This is quite amazing. I would like to know where in RigVed does Vasisth kill Zarathustra. Which mandal mentions that. That will be a very historical find. What is the date of Zarathustra according to you?
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Rigvedic River Sarswati In India or Iran
- Thread starter drrajpalsingh
- Start date
This is quite amazing. I would like to know where in RigVed does Vasisth kill Zarathustra. Which mandal mentions that. That will be a very historical find. What is the date of Zarathustra according to you?
narenderkharb
Active member
I see that you are going by Kochaar. That can easily be dealt with also since we know your source and his book is not difficult.
Is there any other source that you would like to quote.
What is the date of Yashts, btw. Does Kochaar seem to know that too or he is not able to differentiate different books within Avestan literature when he wrote his book. His chapter titled 'RigVedic rivers' there is just mention of only Avestan rivers and he does not seem to know Yashts and various books. I think, there is no mention of Yasht in his book.
On a similar note it is difficult to take any date seriously if we read that '... this was written in Vedic literature'. This will have very little meaning for assigning dates as the Vedic literature spans centuries or even millenia. Even though Avestan literature is not as large as Vedic but still has its various books with time lags between each.
Kindly look up the date of Yashts and share.
It would have been nice had you explained the points raised in the post.
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narenderkharb
Active member
This is quite amazing. I would like to know where in RigVed does Vasisth kill Zarathustra. Which mandal mentions that. That will be a very historical find. What is the date of Zarathustra according to you?
If I could recllect even romar put a post regarding that in Chronology thread .Zarthura is mentioned not once but twice in Rigveda ...You can read and find the refernce from this online PDF version .
http://archive.org/details/RigVedaInHindi
Also no scholar of any worth who know something about persian literature can ever deny that animoisty of Iranian Aryans were with Turanians not with Indians ..That meant their deivas enemies were in Turan( central Asia) not in India .
Do you have an answer for this ?
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narenderkharb
Active member
A request ..
Let us leave acrimony and concentrate on arguments in our posts.
Let us leave acrimony and concentrate on arguments in our posts.
If I could recllect even romar put a post regarding that in Chronology thread .Zarthura is mentioned not once but twice in Rigveda ...You can read and find the refernce from this online PDF version .
http://archive.org/details/RigVedaInHindi
Also no scholar of any worth who know something about persian literature can ever deny that animoisty of Iranian Aryans were with Turanians not with Indians ..That meant their deivas enemies were in Turan( central Asia) not in India .
Do you have an answer for this ?
Thanks for the pdf link to RigVed in Devnagri. I will go through it for the event that you described. You can make my job easier if you can tell me the page numbers or the particular slok to read. That will be very helpful, else it will take me days or weeks to go through it.
While I find that out, do you know the timeliine/date of Yashts and Zarthustra.
narenderkharb
Active member
Thanks for the pdf link to RigVed in Devnagri. I will go through it for the event that you described. You can make my job easier if you can tell me the page numbers or the particular slok to read. That will be very helpful, else it will take me days or weeks to go through it.
While I find that out, do you know the timeliine/date of Yashts and Zarthustra.
Sorry , I didn't intend to quote that so missed sukat number.Zathura is portrayed as a priest in one sukat and an enemy that was destryoed by Vasistha in another sukata..anyway..
I was expecting your answer to my earlier questions..
Iranians clearly place devas in central asians Turaninan area ...and don't report their animoisty with Indians.
So is it not very clear that Deva worshiper earlier lived in central Asia?
What is your answer????
Second what is your answer on points raised by Kocchar on Ghaggar river identification with Sarswati river?
drrajpalsingh
New member
Perhaps, arguments to prove Sarsvati mentioned in Rigaveda in India seem to have become scarce as no reply to Kharb Sahib's question has emanated even after gap of such a long period.
drrajpalsingh
New member
For restoration of lost Sarasvati, members of Sarasvati Sodh Samiti of Kuruksehtra held a dharana near Pipali Bridge. Would they or would they not, is the question !!!
for full report log in www.tribuneindia.com Haryana plus page 2 dated 16th July 2013 Chandigarh Edition.
for full report log in www.tribuneindia.com Haryana plus page 2 dated 16th July 2013 Chandigarh Edition.
prashantacmet
New member
For restoration of lost Sarasvati, members of Sarasvati Sodh Samiti of Kuruksehtra held a dharana near Pipali Bridge. Would they or would they not, is the question !!!
for full report log in www.tribuneindia.com Haryana plus page 2 dated 16th July 2013 Chandigarh Edition.
I heard that sarswati has been found in Yamuna nagar....your take and change in your perception after this about Iran theory of sarswati
http://indiareckoner.net/2015/05/haryana-saraswati-river-found-in-yamuna-nagar/
drrajpalsingh
New member
I heard that sarswati has been found in Yamuna nagar....your take and change in your perception after this about Iran theory of sarswati
http://indiareckoner.net/2015/05/haryana-saraswati-river-found-in-yamuna-nagar/
Some people are trying to establish Saraswati Udgam from AADI BADARI in Yamunanagar district but the references in the ancient/ old literature particularly of Rigvedic period do not fit in their scheme of things.
Now, a pump house tube well has been installed to fill a pond built at purported Udgam of Sarsaswati which fills a small pond with water where the visitors started to have bath in the 'sacred Saraswati' water.
This is totally wrong identification of the historic Sarswati, perhaps to take advantage to promote tourism particularly religious tourism in this part of the country. The protagonists of this new venture have applied for a big amount of money to re-establish the lost Saraswati and it is learnt the Haryana Government has also shown eagerness in this project. Earlier when Jagmohan Singh was Tourism Minister in Vajpayee Government the scheme was launched with great funfair and has re-emerged with NDA coming to power again.
Some people are trying to establish Saraswati Udgam from AADI BADARI in Yamunanagar district but the references in the ancient/ old literature particularly of Rigvedic period do not fit in their scheme of things.
Rajpalji
We have page created by you on Jatland http://www.jatland.com/home/Saraswati
You have added - "The Saraswati emerges from the Shivalik range of Himalyan mountains on the plains at Adi Badri in district Yamunanagar in Haryana".
What are the reasons to disbelieve it ?
The idea seems to be that multiple departments spend lots of money into useless thing so that each pockets some money. As the thing is useless, it would drain down from people's memory very fast and thus no one would be held accountable for the flop show.Some people are trying to establish Saraswati Udgam from AADI BADARI in Yamunanagar district but the references in the ancient/ old literature particularly of Rigvedic period do not fit in their scheme of things.
Now, a pump house tube well has been installed to fill a pond built at purported Udgam of Sarsaswati which fills a small pond with water where the visitors started to have bath in the 'sacred Saraswati' water.
This is totally wrong identification of the historic Sarswati, perhaps to take advantage to promote tourism particularly religious tourism in this part of the country. The protagonists of this new venture have applied for a big amount of money to re-establish the lost Saraswati and it is learnt the Haryana Government has also shown eagerness in this project. Earlier when Jagmohan Singh was Tourism Minister in Vajpayee Government the scheme was launched with great funfair and has re-emerged with NDA coming to power again.
Any ways people rarely think that government's is their own and it should be used with the same cautious approach as we use our money for our family.
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drssrana2003
New member
Sorry , I didn't intend to quote that so missed sukat number.Zathura is portrayed as a priest in one sukat and an enemy that was destryoed by Vasistha in another sukata..anyway..
I was expecting your answer to my earlier questions..
Iranians clearly place devas in central asians Turaninan area ...and don't report their animoisty with Indians.
So is it not very clear that Deva worshiper earlier lived in central Asia?
What is your answer????
Second what is your answer on points raised by Kocchar on Ghaggar river identification with Sarswati river?
Narendra Ji,
I have used unsuccessfully the best tools available to me to locate the mention of Zarathustra
in the Rigveda either as a priest or the fact of his being killed at he hands of Vashishtha. If you
could point out the exact reference, I would love to understand and comment.
I think it is not very helpful to proceed on the basis of sundry similar sounding references in
alien literature todraw inferencesabout our own heritage unless the evidence is clinching.
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drrajpalsingh
New member
Rajpalji
We have page created by you on Jatland http://www.jatland.com/home/Saraswati
You have added - "The Saraswati emerges from the Shivalik range of Himalyan mountains on the plains at Adi Badri in district Yamunanagar in Haryana".
What are the reasons to disbelieve it ?
Friend,
Thanks for bringing the contradiction to notice, I have re-edited both the links and presented concluding remarks as under :
"==Conclusion==
The answer to the problem being discussed, perhaps, lies in the fact that Sarasvati is connected with the Pitrs i.e. "the departed forefathers of the people'' as mentioned in the Rigvedic verses mentioned earlier (RV X.17.8-9), so our answer would be that this past memory of the Indian Aryans relates to the [[Sarasvati River]] in Iran which was called Harahavaiti and still flows as Arghandab. It seems probable that when one branch of the Ancient Aryans migrated from the banks of the Sarasvati/Harahvaiti in Iran and settled in India, they named the most important river of their new home after the name of the river of their former homeland.
It can be recalled that Harahvaiti figures in the Avesta as one of the 'good lands' [i.e. no. 10] also created by Ahura Mazda for the settlement of Aryans.
Thus the lost Saraswati is being searched out now and then in Indian soil and the latest work of search by Haryana Government is going on at Adi Badri in district Yamunanagar in Haryana, the place from where it is believed by some that the river entered into plains leaving behind Shivalik range of Himalyas."
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drrajpalsingh
New member
The search for lost Saraswati is being searched out now and then in Indian soil and the latest work of search by Haryana Government is going on at Adi Badri in district Yamunanagar.
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saraswati-river-sprouts-life-haryana-
and also :http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/ha...myth-water-strikes-at-7-feet-depth/76786.html
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saraswati-river-sprouts-life-haryana-
and also :http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/ha...myth-water-strikes-at-7-feet-depth/76786.html
drrajpalsingh
New member
For still another view, read please :
When you wake up to a dramatic newspaper headline saying "Saraswati river sprouts to life after 4,000 years" - it is natural to sit up and take notice of a development that promises to be of historical and religious significance. The Saraswati river, after all, has been described as the "greatest of mothers, greatest of rivers and greatest of goddesses" in our Vedas.
Yet, I read the article with an ennui of a journalist who has been a long distance runner - been there, seen that. The story says that the Haryana Assembly Speaker and Yamunanagar Deputy Commissioner rushed to the spot this week and tasted the water. The article in Mail Today on Saturday also says the Haryana government will try to revive the Saraswati river by diverting water from the Somb river too.
In 2003, I too went to Adi Badri, Yamunanagar with a team of Saraswati-seekers who pointed to a thin stream and a puddle and exclaimed it was the mighty Saraswati river that used to come from the Himalayas and flowed into the Arabian Sea. Now they are claiming that again.
A special national team - comprising of glaciologists, archaeologists, remote sensing experts, historians, - was set up by the Atal Behari Vajpayee government to hunt for the river that our ancient scriptures claimed had dried up and disappeared from thousands of years ago. Armed with NASA maps from the 1970s that showed signs of channels of water in northern and western India, the team began digging for the river. Everytime they found ancient clay artifacts along the NASA map route, the archaeologists told me this was indeed the Saraswati river, the site of ancient settlements. Our ancestors had written the Vedas sitting on the banks of this river, they said. What bolstered their claim was that in 1998, groundwater experts dug wells along this route and had found potable water, even in the desert.
It is easy to get swayed by this heady cocktail of faith, science, politics and history.
Source acknowledged with thanks : http://www.dailyo.in/politics/saras...-vajpayee-nasa-indus-valley/story/1/3630.html
When you wake up to a dramatic newspaper headline saying "Saraswati river sprouts to life after 4,000 years" - it is natural to sit up and take notice of a development that promises to be of historical and religious significance. The Saraswati river, after all, has been described as the "greatest of mothers, greatest of rivers and greatest of goddesses" in our Vedas.
Yet, I read the article with an ennui of a journalist who has been a long distance runner - been there, seen that. The story says that the Haryana Assembly Speaker and Yamunanagar Deputy Commissioner rushed to the spot this week and tasted the water. The article in Mail Today on Saturday also says the Haryana government will try to revive the Saraswati river by diverting water from the Somb river too.
In 2003, I too went to Adi Badri, Yamunanagar with a team of Saraswati-seekers who pointed to a thin stream and a puddle and exclaimed it was the mighty Saraswati river that used to come from the Himalayas and flowed into the Arabian Sea. Now they are claiming that again.
A special national team - comprising of glaciologists, archaeologists, remote sensing experts, historians, - was set up by the Atal Behari Vajpayee government to hunt for the river that our ancient scriptures claimed had dried up and disappeared from thousands of years ago. Armed with NASA maps from the 1970s that showed signs of channels of water in northern and western India, the team began digging for the river. Everytime they found ancient clay artifacts along the NASA map route, the archaeologists told me this was indeed the Saraswati river, the site of ancient settlements. Our ancestors had written the Vedas sitting on the banks of this river, they said. What bolstered their claim was that in 1998, groundwater experts dug wells along this route and had found potable water, even in the desert.
It is easy to get swayed by this heady cocktail of faith, science, politics and history.
Source acknowledged with thanks : http://www.dailyo.in/politics/saras...-vajpayee-nasa-indus-valley/story/1/3630.html
drrajpalsingh
New member
The search for lost Saraswati is being searched out now and then in Indian soil and the latest work of search by Haryana Government is going on at Adi Badri in district Yamunanagar.
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/saraswati-river-sprouts-life-haryana-
and also :http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/ha...myth-water-strikes-at-7-feet-depth/76786.html
After going through the reports, it would be clear to readers that the effort of Haryana Government to create mythological underground Saraswati/Sarasvati river by diverting the water of Sone rivulet, a tributary of mighty Yamuna, available in the vicinity of Adi Badari, is aimed at promotion of the region as tourist complex to attract religious tourism. For boosting the economy spending of Rs. 50 crores is a minor expenditure for the government, but twisting of facts is a major causality in the effort.
But would it not be better if history is left history and not turned into myth for economic or political gains.
Enlisting all the Rivers in Jatland
It will be a good idea to enlist all the Rivers flowing in Jatbelt starting from Central Asia to India.
I have created detailed articles on Rivers in MP and Rajasthan.
http://www.jatland.com/home/Rivers_in_Rajasthan
http://www.jatland.com/home/Rivers_in_Madhya_Pradesh
We frequently need to verify ancient places located on Rivers. This will help in reconstructing History.
It will be a good idea to enlist all the Rivers flowing in Jatbelt starting from Central Asia to India.
I have created detailed articles on Rivers in MP and Rajasthan.
http://www.jatland.com/home/Rivers_in_Rajasthan
http://www.jatland.com/home/Rivers_in_Madhya_Pradesh
We frequently need to verify ancient places located on Rivers. This will help in reconstructing History.
drrajpalsingh
New member
Good idea.
Members are requested to join hands to do the needful in the matter.
Thanks for the yeoman's service you are doing to reconstruct Jat History.
Members are requested to join hands to do the needful in the matter.
Thanks for the yeoman's service you are doing to reconstruct Jat History.
shailchhillar
New member
Good idea.
Members are requested to join hands to do the needful in the matter.
Thanks for the yeoman's service you are doing to reconstruct Jat History.
Respected sir
In Rigveda mention of zarathustra, it is not possible if it is right that means Avesta is more ancient than rigveda. But many words in rigveda and avesta are similar like asura--ahura, Deva--Daevas, Yagna--Yasna and many more about 100 words.so the veda and avesta are closely related.
But one thing in my mind By linguistic evidences---Suraahi= Sura +Ahi, Sura (means Madira )this is persian word. who are Sur and Asur. And now in hindu we called Sur=Deva and Asura means Rakshas,,, while Asura means No touches to Sura (nobel man).and Sura means taking madira(bad man).
Now what we think in an ancient war sur defeated asura or what.............????..