AIDS:Premarital testing:For & against

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pup030

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Dear Friends,

This is a socially and culturally relevant subject
essential for the survival of the society as we know it,
needing serious and timely intervention on a family,
community and perhaps governmental level.The issue
of Pre marriage testing for HIV is made out to only relate
with social stigma and individual denial. However, the
bottomline is that it is the individual who has to deide . But
as we all try to etablishing values of civil society gone haywire,
still the majority stands for a mature civil society,where HIV/AIDS
is broadly viewed as a social problem morphed into a health problem.

Perhaps the Government has to strike the balance for strengthened
civil society, where all the citizens have the right of
information for persuading safe and joyful life.

Its a prime responsibility of all the policy makers
and community leaders to bestow the growth of civil
society.We should facilitate pre marriage testing of
HIV , at least in High and moderate prevalent states
in india.

The question arises, whether pre marital HIV testing be made mandatory and should a marrige be made legally valid only when such pre marital tests have been carried out?

I believe pre marital HIV testing should be made mandatory in India.

What do you say?

Dhiren Singh
Advocate
 
Absolutely

Why not uncle ji...it should be binding on both ie Groom and bride to MATCH THE HIV TEST CERTIFICATES instead of JANTARI. You have raised an important point and all of us make a note of it and ensure a proper check up before marriage to avoid BIRANMATTI at a later stage.
 
People can be encouraged to do so. But asking someone to take HIV test as a LAW by THE government, as a prerequisite for marriage or job or for any personal/professional relationship is against the fundamental freedom of personal choice. We may note that NOWHERE in the world HIV testing is mendatory for ANY purpose.

Even otherwise some authority wants to force it in India. It's completely infeasible and impractical in India where still 99% of the marriage does not go through the legal system.
 
Dear Anuj,
Despite the limitation of resources, any such decree would be a welcome step. There is always a difference between what is and what should be, and here the first thread proposes that 'testing HIV' should be made mandatory. Its support is more of a wish.Such a step would protect others if it ever is formulated.
In India, if you see the number of innocent children and women who get infected solely because of the 'male' factor, you would be really shocked. And Jats are not spared. They come with veiled wives, clinging babies and a fresh pregnancy when the status of HIV is already known to the man. The lady is generally not told by any one. One of the greatest defenders of those 'gentleman' is their mothers, who on gaining power at an elderly stage in Jat society assume an 'over-smart' role.
The ethical issue is a very complex one, but taking real gains into account (and displeasing a few people) there is no need to follow American model. America has many other checkpoints.
People in fact would take this as a deterrent to not engage in unsafe sex, for the marriage prospects are at stake.
Elders come to clinics in Govt. Hospital with syphilis after visiting brothels, but don’t reveal any thing. If you threaten them about ensuing impotency, they are willing to stand on one foot!!
Sex and India are a difficult combination, and apart from the impossibility of such wishes coming true because of cultural and ethical reasons, there are other obstacles.
You can not mess up with the sanctimonious 'sexual freedom' of Indians(any anyone else around the world).
Whenever in doubt, remember the unpopularity Mr. Sanjay Gandhi earned for Nehru family and Congress during his spirited campaign to sterilize people.
If that could be tried by the will of one mulish fellow, this is still milder. But I am sure political parties must have learned their lessons after that.
It is indeed infeasible.
Bharat
 
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Schedule "H" Drugs: A menace

bharatrattan said:
Dear Anuj,
Despite the limitation of resources, any such decree would be a welcome step. There is always a difference between what is and what should be, and here the first thread proposes that 'testing HIV' should be made mandatory. Its support is more of a wish.Such a step would protect others if it ever is formulated.
In India, if you see the number of innocent children and women who get infected solely because of the 'male' factor, you would be really shocked. And Jats are not spared. They come with veiled wives, clinging babies and a fresh pregnancy when the status of HIV is already known to the man. The lady is generally not told by any one. One of the greatest defenders of those 'gentleman' is their mothers, who on gaining power at an elderly stage in Jat society assume an 'over-smart' role.
The ethical issue is a very complex one, but taking real gains into account (and displeasing a few people) there is no need to follow American model. America has many other checkpoints.
People in fact would take this as a deterrent to not engage in unsafe sex, for the marriage prospects are at stake.
Elders come to clinics in Govt. Hospital with syphilis after visiting brothels, but don’t reveal any thing. If you threaten them about ensuing impotency, they are willing to stand on one foot!!
Sex and India are a difficult combination, and apart from the impossibility of such wishes coming true because of cultural and ethical reasons, there are other obstacles.
You can not mess up with the sanctimonious 'sexual freedom' of Indians(any anyone else around the world).
Whenever in doubt, remember the unpopularity Mr. Sanjay Gandhi earned for Nehru family and Congress during his spirited campaign to sterilize people.
If that could be tried by the will of one mulish fellow, this is still milder. But I am sure political parties must have learned their lessons after that.
It is indeed infeasible.
Bharat
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Dear Bharat,

How is the day going for you? I am in the mid of an endeavour with regard to the Schedule"H" and other drugs with Narco content which are openly sold my chemists all over the NCR in the absence of proper medical prescriptions and I am in the midst of getting the legal machinery into action for I have seen from close quarters, the bright youth getting wasted, years being lost. Hope you are one person who would know the repercussions of such addictions.

I seek your help in giving me inputs with regard to these drugs, their effect and so on. Your inputs would be an authority on the subject for me to shock the courts and the authorities into acting and acting fast with consistency.

Let me know if you are willing to associate and to help me in this.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate
 
Dear Dhirendra,
I shall be glad to help you regarding the existing drug menace in NCR. This month I am very busy with academic preoccupations. Do write to me specifically about the information that would help you. After that I shall try to answer it in the best possible way or refer you to an authority in this field.
Best of luck for your noble campaign.

Bharat
My email id is buzz2bharat@gmail.com
 
Thanks

bharatrattan said:
Dear Dhirendra,
I shall be glad to help you regarding the existing drug menace in NCR. This month I am very busy with academic preoccupations. Do write to me specifically about the information that would help you. After that I shall try to answer it in the best possible way or refer you to an authority in this field.
Best of luck for your noble campaign.

Bharat
My email id is buzz2bharat@gmail.com
Click to expand...

Dear Bharat,

Nice to have received your response. Perhaps, once you are finished with you academic schedule, I would ask you some specific questions and your inputs would be most valuable.

Thanks

Dhiren Singh
Advocate
 
Such an Important Issue !!

Hi All,

This issue will effect our coming generations in a big way. So it is very very Important !!! No doubt about that.

I agree with whatever has been said so far.

Education and Awareness is the Key.

Most if the marriages are still arranged in India, how this will Issue will be approached that remains to be seen.

But removing myths and educating the public is the first step.

Indian Govt is doing a lot but more needs to done.

I dont normally say this but bolloywood has made some good movies lately to raise the awareness regarding this issue.....more should be done and they should be exempted from any tax so masses can see them.
 
Freedom Vs Duty

Dear All,

It is a very interesting and pertinent topic raised on this site. I personally feel that we must have HIV testing done by both Bride and Groom prior to marriage. We have to separate Freedom from Duties. Freedom is of no use if it harms the fellow citizen least it be your spouse and future generation. I guess it is a social and morale obligation which every human being must fulfill
Enecting a law and enforcing it purposefully would be in good order. Why would one be shying for going for such test if he/she has nothing to hide specially from his/her would be life partner.

The problem would be the facility and the cost factor. Would a normal man with normal income would be able to afford it. Would it not lead to further corruption in our otherwise already corrupt system, where people may be able to change the results for money? Thus implementation of the law would gain more importance than enecting it.
 
Yes, it has to be self regulated but who is going to start it.

Also people can pay the doctors to give them a clean chit.

How does one prevent that.

Maybe Groom can ask Bride to go to their family doctor and vice versa.

Complex social issue !!!

Test Cost should be built in in the total cost of the marriage but that again is related to education and awareness. And for the poor arent their govt funded clinics availble, which do tests for free.
 
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antil-sunpatiya said:
Also people can pay the doctors to give them a clean chit.
How does one prevent that.
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In Indian context, this is the first thing came to my mind. This will surely happen. I've seen people submitting fake medical certificates for Govt. jobs, admissions and even for UPSC selections. For marriages it's too easy to manipulate thereby increasing tensions in relations.

I think social reforms can tackle this problem in a better manner.
 
itsnavin said:
In Indian context, this is the first thing came to my mind. This will surely happen. I've seen people submitting fake medical certificates for Govt. jobs, admissions and even for UPSC selections. For marriages it's too easy to manipulate thereby increasing tensions in relations.

I think social reforms can tackle this problem in a better manner.
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Also, "bhanzi" marne kaa ek aur tarika mil jayega junta ko, kee bhai, xyz to HIV+ hai.. ek bar rola mach gaya .. fer kitne hee certificate liyayiyoo.. fere kona firre!
 
anujkumar said:
Also, "bhanzi" marne kaa ek aur tarika mil jayega junta ko, kee bhai, xyz to HIV+ hai.. ek bar rola mach gaya .. fer kitne hee certificate liyayiyoo.. fere kona firre!
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Very pertinent point Anuj. Let us see what could be the solution?
 
bilkul sahi kaha!

anujkumar said:
Also, "bhanzi" marne kaa ek aur tarika mil jayega junta ko, kee bhai, xyz to HIV+ hai.. ek bar rola mach gaya .. fer kitne hee certificate liyayiyoo.. fere kona firre!
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yes...issi cheez ka to darr hai...
kal kisi ki ladki ke baarey mein unhi ke kisi 'dushman' ne aise hee bol diya ki woh HIV+ hai...kitney bhee certificate de lo...uski shadi nahin ho sakti...this is bitter truth!!
 
The issue is important as long as it is of academic interest or made applicable to others. I wonder how many of you will go to test yourself or take your sons/daugters/wards for the HIV test. Marriage is too sacred to be subjected to such mistrusts. Don't majority of us always act on the premise that "bad things can happen to others, not to me or my family". Moreover, majority of people become infected only after marriage except those who get it from their parents. Luckily among jats the number is just negligible. The idea looks to me as if taking an undertaking against widowhood. Is there anyone here who could guarantee against widowhood ?
 
Talk about HIV ..denial, stigma and discrimination accompany the deadly disease.

The premarital AIDS test should be there infact the policy should be to match the health reports of the bride and the groom instead of matching horoscopes. And with the fatal diseases like AIDS with no concrete cure yet it becomes even more vital. Though I'm not acquainted with the legal issues but I do believe in this dream (...people matching blood reports and not janampatri) and hope that it materializes someday. But I guess that would be just leap of faith if we don't addrress the key issue here which is discrimination.

As mentioned in the previous posts why do you think people would indulge into sham of getting false reports on basis of money? ..cause of social responses of repression and fear. If this fear of rejection can be overcome then perhaps there is a possibility of getting 'authentic' premarital AIDS tests done.

Having said that I would like to emphasize and as we all know too that its not a piece of cake to alter the mindset of the community regarding HIV ...the affected individuals get rejected even by their own family and the loved ones. I understand that AIDS is a life threatening disease but we do need to trigger compassion and support to bring out best in the affected individuals instead of discriminating and fuelling prejudice against them. Bear in mind that in our country AIDS is bit more of a social phenomenon than being a biological or medical concern.
 
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important issue in economic and social dimension.

Dear members!

atleast it will be a costly exercise for the nation...... to repeat ..people can always get a "clean" blood report...they can manage!!

the infection has a "window period" of approx 3 months from the time of infection...... the tests do not show up positive in this period,what if the person is in this period.

it has multifactorial method of spreading!!!

being diagnosed with HIV has all possible poor outcomes ...... prolonged illness,financial burden,social stigma,risk of spread,econonmic burden on limited health resources and others we can think of.

though premarital testing is good idea but what if the HIV gets in after the marriage.... what should be the reasonable time intervals to test them again.


are only the unmarried lot more prone to get the disease...... or responsible for the spread of disease?

according to my opinion the most significant factors that will make a difference to it will be :

EDUCATION ABOUT HIV!!!!

REMOVE THE SOCIAL STIGMA!!!!

government educating people ,parents educating their kids can make a difference.

only the knowledge about the disease and the adverse outcomes will contain the spread.


thanks,

jitendra
 
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ramksehrawat said:
The issue is important as long as it is of academic interest or made applicable to others. I wonder how many of you will go to test yourself or take your sons/daugters/wards for the HIV test. Marriage is too sacred to be subjected to such mistrusts. Don't majority of us always act on the premise that "bad things can happen to others, not to me or my family". Moreover, majority of people become infected only after marriage except those who get it from their parents. Luckily among jats the number is just negligible. The idea looks to me as if taking an undertaking against widowhood. Is there anyone here who could guarantee against widowhood ?
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Dear RK,

Its nice to see that we could get people debating but at the same time have we not missed the point in that the statistics show otherwise and the ground reality is that the HIV infected people have a fair mix of married and unmarried people in almost equal proportion. Atleast, this virus does not discriminate between married and unmarried people.

And to say that among Jats the number is just negligible is to put things very lightly, just visit some of the jat villages in Mathura and its an epidemic and knowlingly or unknowingly the community there is also taking the issue in the same vain as you have.

With regard to widowhood, I really could not get what you were trying to communicate. I would say that its not akin to a guarantee against widowhood but just a caution and the people who are HIV + could marry another person who is also +. Thats the only way out to prevent further transmissions unknowingly by one of the spouses who might not ever know that he or she is infected and a suggested self regulatory testing mechanism could be said to be responsible social behaviour.

Its interesting that we have debated and exchanged some thoughts.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate
 
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