to malign a respected institution and a noble profession.

Also, consider this my last attention to you.

 

[desijat]

I agree... Politicians are better actors than bollywood actors, in real life.

1. Desh mei jo drama accha kar leta hai wo jeet jata hai.(Yo Bollywood bhi bhot sedh rehya sai desh tai.. Amitabh ki filaman nai ibb tak bihari dekhe jaawe sain aar south mai Rajnikant nai apna prabhaav dikha rakha sai)

2. JP Narayan jaise ki baat ka na to kisse dhorre tame sunan ka aar na hi wai ghankharyan kai samagh aani... Logg tai sidhe saral Drame to samagh sakain sain lekin JP Narayan ki complex, logical baat nai koni samghein.. aar chahe tu padhe likhe nai bitha liye jai we bhi JP ki baat nai maan le to..

3. Desh mai jo desh bhakti ka accha drama kar leta hai wo bhi chaa jata hai.. Naryana saab to fact pai baat karein sain..drama unke karya pranali mai sai koni, to bhai koon vote de dega aar koon unnai jaanega...

haan Kezriwal ki tarah aap kuch jor shor se desh bhakti ke drame kar sakte ho to alag baat hai..

to bhai niskarsh ye hai ke ya rail gaadi tai nyu e chalegi..

 

[cooljat]

We need to get rid of this fake democracy and policial parties 'khinchdi' first. I have many things in my mind, to start with -

- Abolish this many political parties crap. There should only be two or max 3 parties like these western developed countries have.
- When you have most tough selection criteria for IAS exams then why not for contestants in election? There should be minimum education and experience criteria. Goons, criminals must not get tickets, thorough background check should be compulsory.
- Put full stop to red-tapism and make processes more agile, transparent and electronic.
- Make govt jobs like private one, if you perform then only should be retained or otherwise fire the non-performers sarkari karamchari.
- Impose uniform law and abolish this reservation from whole country. All creed, cast, color should be treated same.
- Make 2 year army tenure compulsory like Israel also make NCC mandatory in schools.
- Put a full stop to aristocratic rule in the name of democracy by 'Gandhi Khandan'.
- Reform our judicial system. It must be made fast track like Army courts.


I don't know how and who will gonna implement it as I see all darkness but there's a ray of hope and that's Martial Law. Period!

Quite prudent solution ! Jit, of course, you love quoting quotes and even more you love imposing evergreen martial law.

New model of what ? Have you something in mind ? Who would make it, who would implement it and how ?

 

[desijat]

We need to get rid of this fake democracy and policial parties 'khinchdi' first. I have many things in my mind, to start with -

- Abolish this many political parties crap. There should only be two or max 3 parties like these western developed countries have.

For a sweet exception, I agree.

I don't know how and who will gonna implement it as I see all darkness but there's a ray of hope and that's

 

[vicky84]

- When you have most tough selection criteria for IAS exams then why not for contestants in election?

Jit, whats the use of it? Does an entrance exam help in reducing corruption or inefficiency? Today most of these bureaucrats are totally corrupt and inefficient. How would an exam guarantee in getting right leaders?

 

[sanjeev1984]

ha ha ha ha.... mugjhe bada pasand aaya... ispe ek joke banaya hai maine... agar izazat ho to sunau???

[/COLOR]

For a sweet exception, I agree.