जिन्होंने हिंदू धर्म को त्यागा...

[abhikrana]

Despite my repeated requests you have not come out with a clear cut REPLY.

You talk about difference of opinion. Is cursing and abusing the faith called 'difference of opinion'?

I have till now NOT heard of any solutions or reforms from either you or the people you so vociferously defend here. Is it wise to unnecessarily abuse and curse your religion or do something about it????? For you it is ok if people continuously keep abusing it without themselves doing anything to improve it.

Despite repeated clarifications from my side, you are continuously pointing a finger at me that I am ordering people to leave the Hindu fold. I am repeating here with the hope that you do not intentionally ignore what I said earlier - I am no one to remove anyone from the Hindu fold. It was only a suggestion to a few Hindu people who are so fed up with the Hindu trap that they have to spend their lifetime cursing it instead of doing something about it. They would do themselves a favour if they converted to a picture perfect religion of their choice. Then they would have nothing to curse or abuse and they can then live their lives happily ever after. I am also happy to know that some of the people have stopped mentioning Hinduism as their religion because they are not happy with it. In fact I truly respect such people because if they do not like something they will not carry it on their heads all their lives and yet keep cursing it.

But I am sure, you would again ignore the above point because it seems you do not have any reply to any of the points raised by me earlier. You would still say that what is wrong with the abuse and cursing?????

Well, even I have no problems with that. It's just that it shows the hypocrisy of the people who indulge in that. It seems more of a time pass for them.

I am neither supporting view points of other participants nor opposing yours but am trying to convince you that if some people seek changes in the present state of affairs in which our Hindu Dharma has been pushed by some vested interests, they have a right to raise their voice. In the same way you have a right to give logical reply to their criticism instead of asking them to leave the Hindu Dharma.

None of the members is for maligning the ages old Hindu Dharma but some of the adherent feel that some illogical things are happening in the name of service of Hinduism. Hence there are a number of thread discussions under progress.

Instead of listening to logic or replying with reasoned posts, you straightaway ask the participants either to leave the fold of Hindu Dharma or take the law in their hands and throw the erring 'Babas' away or ask what they have done in the field of reformation of Hinduism ! Have you ever introspected before putting all these hard hitting ideas against the participants, if not so far, kindly do it now, think with cool and composed mind and then answers you expect from others will come to you automatically from your within.

What does this state of affairs show, you want either participants remain mum and go on listening unreasonable things being said by a few or quit Hinduism.

Looking at this messy state of affairs, I reluctantly involved myself in the discussion the other day to sort out the illogical points being given undue weight by a few but regretfully you are not ready to listen to reason hence I have preferred not to join issue with you.

I think you need to distinguish what is difference between opposition and difference of opinion on some issue.

Difference of opinion on given issues is not always bad. Rather it is the very soul of intellectual discussion and progress.

Thanks and wish you all the best as well as enjoy fruitful discussion based on logic and reasoning.

 

[upendersingh]

कुछ लोगो ने रट लगा रखी हैं की इस धर्म से इतनी ही तकलीफ हैं तो छोड़ क्यों नहीं देते | आप को किसने बताया की हम इस धर्म मे हैं ? मैं तो हरगिज नहीं | जनगणना मे भी अपना धर्म जाटिज्म लिखवाया था और इसके लिए कमांडेंट साहब ने प्रैस नोट भी दिया था की जाट अपना धर्म जटिज्म लिखवाए , जो सिर्फ कुछ अखबारो मे ही आया वो भी सिर्फ भिवानी के अंक मे | अभी तो इसकी शुरुआत की हैं अगले जनगणना तक पता कर लेना कितने जाट अपना धर्म जाटिज्म लिखवाते हैं |
"कुछ हमारे संग चले आएंगे
कुछ देख कर रंग ढंग चले आएंगे
बाकी जो बचे हो कर तंग चले आएंगे "

:- बाकी जो बचे वाली यह आखिरी लाइन शखों के लिए हैं

अब तो नाम वाली भी समस्या नहीं रही की यह तो हिन्दू नाम हैं क्योंकि उपेंद्र जी ने हमारी यह शंका भी दूर कर दी हैं की नाम के आधार पर धर्म नहीं हैं :applause:

जनाब, फिर नाम अकेला ही होना चाहिए और उसके आगे न कोई गौत्र और न अन्य कुछ लगा होना चाहिए।
बाकी जाट धर्म की स्थापना 28 जून 2010 को आदरणीय कर्नल फ़तेह सिंह खर्ब ने की थी, जिसका यहां सबूत मौजूद है। यदि आप ऐसा कोई सबूत प्रस्तुत कर दें (अखबार में छपी खबर जैसा कुछ) कि जाट धर्म की स्थापना इससे भी पहले आदरणीय कमांडेंट सांगवान ने या अन्य किसी ने की थी तो फिर श्रेय कर्नल खर्ब को नहीं, बल्कि कमांडेंट सांगवान साहब को या जिसने ऐसा किया, उसे जाएगा।

 

[prashantacmet]

My two cents ..

Stop weeping and crying..

Topic was about downfall of those who left Hinduism ......and you are crying why people are not giving suggestions about improvement of Hindu/Bahmanic religion.

Brother First get facts correct Jats have not been a part of this religion which was dictated by bahmans we followed Buddha ...so why should we bother about improving or not improving it ?

when our traditions of widow remarriage are looked down Our profession agriculture is included in lower varna our people are treated lower to other hindus like brahmans why should we bother to improve it.

First you must ask Hindu Priests and pandits whether they think Jats are Hindus ?

Kharb sahb!...."aandhe ke saamhi rona arr apni aankh phodna"...

you can not win by "logic"...hahahhha........ because there is no logic at all in front..and you will be trapped to discuss logically. carefully read the counter logics, check the history knowledge and you will see the depth. Ignore all fanatic, mediocre, shallow-minded "mullahs"!

 

[prashantacmet]

Is it not just blabbering. I just said 'opportunist' to you and you said 'koop mandook', 'shallow minded', 'frustrated who need to be saved' and what not to me. It seems you were already filled up to explode. I many times note something is abnormal with you.

Good! I seem abnormal and opportunistic to you..and you are a "shallow-minded", "logical but no logic" and "koop-mandook" for me...so what the fuss and what was the need to quote a post of an 'abnormal" person if you had already noted the abnormality?
anyway,Leave it!
so now I live with my opinion and you live with yours or as per your "pet " logic we can see what majority thinks?...what about a JL poll or something like that :singing:?

If someone add 'Ji' to your name, you say you don't deserve respect so don't do so.

because I think there are many other persons here who need it more.."yeh dil maage more"....For example, you need it more because you have done "tapasya " in your life and old friends of JL are aware of your "tap" and "sacrifice". You also keep asking from others what special they have done ?..All are not great like you "upender JI"..

shame to you and you are a shallow minded person, not me

Ok..thanks ! so now I am opportunistic, abnormal and shallow-mind as well :applause:

 

[raka]

जनाब, फिर नाम अकेला ही होना चाहिए और उसके आगे न कोई गौत्र और न अन्य कुछ लगा होना चाहिए।
बाकी जाट धर्म की स्थापना 28 जून 2010 को आदरणीय कर्नल फ़तेह सिंह खर्ब ने की थी, जिसका यहां सबूत मौजूद है। यदि आप ऐसा कोई सबूत प्रस्तुत कर दें (अखबार में छपी खबर जैसा कुछ) कि जाट धर्म की स्थापना इससे भी पहले आदरणीय कमांडेंट सांगवान ने या अन्य किसी ने की थी तो फिर श्रेय कर्नल खर्ब को नहीं, बल्कि कमांडेंट सांगवान साहब को या जिसने ऐसा किया, उसे जाएगा।

अच्छा गोत्र से आदमी के धर्म का संबंध हैं तो !! मैंने तो समझा था आप नाम से धर्म का संबंध मानते हैं ! किते तो टिक ...जम्मा ए पंडो जैसा हो लिया बिना तली का ...
कमाडेंट साहब या कर्नल खरब साहब दोनों के इस मामले मे विचार एक ही हैं तो फिर श्रेय का मसला ही नहीं | मसला तो शंखो का हैं ....

 

[raka]

आज जीत ताखर पर ध्यान गया तो मुझे याद आया की जीत पहले अपने गोत्र ताखर की जगह मेहता लिखता था | हालांकि मैंने तो आज तक मेहता गोत्र जाटों मे कभी नहीं सुना , यदि ऐसा हैं तो कृप्या उस गाँव की जानकारी दे | वैसे मेहता शरणार्थी पंजाबियों मे होते हैं | जाटों मे कुछ लोग नाम के आगे चोपड़ा लगाते हैं जैसे की हरियाणा के भूतपूर्व मुख्यमंत्री हुड्डा साहब के ओएसडी श्री महेंद्र सिंह चोपड़ा , जबकि महेंद्र सिंह चोपड़ा जी का गोत्र गोयत हैं , चोपड़ा इसलिए लिखते हैं क्योंकि गाँव मे उनकी पट्टी को चोपड़ा पट्टी बोला जाता हैं सो उन्होने नाम के आगे चोपड़ा लिखना शुरू कर दिया | भाई जीत ताखर जी से निवेदन हैं की इस विषय पर थोड़ा प्रकाश डाले |
इस निजी सवाल के लिए मैं मोडेर्टरों से क्षमा चाहूँगा , पर सवाल हैं काम का और कृप्या इसे किसी कटाक्ष के रूप मे ना लें !

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Despite my repeated requests you have not come out with a clear cut REPLY...............

Friend,

I have nothing new to add to what I have written so far to clarify the issue involved and you are bent upon not to understand the writ on the wall !

I have suggested one reform, free Hindu Dharma from the clutches of vested interests like some self styled gods ! First do it, if you can, then other steps would be taken up when you are free from handling this problem.

Meanwhile the only way open for me is to : Hail thy victory over me won on the basis of thy adamant stand not to listen to the logical arguments advanced !!

Cheers, enjoy the victory !!!

 

[upendersingh]

अच्छा गोत्र से आदमी के धर्म का संबंध हैं तो !! मैंने तो समझा था आप नाम से धर्म का संबंध मानते हैं ! किते तो टिक ...जम्मा ए पंडो जैसा हो लिया बिना तली का ...
कमाडेंट साहब या कर्नल खरब साहब दोनों के इस मामले मे विचार एक ही हैं तो फिर श्रेय का मसला ही नहीं | मसला तो शंखो का हैं ....

क्यूं नाज के बल की धिकावै है जनाब। वे जितने भी नक्सलियों के नाम लिखे थे तै (अगढ़ी, तोखू, तिलोका अर और भी कई सारे), उनके नाम के आगै कौनसे गोत्र लग रे थे...तेरे हिसाब तै तो गोकुला, जवाहरमल, तेगबहादुर...सब पंडों के शंख थे, जिन्होंने हिंदू धर्म की भलाई के लिए अपना सब कुछ झोंक दिया...अगर अपने धर्म-ईमान नै कोसणा ही असली जाट होने की निशानी है तो ऐसा जाटिज्म आप नै ही मुबारक हो...मेरे जैसी सोच के जाट यहां भी बहुत हैं अर और कहीं भी बहुत हैं...

 

[cooljat]

श्रीमान राका जी,


आप से आग्रह है की - 'प्लीज डोन्ट गेट पर्सनल '!
वैसे मेरा आपको एक्सप्लेनेशन देने का कोई मन नहीं है लेकिन फिर भी आपकी ग़लतफहमी दूर करना चाहूँगा।
मेहता सरनेम एक यूनिवर्सल सरनेम है जैसे की सिंह, कुमार, वर्मा, शास्त्री, आर्य इत्यादि..
एण्ड फॉर योउर इन्फो - चोपड़ा एक कॉमन जाट गोत्र है राजस्थान में जैसे की हरयाणा में खत्री!

http://www.jatland.com/home/Chopda


होप इट क्लिअर्स योर इग्नोरेंस !!


चियर्स
जीत

आज जीत ताखर पर ध्यान गया तो मुझे याद आया की जीत पहले अपने गोत्र ताखर की जगह मेहता लिखता था | हालांकि मैंने तो आज तक मेहता गोत्र जाटों मे कभी नहीं सुना , यदि ऐसा हैं तो कृप्या उस गाँव की जानकारी दे | वैसे मेहता शरणार्थी पंजाबियों मे होते हैं | जाटों मे कुछ लोग नाम के आगे चोपड़ा लगाते हैं जैसे की हरियाणा के भूतपूर्व मुख्यमंत्री हुड्डा साहब के ओएसडी श्री महेंद्र सिंह चोपड़ा , जबकि महेंद्र सिंह चोपड़ा जी का गोत्र गोयत हैं , चोपड़ा इसलिए लिखते हैं क्योंकि गाँव मे उनकी पट्टी को चोपड़ा पट्टी बोला जाता हैं सो उन्होने नाम के आगे चोपड़ा लिखना शुरू कर दिया | भाई जीत ताखर जी से निवेदन हैं की इस विषय पर थोड़ा प्रकाश डाले |
इस निजी सवाल के लिए मैं मोडेर्टरों से क्षमा चाहूँगा , पर सवाल हैं काम का और कृप्या इसे किसी कटाक्ष के रूप मे ना लें !

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Friends

Kindly refrain from posting comments/views that are, defamatory or inflammatory, and avoid indulging in personal attacks or inciting hatred against any community.

Thanks

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, my question to you and to the others that you so vehemently support and defend here is what have you done in your personal capacity to reform????? Nothing except cursing, criticism and abusing.


As far as the self styled Godmen are concerned, law of the land is doing its job very well. Asa Ram went to jail followed by Rampal. If more of these God men do any wrong even they will be put in the Jail.


I am not here to claim any victory over you or any other person. BUT YOU FOR SURE HAVE TAKEN SWEET REVENGE BY CLOSING MY THREAD - CONGRESS GREATEST THREAT TO HINDU RELIGION. This thread is very much relevant, but then you are vested with the power of the moderator. You can afford to get personal with whoever you like. By this action of yours you have proved MIGHT IS RIGHT.

Friend, I have nothing new to add to what I have written so far to clarify the issue involved and you are bent upon not to understand the writ on the wall ! I have suggested one reform, free Hindu Dharma from the clutches of vested interests like some self styled gods ! First do it, if you can, then other steps would be taken up when you are free from handling this problem.Meanwhile the only way open for me is to : Hail thy victory over me won on the basis of thy adamant stand not to listen to the logical arguments advanced !!Cheers, enjoy the victory !!!

 

[samarkadian]

Sir, my question to you and to the others that you so vehemently support and defend here is what have you done in your personally capacity to reform????? Nothing except for cursing, criticism and abusing.As far as the self styled Godmen are concerned, law of the land is doing its job very well. Asa Ram went to jail followed by Rampal. If more of these God men do any wrong even they will be put in the Jail.I am not here to claim any victory over you or any other person. BUT YOU FOR SURE HAVE TAKEN SWEET REVENGE BY CLOSING MY THREAD - CONGRESS GREATEST THREAT TO HINDU RELIGION. This thread is very much relevant, but then you are vested with the power of the moderator. You can afford to get personal with whoever you like. By this action of yours you have proved MIGHT IS RIGHT.

Abhik Bhai,

Dr Rajpal can be accused of getting personal but anything. And anyone can start the thread of any magnitude here. If that thread and subject is relevant then start a new one and if you care abt the same content, Dr rajpal himself started a new thread on the same theme about congress. Please Don't whine that much. Threads and posts are not bigger than brethren.

 

[abhikrana]

Samar bhai, some things shout for attention no matter how subtly one might act.

If a new thread on the same topic was to be started why was the earlier one closed when the topic is relevant?

By getting personal, how many threads would one close?

Who am I to whine????? I am just an ORDINARY member, NOT a moderator after all!! A member whose voice can be muzzled if it goes against the whims of the high and mighty (moderator).

Abhik Bhai,

Dr Rajpal can be accused of getting personal but anything. And anyone can start the thread of any magnitude here. If that thread and subject is relevant then start a new one and if you care abt the same content, Dr rajpal himself started a new thread on the same theme about congress. Please Don't whine that much. Threads and posts are not bigger than brethren.

 

[swaich]

Its pointless to ask what he or she has done. We are here engaging in a discussion. Is that not doing enough? Is debating, sharing thoughts, opinions,understanding different points of view and building a consensus not counted as a contribution to society?

And even if someone says they have done A or B, will that satisfy the enquirer? Or will then proofs be required?

Lets use logic and arguments that make sense instead of saying "do something before pointing out flaws".

 

[mandeep333]

Friends
May I ask you who gave you religion and gotras? You never choose these. These are actually hereditary. Yes as we grow we may change "religion " but changing gotras is extremely difficult sometimes. Similarly in India can one change castes?
I believe these are matters which have backings of society aquired over time immemorial. Besides this often we treat them with emotions and sentiments.

 

[narenderkharb]

Who am I to whine????? I am just an ORDINARY member, NOT a moderator after all!! A member whose voice can be muzzled if it goes against the whims of the high and mighty (moderator).

Emotinal... Atyaachaar.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

................ I am just an ORDINARY member, NOT a moderator after all!! A member whose voice can be muzzled if it goes against the whims of the high and mighty (moderator).

Friend,

There is nothing wrong in aspiring to be or not to act as moderator/editor/administration.

If you aspire to be a moderator, kindly approach the site management !

But, presently resist the temptation of alleging other moderators in the best interest of all concerned !!

Thanks.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Samar bhai, some things shout for attention no matter how subtly one might act.

If a new thread on the same topic was to be started why was the earlier one closed when the topic is relevant?

By getting personal, how many threads would one close?

..........................

The thread has been closed temporarily in view of the fact that instead of the relevant posts to theme, unrelated mostly personal accusations and counter accusations appeared in fairly a large number of posts.

If you have some substantial to contribute about the theme and participants are ready to adhere to the theme of the thread and follow site policy not to allege/counter allege members come up, thread is waiting re-opening as promised in the closing post earlier !

The thread started by me on the Congress debacles in recent elections is not on the topic of the earlier thread started by you, kindly read and see - both are altogether different !

Hence your allegation of partisanship/high handedness or becoming personal [against anyone] does not hold substance if you care to understand difference between the two !

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Are all Hindu Saints of today ready to listen to and act according to the clarion call made by the author of 'What is Hinduism' :
'
''EXHORTATION TO SADHUS AND SANNYASINS

O Sadhus, Sannyasins, Yogis and Brahmacharins who have attained success in Sadhana!

This is my earnest prayer to you all. You will have to come now from your retreats to serve humanity. You need not take any active part in any movement. You can remain like Samartha Ramdas. Ramdas gave wise counsels to Shivaji. Shivaji drew inspiration from his Guru. He hoisted the Gerua banner and did all the work. Ramdas’s presence was the source of strength to Shivaji. Even so, you can give moral instructions and good counsels to people. You can guide them and give them words of encouragement. You can do everything that is best calculated to unite the nation. As you have no attachment to anybody and as you are endowed with spiritual powers, you can work wonders. You say that the world is your body. In your discourses you say that the whole world is your sweet home—Vasudhaiva Kutumbakam. Please show this in action. Kindly put this into practice. Become practical Vedantins.

May the Eternal Dharma be preserved for ever. May all the citizens be consolidated by the bond of true love. May all work together for the well-being and solidarity of the country. May all prosper gloriously both in the material and spiritual planes.''

If not all some of the points can be followed by us also if we want to serve the Hindu dharma in our day to day life without causing any harm to it ! Are there some takers .....
'

 

[rkhatkar]

The thread has been closed temporarily in view of the fact that instead of the relevant posts to theme, unrelated mostly personal accusations and counter accusations appeared in fairly a large number of posts.

If you have some substantial to contribute about the theme and participants are ready to adhere to the theme of the thread and follow site policy not to allege/counter allege members come up, thread is waiting re-opening as promised in the closing post earlier !

The thread started by me on the Congress debacles in recent elections is not on the topic of the earlier thread started by you, kindly read and see - both are altogether different !

Hence your allegation of partisanship/high handedness or becoming personal [against anyone] does not hold substance if you care to understand difference between the two !

Indian National Congress in the Downhill Mode - Would it regain Lost Glory
[h=1]Congress: Greatest Threat to Hindu Religion and India[/h]
Always easy leveling allegations; but proportionate difficult to remain otherwise neutral.

The decision of Dr Rajpal Singh was slightly late, even the thread deserved the fate much earlier. The new topic spells a healthy and normal invitation of expression whereas the previous one seemed to invite and endorse the decided/declared thread heading as opinion of each; supporting as well as opposing participants.

Thanks