Aarakshan ko dilli gherenge Jat

[akshaymalik84]

Akshay, there was another thread on reservation where a few of us raised similar questions............
And then there was another thread before that thread..............and another one....

Jissne kuch karna hai, woh bina reservation ke bhi kar lega....arr jissne kuch nahin karna, woh reservation ke baad bhi kuch nahin kare..

Oh...i didn't see that. Thanks.
And still we are struggling on the same issue.

 

[crsnadar]

तीन चार साल पहले कभी कभी मेरे मन में भी ख्याल आता था की शायद ये Reservation हो जाए तो शायद सरकारी नौकरी आसानी से मिल जाए.
लेकिन फिर लगा की इस तरह सरकारी नौकरी मिल भी जाए तो शायद पूरी जिंदगी ऐसा लगेगा की ये नौकरी मुझे नहीं इस Reservation को मिली है.
ऐसा लगेगा की भले ही थोडा सा लेकिन गिरना तो पड़ा ही है इस नौकरी के लिए. फिर उसके बाद कभी शायद सीसे में देख के अपने आपको खुल के जाट नहीं कह पायेंगे.
ऐसी नौकरी से तो गाँव में मेहनत करके कमाना खाना ज्यादा बेहतर होगा. क्योकि "जाट' कहलाना हमे ऐसी नौकरी से कहीं ज्यादा प्यारा है.
फिर ऊपर वाले के आशीर्वाद से और थोड़ी मेहनत से ३/४ साल में जैसे तैसे सरकारी नौकरी मिल ही गयी मुझे. PSU me AAI me ATC Officer &
GENERAL Category में


But now I feel so happy of being "GENERAL" because "Actual Picture" came after that.

(1) You can be IAS/IFS/ACP etc etc but you can never be a part of respect with this tag of Reservation.

(2) Just after joining there was like a grouping in our org on the basis of Category
SC & STs are friends among them...OBCs are friends among OBCs
But General are having friends from whole of the organization.

(3) In todays world if you wanna grow then you need NAME & RESPECT which make your GOODWILL, MARKETVALUE, INTERACTION, SOCIAL STATUS & CREDIT VALUE & TRUST etc etc etc

सरकारी नौकरी या आईएस का Status आज ke टाइम मी कोई बड़ी बात नहीं.
केवल सरकारी नौकरी से आज के ज़माने में कोई ख़ास तरक्की या मुकाम हासिल नहीं किया जा सकता.

IAS bhi koi bhagwaan nahi hai yaar.

I ask you all
How many IAS offcers you know who have made significant contribution to our country. They are just the part of a Machinary. Every year around 350 used to be selected but if you will try to count only 9/10 only u wud b able to count by names.
But U will count innumerable names who got an elite status & contributed to nation's growth significantly & who r not IAS or PhD holders & most of them r from General Category.

जिस दिन खुल के Reservation का नाम लेना छोड़ देंगे उसी दिन से देख लेना जाटों की तरक्की कोई भी नहीं रोक सकता.
We are talented & hardworker.

Jats can ignite the issue & can fix the problem of Reservation which whole INDIA is facing now a days.
Kuchh desh ke liye bhi socho yaar. It will make us proud ..really..

 

[annch]

Kapil, you mean being "backward" is not a proven method of development? Look at the jats in UP, Rajasthan, Ahirs/Meena in Rajasthan. See, how they are flourishing.

Why should we jats miss out on the "opportunities"? Bass ek bar apne aapko "backward" kehna hai......
and then for generations to come, we will be known as "backward".......but, we have our rich culture, history, tales of valor, and of course jat pride to prove that we are not actually "backward"........

How dare you point this out!!?? These "leaders" and "visionaries" are working for the benefit of the community (so what if the benefit is to someone who didn't need it in the first place, atleast he is a jat) and you "intellectuals" are just trying to oppose it on rational grounds. As advised, Jats should stop every other proven method of development like education, infrastructure and trade (of goods and ideas); and jump into a revolution to get reservations. That's the holy grail and once it is attained, everything will fall in place magically. Magically is the key word. Have faith, rest would follow.

 

[crsnadar]

पहले लोग जाटों से बहुत प्यार करते थे.

लेकिन जिस दिन से ये Reservation का नाम जुड़ा है जाटों के साथ उस दिन से सभी लोग जाटों से नफरत करने लगे हैं.
आने वाली पीढ़ी को यही नफरत देकर जाएगा ये Reservation.

हां. भले ही कुछ नौकरिया ज़रूर लग गयी होंगी.

 

[karan]

तीन चार साल पहले कभी कभी मेरे मन में भी ख्याल आता था की शायद ये Reservation हो जाए तो शायद सरकारी नौकरी आसानी से मिल जाए.
लेकिन फिर लगा की इस तरह सरकारी नौकरी मिल भी जाए तो शायद पूरी जिंदगी ऐसा लगेगा की ये नौकरी मुझे नहीं इस Reservation को मिली है.
ऐसा लगेगा की भले ही थोडा सा लेकिन गिरना तो पड़ा ही है इस नौकरी के लिए. फिर उसके बाद कभी शायद सीसे में देख के अपने आपको खुल के जाट नहीं कह पायेंगे.
ऐसी नौकरी से तो गाँव में मेहनत करके कमाना खाना ज्यादा बेहतर होगा. क्योकि "जाट' कहलाना हमे ऐसी नौकरी से कहीं ज्यादा प्यारा है.
फिर ऊपर वाले के आशीर्वाद से और थोड़ी मेहनत से ३/४ साल में जैसे तैसे सरकारी नौकरी मिल ही गयी मुझे. PSU me AAI me ATC Officer &
GENERAL Category में


But now I feel so happy of being "GENERAL" because "Actual Picture" came after that.

(1) You can be IAS/IFS/ACP etc etc but you can never be a part of respect with this tag of Reservation.

(2) Just after joining there was like a grouping in our org on the basis of Category
SC & STs are friends among them...OBCs are friends among OBCs
But General are having friends from whole of the organization.

(3) In todays world if you wanna grow then you need NAME & RESPECT which make your GOODWILL, MARKETVALUE, INTERACTION, SOCIAL STATUS & CREDIT VALUE & TRUST etc etc etc

सरकारी नौकरी या आईएस का Status आज ke टाइम मी कोई बड़ी बात नहीं.
केवल सरकारी नौकरी से आज के ज़माने में कोई ख़ास तरक्की या मुकाम हासिल नहीं किया जा सकता.

IAS bhi koi bhagwaan nahi hai yaar.

I ask you all
How many IAS offcers you know who have made significant contribution to our country. They are just the part of a Machinary. Every year around 350 used to be selected but if you will try to count only 9/10 only u wud b able to count by names.
But U will count innumerable names who got an elite status & contributed to nation's growth significantly & who r not IAS or PhD holders & most of them r from General Category.

जिस दिन खुल के Reservation का नाम लेना छोड़ देंगे उसी दिन से देख लेना जाटों की तरक्की कोई भी नहीं रोक सकता.
We are talented & hardworker.

Jats can ignite the issue & can fix the problem of Reservation which whole INDIA is facing now a days.
Kuchh desh ke liye bhi socho yaar. It will make us proud ..really..

Rahul
Very Well said. I am very happy for you and please accept my heartiest congratulations for your accomplishment. You will be successful in your life there is no doubt about it. Remember the journey of thousand miles start with first step. You are now part of the system, now work the system to your best interest and beliefs.
Your achieved your success due to your tenacity and unflinching belief in yourself, that has made you proud.
Again, please accept my best wishes and congratulations.

 

[annch]

Rahul,
We have no choice but to accept that fate........

पहले लोग जाटों से बहुत प्यार करते थे.

लेकिन जिस दिन से ये Reservation का नाम जुड़ा है जाटों के साथ उस दिन से सभी लोग जाटों से नफरत करने लगे हैं.
आने वाली पीढ़ी को यही नफरत देकर जाएगा ये Reservation.

हां. भले ही कुछ नौकरिया ज़रूर लग गयी होंगी.

 

[akshaymalik84]

Two Different cases!

.............................

 

[crsnadar]

Rahul
Very Well said. I am very happy for you and please accept my heartiest congratulations for your accomplishment. You will be successful in your life there is no doubt about it. Remember the journey of thousand miles start with first step. You are now part of the system, now work the system to your best interest and beliefs.
Your achieved your success due to your tenacity and unflinching belief in yourself, that has made you proud.
Again, please accept my best wishes and congratulations.

Thanx a lot Karan Ji,
This is not a very big achievement but you made me feel like that.

I just wanted to bring it to members' notice that...Reservation is not the only tool..there are many more powerful tools like.."Hardwork" & "SelfFeed of Determination" for Development..

Good to find many AntiReservation supporter friends here

 

[kapdal]

तीन चार साल पहले कभी कभी मेरे मन में भी ख्याल आता था की शायद ये Reservation हो जाए तो शायद सरकारी नौकरी आसानी से मिल जाए.
लेकिन फिर लगा की इस तरह सरकारी नौकरी मिल भी जाए तो शायद पूरी जिंदगी ऐसा लगेगा की ये नौकरी मुझे नहीं इस Reservation को मिली है.
ऐसा लगेगा की भले ही थोडा सा लेकिन गिरना तो पड़ा ही है इस नौकरी के लिए. फिर उसके बाद कभी शायद सीसे में देख के अपने आपको खुल के जाट नहीं कह पायेंगे.
ऐसी नौकरी से तो गाँव में मेहनत करके कमाना खाना ज्यादा बेहतर होगा. क्योकि "जाट' कहलाना हमे ऐसी नौकरी से कहीं ज्यादा प्यारा है.
फिर ऊपर वाले के आशीर्वाद से और थोड़ी मेहनत से ३/४ साल में जैसे तैसे सरकारी नौकरी मिल ही गयी मुझे. PSU me AAI me ATC Officer &
GENERAL Category में


But now I feel so happy of being "GENERAL" because "Actual Picture" came after that.

(1) You can be IAS/IFS/ACP etc etc but you can never be a part of respect with this tag of Reservation.

(2) Just after joining there was like a grouping in our org on the basis of Category
SC & STs are friends among them...OBCs are friends among OBCs
But General are having friends from whole of the organization.

(3) In todays world if you wanna grow then you need NAME & RESPECT which make your GOODWILL, MARKETVALUE, INTERACTION, SOCIAL STATUS & CREDIT VALUE & TRUST etc etc etc

सरकारी नौकरी या आईएस का Status आज ke टाइम मी कोई बड़ी बात नहीं.
केवल सरकारी नौकरी से आज के ज़माने में कोई ख़ास तरक्की या मुकाम हासिल नहीं किया जा सकता.

IAS bhi koi bhagwaan nahi hai yaar.

I ask you all
How many IAS offcers you know who have made significant contribution to our country. They are just the part of a Machinary. Every year around 350 used to be selected but if you will try to count only 9/10 only u wud b able to count by names.
But U will count innumerable names who got an elite status & contributed to nation's growth significantly & who r not IAS or PhD holders & most of them r from General Category.

जिस दिन खुल के Reservation का नाम लेना छोड़ देंगे उसी दिन से देख लेना जाटों की तरक्की कोई भी नहीं रोक सकता.
We are talented & hardworker.

Jats can ignite the issue & can fix the problem of Reservation which whole INDIA is facing now a days.
Kuchh desh ke liye bhi socho yaar. It will make us proud ..really..

First of all congrats!

I have said this umpteenth times on other reservation-related threads. Reverse discrimination by "general" category against "reserved" category is a very real thing. We can argue about the morality of it, but can't ignore its presence.

Reserved category students are called Shadda or some other derogatory word at IITs and IIMs. Having entered the place without the requisite background, they either complete a 4 year course in 6 years or fail to complete it altogether. Many recruiters have an inherent bias against reserved category students. It becomes a vicious circle, where most of the reserved category students are happy taking everything "reserved" for their lifetime, from admissions to jobs to promotions. Any one can develop doubts about himself at the best of times. But with a reserved tag, I wonder how can one avoid developing doubts about one's ability. I shudder to think what would be the self-confidence of a person who knows he is not even half as good as his peers.

 

[karan]

Akshay
these kind of stories are around.
This discussion is getting very emotional. I understand both sides...if someone doesn't have a job or no prospect of hope, promise and prosperity it is very natural to get angry at system and others who we think or imagine as unworthy due to their unsavory practise.

Getting Reservation in Gov't job is not a panacea that will remove the deficiencies from our community. There are myriad of problems we need to face head on. Once we do that much to the chagrin of others we will succeed.What will help us is some radical rethinking on our part how to succeed in this jungle of scarce resources.

Reservation promotes lethargy, self entitlement,mediocrity not meritocracy, excellence, rewards.
I have one question, how would most Jats feel if there was a reservation in military service where a person without inane quality of valor, skills, war fighting prowess was given preference over Jats, would you still support his right to earn because of reservation. There is a reason there is JAT, SIKH, Rajput etc regiments are still there who win wars for this nation, last time I checked I didn't see any Tamil Regiment, Kannada Regiment, Gujrat Regiment, Baniya+Jain regiment.

 

[karan]

Rahul,
We have no choice but to accept that fate........

Anjoo
That was a defeatist attitude. We always have a choice. When I was working at pentagon, I had a boss who was retired Army Rangers Col. He used to tell me, if you don't make a decision, you have made a decision. There is very profound message in it.

If someone else agrees with you, please do not participate in this discussion anymore.

We are discussing a strategy to uplift some of our own boys and girls who are demoralized, beaten down, discriminated, at every step of their lives. There is no bigger loss to a nation than losing a generation of young men and women to apathy.

Asking for reservation isn't gonna solve anything if we want to do gherao of delhi we should ask for more funding for better schools, better teachers, more vocational training centers, better education.
If we don't ask for tangile long term gains our community will be reduced to Sipahi, Driver, Chaprasi.

 

[akshaymalik84]

Akshay
these kind of stories are around.
This discussion is getting very emotional. I understand both sides...if someone doesn't have a job or no prospect of hope, promise and prosperity it is very natural to get angry at system and others who we think or imagine as unworthy due to their unsavory practise.

Getting Reservation in Gov't job is not a panacea that will remove the deficiencies from our community. There are myriad of problems we need to face head on. Once we do that much to the chagrin of others we will succeed.What will help us is some radical rethinking on our part how to succeed in this jungle of scarce resources.

Yes, Bhai sahab, its emotional. I and WE all worked hard.....and i helped my fellows. Jats are raising this issue of reservation because....they are no more interested in Agriculture, nor in hard work.....reservation is an easy tool....Indian constitution.....may be our past leaders and some of them were/are very hopefull. I too is but???

Its all about eqallity......No matter if you work in Military, corporate or in public sector.......Govt. needs to understand..........providing food in primary schools is not the solution.......Its education!....which is not at the level it should be?

 

[annch]

Karan ji,

Please refer to my post again that was in reply to Rahul that related to accepting our fate when people would not like us jats for reasons elaborated by Kapil as well.......

Anjoo
That was a defeatist attitude. We always have a choice. When I was working at pentagon, I had a boss who was retired Army Rangers Col. He used to tell me, if you don't make a decision, you have made a decision. There is very profound message in it.

If someone else agrees with you, please do not participate in this discussion anymore.

We are discussing a strategy to uplift some of our own boys and girls who are demoralized, beaten down, discriminated, at every step of their lives. There is no bigger loss to a nation than losing a generation of young men and women to apathy.

Asking for reservation isn't gonna solve anything if we want to do gherao of delhi we should ask for more funding for better schools, better teachers, more vocational training centers, better education.
If we don't ask for tangile long term gains our community will be reduced to Sipahi, Driver, Chaprasi.

 

[karan]

Yes, Bhai sahab, its emotional. I and WE all worked hard.....and i helped my fellows. Jats are raising this issue of reservation because....they are no more interested in Agriculture, nor in hard work.....reservation is an easy tool....Indian constitution.....may be our past leaders and some of them were/are very hopefull. I too is but???

Its all about eqallity......No matter if you work in Military, corporate or in public sector.......Govt. needs to understand..........providing food in primary schools is not the solution.......Its education!....which is not at the level it should be?

Akshay

nor in hard work.....

WTH....
How can you say that we are not interested in hard work. Just not in back breaking agriculture type hard work. Are you saying someone who is a bus driver is not working as hard as some babu sitting in office or some farmer in field. I tend to think bus driver is more diligent and hardworking than others, simply said, he is responsible for the lives of 60 people in bus, every animal, rickshaw, motorcyle, scooter, pedestrian, rehdiwala, tangeywala, auto-rickshaw wala hogging the road. He is the one man who is ever vigilant, focussed does his job every day and all he gets from other people is some disdain, abuse, ridicule and the object of fervent diatribe, stereotype and prejudice. He is the ultimate hero of treachrous Indian roads. How many of us have taken a time to thank him at the end of our ride, shook their hand, made them feel like a fellow brother-
My guess-NONE

And for that, I --Karan Singh salute them for all their hardwork, diligence.

 

[akshaymalik84]

Akshay

WTH....
How can you say that we are not interested in hard work. Just not in back breaking agriculture type hard work. Are you saying someone who is a bus driver is not working as hard as some babu sitting in office or some farmer in field. I tend to think bus driver is more diligent and hardworking than others, simply said, he is responsible for the lives of 60 people in bus, every animal, rickshaw, motorcyle, scooter, pedestrian, rehdiwala, tangeywala, auto-rickshaw wala hogging the road. He is the one man who is ever vigilant, focussed does his job every day and all he gets from other people is some disdain, abuse, ridicule and the object of fervent diatribe, stereotype and prejudice. He is the ultimate hero of treachrous Indian roads. How many of us have taken a time to thank him at the end of our ride, shook their hand, made them feel like a fellow brother-
My guess-NONE

And for that, I --Karan Singh salute them for all their hardwork, diligence.

....................................................................................


This is reservation and misuse of power that we get or will get in future.

 

[daivischahal]

kyuuuuu bhooooj mare s is pride k ....kadhe gaaam m kisseee brahman ya baniye k saath ek hi chilam pi s ....kadhe gaam m haand k dekhiyeee berojgaar kyukar daru nashe albaadyaa m barbaaad ho rahe s .....
jat ka to yohe rolllaaa s isne do tem ka khaana mil jaao nehru paak jaagaaa.....kise n theek kahi s na to yo dhaapyoda aachaaa arr na bukhaaa.....mehnat waha dekhi jaati hain jahaa sab muqable me ho ...... maahre mehnat ka chasmaaa chadaaa diyaaa arr khud malaaiiiii khaaa s , iss chasme na taar dyo kimme na dhryaaaa isme

bhai ek bar nu or bta de ki yo reservation daaru pina kukar band kara hai.......
gaam ma ghankhare daru piniye ye reserved category waale hi hova hai......

ar bhai mane bhi apne 24saal gaam ma hi gujare hai.......sab bera hi ki gaam ma kis tarah ke log bsa hai.........

ar bhai hum MALLAIIIII KHAAN WAALYA MA TE NA HAI.......HUM TO HAR JAGAH GENERAL CATEGORY MA COMPETITION KARDE AAYE HAI.......RESERVATION KONI MAANGYA KADI........
MALAAIII KHAN WAALE TO WO HAI ZO GARIB JAATON KE NAAM PA RESERVATION MAANG KA KHUD ACHHI POST PA JANA CHAHA HAI......BHAI JAB IAS/IPS BAN-AN KA ITNA HI JI KARA HAI TO MEHNAT KARO.....DIN MA 18-18 GHANTE PADO.......FER BERA PATA GA KE IAS/IPS KYA HOVA HAI........NA TO IAS/IPS TO CHOODE-CHAMAR GHANE BNA HAI.......DUM HAI TO GENERAL CATEGORY MA RAH KA COMPETE KARO.......

 

[yudhvirmor]

chote hote ek kahwat suna karde... Goo Nache ar Chude ke jaa (When some illterate person get some knowledge, they try to do all crazy things)

same is happening here.. I asked to provide the stats of all jat populated states and lets see who stanrds where...

Rees karni hai toh badiya cheez ke rees karo.. yaa kameen banan kee rees samaj main nahin ayi...

 

[fateh]

Akshay
these kind of stories are around.
This discussion is getting very emotional. I understand both sides...if someone doesn't have a job or no prospect of hope, promise and prosperity it is very natural to get angry at system and others who we think or imagine as unworthy due to their unsavory practise.

Getting Reservation in Gov't job is not a panacea that will remove the deficiencies from our community. There are myriad of problems we need to face head on. Once we do that much to the chagrin of others we will succeed.What will help us is some radical rethinking on our part how to succeed in this jungle of scarce resources.

Reservation promotes lethargy, self entitlement,mediocrity not meritocracy, excellence, rewards.
I have one question, how would most Jats feel if there was a reservation in military service where a person without inane quality of valor, skills, war fighting prowess was given preference over Jats, would you still support his right to earn because of reservation. There is a reason there is JAT, SIKH, Rajput etc regiments are still there who win wars for this nation, last time I checked I didn't see any Tamil Regiment, Kannada Regiment, Gujrat Regiment, Baniya+Jain regiment.

Mr Karan pardon me for my fixed ideas & poor language, few lines on you question. Dear when Babu Jagjivan Ram became defence minister, few leaders from dalits, mainly chamars, approached him for reseration in defence services. He replied that donnot you think that a dalit who can become defence officer, can become IAS/IPS, WHO CAN BECOME A CLERK IN DEFENCE CAN BECOME CLERK IN CIVIL DEPT & WHO CAN BECOME JAWAN IN DEFENCE CAN BECOME SEPOY IN POLICE. He further said that an IAS/IPS can help so many families of dalits & so is a clrk/sepoy in police, but what poor defence fellow can do to dalits. AFTER THAT DALITS NEVER ASKED RESERVATION IN DEFENCE. There is Madras regiment, there are unlimited people in defence from Karnataka, Kerala, Andera etc & as per my view, kurgies are the best in all ranks. When Mr Modi took over as CM of Gujarat, there was demand for Gujarat regiment.
As for as respect in society is concern, pandits, banias, rajputs etc never gave respect to our community, others were respecting jats earlier& considered always batter among them, but after we were singled out they have also stopped respecting jats. Secondly dear, when jat doesnot respect jat how can you others respect us.
we shouldnot bring point of principle, marit, etc because all these points must be applicable to other communities of OBC also.
Jat, his capability & his status/ respect will remain the same even if we get reservation or not.

 

[narenderkharb]

OK Friends ...

Stands are clear ...

Anti Reservationist argue we should not demand otherwise..

1 people will stop loving Jats

2 we will be treated weak if we show our strength and get reservation .

3 Every Jat student instead of getting additional hope will start reading less and turn
lethargic.

4 Some have done little detective job also and came to know that these people who are raising this demand wants to get benefits ....so only all this exercise..

People in favour just point out that when other similar farming communities are given reservation why Jats are being discriminated ??and on What basis ??

Mandal Commission gave the basis of this discrimination stating 'Though Jats deserve reservation at par with other communities as they are equally placed but their leaders are against this' .

Thousands of Jat students who could have get jobs in various Servicies and could have improved their lot were denied this just on the Whims and Fancies of some leaders who sent their sons abroad and themselves enjoyed luxuries in India but wanted other Jats to come up hard way .


One fails to understand Why Mandal withdrew these recommendation if Jats were really entitled to it ???Was it not an unjustice to entire Jat community??

I am seeing same conspiracy even today ...Though Reservation rally of Meerut was announced long back ,Ajit Singh announced a rally for Harit Pardesh on the same day just to scuttle this exercise.Some of these foreign returned or still foreigners are trying their best even today.They will use every cheap trick to scuttle this process and once this opportunity gone they will sit peacefully and enjoy their luxuries.

 

[daivischahal]

Akshay, there was another thread on reservation where a few of us raised similar questions............
And then there was another thread before that thread..............and another one....

Jissne kuch karna hai, woh bina reservation ke bhi kar lega....arr jissne kuch nahin karna, woh reservation ke baad bhi kuch nahin kare..

no anju, you are not got getting point......ye log hamara bhala chahate hai........ye chahate hai ki hum bina padhe-likhe IAS ban jaye..........IIT me admission le.......and when someone will ask why the country is not progressing then again these will be the first people to point out that our politicians and bureacrats are not so efficient...


i cannt believe that people could be selfish............and then they make comparison with UK,USA.....