A New State

desijat said:
Newer states are formed so resources can be used better, proper governance can take place. Do some research around new formed states such as UK, Chattisgarh and Jharkhand and how they grew after being carved as new states.

And not just Maddhan, I would also want western UP to be a new state. Can you imagine someone fighting a case in Allahbad HC and travelling regularly from Bagpat?
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Can you give me any other reason besides HC? I said it before and saying it again, not every case goes to HC plus why not utilize technology where one can appear via videolink? Western Australia is 75% of India in terms of size with Perth as capital which is where the Supreme court of WA is. Driving distance could be more than 2000 miles for some towns, flying cost will also hit the hip pocket but there isn't any need to divide it. Why fix it if it ain't broken? Cong just opened pandora's box by doing so. They are saying HYD will serve as common capital for first 10 years. And after that? Do you think the other state would let go HYD? Similar situation as of PJB & HR.
nafrat to hindustani ke dil me bhari hoti hai, ki yo falaane state ka yo bihari yo UP ka. Who knows dheere-2 inme bhi vahi sentiment ghus jaaye.
If you're saying that new state will generate more jobs, well, then lets have a few more.
 
I will answer your question Pannu but at the outset let me tell you that BJP started Pandoras box in 2000 with 3 new states, so blaming one party if at all isnt fair.

Coming to your point and I will speak to UPs reference here, UP would be 4th biggest nation by population if it were a country. UPs population is 10 TIMES of Australia, let alone the Western Australia. A govt governs people, not empty land masses. If I go by your logic only, UP needs to craft 10 states, not 4 as demanded.

Now historic examples(an excerpt from an Economist article):

Uttarakhand, a hilly corner chopped from UP, recorded rapid economic growth and social gains, easily outperforming UP. New tax breaks and a surge in tourism helped.

Chhattisgarh, backward but resource-rich and once a part of Madhya Pradesh, is doing much better economically than before. Its chief minister, Raman Singh, boasts of consistently high growth. He expects to win re-election this year thanks to better delivery of public food rations.

Jharkhand in eastern India has faltered after separating from Bihar. But the rump of Bihar itself has thrived, with double-digit economic growth and striking social progress since the divorce. Once a byword for backwardness, the state is doing well under a local leader.
 
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किसी भी मीडिया की इतनी जुर्रत नहीं हुई जो इस तश्वीर को दिखा सके .....

अनंतपुर आन्ध्र प्रदेश में राज्य के बंटवारे के विरोध में छात्रों और लोगो ने राजीव गाँधी की प्रतिमा तोड़कर गिरा दी
ये उस बदलाव का प्रतीक है कि देश गाँधी परिवार के शासन से मुक्त होना चाहता है ...!!

सही में हो रहा भारत निर्माण ..





 
VPannu said:
Can you give me any other reason besides HC? I said it before and saying it again, not every case goes to HC plus why not utilize technology where one can appear via videolink? Western Australia is 75% of India in terms of size with Perth as capital which is where the Supreme court of WA is. Driving distance could be more than 2000 miles for some towns, flying cost will also hit the hip pocket but there isn't any need to divide it. Why fix it if it ain't broken? Cong just opened pandora's box by doing so. They are saying HYD will serve as common capital for first 10 years. And after that? Do you think the other state would let go HYD? Similar situation as of PJB & HR.
nafrat to hindustani ke dil me bhari hoti hai, ki yo falaane state ka yo bihari yo UP ka. Who knows dheere-2 inme bhi vahi sentiment ghus jaaye.
If you're saying that new state will generate more jobs, well, then lets have a few more.
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There are as many reasons as people living in Western UP.
 
desijat said:
I will answer your question Pannu but at the outset let me tell you that BJP started Pandoras box in 2000 with 3 new states, so blaming one party if at all isnt fair.

Coming to your point and I will speak to UPs reference here, UP would be 4th biggest nation by population if it were a country. UPs population is 10 TIMES of Australia, let alone the Western Australia. A govt governs people, not empty land masses. If I go by your logic only, UP needs to craft 10 states, not 4 as demanded.

Now historic examples(an excerpt from an Economist article):

Uttarakhand, a hilly corner chopped from UP, recorded rapid economic growth and social gains, easily outperforming UP. New tax breaks and a surge in tourism helped.

Chhattisgarh, backward but resource-rich and once a part of Madhya Pradesh, is doing much better economically than before. Its chief minister, Raman Singh, boasts of consistently high growth. He expects to win re-election this year thanks to better delivery of public food rations.

Jharkhand in eastern India has faltered after separating from Bihar. But the rump of Bihar itself has thrived, with double-digit economic growth and striking social progress since the divorce. Once a byword for backwardness, the state is doing well under a local leader.
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Quiet Right, in this context Eastern UP will stop looking at Western UP for development.

Eastern UP will be able to decide its own future, policies and way to development.

Borders will always be open for people from Eastern parts of UP to come, live and work in Western UP and vice versa.
I think this concept is same as for any part of India, so a person living in any part of India can go, live and work in any part, there is a freedom for everyone.
Right now the main problem is manageability of population and resources, which can best take place in a smaller state in context of Western Utter Pradesh.
 
desijat said:
I will answer your question Pannu but at the outset let me tell you that BJP started Pandoras box in 2000 with 3 new states, so blaming one party if at all isnt fair.

Coming to your point and I will speak to UPs reference here, UP would be 4th biggest nation by population if it were a country. UPs population is 10 TIMES of Australia, let alone the Western Australia. A govt governs people, not empty land masses. If I go by your logic only, UP needs to craft 10 states, not 4 as demanded.

Now historic examples(an excerpt from an Economist article):

Uttarakhand, a hilly corner chopped from UP, recorded rapid economic growth and social gains, easily outperforming UP. New tax breaks and a surge in tourism helped.

Chhattisgarh, backward but resource-rich and once a part of Madhya Pradesh, is doing much better economically than before. Its chief minister, Raman Singh, boasts of consistently high growth. He expects to win re-election this year thanks to better delivery of public food rations.

Jharkhand in eastern India has faltered after separating from Bihar. But the rump of Bihar itself has thrived, with double-digit economic growth and striking social progress since the divorce. Once a byword for backwardness, the state is doing well under a local leader.
Click to expand...
I didn't like then and I don't like now either be it BJP or Cong. I also didn't like when Hisar, Rtk were divided into smaller distts. I bought WA's example because you mentioned about travelling time/cost from Baghpat - Allahabad. Going by that logic WA must be cut to smaller pieces.
It is good to know that CG,UK, JH doing well. But is it solely because they were separated from their parent state? IMO, it is good governance due to which they have prospered. If good governance was there at first place, there probably wasn't any need of new state. The natural resources were always there.
Assume, West UP becomes a new state, with a CM someone like Mayawati or Mulayam then one can only dream about prosperity of the new state.
What about the parent state now? usko uski kismat ke bharose chhod de? le bhai hum to huve alag ab tum jaano aur tumhara kaam jaane. This is what exactly maddhan is saying above. Ki bas ek baar western UP state bana do fer eastern UP jaave bhaad me. Talking about open borders - we know only borders are open not people's hearts.
We are ending up becoming citizens of states rather than a nation.
 
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VPannu said:
I didn't like then and I don't like now either be it BJP or Cong. I also didn't like when Hisar, Rtk were divided into smaller distts. I bought WA's example because you mentioned about travelling time/cost from Baghpat - Allahabad. Going by that logic WA must be cut to smaller pieces.
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May be not because I am sure WAs roads are better, people earn more, have better means of transportation and court has less cases than UP.

Like I said, states like UP should be divided on sheer population basis.
VPannu said:
It is good to know that CG,UK, JH doing well. But is it solely because they were separated from their parent state? IMO, it is good governance due to which they have prospered. If good governance was there at first place, there probably wasn't any need of new state. The natural resources were always there.
Assume, West UP becomes a new state, with a CM someone like Mayawati or Mulayam then one can only dream about prosperity of the new state.
What about the parent state now? usko uski kismat ke bharose chhod de? le bhai hum to huve alag ab tum jaano aur tumhara kaam jaane. This is what exactly maddhan is saying above. Ki bas ek baar western UP state bana do fer eastern UP jaave bhaad me. Talking about open borders - we know only borders are open not people's hearts.
We are ending up becoming citizens of states rather than a nation.
Click to expand...

Precisely- good governance works better in smaller states where in resource allocation can be better and more tightly checked. Right now UP has the least representation from west UP and elections issues seldom cover it. But if West UP comes into place then same Mulayam and Mayawatis agenda will be to develop one perticular area and not the purab or purvanchal as well to ignore this fertile land and its people. And same logic goes for parent state too.
 
Sometime a new state is a requirement. Like Haryana, Punjab and Himachal. Before division Haryana was a neglected area. All the CMs from Punjab and they didn't care about Haryana. Not only that they tried to impose their language on us. Punjabi used to be a compulsory language for us. A language which is written in a different script and doesn't provide any added advantage career wise.

However as far as distance from the capital is concerned the answer lies in making the district more self-independent. People shouldn’t have to go to the capital city for every exam, for passport submission, for other trivial matters. Such steps will minimize people’s dependence on the capital city and for those who has to go State should ensure better connectivity by train and road. Cities like hisar doesn’t have a direct rail line to the capital Chandigarh.

It’s a myth that small State will always be better for development. I agree with Pannu on this point that it is the better use of resources and well planned development rather than the size of the state.
 
पंजाब को तोड़ना ,नेहरु -मेनन की एक राजनितिक साजिश थी । जिसमे मुख्य रूप से जाट पावर को तोड़ना था । जट्टो को आपस में भाषा ,पंथ आदि पर लड़ा कर ,उनकी असली ताकत को ख़तम करने में ये लोग सफल रहे । पंजाबी कोई पराई भाषा नहीं हे । जब में पांचवी में था तब कम से कम ८-१० अक्षर देवनागरी से हटवाये गए थे की ये अब गुरमुखी (पंजाबी ) में ही लिखे जायेंगे । यानी हमारी हिंदी में ही आधी गुरमुखी शामिल थी । वेसे भी भाषाविद हरयाणवी को "बांगरू पंजाबी "के नाम से जानते हैं जो की ३४ तरह की पंजाबी में से एक हे । जब पूरा देश ही विकासमान था ,तो ये बात उस समय पंजाब पर भी लाग्गू थी की उस के कुछ हिस्से उतने विकसित नहीं थे ,जिस प्रकार दक्सिन्न हरयाना आज भी कम विक्सित होने के लिए मुद्दा बना रहता हे । जब तक जिला स्तर पर प्रशाशन सुचारू रूप से कम नहीं करेगा तब तक कोई भी स्थान चाहे वो बड़ा हो या छोट्टा ,विकास नहीं करेगा ।
 
VPannu said:
The natural resources were always there.
Assume, West UP becomes a new state, with a CM someone like Mayawati or Mulayam then one can only dream about prosperity of the new state.
What about the parent state now? usko uski kismat ke bharose chhod de? le bhai hum to huve alag ab tum jaano aur tumhara kaam jaane. This is what exactly maddhan is saying above. Ki bas ek baar western UP state bana do fer eastern UP jaave bhaad me. Talking about open borders - we know only borders are open not people's hearts.
We are ending up becoming citizens of states rather than a nation.
Click to expand...

Pannu, Thik ho jaga jai UP divide ho ja tai...Desi nai example thik diya sai. UP ke loggan khatir badiya sai state ka divide hona..otherwise logg nyu a pareshaan hoye rehnge..Jp padh ek bai

How big is Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous state? One way of answering the question is to take its total area: 95,000 square miles (246,000 sq km). Another way is to think of it as a country. If Uttar Pradesh were to declare independence, it would be the world's fifth most populous country (as the map below shows, it has about the same number of residents as Brazil). Yet its economy would only be the size of Qatar, a tiny oil-rich state of fewer than 2m people. That makes it poor on a per person basis. Despite India's two decades of rapid growth, Uttar Pradesh's GDP per head is close to that of Kenya. The map below presents country equivalents for India's states and territories in terms of GDP, GDP per person (in PPP terms) and population. Please play around with it and tell us what you think

http://www.economist.com/content/indian-summary
 
vicky84 said:
Pannu, Thik ho jaga jai UP divide ho ja tai...Desi nai example thik diya sai. UP ke loggan khatir badiya sai state ka divide hona..otherwise logg nyu a pareshaan hoye rehnge..Jp padh ek bai

How big is Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous state? One way of answering the question is to take its total area: 95,000 square miles (246,000 sq km). Another way is to think of it as a country. If Uttar Pradesh were to declare independence, it would be the world's fifth most populous country (as the map below shows, it has about the same number of residents as Brazil). Yet its economy would only be the size of Qatar, a tiny oil-rich state of fewer than 2m people. That makes it poor on a per person basis. Despite India's two decades of rapid growth, Uttar Pradesh's GDP per head is close to that of Kenya. The map below presents country equivalents for India's states and territories in terms of GDP, GDP per person (in PPP terms) and population. Please play around with it and tell us what you think

http://www.economist.com/content/indian-summary
Click to expand...


This is an excellent educated view of looking at the problem. I hope education , common sense and logic prevails in this country.
 
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maddhan1979 said:
There seems to be some mistake with the dates?
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Friend,

Both the dates are accurate.

Further, Nehru never agreed to divide Punjab and so long as Nehru lived, he withstood tremendous pressure put by Akalis under Master Tara Singh ji but did not agree to bifurcate the Punjab. The situation changed after Pt. Nehru and S. Pratap Singh, the Chief Minister were no more.

Please remember, while questioning accuracy of dates, there is no scope for 'there seems to be' because either say they are wrong or correct !

Thanks
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Friend,

Both the dates are accurate.

Further, Nehru never agreed to divide Punjab and so long as Nehru lived, he withstood tremendous pressure put by Akalis under Master Tara Singh ji but did not agree to bifurcate the Punjab. The situation changed after Pt. Nehru and S. Pratap Singh, the Chief Minister were no more.

Please remember, while questioning accuracy of dates, there is no scope for 'there seems to be' because either say they are wrong or correct !

Thanks
Click to expand...

I read the sentence a bit different way that is why there was a bit of confusion.
I think people who grew up with writing with pen and paper tend to loose correct linguistic touch, this is happening with me.

I would have written it as:

"Pt.Nehru passed away on 27th May, 1964 and only after that Punjab was reorganized on 1st November 1966."

You wrote:

Punjab was reorganised on 1st November 1966, only after Pt. Nehru had passed away on 27th May, 1964.

Does not matter, as long as we understand each other. After all we "Jats" are all from the same blood.
Computer is ruining our linguistic skills, it seems.
 
maddhan1979 said:
I read the sentence a bit different way that is why there was a bit of confusion.
I think people who grew up with writing with pen and paper tend to loose correct linguistic touch, this is happening with me.

I would have written it as:

"Pt.Nehru passed away on 27th May, 1964 and only after that Punjab was reorganized on 1st November 1966."

You wrote:

Punjab was reorganised on 1st November 1966, only after Pt. Nehru had passed away on 27th May, 1964.

Does not matter, as long as we understand each other. After all we "Jats" are all from the same blood.
Computer is ruining our linguistic skills, it seems.
Click to expand...


I make this kind of mistake sometimes as well.
 
vicky84 said:
Pannu, Thik ho jaga jai UP divide ho ja tai...Desi nai example thik diya sai. UP ke loggan khatir badiya sai state ka divide hona..otherwise logg nyu a pareshaan hoye rehnge..Jp padh ek bai

How big is Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous state? One way of answering the question is to take its total area: 95,000 square miles (246,000 sq km). Another way is to think of it as a country. If Uttar Pradesh were to declare independence, it would be the world's fifth most populous country (as the map below shows, it has about the same number of residents as Brazil). Yet its economy would only be the size of Qatar, a tiny oil-rich state of fewer than 2m people. That makes it poor on a per person basis. Despite India's two decades of rapid growth, Uttar Pradesh's GDP per head is close to that of Kenya. The map below presents country equivalents for India's states and territories in terms of GDP, GDP per person (in PPP terms) and population. Please play around with it and tell us what you think

http://www.economist.com/content/indian-summary
Click to expand...

Excellent.
 
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