जिन्होंने हिंदू धर्म को त्यागा...

[abhikrana]

Yes, what do you suggest that Jats should do?

1. Keep cursing the ills that once were there in Hinduism as were there in Christianity and a lot of which has been reformed?
2. Keep Persian origin names?
3. Leave Hinduism?

The only thing that I see from posts of members who subscribe to your ideology is that keep following this religion and yet keep cursing it. Our ancestors (Jats) did not leave Hindu religion even during the Mughal or the British rule when we were persecuted. Why, if Hindu religion was so bad?????

What stops you from leaving this bad religion? Or would you want to continue with your pastime of cursing it ad nauseam?

Or rather what will satisfy people who subscribe to your ideology? That all Hindus stand on the streets and curse their religion?

What efforts have you made to reform your religion as an individual? What is your contribution except for sheer cursing/criticism?

Upender Bhai


Have you ever tried to find your own genealogy .Just find it from some panda from Haridwar and you will be surprised to find a lot of persian names in that .Names mentioned as Irsamad is central asian Buja Vivswan etc are Iranian... Iit. loverpi etc can be better understood by you ,However, these are the names of composer of rigvedic hymns ...

For our ancesstor entire central asia was a playground ,they knew no boundaries no passports moved and settled where ever they found conditions suitable for them ..you want to chain their Pahchan to present India ..It is futile and useless.

There is nothing like Hindu Religion .....Term Hindu was coined by foreigners like Arabs for geographic sense ....for religion they knew two religions in those times...
Bahmans...(follower of present Hinduism)

Samans....(follower of Buddhism)

And they clearly mentions again and again that........ Jats are SAMANIS.


So present Hindu Jats as it looks are just convert who accepted the superiority( slavery in your terms) of Brahamns in religious matters afterwards.

 

[abhikrana]

Why don't you elaborate on the flaws/inconsistencies in the Sikh religion? Or is it picture perfect? I am yet to read any post by you where you have dealt in detail about the flaws in Sikhism. You have a grudge against Hindus primarily because you had some bad experience post 1984 and you take out that grudge in some way or the other and what better way to do it than do it online? Considering the fact that Hindus were also massacred in Punjab during militancy, yet I am yet to see the Hindus cursing Sikhism. In fact, a lot of the migrants Hindus from Punjab still visit Gurudwaras despite being uprooted from their homes by the Sikh militants.

Your favourite pastime is to criticize Hinduism because that's the easiest to do and because some misguided Hindus do it themselves (instead of reforming it further).

Why can't those living as followers of Hindu religion or born as Hindus point out the flaws or inconsistencies? Why does that make some people defensive?

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Who says there is a good or a bad religion??

It seems that a few enlightened souls do not have any reply to their hypocrisy.

They will themselves alongwith their families follow Hindu religion, but keep cursing their faith till their death. They will not also convert to the religion of their choice because they will not get the freedom to indulge in their favourite pastime - cursing and criticizing.

Self contradictory statement : Enlightened souls - hypocrisy. Both can never co-exist.

Raising question mark on the spread of redundant superstitions in the garb of Hindu traditions and conventions by the present day Babas has perhaps led to rise of this tendency among the people. The mess is being further accelerated with Babas-politicians nexus. If the Babas with thousands of followers are facing charges of various magnitude, where they are taking our much valued religious belief in their righteousness and above board dealings.

Does anybody have any objection if someone asks for clearing Hindu faith from such type of messy things ! Look inward before asking others either to follow what is available in the name of religion or to quit.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

............ and because some misguided Hindus do it themselves (instead of reforming it further).

Gautama the Buddha, Swami Dayanand Sarswati and many others who raised the banner against ills of the prevalent religious faiths of the times were also castigated as misguided persons.

Therefore, this is ages old method adopted by lovers of status quo to silence the critics to give them bad name and try to put a stop to the advancement of their demand and spread of their views.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Yes, what do you suggest that Jats should do?

1. Keep cursing the ills that once were there in Hinduism as were there in Christianity and a lot of which has been reformed?
2. Keep Persian origin names?
3. Leave Hinduism?

The only thing that I see from posts of members who subscribe to your ideology is that keep following this religion and yet keep cursing it. Our ancestors (Jats) did not leave Hindu religion even during the Mughal or the British rule when we were persecuted. Why, if Hindu religion was so bad?????

What stops you from leaving this bad religion? Or would you want to continue with your pastime of cursing it ad nauseam?

Or rather what will satisfy people who subscribe to your ideology? That all Hindus stand on the streets and curse their religion?

What efforts have you made to reform your religion as an individual? What is your contribution except for sheer cursing/criticism?

What wrong do you see in the demand for reform in our much beloved Hindu religion.

Is there no place, according to you, for those who ask for reforms in Hinduism !

Hinduism is not as narrow and intolerant religion as some over zealots believe it to be and this character of Hindu religion is well established. According to our constitution even today Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism etc are not treated separate religions but are included as various branches of Hinduism.

My dear friend, Hinduism has been like a ocean which has seen waves and tides from within and without with amazing capacity and will do so in future too. Please let it flourish according to the demand of changing times and do not raise extreme demand to push some of the so called misguided people to leave it.

Hence we must leave it to the individuals to select/elect their way of life as Hinduism is also a way of life. So far as the community is concerned let Jats find out the reason why they should do this and not do that because closed minds never lead to progress and flourish.

 

[narenderkharb]

Yes, what do you suggest that Jats should do?

1. Keep cursing the ills that once were there in Hinduism as were there in Christianity and a lot of which has been reformed?
2. Keep Persian origin names?
3. Leave Hinduism?

The only thing that I see from posts of members who subscribe to your ideology is that keep following this religion and yet keep cursing it. Our ancestors (Jats) did not leave Hindu religion even during the Mughal or the British rule when we were persecuted. Why, if Hindu religion was so bad?????

What stops you from leaving this bad religion? Or would you want to continue with your pastime of cursing it ad nauseam?

Or rather what will satisfy people who subscribe to your ideology? That all Hindus stand on the streets and curse their religion?

What efforts have you made to reform your religion as an individual? What is your contribution except for sheer cursing/criticism?

Take the things in correct perspective ,I have no personal agenda.


I just want to show the things as they were in earlier times .Jats had been Samanis what can we do about it .

There is no master in Sikhism .Jats joined it because of their nature of rebellion against tyranny (most of the adoptions took place during Banda bhadur times).So adopting Sikhism for fight against tyranny of Rulers of that period was a an act of bravery not some kind of slavery as you people try to present

Jats had been open minded people not religious bigot and they never hesitated to accept what seemed reasonable to them.

 

[samarkadian]

Favourable responses in this thread are akin to oxymoronic intellectually challenged Brahimincal reactions given against the American Sanskrit and Indologist Scholar Wendy Doniger’s book – ‘The Hindus: An Alternative History. Although penguin has withdrew this book but I have a soft copy if anyone want it. Further there is another scholarly work Eck’s India: A Sacred Geography.

 

[abhikrana]

Yes sir, this is the contradiction I wanted to highlight and this contradiction is the source of hypocrisy. A few self styled enlightened souls are indulging in destructive thought process rather than constructive. Despite my repeated prodding I am yet to find anything worthwhile in the Hinduism-bashing posts which suggests how we can reform Hinduism further. For such people, Only the evil things about Hinduism quite a few of which do not even exist today after centuries of continuous reforms.

Yes, the pakhandi babas need to be arrested and put behind bars. If you think that Hinduism is only limited to these babas, you are highly mistaken. That amounts to looking at such a culturally rich religion from a very narrow perspective and it reflects the bias and prejudice.

Yes, I am in favour of reforms. What have you or in particular the Hindu-bashers suggested to FURTHER reform the religion????

This is where I say that Hypocrisy comes into picture. One does not wish to do anything about the reforms, but will spend a life time cursing his own religion. Such people can save themselves the misery and always are free to leave. But they will be hypocrites - Be Hindus and yet keep abusing it day in and day out.

Self contradictory statement : Enlightened souls - hypocrisy. Both can never co-exist.

Raising question mark on the spread of redundant superstitions in the garb of Hindu traditions and conventions by the present day Babas has perhaps led to rise of this tendency among the people. The mess is being further accelerated with Babas-politicians nexus. If the Babas with thousands of followers are facing charges of various magnitude, where they are taking our much valued religious belief in their righteousness and above board dealings.

Does anybody have any objection if someone asks for clearing Hindu faith from such type of messy things ! Look inward before asking others either to follow what is available in the name of religion or to quit.

 

[abhikrana]

Swami Dayanand, Raja Ram Mohan Roy and people like them did not raise banners, they REFORMED Hinduism. These were not people who spent a life time abusing, cursing and criticizing. They took initiative and spent their lives in doing something good for the Hindu faith and religion.

What are the hypocrites doing here? Only day in and day out abusing and cursing? What about reforms? What has been their contribution to reforms??? ZERO.

Gautama the Buddha, Swami Dayanand Sarswati and many others who raised the banner against ills of the prevalent religious faiths of the times were also castigated as misguided persons.

Therefore, this is ages old method adopted by lovers of status quo to silence the critics to give them bad name and try to put a stop to the advancement of their demand and spread of their views.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Yes sir, this is the contradiction I wanted to highlight and this contradiction is the source of hypocrisy. A few self styled enlightened souls are indulging in destructive thought process rather than constructive. Despite my repeated prodding I am yet to find anything worthwhile in the Hinduism-bashing posts which suggests how we can reform Hinduism further. For such people, Only the evil things about Hinduism quite a few of which do not even exist today after centuries of continuous reforms.

Yes, the pakhandi babas need to be arrested and put behind bars. If you think that Hinduism is only limited to these babas, you are highly mistaken. That amounts to looking at such a culturally rich religion from a very narrow perspective and it reflects the bias and prejudice.

Yes, I am in favour of reforms. What have you or in particular the Hindu-bashers suggested to FURTHER reform the religion????

This is where I say that Hypocrisy comes into picture. One does not wish to do anything about the reforms, but will spend a life time cursing his own religion. Such people can save themselves the misery and always are free to leave. But they will be hypocrites - Be Hindus and yet keep abusing it day in and day out.

First try, if you can, to get rid of self styled gods of Hindus i.e. Babas of different hues and colours and many of the evils being perpetuated as religion would be eliminated. Is it possible in the near future !

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, in all the Hindu-bashing posts where do you see the REFORMS?

Only abuse, cursing and criticism. Is that your definition of REFORMS?? I guess it is.

I am no one to remove anyone from the fold of Hinduism. That is just a suggestion to all those apologetic Hindus who feel that they are trapped in this wrong and evil religion. But they won't and instead prefer to curse it and according to their definition that is REFORMS.

Way to go!

What wrong do you see in the demand for reform in our much beloved Hindu religion.

Is there no place, according to you, for those who ask for reforms in Hinduism !

Hinduism is not as narrow and intolerant religion as some over zealots believe it to be and this character of Hindu religion is well established. According to our constitution even today Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism etc are not treated separate religions but are included as various branches of Hinduism.

My dear friend, Hinduism has been like a ocean which has seen waves and tides from within and without with amazing capacity and will do so in future too. Please let it flourish according to the demand of changing times and do not raise extreme demand to push some of the so called misguided people to leave it.

Hence we must leave it to the individuals to select/elect their way of life as Hinduism is also a way of life. So far as the community is concerned let Jats find out the reason why they should do this and not do that because closed minds never lead to progress and flourish.

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, so instead of abusing and cursing your faith, it would be better to spend the energies on these reforms. If pakhandi and dhongi babas have to be kicked out they should be kicked out and put behind bars. Who stops the Hindu-bashers from doing that??

First try, if you can, to get rid of self styled gods of Hindus i.e. Babas of different hues and colours and many of the evils being perpetuated as religion would be eliminated. Is it possible in the near future !

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Swami Dayanand, Raja Ram Mohan Roy and people like them did not raise banners, they REFORMED Hinduism. These were not people who spent a life time abusing, cursing and criticizing. They took initiative and spent their lives in doing something good for the Hindu faith and religion.

What are the hypocrites doing here? Only day in and day out abusing and cursing? What about reforms? What has been their contribution in reforms??? ZERO.

Now you have recognised the right element of trouble to Hinduism - the role of Hypocrites !

I am optimistic and hope that Time is not far away when such great persons as referred to above will emerge and salvage the situation.

 

[abhikrana]

So according to you, the solution is just criticizing and cursing Hindu religion??

What have you done to reform it further? Or is abusing and cursing it your only definition of reforms????

Take the things in correct perspective ,I have no personal agenda.


I just want to show the things as they were in earlier times .Jats had been Samanis what can we do about it .

There is no master in Sikhism .Jats joined it because of their nature of rebellion against tyranny (most of the adoptions took place during Banda bhadur times).So adopting Sikhism for fight against tyranny of Rulers of that period was a an act of bravery not some kind of slavery as you people try to present

Jats had been open minded people not religious bigot and they never hesitated to accept what seemed reasonable to them.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Swami Dayanand, Raja Ram Mohan Roy and people like them did not raise banners, they REFORMED Hinduism. These were not people who spent a life time abusing, cursing and criticizing. They took initiative and spent their lives in doing something good for the Hindu faith and religion.

What are the hypocrites doing here? Only day in and day out abusing and cursing? What about reforms? What has been their contribution in reforms??? ZERO.

They not only raised banners of revolt against the prevalent ills in Hinduism, but openly criticised them and also offered alternatives for betterment of the situation.

Hypocrites are misleading the teeming masses in the name of Dharma.

 

[abhikrana]

Sir, by what you and the Hindu-bashers write, I see you as part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Only abuse, cursing and criticism, NO SOLUTION. If you do not like the babas put them behind bars. Instead what you are doing is abusing Hindu faith which we and y/our forefathers, we and y/our future generations followed/follow/following.

My question is - is this abuse and cursing the reforms that you talk about?

They not only raised banners of revolt against the prevalent ills in Hinduism, but openly criticised them and also offered alternatives for betterment of the situation. Indeed India needs many more such great persons to guide the destiny of the teeming masses being misled by so called path finders of religions misleading the people in the name of Dharma.

 

[raka]

Why don't you elaborate on the flaws/inconsistencies in the Sikh religion? Or is it picture perfect? I am yet to read any post by you where you have dealt in detail about the flaws in Sikhism. You have a grudge against Hindus primarily because you had some bad experience post 1984 and you take out that grudge in some way or the other and what better way to do it than do it online? Considering the fact that Hindus were also massacred in Punjab during militancy, yet I am yet to see the Hindus cursing Sikhism. In fact, a lot of the migrants Hindus from Punjab still visit Gurudwaras despite being uprooted from their homes by the Sikh militants.

Your favourite pastime is to criticize Hinduism because that's the easiest to do and because some misguided Hindus do it themselves (instead of reforming it further).

कौन से हिंदुओं की बात कर रहे हो ? सिर्फ अरोड़े , खत्री , क्योंकि इन लोगो की वजह से यह सब हुआ था | मेरे कई पंजाब से लगते इलाके के हिन्दू जाट जानकार हैं जो भिण्ड्रेवाला के साथ थे | पर इन भाप्पों ने इसे हिन्दू सिक्ख का मसला बना दिया |

 

[raka]

कुछ लोगो ने रट लगा रखी हैं की इस धर्म से इतनी ही तकलीफ हैं तो छोड़ क्यों नहीं देते | आप को किसने बताया की हम इस धर्म मे हैं ? मैं तो हरगिज नहीं | जनगणना मे भी अपना धर्म जाटिज्म लिखवाया था और इसके लिए कमांडेंट साहब ने प्रैस नोट भी दिया था की जाट अपना धर्म जटिज्म लिखवाए , जो सिर्फ कुछ अखबारो मे ही आया वो भी सिर्फ भिवानी के अंक मे | अभी तो इसकी शुरुआत की हैं अगले जनगणना तक पता कर लेना कितने जाट अपना धर्म जाटिज्म लिखवाते हैं |
"कुछ हमारे संग चले आएंगे
कुछ देख कर रंग ढंग चले आएंगे
बाकी जो बचे हो कर तंग चले आएंगे "

:- बाकी जो बचे वाली यह आखिरी लाइन शखों के लिए हैं

अब तो नाम वाली भी समस्या नहीं रही की यह तो हिन्दू नाम हैं क्योंकि उपेंद्र जी ने हमारी यह शंका भी दूर कर दी हैं की नाम के आधार पर धर्म नहीं हैं :applause:

 

[swaich]

OK, suppose neither Guru Nanak nor you have any caste or in other words you both belong to same caste. Still you (Sikhs) have master on your head (irrespective of any caste)

Nope. Let me explain again - Caste of the founder DOES NOT become the supreme Caste.

 

[swaich]

Why don't you elaborate on the flaws/inconsistencies in the Sikh religion? Or is it picture perfect? I am yet to read any post by you where you have dealt in detail about the flaws in Sikhism. You have a grudge against Hindus primarily because you had some bad experience post 1984 and you take out that grudge in some way or the other and what better way to do it than do it online? Considering the fact that Hindus were also massacred in Punjab during militancy, yet I am yet to see the Hindus cursing Sikhism. In fact, a lot of the migrants Hindus from Punjab still visit Gurudwaras despite being uprooted from their homes by the Sikh militants.

Your favourite pastime is to criticize Hinduism because that's the easiest to do and because some misguided Hindus do it themselves (instead of reforming it further).

As usual you are getting personal and start questioning and assuming motives when you run out of arguments.

I have highlighted flaws in Sikhism and Sikh society many times. Every community, society, religion has flaws. Nothing is perfect.

You don't know me, so stop making personal comments about what I experienced or not.