जिन्होंने हिंदू धर्म को त्यागा...

[prashantacmet]

What is that idea? Can you quote original text? If there is no religion then how can there be religious text ?

I am a hindu and there is no religious book at least in my house.

and I hardly see any religious book in any Jaat home (Though each and every arya samaji jat keep Satyartha prakash)..

I have read only these religious book

- kuran ( to understand why muslims are so fanatic)
- satyartha prakash ( to understand why arya samazi are so stubborn, just one step away from fanaticism)
- some part of rig vedas ( to understand history -Aryan invasion theory)
- I visit gurudwara, peer-mazaar and church along with temple (though each one of these religious place is visited very infrequently, say at most 2-3 times in a year)

and I don't know what people are going to call me..hindu, Sikh, atheist?

 

[upendersingh]

and I hardly see any religious book in any Jaat home (Though each and every arya samaji jat keep Satyartha prakash)..

I have read only these religious book

- kuran ( to understand why muslims are so fanatic)
- satyartha prakash ( to understand why arya samazi are so stubborn, just one step away from fanaticism)
- some part of rig vedas ( to understand history -Aryan invasion theory)
- I visit gurudwara, peer-mazaar and church along with temple (though each one of these religious place is visited very infrequently, say at most 2-3 times in a year)

and I don't know what people are going to call me..hindu, Sikh, atheist?

Opportunist, but worried and careful for your family.
You visit gurudwara, because you think your many forefathers converted to Sikhism and therefore you have special attachment to Sikhism. You visit peer-mazaar so that in riot like odd situations you can claim before the assailant Muslims that you are not Hindu and you believe in Islam so that they can spare your life. Same fear takes you to the church (as it may work for you if you manage to settle in USA or some other Christian country). But it is all useless, because if the assailant Muslims/Christians ask you to chant some lines of Quran/Bible you will fail. They will ask you to show some identity card and then you will find yourself in trouble, because your name is a Hindu. You don't have the combination of all religions in your name e.g. Mohammad Prashant D'souza. Nor your kids' and other family members' name have such combination (I guess). In documents you never filled that you believe in all religions. You are availing Hinduism, but you don't want to thank it.
Look as far as religion is concerned it doesn't matter what you think, but facts matter. Suppose I believe in my mind that I am lord of this whole universe, then it doesn't matter. Facts say it is not so and I am just an ordinary person. So it doesn't matter what religion you follow in your mind. Facts (your name, your customs/rituals, your other family members' name, mode of marriage, festivals you and your family celebrate, your wearings and many other factors) will tell others what religion you follow. Moreover I also have to say that mostly people don't adopt such names which don't match their religion and therefore if some people do so then they will have to face huge problems. Suppose some Sikh has the name John D'costa, then in his life he will face a lot of problems. Christians will take him to be a Christian what he is not and Sikhs will not take him as a Sikh what he is. His kids will also face big problems. In school when they tell the name of their father all will ask him whether he is a Christian? And when they will tell some Sikh that they are also Sikh then too they will be ridiculed because of their father's name John D'costa.
Actually religions are like big gangs and name gives one identity which gang he/she is associated with. If someone adopts the name of other gang he will certainly face the problems. At least I think so and I know mostly people in the world too think so, therefore I don't care what a fistful people think (in their mind against the visible facts).

 

[arvindc]

and I hardly see any religious book in any Jaat home (Though each and every arya samaji jat keep Satyartha prakash)..

I have read only these religious book

- kuran ( to understand why muslims are so fanatic)
- satyartha prakash ( to understand why arya samazi are so stubborn, just one step away from fanaticism)
- some part of rig vedas ( to understand history -Aryan invasion theory)
- I visit gurudwara, peer-mazaar and church along with temple (though each one of these religious place is visited very infrequently, say at most 2-3 times in a year)

and I don't know what people are going to call me..hindu, Sikh, atheist?

Well, probably, you wouldn't have read and had the belief you have if you were not born a Hindu (Hinduism as well as Buddhism are quite liberal) and a Jat.

PS: I my self doesn't believe in religion, though I do believe in the concept of religion (which to me is a guiding force).

 

[swaich]

and I hardly see any religious book in any Jaat home (Though each and every arya samaji jat keep Satyartha prakash)..

I have read only these religious book

- kuran ( to understand why muslims are so fanatic)
- satyartha prakash ( to understand why arya samazi are so stubborn, just one step away from fanaticism)
- some part of rig vedas ( to understand history -Aryan invasion theory)
- I visit gurudwara, peer-mazaar and church along with temple (though each one of these religious place is visited very infrequently, say at most 2-3 times in a year)

and I don't know what people are going to call me..hindu, Sikh, atheist?

You are closer to being an agnostic I'd say. There's no harm in being one. Khushwant Singh many of the world's scientists have been agnostics. Its sort of an in-between stage between a believer and an atheist. I consider myself one.

 

[vdhillon]

A. ASSUMPTIONS & DEFINITIONS ARE IMPORTANT
Before embarking on exploration of any topic FRUITFULLY, it always begins with clear mutual understanding of ASSUMPTIONS and DEFINITIONS. Different interpretation of same assumptions and definitions, will alter our views. Different set of assumptions will yield different results of inquiry.

Clarity on definitions is important because 4 people may be discussing APPLES, one person might be talking about FUJI APPLE (sweet and red apple fruit), GRANNY SMITH APPLE (sour and green apple fruit), CUSTARD APPLE (green fruit with white pulp, Hindi: Ramphal) or APPLE COMPUTERS/MOBILE. Without the clarity on definition they can keep arguing to prove each other wrong but to no avail.

Clarity on assumptions is important because if we ASSUME THERE IS GOD, GOD IS NOTHING BUT NATURE AND COLLECTION OF SCIENTIFICALLY-VALID RULES (some of which we know, rest are yet to be discovered) AND NOTHING ELSE then even atheist and agnostics will readily agree with this definition that GOD exists.

If the assumption is changed to that THERE IS AN "INTERVENTIONIST" GOD THAT KEEPS TRACK OF THINGS WE DO, REWARDS (HEAVEN/Moksha/Nirvana/jannat) or PUNISHES (hell/jehnumm/narka/reincarnation as animals), then this is a belief held by believers only, not by atheists and agnostics.

Set of assumptions and definitions is called a PARADIGM. It is important to understand which paradigm we use.


B. TWO DIFFERENT PARADIGMS OF BELIEVERS & NON-BELIEVERS

B1. BELIEVERS OF GOD: Faith comes first (firmly assume first), then knowledge follows
Theists believe that belief (firm assumptions) comes first, then the knowledge follows. Belief remains unchanged, any new knowledge discovered has to be retro-fitted to suit the belief. First believe there is a god, then interpret everything based on that belief.

Some of the theists believe in prayers and the god rewards sincere prayers. Atheists and agnostics call it PLACEBO EFFECT (positive benefit accruing from false/unproven belief) similar to positive improvement shown by patient when they are given a fake and ineffective medicine when the patient believes that have been given a real and effective medicine, that is the psychological healing power of belief).

Since prayers sometimes work and sometimes do not (scientifically it is a random chance coupled with placebo effect), this placebo effect is not available to atheists/agnostics who do not believe in prayers. Atheists and agnostics believe that people still can avail this healing benefit of "power of self-belief" through MEDITATION without the belief in unscientific superstition of prayers/religion/god.

B2. NON-BELIEVERS OF GOD:
Rational/scientific knowledge comes first, then faith follows. If knowledge changes, faith (results and assumptions) will change.
Atheists and agnostics, believe that first discover the knowledge and then form the belief based on the verifiable-knowledge. If the knowledge changes (through future scientific discovery), then the belief changes also. First discover the knowledge and if scientific evidence proves (currently no such verifiable evidence) only then accept the existence of god.



C. CLASSIFICATION OF THEISTS, ATHEISTS & AGNOSTICS

C.1. THEISTS conclusively believe that there definitely is a God.
This category includes
- those who believe in institutionalized religion (all mainstream religions with highly formalized rituals, only my scriptures/prophet(s) are the right one)
and
- spiritualist (they usually believe, "I believe in God but not religion" or "I have a personal relationship with God, I can talk to him, I do not need rituals or religion for that but I respect all religion").

C.2. ATHEISTS conclusively believe that definitely is no God
Though no scientific theory has been able to verity this "null hypothesis" (conclusively prove that there is no god). They believe in respecting other's right to believe in scientifically unproven nonsense (religion), but they do not respect the unproven nonsense.

They may say something like, "I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT to believe in nonsense, but I do NOT RESPECT THE NONSENSE YOU BELIEVE IN and/or I will refute the nonsense (because it is perpetuates anti-science, anti-fact, anti-knowledge. anti-progress)".

C.3. AGNOSTICS: Open to further evidence
Agnostics is not an in-between state or confused state - as some detractors like to misconstrue it as. It is being in a state of "given the limitation of our current collective scientific tools and methods at the disposal of humanity, I am open to further verifiable evidence regarding existence or non-existence of God as science's understanding expands". This is an OPEN, RATIONAL SCIENTIFIC VERIFIABLE REPEATABLE EVIDENCE BASED INQUIRY approach.

Agnostics do not "currently' believe in God, unless future evidence clinches it. Agnostics also believe that if ever a God is found, it is highly improbable that it is the kind of God that is preached in the Institutionalized Religions (limited to specific scriptures and/or prophets) or believed by "spiritualists" (God listens to my prayers).

Based on the current "weight of scientific evidence", the probability of existence of God is very feeble and even if a God is found to be exist in future (through scientific inquiry) then it is certainly not an INTERVENTIONIST god, not a kind of God that listens to prayers, keeps track of prayers and then accordingly rewards/punishes people.

It will be most likely a non-interventionist God that created a set of rules as a framework that is scientifically valid across the universe (or multiverses if they exist), though there are some hypothesis that different universes of multiverse may have different set of scientifically-valid rules, in that sense the scientific rules that are applicable to our universe are only a subset. Some of these scientific rules have been understood/discovered and proven by the mankind, others are just yet-to-be-tested hypothesis (known-unknown), and then there are yet unknown-unknown scientific rules.

... contd.

 

[vdhillon]

contd ...

D. FURTHER EXPLORATION
Later given the time and mood, I may try to elaborate the following to explore this further, if not I suggest to look at short youtube videos on the following (graphics make it easy to understand) topics:

D.1. Dimensions:
11 dimensions (Human live in 3D world, we can understand up to 5 or 6 dimensions, there are more dimensions beyond that, there may lie things that we do not know and understand yet. There may even lie an answer to if there is a GOD or any other superior power that controls us, if so then what are the traits of it, could it be called God, etc.

D.2. Multiverses:
Higher dimensions (above what we human can experience) may have multiple universes called multiverses. They may be replicas or variations of our universe, in different universe we may be living a different life. In one parallel universe, you may be living your DRAM LIFE (as you see it today here on earth), while in another parallel universe your life might be miserable and you might be currently living the dream life at earth from the destitute version of you in that pathetic parallel universe.

D.3. Fractals:
Everything in the universe is made up of self-repeating identical patterns called fractals. An exact copy of everything exists somewhere else, we just need to look FAR and WIDE enough. Another earth with human habitat may exist if we look several light years far away (we currently do not have the means, future scientific advancements may give us the means if we are not made extinct before that happens, or we mutate/evolve into more capable and reach that stage of exploration much faster, we just do not know yet). There may exist a replica of earth and you somewhere within this universe or in another universe (if multiverses exist). All fractals can be turned into Mathematical equations and models. Our DNA, nano-particles, atoms, molecules, pattern on flowers, etc everything has a repeating pattern. Everything is made up of fractals.

D.4. Fractals in Multiverses in other dimensions
Try to find a video or article on how fractals, dimensions and factcals repeat in other dimensions as parallel universe, etc. This will combine the understanding of previous 3 points leading to some organised meta-understanding.

D.5. Blackholes as portals to travel to parallel universes in another dimensions
Blackholes may be portals that can be used as tunnels to travel to another parallel universe. There are some Mathematical modelings around this hypothesis. This shows a potential ways of traversing between our universe to another universe.

D.6. Truth may always elude us, things change under observation, but we can ascertain probability
Things behave differently when they are being observed, there is a well known experiment on how electrons change the behavior when they are under observation. If we want to find the facts, then if we study god, then nature of god/things/facts/subject-under-study will change and behave differently, that means truth will change under study and will revert to a different state once not studied, i.e. different versions of truth may exist and we may never know the real truth (not under study)...lolz.

Do not lose heart, we can still plot this on a probabilistic bell curve and still be able to say with y-degree of confidence level (standard deviation) that x-truth exists with z-level of probability.


D.7. As the knowledge expands (known-known), our known-unknown expands also
Also try to find a youtube video or article on "more we know, less we know".
Basically,
(a) things known to you,
(b) things unknown to you but collectively known to the humanity,
(c) things that humanity collectively knows that they do not know: Collective known-unknown,
(d) collective unknown-unknown. More we know, we know lot more compared to the past.

Think of the knowledge as a circle. As the circle expands, its outer boundary/parameter also expands, beyond the outer parameter of our knowledge exists things we do not know. As out circle of knowledge expands, so does the parameter of things we do not know.

With expansion of our knowledge, we know more than what we knew before, but the things we now know that we do not know (known-unknown) have also increased. That is why several experiments concluded that people with less knowledge self-rate their knowledge much higher compared to the experts of the field who mostly self-rate themselves lower on the scale of knowledge in that field.

D.8. Belief may be bad
Excessive belief causes permanent irreversible brain damage to Hypocompus region of the brain that is responsible for the analytical reasoning. That is why excessively religious people may not accept the truth no matter what amount of evidence you present to them. Watch a video or read an article on how religion damages Hypocompus. This means parents ingraining a child in religion are causing brain damage to them, a worst form of child abuse.

Also, worth reading on types of biases (start with wikipedia), e.g. information bias, belief bias, etc. For example, some believers will not accept the facts no matter how much clinching scientific evidence you present to refute their belief.

D.9 Confusing differences in scientific and common English terminology
Scientist use different meaning for the same terms than the common English. To explore a topic in scientific manner, important to understand the difference. A lot of video/articles you read, you will need this understanding.

In the views of common people, THEORY IS an UNPROVEN FACTS. Unless proven it is merely a proposition/possibility of being a fact (or false), not an established and verified fact.

Whereas, scientist call a proposition a HYPOTHESIS (common people call it theory). Once a hypothesis is tested through scientific experimentation, it is either rejected or accepted. if accepted, then tested and proven hypothesis becomes a VERIFIED FACT and it is called THEORY.

In other words, THEORY for common people is a untested proposition and not an verified fact, scientists call it HYPOTHESIS. THEORY in scientific language is verified VERIFIED & ESTABLISHED FACT.

Though scientists refrain from the use of word FACT and they use theory. Because in science nothing is accepted as 100% fact. Once something is accepted as 100% fact then it means it is beyond being questioned, that means we will not further explore the area, science always encourages further exploration. If we stopped exploring beyond cells, we would not have found dna. If we stopped exploring beyond molecules, we would not have found atoms and now nano-particles. Scientists differentiate between THEORY and FACT. Theory is a widely acceptable scientific fact with a certain degree of confidence (you may want to familiarise yourself with COEFFICIENT OF CORRELATION and STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE, STANDARD DEVIATION, etc) but not with 100% confidence. This small standard deviation (lack of confidence) leaves the scope open for the further exploration.

In scientific world, THEORY is almost a FACT but not 100%. I hope, I have not confused. In religion, one has to believe 100% first without evidence then evidence/knowledge/brainwashing will follow, in science even when evidence is piled up it is still called THEORY so as to leave further scope to explore the truth even at more GRANULAR level as scientific methods, tools and understanding of that specific area enhances.


... contd.

 

[vdhillon]

... contd.

E. IT DOES NOT MATTER IF GOD EXISTS OR NOT: GOAL OF LIFE IS TO BE HAPPY
It is irrelevant if God exists or not, as long as you are not imposing, killing, forcing others in the name of it. Do not become radicalized. Those who become religiously radicalized, they become terrorists killing others. Those who become scientifically radicalized, they become atheist and not open to further evidence. But Atheists never kills anyone in the name of belief. In that sense, no-religion is better than having a religion (one less reason to kill each other and force compliance of stuff on to others). It is better to keep an open mind (agnostic).

Ultimate goal of life is to be happy. It does not matter if god exists or not, if you are able to find happiness by believing or non-believing. By becoming radicalized (religious fanatic or hardcore atheist) makes people frustrated and angry, which erodes personal happiness. Do not become too emotionally attached to the belief. Always leave a door ajar for the further exploration, for us being wrong, for the opportunity to unlearn and relearn.

Happiness comes when we are at peace with: I (you), Us (people), Universe (god/science).

E.1. Be at peace with oneself:
Forgive yourself, love yourself the way you are, live with no regrets and guilt but carry the lesson learnt, practice self-esteem (self-confidence, self-belief - internal locus of control rather than external locus of control of belief in superstitions) and self-empathy (love and nurture yourself as you would your cute little sweet child).

Regardless of you are a believer or not, one can follow "aham brahmo asmi" (I am the God) i.e. one can be the creator of their own universe of happiness.


E.2. Be at peace with the world:
Be at peace with people, family, friends around us.
Do live, let live, allow space of differences and diversity of things, including ideology and faith. You do not have to respect them (respect others right to believe in nonsense, you don't have to respect their nonsense they believe in, refute the nonsense but do it cordially, no need to fight or convert, say your things, let people decide if they want it or not).

Regardless of you are a believer or not, one can follow "vasudewa Kutumbkam bhawa" (Whole universe is my home and family) i.e. be kind to all, say no to casteism (and its extension caste-based reservation ... lolz, there is more to life than just being a Jat, be a good human than a radical jat, we can be both good jat and good universal humanist without being castist), take care of your friends and family without being a martyr and without loosing your individuality, take care of our ecology and environment, etc.


E.3. Be at peace with Universe: be at peace with the higher questions of god, religion, big bang, scientific facts, etc
All religion proclaim to keep an open mind, but they self-contradict. They basically say, open your mind (implied) BUT ONLY TO WHAT I SAY, only to my interpretation of the truth but if you question the book/scripture/prophet who said so, then you are to be punished/killed for being a traitor/kafir/adharmi/non-believer i.e. open your mind to accept what i say and question within the parameters of what I allow but not beyond it. apana aapa bahar chod aao, complete surrender to me, open your mind to brainwashing without questioning. Lolz.
Further more, a lot of believers try to paddle their prophecies by trying to legitimize them by trying to explain unscientific belief/superstitions with the use of scientific terminology and/or reverse engineering.

If there was a mention of flying objects in Ramayana then there must be advanced aviation science (then why and when was it lost, why no pieces of vimans have been found? e.g. AVATARA 3D movie, the movie is a fact but things inside the movie are not, harry potter book is a fact but the tricks inside the book are fiction, ramayan is a fact and mention of vimana inside is a fact but that may be a flight of fancy and not an actual scientific achievement during those days).



F. JUST BE HAPPY ... fikar kare fukre
In the end, does not matter what you believe in, as long as it brings you peace and you are not forcing it on anyone including your kids and family members.

Sorry for the long comment. I did not mean to give a PHD (Permanent Head Damage). I have tried to put all the related things together to paint a picture, it is only one way of looking at it, there are other ways too.

It is a good framework to start exploration regardless of which paradigm you believe in, religious paradigm of "believe first then knowledge follows" or scientific paradigm of "find facts/knowledge first, then believe".

Keep an open mind, enjoy the pursuit of knowledge. Make the choice to be HAPPY and do not force your notion of happiness on others

Your turn, please share your views, so we can learn through you.

Thanks

 

[prashantacmet]

Opportunist, but worried and careful for your family.
You visit gurudwara, because you think your many forefathers converted to Sikhism and therefore you have special attachment to Sikhism. You visit peer-mazaar so that in riot like odd situations you can claim before the assailant Muslims that you are not Hindu and you believe in Islam so that they can spare your life. Same fear takes you to the church (as it may work for you if you manage to settle in USA or some other Christian country). But it is all useless, because if the assailant Muslims/Christians ask you to chant some lines of Quran/Bible you will fail. They will ask you to show some identity card and then you will find yourself in trouble, because your name is a Hindu. You don't have the combination of all religions in your name e.g. Mohammad Prashant D'souza. Nor your kids' and other family members' name have such combination (I guess). In documents you never filled that you believe in all religions. You are availing Hinduism, but you don't want to thank it.
Look as far as religion is concerned it doesn't matter what you think, but facts matter. Suppose I believe in my mind that I am lord of this whole universe, then it doesn't matter. Facts say it is not so and I am just an ordinary person. So it doesn't matter what religion you follow in your mind. Facts (your name, your customs/rituals, your other family members' name, mode of marriage, festivals you and your family celebrate, your wearings and many other factors) will tell others what religion you follow. Moreover I also have to say that mostly people don't adopt such names which don't match their religion and therefore if some people do so then they will have to face huge problems. Suppose some Sikh has the name John D'costa, then in his life he will face a lot of problems. Christians will take him to be a Christian what he is not and Sikhs will not take him as a Sikh what he is. His kids will also face big problems. In school when they tell the name of their father all will ask him whether he is a Christian? And when they will tell some Sikh that they are also Sikh then too they will be ridiculed because of their father's name John D'costa.
Actually religions are like big gangs and name gives one identity which gang he/she is associated with. If someone adopts the name of other gang he will certainly face the problems. At least I think so and I know mostly people in the world too think so, therefore I don't care what a fistful people think (in their mind against the visible facts).

and I will call you "koop-mandook" and "shallow-minded" for your analysis!

now first think honestly and tell!

- have u never visited any gurudwara in your whole life?
- have you never entered in a church?
- have you never gone to peer ( your village definitely should have one)?

 

[abhikrana]

I would here agree to disagree with you.

If one has never visited a gurudwara/church/peer mazaar, he is shallow minded?????

I strongly believe that shallowness lies in the thought process because from one's thought process originate his actions. One might visit a gurudwara/church/peer mazaar or for that matter even a temple, but if his thoughts are focused on worldly matters/materialism instead of God, there is no point in visiting these places.

The only good thing that really matters is doing good things whether or not one has religious books at home. The ISIS militants swear by the Quran day in and day out and kill innocent people including children. Without getting into the question of what the Quran preaches, is that the definition of being God-fearing and doing good deeds?????

and I will call you "koop-mandook" and "shallow-minded" for your analysis!

now first think honestly and tell!

- have u never visited any gurudwara in your whole life?
- have you never entered in a church?
- have you never gone to peer ( your village definitely should have one)?

 

[prashantacmet]

I would here agree to disagree with you.

If one has never visited a gurudwara/church/peer mazaar, he is shallow minded?????

I strongly believe that shallowness lies in the thought process because from one's thought process originate his actions. One might visit a gurudwara/church/peer mazaar or for that matter even a temple, but if his thoughts are focused on worldly matters/materialism instead of God, there is no point in visiting these places.

The only good thing that really matters is doing good things whether or not one has religious books at home. The ISIS militants swear by the Quran day in and day out and kill innocent people including children. Without getting into the question of what the Quran preaches, is that the definition of being God-fearing and doing good deeds?????

Did I say so? read my statement again "I will call you "koop-mandook" and "shallow-minded" for your analysis!"

you don't even understand a bit what I am saying...and I am not willing to explain to your "narrow mind"


By the way, there is no need of you to jump in everywhere as a "protector of religion"

 

[upendersingh]

and I will call you "koop-mandook" and "shallow-minded" for your analysis!

now first think honestly and tell!

- have u never visited any gurudwara in your whole life?
- have you never entered in a church?
- have you never gone to peer ( your village definitely should have one)?

If I have not used derogatory words for you then why are you doing so? It is just showing your frustration. Shut my mouth with good logics. Around 20 years back with some Sikh friends I went in a gurudwara near Mumbai. I never entered in a church. I don't remember I have gone to any peer, but with some friends I went to syed (perhaps that is known as peer-mazaar), but with my wish alone I never visited these places. And with my alone wish I just 4-5 times visited any temple too. But what has all this to do with other people's hypocrisy?
If you want to argue rationally then continue and if not then you are requested to not to quote me at least.

 

[abhikrana]

The analysis of this writer is based on the same facts and hence,calling some one koop mandook or whatever on the basis of those facts again shows the level of tolerance of the person using such terms/language.

I might have the narrowest of minds, but it certainly is not APOLOGETIC for being who I am and we all are - HINDUS. I would work towards reforming my faith/religion rather than cursing it day in and day out, from birth till death. If people have a problem with being a Hindu, doors are always open for them to leave. They won't be killed for adopting the religion of their choice unlike in the other religions.

I certainly am not a protector of religion and neither do I claim or wish to be one. I only am surprised at the hypocrisy of people who follow all Hindu rituals from birth till death and yet have all the wrong things to say about it!

Did I say so? read my statement again "I will call you "koop-mandook" and "shallow-minded" for your analysis!"

you don't even understand a bit what I am saying...and I am not willing to explain to your "narrow mind"


By the way, there is no need of you to jump in everywhere as a "protector of religion"

 

[prashantacmet]

If I have not used derogatory words for you then why are you doing so? It is just showing your frustration. Shut my mouth with good logics. Around 20 years back with some Sikh friends I went in a gurudwara near Mumbai. I never entered in a church. I don't remember I have gone to any peer, but with some friends I went to syed (perhaps that is known as peer-mazaar), but with my wish alone I never visited these places. And with my alone wish I just 4-5 times visited any temple too. But what has all this to do with other people's hypocrisy?
If you want to argue rationally then continue and if not then you are requested to not to quote me at least.

"Opportunist" is a derogatory word for me....Apart from that you are directly invading on me and you statements implies that I am doing all this due to some fear, that seems more derogatory to me ..and I said you "shallow-minded" because you could not understand what I wanted to say and I don't see any need of counter you by logics because you are sitting on south pole and I am on north pole .....and believe me dear, you are frustrated not me...save yourself!
By the way, what the hell you were doing in a Gurudwara and at Syed.....were you scared that your mumbai friends were going to thrown you out of company?....did you not fall from your Hindu status?..and you just visited the temple with your wish just 4-5 times..you don't seem a hindu at all if I jump on conclusion all of a sudden as you did in my case..


By the way, dear as far as your "factual and logical" analysis is concerned....how did you infer that analysis from that post of mine..?..

did I say I am not a hindu?
did I abuse Hinduism?
hundreds of Hindu visit golden temple in Amritsar daily..all of them have become Sikh...and they have no respect for Hindusim..yes?

many hindus visist jama masjid, ajmer dargaah..all of them have become untouchables as soon as they entered in dargaah..yes?

you visited gurudwara and syed , you are a hindu and I am not because I visited church too and You started giving your theory you are fond of , every third post of your will say the same story as you poured out here...
what are the pre-requisite to remain a hindu as per your theory? I think you keep beating drums of liberalism in Hinduism..was one post of mine enough to break that illusion?

 

[prashantacmet]

The analysis of this writer is based on the same facts and hence,calling some one koop mandook or whatever on the basis of those facts again shows the level of tolerance of the person using such terms/language.

I might have the narrowest of minds, but it certainly is not APOLOGETIC for being who I am and we all are - HINDUS. I would work towards reforming my faith/religion rather than cursing it day in and day out, from birth till death. If people have a problem with being a Hindu, doors are always open for them to leave. They won't be killed for adopting the religion of their choice unlike in the other religions.

I certainly am not a protector of religion and neither do I claim or wish to be one. I only am surprised at the hypocrisy of people who follow all Hindu rituals from birth till death and yet have all the wrong things to say about it!

By the way, where the hell did you find bad words about "Hinduism" said by me...?..quote any statement from this discussion..?

If I am being an agnostic thyen you are on verge of being a "fanatic" begani shaadi main Abdulla deewana...main kya kah raha huin aap kya samajh rahe ho....!

 

[prashantacmet]

By the way to curb your curiosity down, le me declare ..I am a born hindu/Vedic jaat..I followed few rituals of Hinduism...I am still a Hindu..I am not certain about tomorrow......:tongue:..enjoy with your logics!..people are tired of catfight here so I rest my case.

 

[swaich]

I think its absolutely essential to visit places of religions other than your own. Not to worship, but to satisfy one's curiosity, to observe and to understand. I studied in a convent school so visits to the school chapel were common. I regularly visited temples as a child and even when I was older. And I think being an agnostic freed me from the burden of guilt or conscience in visiting other places. Hey when I don't even completely believe in my own God, every place of worship becomes just a regular place as I am just a visitor not a worshipper.

And once you visit a church, a masjid or a temple you understand their really are no differences. Everyone coming to these places has the same look on their faces, the same reverence in their eyes and the same prayer of hope on their lips. And that is where you understand humanity.

 

[vdhillon]

Comment for further clarity.

At one hand classification do not matter, what matters is what an individual self-identifies as.
On the other hand, in terms of scientific study of classes of believers and non-believers, classification are important.


I will add two more sub-classes to my previous comments:

Omnist: one who believes in all religions. A subclass of theists.

Apatheist: One who neither accept, nor deny existence of Gods. The believe even if God existed it would not be interfering in people's lives, so they simply do not care even if God existed. Hence, no need to visit any places except to scientifically study them like a student would look at microbes under microscope as an external observer. Sub-class of agnostic.

One who has not given up the belief completely is not an agnostic. Still a believer/theist, albeit partial, may be less orthodox/fanatic, more open to other religions, less concrete in faith and less ritualistic, but still covering the bases by visiting all places just in case. A type of spiritualist, not apatheist.

 

[raka]

Sharad Yadav speaking about Unionist's .....
'जातिव्यवस्था ने जाटों को किया जलील , इसलिए जाटों ने किया हिन्दू धर्म से पलायन '
"यह ज़लालत अब भी जारी हैं ,
अब समझने की हमारी बारी हैं "
<span style="color: rgb(20, 24, 35); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 19.3199996948242px;">

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यह डिबेट धर्म परिवर्तन (घर वापसी) को ले कर थी , इसमे तीनों मेहमानों मे से दो यादव व एक ब्राह्मण था | जब शरद यादव जी ने असल मुद्दे की बात शुरू की तो एंकर जो खुद एक ब्राह्मण हैं ने और सीताराम यचूरी ने बात ही घूमा दी , जिस पर शरद जी ने कहा की आप टप्पा दे रहे हैं .... यह जाति चाहे वामपंथी हो चाहे कुछ और अंदर खाते एक हैं इसलिए असल बात लोगो के सामने नहीं आने देना चाहते | शरद यादव जी को यह बात कहने के लिए चाहे 2 मिनट का समय मिला हो परंतु वह अपना संदेश ,अपना काम कर गए

 

[vdhillon]

Sharad is factually not correct. Jats who left Hinduism, they did not accept Islam voluntarily, they mostly did so under force and duress, jo bahadur jat they woh jee jaan laada kar fought till death (read history of khaps against timur, gazni, abdali, mughals, read about Gokul Jat) against scrooge of invading Islamists who gave 2 options die or accept islam.

Jo darpok Jat the woh fatak se dharam parivartan kar ke baith gye. Mistake of Hindus was that when these forcibly converted Muslims wanted to come back to Hindu fold as soon as threat from muslim invaders subsided, they were not accepted back for being polluted and darpok. Those radicalized Islamists now act as cancerous cell, convert one, give them 3 or 4 generations to become radicalize and they start converting/infecting more and eventually start killing others by taking pride in a cancerous barbaric theopolitical doctrine of hatred started by a blood thirsty pedophile butcher.

Sharad Yadav speaking about Unionist's .....
'जातिव्यवस्था ने जाटों को किया जलील , इसलिए जाटों ने किया हिन्दू धर्म से पलायन '
"यह ज़लालत अब भी जारी हैं ,
अब समझने की हमारी बारी हैं "
<span style="color: rgb(20, 24, 35); font-family: Helvetica, Arial, 'lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 19.3199996948242px;">

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
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यह डिबेट धर्म परिवर्तन (घर वापसी) को ले कर थी , इसमे तीनों मेहमानों मे से दो यादव व एक ब्राह्मण था | जब शरद यादव जी ने असल मुद्दे की बात शुरू की तो एंकर जो खुद एक ब्राह्मण हैं ने और सीताराम यचूरी ने बात ही घूमा दी , जिस पर शरद जी ने कहा की आप टप्पा दे रहे हैं .... यह जाति चाहे वामपंथी हो चाहे कुछ और अंदर खाते एक हैं इसलिए असल बात लोगो के सामने नहीं आने देना चाहते | शरद यादव जी को यह बात कहने के लिए चाहे 2 मिनट का समय मिला हो परंतु वह अपना संदेश ,अपना काम कर गए

 

[swaich]

Sharad is factually not correct. Jats who left Hinduism, they did not accept Islam voluntarily, they mostly did so under force and duress, jo bahadur jat they woh jee jaan laada kar fought till death (read history of khaps against timur, gazni, abdali, mughals, read about Gokul Jat) against scrooge of invading Islamists who gave 2 options die or accept islam.

Jo darpok Jat the woh fatak se dharam parivartan kar ke baith gye. Mistake of Hindus was that when these forcibly converted Muslims wanted to come back to Hindu fold as soon as threat from muslim invaders subsided, they were not accepted back for being polluted and darpok. Those radicalized Islamists now act as cancerous cell, convert one, give them 3 or 4 generations to become radicalize and they start converting/infecting more and eventually start killing others by taking pride in a cancerous barbaric theopolitical doctrine of hatred started by a blood thirsty pedophile butcher.

Neither do I fully agree with Sharad Yadav but I think you may be a little hasty in passing judgements on our Jat ancestors who veered away from Hinduism. What do we know of the hardships or daily lives they lived to say they were scared? Islam also spread via Sufism in the North as it appealed to the culture of saints/babas this region had. If they could convert of their own will to Sikhism, they could very well do the same and convert to Islam.