A Nation Divided!

[shokeen123]

Where art thou O sweet democracy? As hours went by the glimmer of hope faded for my favorite party candidate. And yes, I am officially mourning (accepting sympathy calls) for the loss and preparing to hibernate in vain efforts to contain my disappointment on the election result sure to linger on my mind for weeks to come! By all accounts the Democrats had a clear advantage among masses at large, and had more than a probable chance to win the election – but once again my long daily commute will be marred by painful glares at the car in front of me bearing live remnants of the “other” party symbols.

People around the world are stunned by the election in America because a lot is at stake on the world map, however, for now all that seems immaterial. The state I live and voted in had been sidelined for months as its few electoral votes were safely locked in for Kerry. The key battleground states took precedence over all else because of their sheer number. The born again Christian was able to hold on to his sparsely populated rural evangelical base with deep-rooted moral doctrine of extreme conservatism on a few key issues. Morality stood test of time when it came to defining a marriage (between a man and a woman), and preserving and protecting the human life (abortion) at all stages took center stage with respect to the modern stem cell research theme. I emphatically endorse marriage between a man and a woman, but I beg to differ on the latter.

The media pundits were not off the target. Even our own Fareed Zakaria (News Week International) got the much-needed exposure on ABC. And for all that is worth the pundits seem to have won the right to continue forecasting and maneuvering the spin mill in desired direction. So the burning question is who among the democrats has the stomach to face the next election? It was determined that the name “Edwards” on the ticket, an energizer from the southern belt might influence the constituents there - but to his utter dismay his own home state of North Carolina voted him out! How does one challenge the electoral process, or powers that be in its implementation? Not an easy task by a long shot. Not unless the democrats can produce a dynamic contender or change their stand on gay marriage, abortion and polices on terrorism and war. Somehow, the nostalgia about Bill Clinton seems to have crept and refreshed our memories of a prosperous era with the world at a somewhat relative peace.

I had not voted to participate in the “Mr. popularity contest” nor was I biased by the prevailing sentiments about the intellectual articulation of the favored candidate during the debates -- my vote had to do with serious hardcore issues facing America, internationally as well as at home of which I am now a stakeholder. I have not personally gained or lost anything. Life for me will go on as usual, but certainly my belief in democracy has been somewhat shaken, and the validation that money can actually influence the outcome of the most powerful political process in the world, has been reinforced. Sentiments are often driven by an ideological philosophy that conjures a fair balance between meeting the needs of a common man, e.g., right to education, employment and health care, and the broader moderate worldview on issues such as the right to exercise diplomacy in foreign relations. Nonetheless, if for no other reason, I want to hold on to my own conviction in democracy despite the temporary setback. I am hoping that in four more years the political landscape might change in favor of the common man!

Oh…by the way one slim chance for the democrats next time around may be… if they can replace the sitting governor in Florida with a Democrat and if they can conduct a much vigorous door-to-door campaign in Ohio to sway the votes!

 

[raj2rif]

Dear Sujata Ji,

Well, it is a disappointment with many people. Kerry looked like a winner close to pooling day. I myself was in favor of Kerry. My differences with Mr. Bush is on foreign policy issues. In the war against terrorism his biggest ally is the one where terrorism breeds and develops. But then that is American interests and my views may be taken as prejudiced or biased.

The issue is that we have not found WMDs in Iraq till date. North Korea on the other hand has WMDs but we did not invade it, I feel because they don't have oil. And what about Saudi Arabia. Maximum terrorists are coming from that nation, another ally in war on terrorism.

Some thing needs to be done to improve America's foreign policy. Under Mr. Bush's presidency we have made more enemies of America than friends and that is not a good sign.

For the election debacle, democrats are themselves to be blamed. No one can deny that Mr. Bush does not have popular vote this time.

 

[sansanwalamit]

touching view

BuaJee,
I did not come across such a touching view about this unfortunate happening anywhere else, not even in NYTimes. Just like you I am also very moved by this unjustice happening in this world.
I remember a line from Angels in America "that the world has become very old", and when this outcome of the elections definitly makes this thought strong. US is a very divided nation indeed, there is big gap between the mindsets of people. And we all know about this gap, what disheartens me is stereotypes seem to be working so well in US. Now it is so clear that US has a majority of insecure, racist, intolerant well in one word rednecks. And funny thing is that those redneck states were all coloured in red in the EV map and all the ones that went democrat were placid blue, I am sure its not a coincedence
I am happy.thankful and proud that I am in Canada, I live in the most conservative province of Canada, but in comparison with US states it would fall in category of liberal new england states.
All we can do is now sit and wait to see more innocents dying in guise of war on terrorism, people loosing jobs and opportunities which are going overseas, people being discriminated on the basis of their colour, race, sexuality, etc. what a show it is going to be.
I am also disappointed with democrats as firstly they could not find someone who could address the issues well enough, I could find no reason of giving so much air to issues like Gay Marriage and Abortion, which are more or so moral issues than political issues and this totally worked against them. I admire Democrats for their excellent fiscal policies, foreign policies, welfare policies, and I was not impressed by what Kerry had to offer, still I wanted him to win, as anything is better than a brainless, racist, lifeless redneck cowboy.
Another thing I noticed that most of Indian immigrants are republicans, well I am very much aware of the avarice for money in the Indian immigrants and they do favour tax cuts more than equality and I would say respect in society, but isnt this the time when there should be some changes. I wish you and all other members in US good luck and I still hope for a better tomorrow in this world.

 

[shokeen123]

You got that right Amit...

Would one of the moderators kindly remove the second posting. Thanks.

 

[raj2rif]

Dear Sujata Ji and Amit Ji,

Very well analyzed. I am neither a democrat nor a republican, even though I am more inclined towards democrates. The issue here is what went wrong in 2000 as well as 2004 for them. Did they run an effective campaign. In 2000 it was seen that Mr. Gore messed up the first debate. In 2004 Bush did the same and yet won. So what is the difference? I don't agree that Republicans spent more money than democrats. The study shows that during this election, Mr. Kerry was able to muster more money then Mr. Bush.

The demorcrats if they wish to win in 2008, have to start their work now. Not only they lost Presidential Election, they also lost a lot in Senate. They really need to do some serious soul searching.

On Inidan immigrants, I totally agree that they are short sighted and most of them have voted for Republicans because of only tax cut issue. The most important thing for America today is to understand her foreign policy. Under Mr. Bush that has been the weakest point.

I hope Democrats find a worthwhile candidate who can challange Rudy Juliani in 2008 for he seems to be a definite Republican Candidate.

 

[rkumar]

I am sorry that I am not able to see Sujata ji's views here. Being a frequent visitor to USA, I have observed lots of chnages there is last 30 years. As far as their foreign policy is concerned, it has always been like a corporate policy where performance is evaluated quarterly. USA never had a long term policy. They decide everything on case to case basis. I am of the view that USA has got now divided once for all. The empire has almost fallen and from now on it will have presidents who will be incapable of carrying the nation together. If one looks into history, this is how empires fall. Today USA has no significant person in any party who commands international respect and following. Like what happened in post Aurangzeb era in India, same is happening in USA. Corrupt ex-CEOs have invaded USA politics and occupy most of the positions. Saudis have been historical horse traders and they know that USA politicians or for that matter any politicinas can be bought over. Like USSR exploded, USA is on its way to implode.

As far as Indians in USA are concerned, they are certainly guided by financial interests. The reason being simple. They went to USA with that single motive. USA being a nationa of immigrants has been held together so far becuase of the economic benifits it has been able to provide. Now that seems to fading and the result will be falling apart of all immigrants along their ethnic backgrounds. This will happen for sure during our life time. Empires do not take too long times to fall. British have become insignificant in 50 years and Russia just in 10 years. USA won't be around as world power in next 20-30 years except if mirracles happen.

My very sincere and honest advice to all fellow Indians is to have some investments back in India as well, else they will regret it some day soon. Not only outsourcing, lots of R & D is also shifting from USA to other countries. Production is shifting. Many unknown things will happen in next four years..

Regards
Rajendra

 

[shokeen123]

Four More Years!

Dear Colonel Tavathia:

“The democrats if they wish to win in 2008, have to start their work now.”

I couldn’t agree more that when it comes to the Republicans, they are ruthless! They don’t leave any stone unturned. I believe the biggest elements of surprise for the Democrats were overconfidence and complacency. They took it for granted that Florida couldn’t be repeated but forgot all about Ohio! Although I would in their defense like to point out that Florida was still a wild card and to everyone’s surprise it did somehow turn out to be in their favor. Even the Floridians believed they had it right this time! I was talking to a friend in the south the other day, I said the “hurricane factor” with the outpouring of billions of dollars might play well in favor of the Republicans, but my friend vehemently denied and said that this wasn’t going to happen, but sadly it did! I wonder whatever happened to those thousands of lawyer and the fuel ready planes that were to take off at the slightest hunt of irregularity? The Ohio fiasco even though legally over, may still hold some mystery. The Republicans had obtained a court order to place their lawyers inside the polling areas, and a lot of people believe that far too many provisional ballets were rendered invalid because of intimidation. Only God knows the truth!

Edwards can still ignite sparks, but for him or any Democrat to win the work must start now. Perhaps they should combine Howard Dean’s Internet base, Bill Clinton’s magic on the minority and John Edwards’ southern charm that might appeal to the religious base. But then politics are so complex and unpredictable, lets say next time the key battleground states go to the blue column (PA, FL OH); the other party may have some trick up their sleeve! I bet this time they are going to eye the traditionally blue states that can be swayed – remember their last minute desperate attempt in Hawaii? One thing is certain for the Democrats; they invariably have to have a strong base in the rural mid western states.

I also believe that Americans tend to run out of patience and a lot might happen in the next four years with regard to Iraq and terrorism. No one knows the truth, but in the meantime there is Saturday Night Live!

WMDs? What are they?

 

[shokeen123]

Rajendraji:

You reserve the right to your opinion, and I feel privileged to express mine! No one is disputing as to what fancies your mood for I believe in the common saying “one man’s treasure is another man’s trash.” While you frequent visiting USA, I live and breathe here and have therefore based my opinions on what I observed in the past few months on the US political landscape, and what also appears to be the concurrence of worldview (Try BBC).

I don’t want to go too far back in history, perhaps because I am willing to see the present from a more humane perspective. Somehow you seem to have sharper memory of Aurangzeb, while you have forgotten the much recent ten thousand days war in Vietnam! I don’t like to see innocent people in Iraq, including, women and children being killed and nor do I like the 18-20 year old American boys dying in vain. One of the stations (CBS) pays homage to the fallen heroes each evening as Pentagon releases their names. You should see the snapshots of their childhood and vibrant adolescent years -- they didn’t get to enjoy the robust US economy. I tend to reason with objectivity; we can’t prevent famine in Africa, earthquake in San Francisco; and a cyclone in Bangla Desh, but shrewd politicians can peacefully negotiate religious discord in places like Iraq, Gaza Strip and Belfast. Destruction of life in any part of the world is meaningless, especially for political or religious strife (of course that’s where the evil is rooted!). And while I could care less about the economy and tax cuts, I do worry about the possibility of a protracted war, draft and terrorist attack waiting to happen. God forbid if one happened to be traveling in a subway in New York and there were trouble aboard one will not be handpicked and “rescued” from death because his political view is that of a capitalist. World trade building didn’t chose people of high or low hierarchy; there were immigrants from 80 nations who were fathers and sons, mothers, and daughters and brothers and sisters.

Quite surprisingly your views don’t differ much from mine with regard to corruption, except that you view the US foreign policy to be a corporate oriented quarterly performance evaluation whereas I see North Korea, and Iran at the brink of nuclear disaster! There are no two schools of thoughts on the morality issue, that is, where immorality reins humanity fails and empires crumble. So with that token how can the immigrants who are now part and parcel of the US political and economical process be salvaged from doom if there were to be one? Every immigrant who takes the pledge to be part of the dream (to improve their financial stand) must also accept responsibility that he or she can not subscribe to the idea of a selective ideology, one that separates him or her from this nation’s moral, financial or cultural decay!

What is wrong in wishing if only America had chosen a peace friendly leader? Corruption and political instability is not only akin to the US, UK or Russia, you think all is well with the Indian politics, or in the Mid East region? There are terrorist cells all across Europe; madrasas in our own backyard preaching hatred. No one has a surefire remedy or a strategy to predict political harmony or upheaval, but wars are decided by leaders often for power. Perhaps you have not heard terms like “Theocracy” and “United States of Europe” (USE) that are now fast sprouting in our vocabulary.

Finally, perfection is not my forte, and I don’t consider myself to be a political strategist, my intent to post the message was to simply share the anguish I felt along with the fifty percent of the Americans who felt something was amiss!

And by no means do I have any magical hold on the will of Indians who want to exercise their right to financial gains, or a Republican label.

 

[rkumar]

Rajendraji:

I don’t want to go too far back in history, perhaps because I am willing to see the present from a more humane perspective. Somehow you seem to have sharper memory of Aurangzeb, while you have forgotten the much recent ten thousand days war in Vietnam! I don’t like to see innocent people in Iraq, including, women and children being killed and nor do I like the 18-20 year old American boys dying in vain. One of the stations (CBS) pays homage to the fallen heroes each evening as Pentagon releases their names. You should see the snapshots of their childhood and vibrant adolescent years -- they didn’t get to enjoy the robust US economy.

Response: The very foundation of USA is based upon such behavoir. Original inhabitants, the so called Red Indians were mercylessly anihilated like sheeps and goats by the European immigrants. Old habits die hard and they are continuing the same. People in USA will live with anything till it does not affect their economy. Only some genetic engineering can change this US behaviour.


Quite surprisingly your views don’t differ much from mine with regard to corruption, except that you view the US foreign policy to be a corporate oriented quarterly performance evaluation whereas I see North Korea, and Iran at the brink of nuclear disaster!

Response: Yes our viewws are fairly similar, though not entirely. I don't understand why North Korea and Iran's nuclear programmes are viewd differently than those of USA, UK and France. USA is the only country which has the bad record of dropping Atom bombs on human population. If there is one country which can not be trusted in misusing nuclear power, its USA..


What is wrong in wishing if only America had chosen a peace friendly leader?

Response: Powerful Arms loby in USA will never let it happen.

There are terrorist cells all across Europe; madrasas in our own backyard preaching hatred. No one has a surefire remedy or a strategy to predict political harmony or upheaval, but wars are decided by leaders often for power. Perhaps you have not heard terms like “Theocracy” and “United States of Europe” (USE) that are now fast sprouting in our vocabulary.

Response: Totally agree with you. But then who invented all these new methods of war? It was the USA who sided with theologists of middle eat and Pakistan to get the Soviets out of Afganistan. Arms dealers and Army dictators benefited. USA will continue to be contolled by arm dealers as fr as I can see.

Rajendra

 

[ratananmol]

election results

I think we should consider some token compensation for an insightful and careful analysis done by Sujata Buajee;
i think people should realize that some of us will end up spending our lives in this country and a complete discounting of our sentiments for this country is unrealistic and a little "abusive".
Let's be liberal and let's be democrats!
anmol.

 

[shokeen123]

I see the glass half full...

Rajendraji:

"Only some genetic engineering can change this US behavior."

Response: I see little practical futility in ad hominem philosophy. I am slightly more optimistic in that I was hoping for a practical solution, of the given two choices, one was clearly in favor of peace.

Isn’t it ironic that you still frequent USA? People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Or shall I say, you want to have the cake and eat it too!

"USA is the only country which has the bad record of dropping Atom bombs on human population. If there is one country which cannot be trusted in misusing nuclear power, its USA."

Response: Yet, something brings you frequently to the USA? I wonder why?
Isn’t it all the more reason for some of us who have a voice through a vote to try to change the present obstinate course?

"Powerful Arms lobby in USA will never let it happen."

Response: Good willed people must try even with obstacles abound - I had a feeling Kerry would have sought UN help -- the whole world including Europe was ready for a change and willing to be part of the alliance to end the nightmare. Tony Blair has become an outcast in his own country.

"But then who invented all these new methods of war? It was the USA who sided with theologists of middle eat and Pakistan to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan."

Response: People like Michael Moore, Bob Woodward, Kitty Kelley and many more tried to highlight the truth so that a more peaceful and amicable solution could have been achieved through change in leadership.

 

[rkumar]

Sujata Ji,

Here is my prescription to most of the man made problems. I am fully convinced that if not all, it will address most of the world problems;

1. World should become VISA free place and the right to work should be made universal.

2. 10% of the jobs in every country should be filled be universally, purely based upon the merit.

3. 10% of all lesiglators in every country must be electred globally and they must have the same powers and rights as local ones.

This prescription might sound unrealistic, but to me its very practical and can be implemented without much difficulty. This will be the first step in breaking artificial national bareers which are the root cause of most international problems.

Rajendra

 

[shailendra]

Rajendraji:

"Only some genetic engineering can change this US behavior."

Response: I see little practical futility in ad hominem philosophy. I am slightly more optimistic in that I was hoping for a practical solution, of the given two choices, one was clearly in favor of peace.

Isn’t it ironic that you still frequent USA? People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Or shall I say, you want to have the cake and eat it too!

"USA is the only country which has the bad record of dropping Atom bombs on human population. If there is one country which cannot be trusted in misusing nuclear power, its USA."

Response: Yet, something brings you frequently to the USA? I wonder why?
Isn’t it all the more reason for some of us who have a voice through a vote to try to change the present obstinate course?

"Powerful Arms lobby in USA will never let it happen."

Response: Good willed people must try even with obstacles abound - I had a feeling Kerry would have sought UN help -- the whole world including Europe was ready for a change and willing to be part of the alliance to end the nightmare. Tony Blair has become an outcast in his own country.

"But then who invented all these new methods of war? It was the USA who sided with theologists of middle eat and Pakistan to get the Soviets out of Afghanistan."

Response: People like Michael Moore, Bob Woodward, Kitty Kelley and many more tried to highlight the truth so that a more peaceful and amicable solution could have been achieved through change in leadership.

Sujata,

I think one must not forget that be it Democrats or the Republicans...the US policy makers are still guided by the basic same principles! Let's not think by kidding ourselves that a new President would have suddenly become a 'Phele poori Dunia se poochunga ke hume (USA) ko aage kya karna hai!"... That would be living in a foolhardy world! It's the USA we are talking about afterall!...Those are all just voting time tactics of trying to be distinctly opposite to your opponent and nothing else...

Also, it is important to note that the general opinion of an American public is very much guided by what kind of image the 'First' family projects too...[Unfortunately we all know where the now First lady again stands in comparison to Mrs. Kerry! Who by the way is of immigrant blood, something that though not an open issue, matters to the red necks!!! ]... Secondly, when it comes to the President's image and standing as the Leader of the free world; it was for nothing that Kerry was called more of a Flip-flop, cause if you followed the debates, his desperate move to be more assertive was still contrasted by being very ambiguous and 'I have a Plan' kind of rhetoric statements! I hated even more the smug, silly look on Bush's face but then give it to the guy that he did not flinch about his decisions (right or wrong!...well, mostly wrong! )
So actually it was a case of who is worse and everyone's vain hope that there could have been a third contestant!!!

All in all, now the best thing is to probably sit back and give the guy a chance, hopefully the fall out of all this must give his policy makers a reason to rethink strategies and try and have him live up to the American public standards a bit much more!

 

[anujkumar]

Why do they bother? And why do we?" BBC cameraman Jason Ellson implored me.


President Bush won voters with his down-to-earth style
I had to confess I had no answer. We had slept for under three hours. I had actually paid the hotel bill when we arrived and we'd been on the road to Wilmington for 45 minutes without exchanging so much as a word.

For once Matt and Ron Skeans, our other cameraman, had managed a lie in.

Of course there was something of the jaded cynic in both Jason's question and my failure to respond.

We had, naturally, seen too much of him, George that is. The old stump speech was just that - old.

And all four of us could do every line - inflection and nuance included.

My particular favourite - the Laura line - "The most important reason to re-elect me is so that Laura can be your First Lady for four more years" - always got a laugh from us, because no matter how many times he said it, it got a big roar of approval from them.

And still I had no answer.

'You know where I stand'

And then there it was - on the final morning of the campaign, on the road to Wilmington, Ohio - a pre-dawn revelation at the corner of Hunter Drive.

In that instant, I knew why. And I knew deep down why that why was about to return George W Bush to the White House.

Red brake lights bumper to bumper for miles ahead. "Because they care," I told Jason.


The most important reason to re-elect me is so that Laura can be your First Lady for four more years

President George W Bush
On that corner, and in that freezing aircraft hanger where Bush swept in on Marine One, and in the streets of small-town America we met Republicans yes, but we also met the undecided, the independents, even the "Bush" Democrat.

And every one had the same explanation - they were voting for Bush because he was their president, running their country, in a time of war.

Nothing more, nothing less. Why rock that boat?

Americans revere the office, not the man, but in choosing the man, they want someone who befits the office, and in a time of war that office befitted George W Bush best.

So as the president himself often said: "You may not like what I stand for, but at least you know where I stand."

True of Iraq, true of national security, true of those much-talked about moral values.

He had a position, he stuck to it, and yes, it made him, on occasion, appear to some as stubborn or even arrogant. But it also made him appear strong.

And when it comes to "us and them" America will, it seems, always choose strong.

The 'wow' factor

There are of course more complicated reasons. There had never been a post-9/11 election before, because there had never been a 9/11.

Bush can be engaging, charming, even witty. Kerry, more often than not, was none of these.

And then there was the brilliantly played 'Rove hand', dealt by Bush's chief planner Karl Rove.


Bush's political packaging
The Rove/Bush doctrine of the three Fs - Family, Faith and Flag - hit home, where it mattered most, in heartland America.

Fear that the three Fs would be eroded under John Kerry was enough to mobilise millions of evangelical Christians who hadn't voted in 2000.

Wherever we travelled, one line more than any other brought the biggest cheer of the night.

The one about family values brought conservative America to its feet and sent them home happy in the knowledge that Dubya was the guardian of their moral, as well as their physical, security.

And then there was the simple fact that the president looked presidential. However hard you tried, you simply couldn't help feeling 'wow'.

I remember travelling to New Hampshire with Laura Bush. In her motorcade, on her plane, close enough to talk to her.

Which we did, and yes she's as normal as she seems. It made me think: "If I'm impressed what must these small town folk think of it all?"

Passionate, but stage-managed

Folk in places like Richland Center in Wisconsin. Five thousand strong, a remote windswept town on Highway 14 West.

Bush arrived on a rainy Wednesday lunchtime. So did the entire town.

He'd come because he had too, he needed the votes, they'd come because they wanted to...because the president was visiting.


When the President came to town, people listened
One woman in the line, a teacher at the High School, told us she'd encouraged all her pupils to "come visit the President", that it was "such an honour he was bothering with Richland Center".

Matt asked her if she'd be voting for Bush. "Probably not," she replied. Later on, watching her watch him, I wasn't so sure.

Of course much of the campaign was aggressively stage managed. The die-hard were bussed in from miles around.

"Bombard them enough and eventually the message sticks," was how one junior aide described it.

The warm-up acts at these set-piece rallies were often a mix of celebrity, politician, or minister. Invariably, they involved a prayer, a pledge, a stirring rendition of the anthem.

But they were also about the ordinary American. The small-business owner, worried about being taxed out of existence by those "nasty" Democrats.

Or the mum, who, regardless of her husband's recent redundancy, apparently shared the president's views on family, stem cell research, partial birth abortion, the sanctity of marriage. Clever stuff.

Not once did we face the "Blair moment" - the type of moment where mid-speech the speaker is interrupted by a small but vocal group of protesters. The secret service would never have allowed it.

And besides, you couldn't help but feel the Republicans had vetted everyone days ahead of time.

Yes, people really did care about all this. That, more than anything, was the most encouraging thing about this election.

'Very heated, very quickly'

I was transfixed by the response of thousands of students at the University of Miami, site of the opening presidential debate. For 90 minutes no-one went to the bar, no-one talked, no-one lurched drunkenly across campus.

They just concentrated really hard on the big screens in front of them. They chuckled when Bush mangled the odd sentence, whooped when Kerry and flip-flop appeared in the same sentence, applauded when the candidates found the right tone.

And afterwards, these kids stood in line to talk to the television cameras, and what they said was both informed and eloquent.


John Kerry's efforts to show his playful side were less effective
And yes we found division, everywhere we went.

In Boulder, Colorado, we met Steve and Susan Kremm and their two sons, Democrats who couldn't quite believe Bush was their president.

"You just can't talk about this election without it getting heated, very heated, very quickly," Susan told us.

"How can the American public be so stupid", lamented Steve, "To swallow that line about Iraq being a threat, it's a disgrace!"

Just 100 miles south, in Colorado Springs, we met Chuck and Vicky Broerman and their four girls.

Staunch Catholics who admired the president. A strong leader, a man of conviction, a man of family.

"It's the future of the world at stake," Vicky told us. "And only George Bush knows how to defend us, and keep us safe."

Chuck, Vicky and the girls won the day, along with 59 million others. Nearly 56 million saw it differently.

Will George W Bush reach out to them? He says he wants to. Whether they want him to - well, that's another story.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3990771.stm

 

[raj2rif]

Dear Rajendra Ji,

You have said that your views may be unrealistic. Yes I strongly agree with that. I have failed to understand that if it looks unrealistic, how could it be practical. The kind of suggestion you have given will make the world a total mess. Imagine the terrorist entring different nations with impunity. You don't get a leader from another state elected unless he is supported by a big political party and you expect leaders from another country to get elected in different countries. And then they are expected to do what? Sonia Gandhi has lived in India for decades, and most people feel that she has no idea of Indian grass roots level. How do you expect leaders from different countries to do some thing meaningful in those countries that they get elected?

To be honest, I have really not understood the logic of your prescription and the benefit it would bring to the world.

Virendra





Sujata Ji,

Here is my prescription to most of the man made problems. I am fully convinced that if not all, it will address most of the world problems;

1. World should become VISA free place and the right to work should be made universal.

2. 10% of the jobs in every country should be filled be universally, purely based upon the merit.

3. 10% of all lesiglators in every country must be electred globally and they must have the same powers and rights as local ones.

This prescription might sound unrealistic, but to me its very practical and can be implemented without much difficulty. This will be the first step in breaking artificial national bareers which are the root cause of most international problems.

Rajendra

 

[rkumar]

You have said that your views may be unrealistic.

Response: I never said that. I said that my ideas might sound unrealistic. Sounding unrealistic does not mean they are unrealistic. It just tells how others might view them..
..................

Yes I strongly agree with that. I have failed to understand that if it looks unrealistic, how could it be practical. The kind of suggestion you have given will make the world a total mess.

Response: I knew that such questions will be asked. World was VISA free place till about 130 years back and one could move to any place on the Earth. VISA is a man made bareer on free human movement and is akin to creating Human ghetos. How can one talk of free world trade on the one hand and restricted human movement in the same breath?
...................................................

Imagine the terrorist entring different nations with impunity.

Response: Terrorists don't care for VISA even now and we all know how easily they can move to any country. Not only they can move almost freely, they can create their branches via internet. Many of the embassies have diplomats who coordinate such activities. Need of VISA does not bother them at all, whereas its the common man who suffers.
..................................
You don't get a leader from another state elected unless he is supported by a big political party and you expect leaders from another country to get elected in different countries. And then they are expected to do what?

Response: If 10% seats are reserved for outsiders, one does not need the support of a big party. Problems of any country are no different than the problems of humanity at large and one does not need great brains to know them. Think of USA senate represented by 10% outsiders and by same token 10% IraQ or Indian parliamnet filled by 10% outsiders. DEbates in such parliaments will never lead to wars as most issues would be resolved by understanding. Think of 10% police and Municipal posts in Delhi filled by Europens and Japanese. Delhi will be a much cleaner and much more crime free place. In todays world more and more issues are becoming of global dimension and only the global approach to the problem can solve them.
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Sonia Gandhi has lived in India for decades, and most people feel that she has no idea of Indian grass roots level. How do you expect leaders from different countries to do some thing meaningful in those countries that they get elected?

Response: Sonia Gandhi has been in India for two years more than Priyanka and 4 more years than Rahul Gandhi..IN total about 36-37 years. She has been to all corners of country many times over. She never left India even at the height of insecurity to her family. This shows the commitment of a person to the society. I don't agree that she knows little about Indian society. She certainly knows much more than ladies like Vasundhara Raje etc..and on a lighter note if Sujata knows so much about USA and the worthyness of its presidents, why Sonia Gandhi should not know about India and its needs ?
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To be honest, I have really not understood the logic of your prescription and the benefit it would bring to the world.

Response: I hope that my above explanations would make my points a bit more clear. UN is a crude form of what my prescription is. Or conversely my prescription is an upgradation of United Nations.

Rajendra

 

[raj2rif]

Dear Rajendra Ji,

I am impressed by your efforts to convince me, but I am sorry they fall much short of it.

You said sounding unrealistic does not mean they are unrealistic. Then what are they and if they are realistic then why do they sound unrealistic.

Secondly, you talk about solving most problems by dialogue in a parliament or senate, which has 10% memeber from outside nations. Kindly explain how those 10% people will be able to win a majority vote to get their agenda passed. In democratic forums some times party having 49% votes fails to get its agenda passed. If 10% votes can pass an agenda in a democratic society, and that is realistic as you advocate, then I have no comments to make and grant you that point.

Thirdly, Sujata Ji knowing more about US presidency and Sonia Gandhi knowing more about Indian problems, I don't want to discuss this issue, for the simple reason, Sujata ji is not a political leader while Sonia Gandhi is. So comparision is irrelevent.

Now your, own views that Sonia Gandhi knows much more about India then what people say, well, one person's view does not make a difference in a democratic society. Imagine, a leader like Ch. Charan Singh who knew the exact problems faced by the farmers, while Mr. Nehre did not know as much even though he lived in India more than Sonia Gandhi.

The next point is terrorists don't care about VISAs. Agreed. We all know the thiefs break the locks, yet we use them. Yet we shut the doors. Even in our own house we have different bed rooms, living rooms etc. Why have these man made barriers, why not have a free world within a house. So, the point I am trying to bring out is that we all need to be free but we all need to have our own privacy as well. Visa, instrument does makes the terrorists cautious. If they still get through is not becasue the system is bad, but because some one in the system is dishonest. In a real world these problems will continue and we keep finding solutions to prevent them. That is where we have gone and invented the security cameras and other means of survelliance.

You talk about 10% of foreign police in Delhi. Well we had 100% of it prior to 1947. Why did we get rid of it?

You are talking about the larger perspective of UN. The current UN was unable to stop any war, and you percieve the larger one will be able to do some thing. I guess, if we can strengthen the current one, many problems will be solved. The UN would have prevented the war but for the personal interests of the nations, who were helping Saddam Hussain to manipulate the UN sanctions. While I don't support the war in Iraq, as it was started, I certainly don't regrett, Saddam's removal.

The concept of free world is good. You are talking about 130 years ago no visa. Probably yes, as I am not very good with history. All that I know is all the invaders were opposed by every nation irrespective of the fact whether they succeeded or not. Could that be considered as the old form of visa, preventing unauthorized person from entering the country or state.

One can keep arguing on these issues till cows come home, but the fact is in real world we need to look things with a real and practical perspective. We may imagine the world becoming what it was in Ramayan era, but can that really happen. Let us discuss where we can go from where we are now.

 

[rkumar]

Dear Col. Tavathia ,

The 10% representation is not to win majority. The main role of this representation would be to let the concerned country know how the rest of the world feels about any particular policy of that country. Effectively each country would have its final say, but only after giving due regards to what rest of the world feels about and how rest of the world is affected by that policy. Being physically present in the country, these 10% senators or MPs will have more realistic views of the people of that country and not just the views biased by media. These outsider memebrs will infuse new thinking in the otherwise closed systems. Same is true of 10% civic servents from outside. Think of 10% professors from outside and teaching in a University like Patna. Won't that benefit thousands of students who otherwise have to travel to west? I strong feel that such system will bring great benefits to the world as that will remove so many misgivings about each other.

Why should invasions take place when there are no rigid national boundaries? Barrers are the main cause of all problems. Rooms in a house can not be compared to countries. Rooms are more to let each member of family feel like doing things at the times of their choosing without affecting other memebrs. However, same is not true of nations.

If some 26 nations can form what we call European Union, hell won't break loose if same thing can happen for the entire world. After all this is just adding more numbers. This is the only way we can get rid of expansive war machinary and benifit the millions who are starving. United Nation in its present form can never solve this as all those posted there are nothing more than simple individuals nominated by their governments. They just sing the same songs as their heads of states. They are far removed from the realities of common people and their suffereings. 99% of the world population does not even know by name who these people are and what they stand for.

Fact is that people of the world have been divided by narrow national identities in eaxctly the same way as they have been divided along caste and religious lines inside the countries.

Human migration is as natural as migration of birds and other wild animals. We all know that all the human never migrate. However, those who wish to migrate, should be allowed to so. The process must be multilateral so that there is balance of numbers in most natural way. May I ask few questions here;

1. Who gave rights to few thousand British who happened to arrive in Australia before others and then claiming the whole continent to be theirs? Did it ever have any sanction from any world authority? Same I suppose can be asked about Canada and many other similar countries.

2. Will Australia, Canada and many of these countries will continue to be empty while many countries like India are getting so crowded ?

I strongly believe that the Earth belongs to us all and we must have the freedom to move. Unless this freedom is made universal, conflicts will continue.

Regards
Rajendra

 

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

Wish you all a Very Happy Diwali.

So what even if millions across the world are suffering pain and death because of man made disasters, it is fashionable to discuss 'World Politics', 'Revamping the Polity of the World', 'Visa free society' and hundred other issues that have actually no bearing on our immediate problems. God cries everyday when he sees his 'so called creation' called human being. I am sure HE reads our website too!!!

Since it is festival time I don't want to get into very controvertial arguments for the simple reason that I am not available for the next 10 days. So I don't want to agree or disagree with anyone's comments on this thread as most of the contributors are achievers in their respective fields.

Charity begins at home. I am totally engrossed in problems that have a bearing on my loved ones. Let George Bush climb a tree. It doesn't matter to me whether he bombs Iraq or Iran. When he decides to Bomb India, I will think, plan and fight for the saftey of my loved ones.

Sonia Gandhi ran away to Italy with 'Baba Log' during the 1971 war. An information for those who think otherwise. And if that was not enough, during the Anti Sikh Riots of 1984, obviously started at the behest of our Bharat Ratna Rajiv Gandhi, she again ran to Italian Embassy with 'Baba Log'.

I haven't seen Sujata Ji but had she been a politician, she would surely make a better leader than Sonia Gandhi. I have no doubt about that.

10% professors in Patna university from outside!!! HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA Rajender Ji, 90% of Bihar's educated are as it is outside Bihar milking this nation dry. My suggestion is to increase the quota for outsiders for Biharto 90%. And I suggest CHECHANS OR POLES.

I always visit a village everytime I go to Haryana/UP. The aim is simple. It reminds me of how I have let down my own people by doing nothing for their betterment. May be this guilt factor would keep the fire in the belly burning to do some good for our less fortunate people. However on JATLAND we can keep discussing UN, European Union, Globalisation, Terrorism, World as a Village, Economic Reforms etc. etc. Ke gohj mein te aana kharch ho se.

RAM RAM,

JS Malik

 

[rkumar]

Sonia Gandhi ran away to Italy with 'Baba Log' during the 1971 war. An information for those who think otherwise. And if that was not enough, during the Anti Sikh Riots of 1984, obviously started at the behest of our Bharat Ratna Rajiv Gandhi, she again ran to Italian Embassy with 'Baba Log'.

I haven't seen Sujata Ji but had she been a politician, she would surely make a better leader than Sonia Gandhi. I have no doubt about that.

JS Malik

Malik Sahab ! I totally endorse your views on this. Why don't we invite Sujata to lead the nation. I am sure Sujata will defeat Sonia by huge majority. India certainly needs a Jatni prime minister now...

RK^2