How can Jats influence General Elections 2014?

[samarkadian]

Why and How Tau Devilal , Chaudhary Charan Singh rose to prominence in Indian politics?

The above question is self answering and explaining. Yes!! Jats votes had that bargaining power which would make above gentlemen to talk the talk and walk the walk. Unfortunately they are not alive and our votes seems to be divided but it alludes to the fact that we can influence the govt.Gibberish of voting to a good candidate is bullshit. No offences brothers!!

We would be toothless and insignificant in state and then in centre if we don't recognise that ''one''. But who would be our representative from the existing lot.? There could be one obvious criteria on these lines- The one who stands and talk and deliver for our rights whatsoever they are. To make it a bit easier and significant, better criteria should be the screening. Screening from the ground- That XYZ is Anti-Jat.

How would you define an anti-jat ruthlessly despite of having your compelling civilized logic and existing moral obligations? It should be ruthless prism instead of an emotional one. if you want to be emotional, then be emotional for Jathood. The High commands of any party would only be influenced by signalling that we are not for their agenda if it is Anti-Jat.

 

[maddhan1979]

Why and How Tau Devilal , Chaudhary Charan Singh rose to prominence in Indian politics?

The above question is self answering and explaining. Yes!! Jats votes had that bargaining power which would make above gentlemen to talk the talk and walk the walk. Unfortunately they are not alive and our votes seems to be divided but it alludes to the fact that we can influence the govt.Gibberish of voting to a good candidate is bullshit. No offences brothers!!

We would be toothless and insignificant in state and then in centre if we don't recognise that ''one''. But who would be our representative from the existing lot.? There could be one obvious criteria on these lines- The one who stands and talk and deliver for our rights whatsoever they are. To make it a bit easier and significant, better criteria should be the screening. Screening from the ground- That XYZ is Anti-Jat.

How would you define an anti-jat ruthlessly despite of having your compelling civilized logic and existing moral obligations? It should be ruthless prism instead of an emotional one. if you want to be emotional, then be emotional for Jathood. The High commands of any party would only be influenced by signalling that we are not for their agenda if it is Anti-Jat.

See the points are:


1. In past Jats have been doers whether that be Army or that be Farming. Both of the jobs require hard physical and mental labor.
2. Jats have never stood up for just "being Jats", they have stood for a reason.
3. Whether that be doing farming which involved feeding millions of people or defending or policing the nation.
3. Farming does not have any community. India is a Farming based country and even after so much changes in the economy, a large part of the population depends on farming and farming related trades. I think this is even realized by the business community of India.
4. Due to industrialization and commercialization of Jat farming belts, Jats have moved towards centralized farming connections in their civil and political life, which has effected them adversely in civil and political life. In large part of the country, farmers are still committing suicide and lot of changes in farming sectors are not being passed on to the end farmer, such farmers still have to go through lot of bottlenecks and congested system of farming.
5. Farmers do not have a community, caste or religion. He is the producer and feeder of millions in this country.

 

[maddhan1979]

See the points are:


1. In past Jats have been doers whether that be Army or that be Farming. Both of the jobs require hard physical and mental labor.
2. Jats have never stood up for just "being Jats", they have stood for a reason.
3. Whether that be doing farming which involved feeding millions of people or defending or policing the nation.
3. Farming does not have any community. India is a Farming based country and even after so much changes in the economy, a large part of the population depends on farming and farming related trades. I think this is even realized by the business community of India.
4. Due to industrialization and commercialization of Jat farming belts, Jats have moved towards centralized farming connections in their civil and political life, which has effected them adversely in civil and political life. In large part of the country, farmers are still committing suicide and lot of changes in farming sectors are not being passed on to the end farmer, such farmers still have to go through lot of bottlenecks and congested system of farming.
5. Farmers do not have a community, caste or religion. He is the producer and feeder of millions in this country.

See the points are:


1. In past Jats have been doers whether that be Army or that be Farming. Both of the jobs require hard physical and mental labor.
2. Jats have never stood up for just "being Jats", they have stood for a reason.
3. Whether that be doing farming which involved feeding millions of people or defending or policing the nation.
3. Farming does not have any community. India is a Farming based country and even after so much changes in the economy, a large part of the population depends on farming and farming related trades. I think this is even realized by the business community of India.
4. Due to industrialization and commercialization of Jat farming belts, Jats have moved towards centralized farming connections in their civil and political life, which has effected them adversely in civil and political life. In large part of the country, farmers are still committing suicide and lot of changes in farming sectors are not being passed on to the end farmer, such farmers still have to go through lot of bottlenecks and congested system of farming.
5. Farmers do not have a community, caste or religion. He is the producer and feeder of millions in this country.

The main point is not of "Pro Jat" or "Anti Jat", the main reason for this loss might be in the changing socio economic position of Jats, which is disconnecting them from major issues of everyday person in Farming and Business areas.

 

[prikshit]

Why and How Tau Devilal , Chaudhary Charan Singh rose to prominence in Indian politics?

The above question is self answering and explaining. Yes!! Jats votes had that bargaining power which would make above gentlemen to talk the talk and walk the walk. Unfortunately they are not alive and our votes seems to be divided but it alludes to the fact that we can influence the govt.Gibberish of voting to a good candidate is bullshit. No offences brothers!!

We would be toothless and insignificant in state and then in centre if we don't recognise that ''one''. But who would be our representative from the existing lot.? There could be one obvious criteria on these lines- The one who stands and talk and deliver for our rights whatsoever they are. To make it a bit easier and significant, better criteria should be the screening. Screening from the ground- That XYZ is Anti-Jat.

How would you define an anti-jat ruthlessly despite of having your compelling civilized logic and existing moral obligations? It should be ruthless prism instead of an emotional one. if you want to be emotional, then be emotional for Jathood. The High commands of any party would only be influenced by signalling that we are not for their agenda if it is Anti-Jat.

Congress (RLD) gave reservation and BJP stood by during mzfrnagar roits. It is conspicous that our presence is there. You have a valid point that we are not united when it comes to voting, secondly there is a void when you compare Tau Devilal , Chaudhary Charan Singh or present jat leaders.

 

[anilsangwan]

Every constituency has different equations depending upon candidates. There are seats where Jat play a very important role and there are few where they do not have much significance. However, it is true that Jats need to stay united while voting, else non Jat candidates will win.

For example :-

Hisar seat: Here non Jat votes have always been with Bhajanlal. Esp in Bawani Khera, Adampur, Nalwa, Hansi, Hisar City etc. This time also, election will be Vishnoi (non Jat) Vs 3 Jats ( Prof Sampat Singh, xyz Chautala, Yudhbir Singh Khayalia - AAP). Thus, Jat votes are sure to get divided. No one can stop. Likely fate you all know. Still Prof Singh has good chances if Jats of the area show unity and INLD sentimental wave is not built for Chautala (which is not likely to build so easily). Also, if Chautalaz want to come back to power in Haryana - they will need BJP. And for bringing BJP to their fold - they need to defeat Kuldeep Bishnoi... and thus, if they feel so, should help Prof Sampat Singh under the table.

Bhiwani: Shruti Chaudhary is a Jat but has not done anything for the area. Absolutely nothing. INLD is expected to field Jat (can be Abhay as well). And if Dharambir Talu aala also jumps to fray then some Yadav/ Non Jat can do wonders. This is why BJP is still weighing options to field Sudha Yadav OR Gen VK Singh from this seat. As an independent candidate- Dharambir can not get more than 30K votes in LS. He also knows this and thus, will not contest as independent candidate. All his drama is to convince BJP to give him ticket. He doenst want to be in Venod Sharma like situation.

Rohtak : Jats and non Jats - going together with Congress. Comfortable win for Deepender, however, margin might not be like last time. If BJP and INLD put a combined show of strength - I believe the margin can go below 1 lakh. But their coming together seems unlikely.

 

[narenderkharb]

The High commands of any party would only be influenced by signalling that we are not for their agenda if it is Anti-Jat.

Message to the high command should be loud and clear.


Otherwise we would loose our relevance as a community that matters.

 

[narenderkharb]

How others take you depend upon how you present yourself to others.

Taking intelligent decisions at critical junctures in History make you relevant or irrelevant to others.

Just read this and decide yourself.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Much-ado-about-jat-vote/articleshow/31763242.cms


Much ado about jat vote?

The writer has posted comments on this articleSubodh GhildiyalSubodh Ghildiyal,TNN | Mar 10, 2014, 06.50 AM IST


NEW DELHI: Date: April 1-2. Year 2008: That was when a battle of wits that pitted jat stalwart Mahendra Singh Tikait against dalit icon Mayawati broke out.

Tikait had hurled a caste slur against the then CM and found policemen snapping at his heels. He smirked and dug himself in at Muzaffarnagar's Sisauli village with clansmen and loyalists, brazenly challenging the state. An unrelenting Mayawati dispatched a 6,000-strong force to lay siege to the village. For two days UP worried bullets would rain and blood would flow.

The confrontation ended in a whimper. A chastened Tikait apologized and made up with Mayawati calling her his daughter, "beti". That surrender shrank the Tikait's stature. In social discourse, a dalit — weakest placed in feudal West UP — had called the bluff of the dominant jats. This was a watershed moment. Observers called it "righting of the demographics" — 3.6% of UP's population that had appeared so disproportionately large because of its social clout, had been found out.

Not that the community was any less helpless in Rajasthan and Haryana where it has more impressive numbers. In 2009, jats declared war on Ashok Gehlot's Congress government in Rajasthan. Yet Congress won the state and parliamentary polls without much sweat. So did Congress in successive Haryana polls against jat leader of standing OP Chautala heading INLD.

For a good decade, jats raised the pitch to regain relevance in their strongholds but were shown up, their political chip in a tailspin. Come 2014 and the wheels seem to be turning again. Once again, there's a jat buzz — they're dominating headlines, political parties are lining up to placate them like UPA granting them national OBC status. They're being talked about as a swing bloc that can shape fortunes in Rajasthan, Delhi, Haryana and West UP.

Between their marginalization and return to centre stage lies, as ironic as it is tragic, the Muzaffarnagar riots.

"The riots caught the imagination of the political class (BJP, RLD and Congress)," Jawaharlal Nehru University sociologist Vivek Kumar explains. He seems to be alluding to the reason that made jats enjoy outsized importance postindependence — the ability to "influence" voting of communities lower in the social or economic order.

The riots showed jats turning against the historical religious mix of west UP villages. If Jats and Muslims are antagonistic, the "secular" RLD that polls both blocs together crumbles. It provides an opening to BJP that thrives on religious consolidation.

No wonder, BJP toasted its leaders accused of engineering the clashes. The "secular" RLD sought an antidote in "job quotas" to quell Jat anger. The rush for Jat attention brought the community back from oblivion and the community is relishing this newfound salience. It cleverly coupled its grievances against the Centre to the riot debate and RLD chief Ajit Singh pushed "quota" as the corrective. "It's the 'riots cause' and the 'reservation effect'," a leader explained.

Even as the community savours the importance, one cannot help the doubts about their "swing" factor. Experts argue BSP has reworked West UP caste equations irreversibly. Marrying of dalit votes with Muslims, backward groups like Gujjars and the 'most backwards' weaning them away from the traditional Jat grouping has dented the latter's clout.

Sample this: In 2007, 16 Jats were elected to UP assembly. Five years later, after Mayawati worked on social engineering minus Jats, community MLAs were down to 4.

With the Muzaffarnagar riots increasingly seen as limited to Jats, many feel they may not bring the wider Hindu consolidation BJP is banking on. Just as few think the OBC status would soften the community's anti-Congress mood in Delhi and Rajasthan or stop Haryana Jats from rooting for Chautala or BJP.

Therein is the test of Jats this election — of proving their criticality to each group that has invested in them. They know another failure to prove political heft at the hustings may push them down the slope of irrelevance.

 

[samarkadian]

Every constituency has different equations depending upon candidates. There are seats where Jat play a very important role and there are few where they do not have much significance. However, it is true that Jats need to stay united while voting, else non Jat candidates will win.

For example :-

Hisar seat: Here non Jat votes have always been with Bhajanlal. Esp in Bawani Khera, Adampur, Nalwa, Hansi, Hisar City etc. This time also, election will be Vishnoi (non Jat) Vs 3 Jats ( Prof Sampat Singh, xyz Chautala, Yudhbir Singh Khayalia - AAP). Thus, Jat votes are sure to get divided. No one can stop. Likely fate you all know. Still Prof Singh has good chances if Jats of the area show unity and INLD sentimental wave is not built for Chautala (which is not likely to build so easily). Also, if Chautalaz want to come back to power in Haryana - they will need BJP. And for bringing BJP to their fold - they need to defeat Kuldeep Bishnoi... and thus, if they feel so, should help Prof Sampat Singh under the table.

Bhiwani: Shruti Chaudhary is a Jat but has not done anything for the area. Absolutely nothing. INLD is expected to field Jat (can be Abhay as well). And if Dharambir Talu aala also jumps to fray then some Yadav/ Non Jat can do wonders. This is why BJP is still weighing options to field Sudha Yadav OR Gen VK Singh from this seat. As an independent candidate- Dharambir can not get more than 30K votes in LS. He also knows this and thus, will not contest as independent candidate. All his drama is to convince BJP to give him ticket. He doenst want to be in Venod Sharma like situation.

Rohtak : Jats and non Jats - going together with Congress. Comfortable win for Deepender, however, margin might not be like last time. If BJP and INLD put a combined show of strength - I believe the margin can go below 1 lakh. But their coming together seems unlikely.

Valid points Anil.

Lets come to one single point for the sake of some Jathood analysis and screening for our own Bhiwani Mahendergarh seat. Which one from the above lists are anti-jat as per you?

 

[samarkadian]

Congress (RLD) gave reservation and BJP stood by during mzfrnagar roits. It is conspicous that our presence is there. You have a valid point that we are not united when it comes to voting, secondly there is a void when you compare Tau Devilal , Chaudhary Charan Singh or present jat leaders.

Screening base is anti-jat instead of complicated pro-jat Prikishit bhai. Lets say your constituency is Rohtak. How would you approach?

 

[virj]

I am not a big fan of caste based votes but if one has to think strategically then more than congress we should go for INLD. Lot of people believe that muslims vote as a block (this can be debated though). Since independence they are predominantly voting in favour of congress however look at their position now. They are no better than SC may be even worse. In terms of numbers they are far ahead than us. In other worlds they are more important for congress than us. Congress will never please Jats at the cost of Muslims. There are other groups like SC and OBC like yadavs who are traditional vote bank of either regional parties like SP/BSP or they go to Congress. In haryana they go to Congress. Wherever there is a clash between them and Jats there are chances that congress will go with them. We have seen that in Mirchpur where even Smt Gandhi came to visit them and cases were filed against Jats and they were tried in Delhi. Hard to imagine such thing happening under INLD whose existence is solely dependent on Jats.

Even though some people might claim Hooda as a champion of jats but we all know that he cannot go against Congress High command where as INLD has no other high command on their head. Jats were only strong in Haryana because they had option as INLD which other castes don't have. They can form a govt on their own if they want. And if INLD don't win this time then it may never win again. With INLD Jat will lose that deciding power and that is congress's game plan.

 

[anilsangwan]

Bhai,

If you ask me about Bhiwani LS seat and "anti-jat" or "pro-Jat":

1. Shruti - neutral. She has nothing to do with anyone. Her mother was quoted saying in Mayyar - " What is Jat - Non-Jat ?". Cosmopolitan si sein maa-beti. Kala Chasma lagaaye paachhe unn ne aadmi - aadmi dikhta ho ya nahi - iss baat pe bhi shaq s menne..

2. Dharambir - Again nothing significant to his kitty to call him pro-Jat or anti-Jat. You can call him neutral. He has his own agenda to make Janata fool. Apne faayde khatir lathh ke sodd baandhe haande s... Bhiwani ki ya Jaaton ki isi tisi nahi kari talu aale ne...

3. VK Singh - Not pro-Jat for sure. You know this.

4. Sudha Yadav - not pro-Jat for sure. In fact I consider no Yadav as pro Jat.

5. xyz Chautala - I believe he is again Neutral. Neither they provided reservation nor they are against it. But they have lost oppty in the past. However, if you go by the jobs they gave to Jats and esp in Bhiwani in the past - ranks higher than Shruti in my opinion.

Aur koye candidate Bhiwani tein?

So, out of the above - in my opinion - Jats need to shortlist between Shruti and Abhay ( assuming he is that "xyz Chautala" from Bhiwani). However - will revisit once candidates of all the parties are in open. As I said ealier - combination may change anytime.

Valid points Anil.

Lets come to one single point for the sake of some Jathood analysis and screening for our own Bhiwani Mahendergarh seat. Which one from the above lists are anti-jat as per you?

 

[rathiji]

Message to the high command should be loud and clear.


Otherwise we would loose our relevance as a community that matters.

Jats should be high command in their respective party not just a leader on mercy of another high command. The examples of Ch. Charan Singh & Devilal proves that. If caste is the only factor in politics & to decide vote then the party should be of Jats, from Jats & with Jats, then we can negotiate with any party's high command.

 

[samarkadian]

I am not a big fan of caste based votes but if one has to think strategically then more than congress we should go for INLD. Lot of people believe that muslims vote as a block (this can be debated though). Since independence they are predominantly voting in favour of congress however look at their position now. They are no better than SC may be even worse. In terms of numbers they are far ahead than us. In other worlds they are more important for congress than us. Congress will never please Jats at the cost of Muslims. There are other groups like SC and OBC like yadavs who are traditional vote bank of either regional parties like SP/BSP or they go to Congress. In haryana they go to Congress. Wherever there is a clash between them and Jats there are chances that congress will go with them. We have seen that in Mirchpur where even Smt Gandhi came to visit them and cases were filed against Jats and they were tried in Delhi. Hard to imagine such thing happening under INLD whose existence is solely dependent on Jats.

Even though some people might claim Hooda as a champion of jats but we all know that he cannot go against Congress High command where as INLD has no other high command on their head. Jats were only strong in Haryana because they had option as INLD which other castes don't have. They can form a govt on their own if they want. And if INLD don't win this time then it may never win again. With INLD Jat will lose that deciding power and that is congress's game plan.

Ch Omprakash Chautala is often propagated as 36 biradari ka neta in all the gratifies. Strategically he never uttered a word for Jat reservation. On what basis we as a community can feel secure with INLD supremo. ? Hooda is a way championed jats by going out of the way to grant reservation to jats in SBC and conntinously pressing central govt for it.

Let me press some button about INLD even being against Jats. Meham Kaand, Kandela Kaand, Kadma Kaand, Amir Singh. etc etc.

Few days their Rajya Sabha MP Mr Gangwa which is a kumhar was stating that his party is in favour of Economic based reservation. I am not sure how would you take that as pro-jat.

 

[samarkadian]

Jats should be high command in their respective party not just a leader on mercy of another high command. The examples of Ch. Charan Singh & Devilal proves that. If caste is the only factor in politics & to decide vote then the party should be of Jats, from Jats & with Jats.

Sumit, I think the context of Narender Ji's post is irrespective to the party. Yes caste is ''a'' big factor among other ones. Had it not been, most party won't have fielded that caste candidates. A Jat party at national level is still a dream though.

 

[virj]

Where was Hooda during Mirchpur when Madam and Son were visiting SC ? Did he utter a word? How can you feel secure under him? Think ahead of reservation. What benefit Muslims got from Congress? They only got poorer and more backward. By the way what is wrong with economic based reservation?

Only a novice disclose his cards too early.

 

[anilsangwan]

Yes, Chautala senior always tried to play safe on Jat reservation front and it will cost his party dear. Economy based reservation, though can do wonders, but is not practically possible in Indian context. If not much this time, then for sure in future as people will realize the benefits of OBC caste based status with time.

However, calling him Anti-Jat because of Meham Kaand or Kandela Kaand or Kadma Kaand ( btw it happened during Bhajan Lal regime - pls correct your facts) etc is not right to decide whether he is anti-jat or not. Reservation issue only comes under that category.

For that matter - even Bansilal ordered firing in Mandhiali ( Satnali) and several farmers were killed - he can not be called anti Jat purely on the basis of this.

Ch Omprakash Chautala is often propagated as 36 biradari ka neta in all the gratifies. Strategically he never uttered a word for Jat reservation. On what basis we as a community can feel secure with INLD supremo. ? Hooda is a way championed jats by going out of the way to grant reservation to jats in SBC and conntinously pressing central govt for it.

Let me press some button about INLD even being against Jats. Meham Kaand, Kandela Kaand, Kadma Kaand, Amir Singh. etc etc.

Few days their Rajya Sabha MP Mr Gangwa which is a kumhar was stating that his party is in favour of Economic based reservation. I am not sure how would you take that as pro-jat.

 

[rathiji]

Ch Omprakash Chautala is often propagated as 36 biradari ka neta in all the gratifies. Strategically he never uttered a word for Jat reservation. On what basis we as a community can feel secure with INLD supremo. ? Hooda is a way championed jats by going out of the way to grant reservation to jats in SBC and conntinously pressing central govt for it.

Let me press some button about INLD even being against Jats. Meham Kaand, Kandela Kaand, Kadma Kaand, Amir Singh. etc etc.

Few days their Rajya Sabha MP Mr Gangwa which is a kumhar was stating that his party is in favour of Economic based reservation. I am not sure how would you take that as pro-jat.

If your discussion starts with a decision that Congress is a pro-Jat party, Hooda is only pro-Jat leader & reservation is only a pro-Jat courtesy then is there any point in giving facts about others being pro-Jat or not.

 

[rathiji]

Sumit, I think the context of Narender Ji's post is irrespective to the party. Yes caste is ''a'' big factor among other ones. Had it not been, most party won't have fielded that caste candidates. A Jat party at national level is still a dream though.

Was INLD a national party, or BLD or JDS ? Chaudhary sahab & Tau both became PM & D.PM respectively. Those were the glories of Jat leadership not Hooda. Let me see if in history we would remember Devilal/Charan Singh more or Hooda being a pro-Jat leader.

 

[samarkadian]

Where was Hooda during Mirchpur when Madam and Son were visiting SC ? Did he utter a word? How can you feel secure under him? Think ahead of reservation. What benefit Muslims got from Congress? They only got poorer and more backward. By the way what is wrong with economic based reservation?

Only a novice disclose his cards too early.

Nothing wrong but good only in theory. Highly unrealistic in implementation.

Mirchpur ploy was more of Shailja's if you look closely. It was not on Hooda's invitation they came over. However I am not advocating him on Mirchpur. But don;t you think reservation is going to help millions of the Jat youth ? If such thing is that benefitial what is the need of think beyond it.

 

[virj]

Remember When SC/ST were under congress they were weak they only become stronger under Mayavati. Now they are a force which no one can ignore.