Sorry not Hindus ...Religion of Jats

[abhikrana]

And what did the so called majority Jats achieve by adopting Sikhism????

Is Sikhism equal or equivalent to Jatism????

Do Jats enjoy a special status or position as per Guru Granth Sahib in Sikhism????

What special status you want in Hinduism????

How is our way of living close to principles of Sikhism???? Please elaborate.

Bahio jitni Marji apney ney Hindu keh lo, Hum Hindu Koni! Na there is any identity for us in Hindu religion. That's the reason majority of Jats embraced Sikhism and have a separate identity! Our way of living is more Vedic and close to principles of Sikhism!

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, With all due respect to you, respect is two way street and not a one way street. Upender has not shown any disrespect to any member.

What I predict is they are going to declare themselves as Vedic Dharmis different from from Brahmanical or Sanatani version of Hinduism and later who knows we may see rise of a Jat Dharam.

मेरा ख्याल है जाट धर्म के संस्थापक आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब अपने अनुयायी जाटों को सही मार्ग दिखाएंगे...

Mr Kharb has no where taken credit to start JAT Dharm, it’s the interpreter who has made the sense in his own way. The words ‘I predict'and ‘later who Knows'used in the sentence in question have their separate sense. Further, Mr Kharb has shown patience on the issue. All expect proper respect words from fellow members.

Thanks

 

[ygulia]

It will be better if you talk about yourselves. I do not think you have any right to talk on behalf of Jat Community as whole.

Bahio jitni Marji apney ney Hindu keh lo, Hum Hindu Koni! Na there is any identity for us in Hindu religion. That's the reason majority of Jats embraced Sikhism and have a separate identity! Our way of living is more Vedic and close to principles of Sikhism!

 

[upendersingh]

Aap Hindu dharma kee vartamaan halaat per koi tippni kare to use Hindu Dharma chhodne kee salah dete rahate hain ! Abhi 'Jat Dharma' naam ka koi sangthan bana bhi nahin to wohi baat aap yahan kah rahe ho, isliya mujhe uprokat tippani karane ko mazboor hona pada !! Friend, Yah baat to aap bi manenge kee Shreya dena alag baat hai aur bahar ka rashta batane ki slah dena alag baat hai ! Baaki Shri Karb ko aap kya dete hain aur woh aap se kya lete hain woh aap donon behatr jano !

जिन्हें हिंदू धर्म में तमाम बुराइयां नजर आती हैं, उन्हें ऐसा कहने में क्या गलत है कि ऐसा है तो फिर हिंदू धर्म छोड़ दो...? यदि खर्ब साहब ने कोई आइडिया दिया है तो उनको श्रेय मिलना चाहिए...मैं तो उन्हें शुभकामनाएं देता हूं।

 

[upendersingh]

​ अनुज उपेंदर का अघाद प्रेम व श्रद्दा देख कर मेरा हर्दय गद गद हो गया​ है! , जहाँ तक जाट धरम का विषय है वो किसी की बपोती नहीं है जो कोई किसी को उसमे शामिल करे या निकल सके ,जाट धरम तो हर उस जाट का है जिसने brahmanical हिंदूइस्म को नहीं अपनाया! मुझे लगता है पंज प्यारो की तरह जाट धरम में पहला कन्वर्शन उपेंदर भाई जी करना पड़ेगा!

आदरणीय खर्ब साहब, जब आपने जाट धर्म की नींव रख ही दी है तो फिर दूसरे धर्मों की नक़ल हर्गिज न कीजिएगा। सिख धर्म में जाटों की हैसियत महज सेवकों की है और संख्या बल भी 20 % के आस-पास ही है। फिर 500 साल बीतने पर भी महज 3 करोड़ लोगों ने ही सिख धर्म को अपनाया। आपके द्वारा स्थापित जाट धर्म में तो अभी उंगलियों पर गिनने लायक ही अनुयायी हैं। वैसे आपको बधाई हो कि जाट धर्म में पहला क्या, दूसरा और तीसरा कनवर्जन भी हो चुका है। मैं प्रमाण दे सकता हूं। जहां तक मेरा सवाल है तो मैं अभी 'देखो और इंतजार करो' की नीति अपनाए हुए हूं और अभी मैंने इस बारे में सोचना भी शुरू नहीं किया, क्योंकि मुझे एक संदेह यह भी है कि यदि जाट धर्म को मानने वालों ने अपने इस धर्म को बढ़ाने के सतत प्रयास नहीं किए तो कहीं ऐसा न हो कि इस जाट धर्म का हश्र भी सम्राट अकबर के दीन-ए-इलाही और राजा महेंद्र प्रताप के प्रेम धर्म की तरह न हो कि बस संस्थापक ही अनुयायी बनकर रह जाए या बस उंगली पर लोग ही अनुयायी बनें।

 

[upendersingh]

What I predict is they are going to declare themselves as Vedic Dharmis different from from Brahmanical or Sanatani version of Hinduism and later who knows we may see rise of a Jat Dharam.

मेरा ख्याल है जाट धर्म के संस्थापक आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब अपने अनुयायी जाटों को सही मार्ग दिखाएंगे... Mr Kharb has no where taken credit to start JAT Dharm, it’s the interpreter who has made the sense in his own way. The words ‘I predict'and ‘later who Knows'used in the sentence in question have their separate sense. Further, Mr Kharb has shown patience on the issue. All expect proper respect words from fellow members. Thanks

Respected Khatkar Ji, suppose if in a village some honourable Mr. X suggests that the village needs a community centre and who knows in future this dream comes true. Then after some time some honourable Mr. Y says to the villagers that come let's make a community centre and then villagers start joining the campaign. Then can Mr. X's suggestion be avoided? He gave the idea. He began the campaign. He is the reason behind all this. Now its his followers' duty to promote his idea further so that other people can associate themselves with it. That's what I meant.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

I had put the following question/s before the readers for discussion:

Could anybody throw light on the social standing of Jats in the Hindu society today as per caste code prescribed by Manu and followed by us on the following two points, please:

Is the standing of Jats in the Hindu society equal to DWIJS or Sudras as per code of Manu and why it is so or to say what makes them to be counted among the dwijs or sudras and if not, then why not ?

or in other words, are they accepted as equal to Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas or sudras. and; why they are considered to belong to one group and not to the other group !

Kindly extend help to solve the puzzle and oblige.

And received back, instead of reply to any of them, another wonderful bunch of questions in the form of the post quoted below :

Sir,

Please elaborate how does being a Jat according to you puts you at a disadvantage in the present day scheme of things?

1. Are you not allowed to apply for any job?
2. Are you stopped from applying to any educational course?
3. Are Jats stopped from visiting temples?
4. Are Jats not allowed to celebrate festivals?

How are Jats treated as Shudras in the present day?

Find for yourselves how the topic is being twisted to suit the convenience of the protagonists of one stream of Hinduism which tries to keep the Brahmanical hegemony on the society intact !

In all fairness of rules of discussion either the answer to the questions raised may be addressed or those points which I have not said and put here in my name, must be withdrawn.

 

[upendersingh]

Could anybody throw light on the social standing of Jats in the Hindu society today as per caste code prescribed by Manu and followed by us on the following two points, please:

Is the standing of Jats in the Hindu society equal to DWIJS or Sudras as per code of Manu and why it is so or to say what makes them to be counted among the dwijs or sudras and if not, then why not ?

or in other words, are they accepted as equal to Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas or sudras. and; why they are considered to belong to one group and not to the other group !

Kindly extend help to solve the puzzle and oblige.

Dear friend Dr. Janghu, was Manu a god? Or was Manu Smriti dictated by some divine power? We were under British rule, but we got independence in 1947. In same way there were some evils in Hinduism, but we have got rid of them. Manu Smriti was written as a text presenting itself as a discourse given by Manu, but that is a history now. Why don't you concentrate on constitution of India? According to that the new caste order is : General, OBC, SC and ST. A Manu Smriti is like a gospel truth to you, but you don't believe in constitution, which has also been WRITTEN by someone. And forget that order Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas or Sudras. Come out of pre-independence era. We Jats are in General category, but we want to join OBC and furthermore SC category, but other people have sued us to prove in court that we don't deserve OBC or SC, but we deserve General category. Doesn't any supreme court case matter to you? And one more thing. New caste order is quite perfect. Who are in SC or ST category, they are availing reservation and General and OBC category people want to be in SC/ST. If they are in top category, then they avail less reservation. Now who cares who the rubbish this Manu was?

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, how is the Manu smriti relevant today??? According to Manu smriti society was divided on the basis of the work that members of a particular class did. For example, a cobblers son could only become a cobbler, a barber's son a barber, etc.

But today a cobbler's son is an IAS officer or a Judge and in front of whom people like you and me have to bow. You can no longer call the SC/ST by the names that our ancestors used to call them. It is illegal.

How is Manu smriti relevant today? Your two questions above are not relevant AT ALL in today's context. Instead of highlighting problems of the past which no longer exist we have to focus on the present and the future.

I had put the following question/s before the readers for discussion:



And received back, instead of reply to any of them, another wonderful bunch of questions in the form of the post quoted below :



Find for yourselves how the topic is being twisted to suit the convenience of the protagonists of one stream of Hinduism which tries to keep the Brahmanical hegemony on the society intact !

In all fairness of rules of discussion either the answer to the questions raised may be addressed or those points which I have not said and put here in my name, must be withdrawn.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Sir, how is the Manu smriti relevant today??? According to Manu smriti society was divided on the basis of the work that members of a particular class did. For example, a cobblers son could only become a cobbler, a barber's son a barber, etc.

But today a cobbler's son is an IAS officer or a Judge and in front of whom people like you and me have to bow. You can no longer call the SC/ST by the names that our ancestors used to call them. It is illegal.

How is Manu smriti relevant today? Your two questions above are not relevant AT ALL in today's context. Instead of highlighting problems of the past which no longer exist we have to focus on the present and the future.

You have inadvertently admitted that the system of castes established by Manu on the basis of one's birth in a particular caste, continues as pointed out by you in the example of cobbler's son. This is enough to prove the prevalence of Manuwadi caste system in the present Indian society.

So long this past lingers on to cling to our present social hierarchy the questions posed by me are very much relevant and also the future of coming generations of ours can well be imagined.

So agreed, we must have to focus on the present and the future of the caste system in our beloved Hindu Dharma !

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Dear friend Dr. Janghu, was Manu a god? Or was Manu Smriti dictated by some divine power? We were under British rule, but we got independence in 1947. In same way there were some evils in Hinduism, but we have got rid of them. Manu Smriti was written as a text presenting itself as a discourse given by Manu, but that is a history now. Why don't you concentrate on constitution of India? According to that the new caste order is : General, OBC, SC and ST. A Manu Smriti is like a gospel truth to you, but you don't believe in constitution, which has also been WRITTEN by someone. And forget that order Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas or Sudras. Come out of pre-independence era. We Jats are in General category, but we want to join OBC and furthermore SC category, but other people have sued us to prove in court that we don't deserve OBC or SC, but we deserve General category. Doesn't any supreme court case matter to you? And one more thing. New caste order is quite perfect. Who are in SC or ST category, they are availing reservation and General and OBC category people want to be in SC/ST. If they are in top category, then they avail less reservation. Now who cares who the rubbish this Manu was?

Friend,

I have a little knowledge about Manu and am anxious to learn more about him from the enlightened participants like you by means of joining discussion. Kindly keep up sharing your accumulated knowledge.

You are right in agreeing that the Hindu caste system based on Manu Smiriti has been accorded constitutional validity by incorporating the provision for including certain castes in ST group, others in SC and so on in BC/OBC/SBC etc.etc.

Isn't it so that existing castes constitute this broader categorization of the Hindus under new constitutional provisions !

Whom they refers to in your post: ''If they are in top category, then they avail less reservation. Now who cares who the rubbish this Manu was? "

Another question has arisen in my mind : Do you really believe that Manu or his thought was 'rubbush!'

Thanks and best wishes

 

[drrajpalsingh]

जिन्हें हिंदू धर्म में तमाम बुराइयां नजर आती हैं, उन्हें ऐसा कहने में क्या गलत है कि ऐसा है तो फिर हिंदू धर्म छोड़ दो...? यदि खर्ब साहब ने कोई आइडिया दिया है तो उनको श्रेय मिलना चाहिए...मैं तो उन्हें शुभकामनाएं देता हूं।

Friend,

There is difference between saying full to the brim with Total Evils and pointing out a few shortcomings.

To point out shortcomings is not wrong in a democratic system and the History of the growth and development of what we know and follow today as 'Hinduism' is enough to testify religious reform movements through which it has passed and has assimilated the good points raised from time to time by the reformers.

So kindly try to overcome self created 'iron wall' to protect Hindu dharma and learn the value of democratic discussion in which issues plaguing our Hindu society today that need to be addressed at the earliest to free it from self appointed 'gods' of many hues and colours and many other self appointed guardians who do not permit discussion on various issues !

Thanks

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, where is Manu wadi system prevalent in today's society?????

Who forces a farmer's son to be a farmer, a cobbler's son to be a cobbler, a driver's son to be a driver?????? A farmer's son/daughter is today a doctor, engineer, IAS/IPS.

Manu wadi caste system today???

Why are we focusing on something (Manu wad) which does not exist today?

You have inadvertently admitted that the system of castes established by Manu on the basis of one's birth in a particular caste, continues as pointed out by you in the example of cobbler's son. This is enough to prove the prevalence of Manuwadi caste system in the present Indian society.

So long this past lingers on to cling to our present social hierarchy the questions posed by me are very much relevant and also the future of coming generations of ours can well be imagined.

So agreed, we must have to focus on the present and the future of the caste system in our beloved Hindu Dharma !

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Sir, where is Manu wadi system prevalent in today's society?????

Who forces a farmer's son to be a farmer, a cobbler's son to be a cobbler, a driver's son to be a driver?????? A farmer's son/daughter is today a doctor, engineer, IAS/IPS.

Manu wadi caste system today???

Why are we focusing on something (Manu wad) which does not exist today?

Thanks, I stand enlightened by your unending exhortions to accept what you say and also on my failure to get straight reply to simple questions put to you, so I quit !

Wish you good command on Hinduism in future !

 

[maddhan1979]

There is lot of hue and cry based on religion and other related context.

Let us look how things have progressed by sidelining the main development process by political system using the concept of religion.

Lot of parties taking the shadow of dalits, down trodden, poor people and so on have gathered huge amount of money without even bothering to open a single hospital, free education systems, etc. for the so called dalits, down trodden and poor people.

The fact of the matter is that there are lot of people who are poor, down trodden, etc. but what do they need?

Their basic needs are related with education, housing, health, etc. Throughout ages political parties have created huge monetary empires in the name of these people and other social groups.

Lot of this money is invested by these political parties out of India in name of charities(which are not true charities, its just a way of safeguarding their money), whereas the need of investment by the moto of these political parties which have risen on behalf of downtrodden, poor people should have been for these people in India itself, which never happened.

 

[maddhan1979]

There is lot of hue and cry based on religion and other related context.

Let us look how things have progressed by sidelining the main development process by political system using the concept of religion.

Lot of parties taking the shadow of dalits, down trodden, poor people and so on have gathered huge amount of money without even bothering to open a single hospital, free education systems, etc. for the so called dalits, down trodden and poor people.

The fact of the matter is that there are lot of people who are poor, down trodden, etc. but what do they need?

Their basic needs are related with education, housing, health, etc. Throughout ages political parties have created huge monetary empires in the name of these people and other social groups.

Lot of this money is invested by these political parties out of India in name of charities(which are not true charities, its just a way of safeguarding their money), whereas the need of investment by the moto of these political parties which have risen on behalf of downtrodden, poor people should have been for these people in India itself, which never happened.

If there has been some charity work done it has been done mostly by "Christian Missionaries" by opening schools, etc. Which can be seen throughout the country. Interesting fact is most of these schools impart education based on science, arts, etc. as per the curriculum and are not based on religious ideologies of schools.

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, Your questions might be simple, but are they relevant?

Your questions are based on your perception that the so-called Manu wad is prevalent in the society and is affecting you (community) adversely.

Whereas I say that in today's context, there is no such thing as Manuwad. What reply can there be to your questions when there is no Manuwad existing today.

And that is the reason I had requested you to kindly highlight as to how is Manu smriti or Manu wad affecting you adversely TODAY????? Are you stopped from applying for any jobs or for educational courses? You can study the educational stream of your choice and join a profession of your choice as long as you are intelligent enough to qualify for it. How is Manu wad stopping you????? It is beyond my comprehension.

But if you still insist that your questions are not being answered, I have to admit that they can never be answered because they are based on a premise that does not exist in the first place.

Thanks, I stand enlightened by your unending exhortions to accept what you say and also on my failure to get straight reply to simple questions put to you, so I quit !

Wish you good command on Hinduism in future !

 

[virj]

Sorry not Hindus ...Religion of Jats ?

What does this mean? Some people try to distance themself from being Hindu so they can convniently put all the historic blames on rest of the Hindus. They say they were brave, great but it was Hindus because of whom they were enslaved or some even say they were never enslaved even Mughals were scared of them (They were scared but they still ruled ?)

They want to change the history and hence lots of fake arguments otherwise present they can easily change by converting to some other religion or start their own religion. And first step toward that would be to leave this site who only allow entry to Hindu Jats ?

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Sir, Your questions might be simple, but are they relevant?

Your questions are based on your perception that the so-called Manu wad is prevalent in the society and is affecting you (community) adversely.

Whereas I say that in today's context, there is no such thing as Manuwad. What reply can there be to your questions when there is no Manuwad existing today.

And that is the reason I had requested you to kindly highlight as to how is Manu smriti or Manu wad affecting you adversely TODAY????? Are you stopped from applying for any jobs or for educational courses? You can study the educational stream of your choice and join a profession of your choice as long as you are intelligent enough to qualify for it. How is Manu wad stopping you????? It is beyond my comprehension.

But if you still insist that your questions are not being answered, I have to admit that they can never be answered because they are based on a premise that does not exist in the first place.

What harm do you see in admitting the fact that caste system based on the Manu code is still prevalent in our society and causing a lot of heart burning among the so called upper, middle and lower castes who want to enjoy benefits granted to various castes of Hindu society categorized as SC/ST/OBC etc. but cannot be included in the reservation category due to the reason that they do not fall in the category which specifies that only designated castes can be included. everyone knows that this new type of reservation has one fundamental qualification i.e. the caste of the beneficiary is and other things come later ! If this fundamental fact is not admitted by any person involved in the discussion, then what is the use of go on writing without any rhyme and reason. Reservation based on any other criteria like religion has already been rejected by the highest courts of the land who recognise caste as its main criteria. Isn't so. Then how do you say that there is no impact of Manu code today.

Reservation in India for admissions or in entry for jobs is purely based on caste system and so long this reservation policy continues none can deny presence of the Manu code in Indian Hindu society and also polity !

If I am wrong kindly tell me what is the criterion of our beloved reservation policy caste system or not !

Either one has to admit it or deny it with logical arguments which you do not seem to do either way. That is why I had surrendered my right to involve in the discussion with you !

Even now I want to read what you say on the prevalence of caste system in our beloved Hindu Society and the place of Jats in social hierarchy in it ! Are they considered as equal to Brahmins in the administration of religious affairs and management of temples in India !

 

[drrajpalsingh]

If there has been some charity work done it has been done mostly by "Christian Missionaries" by opening schools, etc. Which can be seen throughout the country. Interesting fact is most of these schools impart education based on science, arts, etc. as per the curriculum and are not based on religious ideologies of schools.

And what about schools and colleges run by DAV Mgt., Santan Dharm Sabha, Jains, Sikhs et all in India and abroad !