Again - A Marriage in Same village

[jitendershooda]

Shayad wo samae aa gaya hai jab humein apni purani soch ko nae hisab se disha ya sehanseelta pradan karni padegi ..... chahe purani dharnae aur reeti-rivaj kitne hi gunkari kyon na hon. AfterAll killing is not the solution and such cases are more and more during last few years. Youth is adamant to do love (or they fell in love by gods will) within the restricted or not-permissible relations in society .... then what? if youth cant help then society/panchayats have to change and not to force them or kill them.​

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090324/haryana.htm#1

Couple faces threat from panchayat
Saurabh Malik
Tribune News Service​

Chandigarh, March 23
Another case of hatred for love has surfaced. It seems the entire panchayat of Dhani Mohu village in Tosham tehsil of Haryana’s Bhiwani district is against Asha Rani’s marriage with Sanjay, the boy of the same village. They too have expressed apprehensions regarding their safety.
The threat to the duo’s life comes less than a week after the alleged issuance of death warrants by a Khap panchayat against a Jind-based couple. Available information suggests, the Jind couple had eloped as they were of the same caste.
Taking cognizance of threat to their safety, Haryana has already issued orders providing security to Asha and Sanjay. Modalities are being worked out for providing adequate security to their families also.
Chandigarh Administration too has assured full protection to the two as long as they remain in the city.
The squalid side of Asha-Sanjay’s love story came under the high court scanner after the two filed a petition for safeguarding their “life and liberty”. They wanted protection against Asha Rani’s parents Ranbir and Laxmi for marrying against their wishes. During the course of hearing, it transpired the panchayat too was against them.
As the matter came up for hearing before Justice Rajan Gupta, counsel for Chandigarh Administration confirmed threats were being issued to the couple. In fact, threats were being handed down to Sanjay on his mobile phone.
Counsel said the case urgently required the court’s intervention as the danger to the lives of the two was quite apparent. Counsel for Asha Rani’s parents D.S. Bishnoi and Haryana’s additional advocate-general K.C. Gupta expressed similar apprehension.
The UT counsel said “a larger issued was involved as those getting married within the same religion, caste or sub-caste could not be allowed to be left to fend for themselves in hostile social and cultural environment”.
He insisted the entire village could not be “described as prohibited zone for marriage” and it would “impinge on the constitutional rights of individuals”.
After hearing the arguments, Justice Gupta took note of the fact that security had been provided and an advocate-general committee, on grant of protection to runaway couples, had already been constituted pursuant to the high court directions. “In view of the fact that issue of larger public interest has arisen for consideration of this court and many cases of this nature are likely to arise, it would be appropriate if the matter is put up before the Chief Justice to be put up as per roster”. Justice Gupta also granted liberty to Asha Rani to accompany Sanjay. She was hitherto putting up in Nari Niketan, Sector 26.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Ye un dono ki galti hai.
Humare jat samaj mein jahan Gaon ki sabhi ladkiyo ko behan kaha aur mana jata hai wahan aisa pyar nihayat hi ghrinatmak aur ghatiya karam hai. Is hisab se to gotra bhi hat jane chaiye fir to mama aur bua ki ladki ko bhi biyah lena chaiye. Musalmano mein aur hum mein kya farak reh jayega.
Kaunsi Soch badalna chahte hain?
Yehi ki gaon ki ladkiya behan beti nahi hain. Har gaon mein aisi prem kahani ban-ni chaiye? Ya kal tak jo bhai the wo ristedar ke najariye se ek doosre kodekhe? Apne gaon ka aur apne mama ke gaon ka ek naam hona chaiye?
Aise logo ko sareaam fansi deni chaiye aur hoga bhi yehi aaj maka nahi milega to kal milega.

 

[sunitahooda]

इसका मतलब है के हमे सहनशील हो कर इंतजार करना चाहिए के गाव में शादियाँ होने लगी है....ये विकास की अति-आधुनिक परिभाषा है? इसके बाद एक से अगले दुसरे घर में शादी होगी. फिर हम अत्यंत सहनशील हो कर उस दिन का इंतजार करें जब हमारे बच्चे आपस में शादी करने लगेंगे? चलो अच्छा है फिर हम मुसलमानों से नफरत नहीं करेंगे कि वोह आपस में चाचा-ताऊ या बुआ-मामा के बच्चो की शादी करते हैं. फिर ये कहावत जाटों पर भी लागु होगी- इतनी भली होती तो काका- ताऊ कै रहती

 

[sachinb]

I support you 1000%,,,,,,,,,,these things can not be tolerated,,,,,

इसका मतलब है के हमे सहनशील हो कर इंतजार करना चाहिए के गाव में शादियाँ होने लगी है....ये विकास की अति-आधुनिक परिभाषा है? इसके बाद एक से अगले दुसरे घर में शादी होगी. फिर हम अत्यंत सहनशील हो कर उस दिन का इंतजार करें जब हमारे बच्चे आपस में शादी करने लगेंगे? चलो अच्छा है फिर हम मुसलमानों से नफरत नहीं करेंगे कि वोह आपस में चाचा-ताऊ या बुआ-मामा के बच्चो की शादी करते हैं. फिर ये कहावत जाटों पर भी लागु होगी- इतनी भली होती तो काका- ताऊ कै रहती

 

[jitendershooda]

Bhai Rakesh meri post ke aakhir mein "?" la le .... galati te bindi lag-gi dikhey.

Still I feel that there must be some legal solution to it.

Court during the past few incidents clearly told that the marriages less first cousins are allowed by law in Hindu's?

Then people of this area should challenge that law itself? Isnt it?

Nue ek do ne bhaja ke mar ke to mere hissab te kimme na bane. Pahelyan nue kahya karte ki bharat ki 70% abadi gaon mein basti hai .... er we kae dasak pahele likhi hui batein ab bhi kahi jati hein bina asliyat dekhe. Mere hissab se ab bahut change aa chuka hai aur jis hisab se urbanisation chal raha hai bahut kum log rahe jaenge gaon mein.

Mera ek sathi tha baniya ... uske pad dada kisi gaon se aae they but he didnt knew that. Now persons in cities from same native roots will not even know if they are from same village .... so what is the solution to this ...... means where all these things stands in present scenerio and what should be done to preserve the good from past? Going against law will bring bad name to the area and nothing else ...
should they fight against the law itself
or
bear with it
or
act like present way of killing?

 

[trueblueindian]

इसका मतलब है के हमे सहनशील हो कर इंतजार करना चाहिए के गाव में शादियाँ होने लगी है....ये विकास की अति-आधुनिक परिभाषा है? इसके बाद एक से अगले दुसरे घर में शादी होगी. फिर हम अत्यंत सहनशील हो कर उस दिन का इंतजार करें जब हमारे बच्चे आपस में शादी करने लगेंगे? चलो अच्छा है फिर हम मुसलमानों से नफरत नहीं करेंगे कि वोह आपस में चाचा-ताऊ या बुआ-मामा के बच्चो की शादी करते हैं. फिर ये कहावत जाटों पर भी लागु होगी- इतनी भली होती तो काका- ताऊ कै रहती

in total agreement to what you have mentioned here

 

[nd-chora]

jama kati sahmat bhai...pitchle saal thaare gaam mein bhi isha kisha hua tha na, jo wo BHARAN gaam ka chora tha, ladki ke bhai ne pher donu gandasha te kaate the????.....it should not be allowed .

Ye un dono ki galti hai.
Humare jat samaj mein jahan Gaon ki sabhi ladkiyo ko behan kaha aur mana jata hai wahan aisa pyar nihayat hi ghrinatmak aur ghatiya karam hai. Is hisab se to gotra bhi hat jane chaiye fir to mama aur bua ki ladki ko bhi biyah lena chaiye. Musalmano mein aur hum mein kya farak reh jayega.
Kaunsi Soch badalna chahte hain?
Yehi ki gaon ki ladkiya behan beti nahi hain. Har gaon mein aisi prem kahani ban-ni chaiye? Ya kal tak jo bhai the wo ristedar ke najariye se ek doosre kodekhe? Apne gaon ka aur apne mama ke gaon ka ek naam hona chaiye?
Aise logo ko sareaam fansi deni chaiye aur hoga bhi yehi aaj maka nahi milega to kal milega.

 

[sachinb]

Very true Rakesh Bhai. First time I feel agreeing with you on this point.

aapne apna decision bahut hi clear aur sahi tarike se pesh kiyaa hai.....

There should not be any place for such people in Jat society,,,,,,,,,

Ye un dono ki galti hai.
Humare jat samaj mein jahan Gaon ki sabhi ladkiyo ko behan kaha aur mana jata hai wahan aisa pyar nihayat hi ghrinatmak aur ghatiya karam hai. Is hisab se to gotra bhi hat jane chaiye fir to mama aur bua ki ladki ko bhi biyah lena chaiye. Musalmano mein aur hum mein kya farak reh jayega.
Kaunsi Soch badalna chahte hain?
Yehi ki gaon ki ladkiya behan beti nahi hain. Har gaon mein aisi prem kahani ban-ni chaiye? Ya kal tak jo bhai the wo ristedar ke najariye se ek doosre kodekhe? Apne gaon ka aur apne mama ke gaon ka ek naam hona chaiye?
Aise logo ko sareaam fansi deni chaiye aur hoga bhi yehi aaj maka nahi milega to kal milega.

 

[sunitahooda]

I keep pondering over what can be the possible reason for such behavior of youth in villages?

 

[sunnyhardeep]

Its matter of westernization of our culture which entered in our homes through seriels of TV. Every TV seriels shows extra affairs. It is attack on our culture. Nowadays every child is forced to see rape, murder and sex on TV,then what you expect from our coming generations. Let us join hands on this Jatland Platform to eliminate these evil things.

 

[sunitahooda]

But Hardeep those serials & even english movies haven't started to show that, so we really can't blame themEither its lack on parents part/Society or whatever but its just like finding a bait and just to put the blame on someone's shoulders or else on SOMETHING that may not even exist

Can small families be a big reason for it? As families are getting so small that kids don't have all the relations in a family and thats why they don't relate themselves to someone real close?

Its matter of westernization of our culture which entered in our homes through seriels of TV. Every TV seriels shows extra affairs. It is attack on our culture. Nowadays every child is forced to see rape, murder and sex on TV,then what you expect from our coming generations. Let us join hands on this Jatland Platform to eliminate these evil things.

 

[jitendershooda]

Can small families be a big reason for it? As families are getting so small that kids don't have all the relations in a family and thats why they don't relate themselves to someone real close?

Exactly. This is what I was pointing at ... reasons and solutions.

As I have already said in my first post itself that I also find the tradition of not marrying in the same village or gauhand. Also to leave gotra's is good. And we should carry it further.

But now when people are doing these then in present scenerio what affective thing can be done is the question to stop this.

I can see the following reasons of such incidents:
1) Moral depletion ... chottey baddey ya ghar kyan ki ijjat bejatti aali baat back seat pe hein aur personal satisfaction/adhikar and life is the priority
2) Urbanisation
3) Aadmi apne tak seemit hota ja raha hai ... usko jyada samaj ya relations ki ehmiyat nahi lagti ... pahele log apas mein jyada dependent they ya kahe lo uthte baith-te they ... now a days individualistic life is priority with no external pressure or peeping. Meri life hai mein kaise jeeon. Pahele logon ko lagta tha ki aisa kar diya to society mein rahene layak nahi rahenge poore parivar wale. But now this is not the case
Last year few deaths/killings were there but still there are new cases. So its clear that this thing will not carry more. Its practical, when court provides them legal support and what society or panchayats are doing is not legal then what do you think doing so can make much affect?
If not then what should be done was my query. And I feel that keeping in view the urbanisation along with adamant attitude of youth this will increase day by day.

Now, Sachin, Rakesh, Sunita and others said about Bhai-Behan rista in villages. Then its reality and hard fact that these moral values are depleting at high rate in villages these days. I am in regular touch with villages (mine and relatives) and I myself knew many cases of under cover relationships and that too even in same kunba (dada-pad-dada ki aulad). Kafi sari prem-kahaniya to parde ke peeche raheti hein aur pata lagne pe ladki byah di jati hai. Aaj ke time pe bahut kum parivar aise hein jo mar-kat karte hon balkan ki aur ye aage aage bahut kum hone wali hai. Sabne dar laggey se jail mein panh peetan te as law is against it. Aur seedhi non-bailable ho se ghar alyan ki.

"Pachey si ek byah mein ja rahya tha bahadurgarh dhore gaam mein. Ek bamna ke ghar aage jake ghudchadi ne ghana ee time la diya. Manney boojhi te bera pattya ek wo chora hude doobey tha. Wa chori upar khadi ron ne ho rahi (may be because girls are more imotional er uska byah dekh ke dukhi ho ya whatever). Us chore ka kaka kahe se ... dekh susri ne kukar aankh pad rahi se khavegi chore ne ... digya na jata ... tha jo tha eeb to apne ne kabboo kare)".

So this is the reality of todays samaj, baki kitni ee baddi baat kar lyan.
Eeb I was thinking that musalmano ko alag treatment unke dharm ki bhavnaon ke liye diya gaya hai. Means whatever their dharm says that is under law. But why not the traditions being followed in an area can be brought under law. This doesnt only meant to JATs as mentioned by Sachin .... I found that everyone in a village follow the same or mostly same traditions either it be Jat, khati aur baman.

 

[deepika]

Well being"Modern" doesn't mean tht u start getting married within ur own village....its a shame tht since childhood when we know tht within village we all are brothers and sisters still youngsters get into this crap....heights of lust and desperation...when i hear about girls and boys going out with their own cousins it gives me shockers....kuch maan maryada aur sharam honi chahiye....How low can one go?I wonder what leads youngsters to such stuff....I won't blame parents or upbringing coz no parents teach kids to do something such nasty...sometimes upbringing fails to make a person a good human being coz there are certain things which a person grabs in grey matter which he thinks suits him/her the best...not always he/she would like to do what people around do...If such a thing happens at all then i believe its individual's fault.... I am openminded and have nothing against intercaste marriages but wud never support this bullshit which involves youngsters getting married within own caste and community(same village or guhaand)....yahdai mhare barge saare gotra taalan mai vishwaas rakhai arr ohdai gaam mai(jit ki mhari root hai)vai issa gadar machavai ya baat aachi nai.To be very honest i am glad that i have been born and brought up in cities...gaam ke itne kharab mahaul mai ke achi bhudhhi milai thi jib issi ssi baat sunan mai aavai...aur panchayat ke aise decisions ache hai...jab tak aise strict decisions nahi liye jaayenge more couples will go ahead without giving damn about such things....yeh darr bhi hona zaruri hai aur shayad issliye abhi itne jyada cases nahi hai aise....For example in Saudi Arabia there's a very cruel sort of capital punishment for a rapist and in Malaysia there's capital punishment for drug peddlers and i am sure its been a helpful in minimizing such crimes....killing is not a solution all the times but sometimes its very essential....jaise ghar me father ya mother ka strict hona zaruri hai bache ki achi upbringing ke liye aise hi pancho ko bhi aise strict hona hi chahiye

 

[kapdal]

I don't agree with marriage within the same gotra as it is against our social norms. But who the hell has given the right to someone to kill these people? Why is panchayat playing god? If they did something that is not in line with your customs, stop communicating with them. Break all relations. But let's be clear- they haven't done anything illegal. There is a law of the land and it supercedes any caste's or community's norms.

 

[sunitahooda]

I've heard about it but somehow my mind doesn't want to believe it may be i'm just trying to ignore this dirty fact. Most of the times its modern city girls get the blame for being MODERN and shameless but its the village girls who are far more more modern than modern girls.

Small families and lack of love for relations is the major cause that leads youngsters to be self-involved. But parents are on fault for not analyzing the behavior of the kids, they must get some signals of this filthy behavior as it doesn't happen in moments or over night.

Now, Sachin, Rakesh, Sunita and others said about Bhai-Behan rista in villages. Then its reality and hard fact that these moral values are depleting at high rate in villages these days. I am in regular touch with villages (mine and relatives) and I myself knew many cases of under cover relationships and that too even in same kunba (dada-pad-dada ki aulad). Kafi sari prem-kahaniya to parde ke peeche raheti hein aur pata lagne pe ladki byah di jati hai. Aaj ke time pe bahut kum parivar aise hein jo mar-kat karte hon balkan ki aur ye aage aage bahut kum hone wali hai. Sabne dar laggey se jail mein panh peetan te as law is against it. Aur seedhi non-bailable ho se ghar alyan ki.
So this is the reality of todays samaj, baki kitni ee baddi baat kar lyan.
Eeb I was thinking that musalmano ko alag treatment unke dharm ki bhavnaon ke liye diya gaya hai. Means whatever their dharm says that is under law. But why not the traditions being followed in an area can be brought under law. This doesnt only meant to JATs as mentioned by Sachin .... I found that everyone in a village follow the same or mostly same traditions either it be Jat, khati aur baman.

 

[nishantrathi82]

Jo unhone kiya that was not good but i think Killing is worst than those guys did.

 

[deepshi]

thers a diference betewen bein modern n bein shamless
I remeber wen my parents were married , my moms place was towards Mehrauli n dad toward the oher end of airport
there was a lot of objections n issues were raised by badey-buddhey
then after the marriage so many girls from moms village got married into dad's
and this...comsidering there was considerable distance b/w both villages.

inney to had kar dii
yahan mom k gotra k bi saarey bhai lagety hain..its inbuilt.. no-one forces it..inhoney to apna hi nahi chhoda jat hoke

these refugee punjabi pigs..inki kya hodd hai

 

[coolphool]

Its only a matter of time before someone gets Sanjay and Asha Rani. They need to start doing the things they like the most, because their days are numbered. Mark my words!

 

[kapdal]

thers a diference betewen bein modern n bein shamless
I remeber wen my parents were married , my moms place was towards Mehrauli n dad toward the oher end of airport
there was a lot of objections n issues were raised by badey-buddhey
then after the marriage so many girls from moms village got married into dad's
and this...comsidering there was considerable distance b/w both villages.

inney to had kar dii
yahan mom k gotra k bi saarey bhai lagety hain..its inbuilt.. no-one forces it..inhoney to apna hi nahi chhoda jat hoke

these refugee punjabi pigs..inki kya hodd hai

Things change with time. Your parents marriage would have been highly objectionable at that time (hamare gaon main log abhi bhi saare gaon chhodte hain jinki seem touch hoti hai). But now you must be thinking, what was the big fuss about? Similarly, when your children would come on Jatland and see these archives, they would be surprised why their mom was making a fuss about such a non-issue.

 

[anilsinghd]

Anger and lots of it by most!

Phool hit the nail on the head , pretty sure the days of this couple are numbered!

But as Jit points out , we should not be looking at this behaviour in a case by case basis but rather as a phenomenon which has started to happen and increasing by the day!

Sunita ji probably got very near to it , the rapid depletion of the affection between the two families is the cause ( the biggest one to me !)


Do not believe the discussion can really achieve anything if we do not scrutinise things in good detail , so let me try and be the devil's advocate .

Have read all the posts and some thing really worry me ( because I guess people have not pondered over it well before really writing those lines! )


Please reflect over the following points in your spare time:

1) We are so agaisnt the marriage in the same village but what if these things happen in colonies. I have seen many marriages happen in the same colony ( for example : I lived in palam colony near Dwarka , its like a half-village types , not so big , I have seen many arrange marriages happen within the colony)! Is proximity the criterion to be against ? Not really!
People seem to be fine about intercaste , in which we donot have any idea about the person , so to me , such marriage is a random marriage in terms of choice , why can't that choice be extended to let's say the same village and same gotra!

2) Deepika mentioned that it is height of lust and desperation ! I beg to differ because the couple involved know with all their conscience that whole family , village and society will be against them. If lust and desperation was an issue they could have enjoyed themselves and parted! If they were meek and weak (and the strength of personality reflects pretty much in the relationships ) they would had a weak realtionship and so would not take such ahuge step! On one hand we talk of true love and on another we are n eglecting examples which might come close!
(I can already hear an uproar against me ! )!


3) Parents are not to blame ? Give me a break for God's sake! No parents are fool not to know waht their children are upto. I am very much sure that in 95% of these cases parents know every iota of the things and they make amtters worse for everyone! It is this haste of them to ge ttheir daughter or son married off to someone else which ignites these couples to run away !
Talking to them , convinving them , counseling them , pleading to them ( if need be ! ) , giving them time to ponder over things is much better a solution than giving them only a few days to think( in a sense not think! ) and do silly things!
Also I am very much convinced that there is something missing in the parenting else children do not move to such extreme and irrational behaviour!


Next look at the consequences of a successful campaign against such couples:
1) You get let's say the girl married off to someone. One you are spoiling a person's life ( the guy to whom she's married) , then his immediate family! Marriage is a confluence of two people on physial , mental , spiritual , emotional domains and you are ruining the guy's life for no fault of him ? Same for the other pair.


Now coming to point of teaching such people/couples a lesson , ummm.. pretty tricky to me!
I know a family in which elder daughter did an intercaste , the younger also wanted to ( some 6-7 years later than the first incident ) do the same , parents were dead agaisnt it (they had no contacts with the elder daughter as well during all these years) , and tried to get the girl married (hurriedly!) to a guy and guess what the girl did: She faked up everything and made sure she convinced her parents that she is with them in everything and then eloped away one fine day!
So do these people learn ? NO!




I know a lot's coming my way ! Let's see how much I can be of help in getting a good discussion going!