Anna/Ramdev: Why the difference?

kapdal

New member
It is quite interesting that so many Jatlanders mock/ridicule/oppose Baba Ramdev for his "anti-corruption movement", while similar movement by Anna & co finds much more support. There is no difference of principle between the two. Even Anna & co are supporting Ramdev, atleast publicly, probably because they know he has much more mass support & funding than them. But there is not much condemnation on JL against what the govt. did at Ramlila grounds last night. In fact, there are comments on how Baba chickened away or was found out.

Then there are hypocrites who are ready to call anyone not supporting Anna's movement as cynics. But the same person(s) are ready to mock and ridicule Ramdev's "movement"!

How does anything justify this kind of police action on Ramdev and his supporters? He has a right to protest, irrespective of the fact whether he was fooling the government or whether he has a political agenda. You can't choose who you let protest and for what reason!

So what is it about Baba that makes him so much worse compared to Anna & co. Let me speculate on a few reasons.

1. Class bias against a saffron clad religious guru. You look cool supporting Anna & his army of good communicators from the "civil society". But supporting Baba isn't cool!

2. A belief that Baba is a crook while Anna and his team are genuine crusaders? Don't forget there were allegations against Bhushans. True or false, but there are only allegations against Baba as well.

3. Baba has a political agenda. Anyone fighting elections to gain political power is bad.

4. There may be a deep-rooted sentiment in Jats against Babas. I have seen so many babas who come begging in the name of god, being ridiculed.

5. Caste angle- he is a Yadav.

6. Any other reason?

Many people openly cite number 3. It is disappointing as it is actually good for anyone making demands in the rules/system to have a political agenda! If you want to change the system, the best way is to change it by getting legitimate power to do so. You can't force someone else to make the changes you want. And only when you have the responsibility to make the change yourself, would you realise what agenda makes sense and what doesn't.

I think there is an apparent class bias as well. It is so evident in media's reporting and it affects everyone. Throughout the day you could hear the spin about how Baba had been exposed (nevermind the govt. being exposed on multiple counts). As media belatedly realised that there was no justification for police action whatsoever, the spin changed to how the govt. action could have made Ramdev a hero! That is like giving back handed compliments. But when Anna's movement was on, media was firmly batting for him. The movement was pretty much media's creation!
 
Then there are hypocrites who are ready to call anyone not supporting Anna's movement as cynics. But the same person(s) are ready to mock and ridicule Ramdev's "movement"!

Is this refered to me? I used this word on the other thread :)
 
How about a poll to see how many members support Baba Ramdev, Anna Hazare, both or neither of the two?
 
People are supporting the movement against corruption. May not necessarily Ramdev or Anna. Whoever lead this movement honestly and with dedication would get support from the people who want changes to take place.

This is not either Anna or Ramdev its more about the movement be it with Ramdev or/and Anna or without both of them. At the moment Ramdev has bigger support and following and is in a better position to enforce changes.

Ramdev may have political ambitions where as Anna wants to keep politicians at bay. But we also need better alternative in politics as well. Probably some one like Narender Modi(He is widely regarded as one of the best as far as development is concerned). But we dont have many.

Even if Ramdev is successful in his movement and prove that he is honest. it doesnt necessarily mean that he he would be an able politician. A politician doesn't has to be honest all the times. But what we desire from him/her is to manipulate things with the well being of countrymen in his mind. However in this department of politics we dont have much alternative.

We hate congress but replace it with whom?? Lets see who present himself as an alternative. Till then its all speculations.
 
इन दोनों में वही अंतर है जो नेहरु और गाँधी में था










गोरे अंग्रेजो की जगह आज काले अंग्रेजो ने ले ली है
 
It is quite interesting that so many Jatlanders mock/ridicule/oppose Baba Ramdev for his "anti-corruption movement", while similar movement by Anna & co finds much more support.

It is not limited only to Jatlanders. Read the articles in other online newspapers; comments' section shows what 'readers' actually feel about Ramdev. I think it is a combination of many factors:

1. Saffron: Anything in Saffron is toxic to our media and by extension to netizens.
Presence of radical RSS personals also damaged Ramdev's cause. Suddenly the anti-corruption movement was branded as a political gimmick staged by RSS/BJP.
So, many Congressi Jatlanders did not approve Baba Ramdev. :D

2. Demand list of Ramdev: Most people disagree with him on at least one of the items on his list. (for some it is 1000 rs currency notes, for others it is anti-English stance, and so on).

3. Baba is rich: Anna is a fakir and hence a saint (metaphor for pious). Ramdev is a rich saint, hence corrupt and hence his crusade is farce!! a bit rich but strangely this seems to be the consensus.

Last night I was watching CNN's programme "Ramdev vs UPA", It was truly shocking. I mean the kind of people invited for debate were pathetic. Conspiracy theorists mostly.

One lady "something Hasmi" claimed that, Police has saved Ramdev's life because there was conspiracy by RSS to burn the pandal and kill people and repeat what happened in Godhara!! Further claimed that "we (God knows who constitute this we) will NOT allow to these babas to rule our mulk".
Most of the participants keep on hammering the point that baba has this much of land, 1000 crores of trust fund (like some Jatlanders do). No one, either anchor or participants bothered to ask whose fault is it? and what govt is doing about his trust funds (if illegal)!!

I am more and more convinced that UPA is controlling media (some of the news channels). Media is behaving as if the BJP/RSS or Ramdev have no rights to protest against corruption. They are in-bed with govt once again (as was shown by the Paid News scandal and Radia's tape).

Irony is: RSS did support Anna Hazare's fast and that did not make Hazare 'communal' but if RSS supports Ramdev, he becomes a "communal force". Appalling.

One analyst remark: "Anna Hazare's reach was among the upper middle class urbanites who mostly do not vote; these supporters of Hazare (though quite visible in media) did not bother govt as they are insignificant in terms of votes. Baba Ramdev's following is much larger and (extend to poors and ruralites) this bothers congress and Hence they first try to cut a deal with him (treated him as a state-gutst, 4 minsters went to airport to receive him), when failed retorted back to same time-tested 'BJP/RSS-are-communal' formula."
I very much agree.
 
Points to ponder about the possible conspiracies at Ramlila Ground on 3rd-5th June 2011:

1. Baba Ramdev claims that Delhi Police wanted to murder him in an encounter i.e. even after he safely reaches his place at Haridwar. All arrangements (including a private jet) for his safe journey were made by Delhi Police.

2. Baba Ramdev also clai...ms that 5000 of his followers including ladies have been abducted by police in that scoop of 5th June 2011.

3. What would have happened in the country, if Baba Ramdev had actually been able to flee from that Ramlila Ground and then hidden himself in an untraceable place??

4. Moreover earlier Baba Ramdev has always been publicly claiming that he does not wear stitched clothes, then why did he wear those stitched female clothes to flee from Ramlila ground??

5. The real facts can come from those ladies, who were with him when he was trying to flee from Ramlila ground. Did those ladies already know that Baba Ramdev would join them at that corner of the pandal, in case police comes to arrest him??

6. Info: There are also reports in media that some anti-national elements had planned to burn the pandal at 3 am on 5th June, 2011; thereby killing many people present there.
 
View attachment 11964article in A Switzerland Newspaper in 1991....! exposed 10 biggest owner of bl...ack money around the world...! lets check our Indian. 1/10 is RAJIV ghandhi..! dnt forgot this is 20 years old news...! if they expose in 2011 then 8/10 is indian
 
Is this refered to me? I used this word on the other thread :)

Everything in the opening post has been said by someone or the other, but I am not going to give references to individuals. Whatever I feel, my aim in that post was to target broad trends. You can decide for yourself if anything in there holds true for you or not.
 


6. Info: There are also reports in media that some anti-national elements had planned to burn the pandal at 3 am on 5th June, 2011; thereby killing many people present there.

Bingo :D :D

If true, should the police NOT be arresting those anti-national elements rather than tear-gassing innocent people??

OR did you mean the crowd was the anti-national element and had planned to burn themselves?
 
Probably a main reason is : Anna has proved himself and people have seen the work done by him. Ramdev has yet to prove himself.

Yes, that's a possible reasoning people can give- so should be added to the list. I don't see any merit in that argument. Anna has proved himself in a totally different setting- that of his social work in creating a model village. That ways Ramdev too has proved himself in spreading Yoga, and that too on a much bigger scale. None of Anna's anti-corruption crusades in the past actually led to any tangible reduction in corruption levels.
 
Points to ponder about the possible conspiracies at Ramlila Ground on 3rd-5th June 2011:

1. Baba Ramdev claims that Delhi Police wanted to murder him in an encounter i.e. even after he safely reaches his place at Haridwar. All arrangements (including a private jet) for his safe journey were made by Delhi Police.

2. Baba Ramdev also clai...ms that 5000 of his followers including ladies have been abducted by police in that scoop of 5th June 2011.

3. What would have happened in the country, if Baba Ramdev had actually been able to flee from that Ramlila Ground and then hidden himself in an untraceable place??

4. Moreover earlier Baba Ramdev has always been publicly claiming that he does not wear stitched clothes, then why did he wear those stitched female clothes to flee from Ramlila ground??

5. The real facts can come from those ladies, who were with him when he was trying to flee from Ramlila ground. Did those ladies already know that Baba Ramdev would join them at that corner of the pandal, in case police comes to arrest him??

6. Info: There are also reports in media that some anti-national elements had planned to burn the pandal at 3 am on 5th June, 2011; thereby killing many people present there.

Where is this from? Hopefully, you didn't write it yourself. Point number 3 to 6 are not even trying to be serious.

On points 1 and 2, I agree that Ramdev is not a paragon of virtue. He is prone to hyperbole, but so are many others in public space. Whatever Ramdev is or says can't deny the fact that what the government did on Saturday night was totally unpardonable. And these conspiracy theories shouldn't be used to justify that action.
 
It is quite interesting that so many Jatlanders mock/ridicule/oppose Baba Ramdev for his "anti-corruption movement", while similar movement by Anna & co finds much more support. There is no difference of principle between the two. Even Anna & co are supporting Ramdev, atleast publicly, probably because they know he has much more mass support & funding than them. But there is not much condemnation on JL against what the govt. did at Ramlila grounds last night. In fact, there are comments on how Baba chickened away or was found out.

Then there are hypocrites who are ready to call anyone not supporting Anna's movement as cynics. But the same person(s) are ready to mock and ridicule Ramdev's "movement"!

How does anything justify this kind of police action on Ramdev and his supporters? He has a right to protest, irrespective of the fact whether he was fooling the government or whether he has a political agenda. You can't choose who you let protest and for what reason!

So what is it about Baba that makes him so much worse compared to Anna & co. Let me speculate on a few reasons.

1. Class bias against a saffron clad religious guru. You look cool supporting Anna & his army of good communicators from the "civil society". But supporting Baba isn't cool!

2. A belief that Baba is a crook while Anna and his team are genuine crusaders? Don't forget there were allegations against Bhushans. True or false, but there are only allegations against Baba as well.

3. Baba has a political agenda. Anyone fighting elections to gain political power is bad.

4. There may be a deep-rooted sentiment in Jats against Babas. I have seen so many babas who come begging in the name of god, being ridiculed.

5. Caste angle- he is a Yadav.

6. Any other reason?

Many people openly cite number 3. It is disappointing as it is actually good for anyone making demands in the rules/system to have a political agenda! If you want to change the system, the best way is to change it by getting legitimate power to do so. You can't force someone else to make the changes you want. And only when you have the responsibility to make the change yourself, would you realise what agenda makes sense and what doesn't.

I think there is an apparent class bias as well. It is so evident in media's reporting and it affects everyone. Throughout the day you could hear the spin about how Baba had been exposed (nevermind the govt. being exposed on multiple counts). As media belatedly realised that there was no justification for police action whatsoever, the spin changed to how the govt. action could have made Ramdev a hero! That is like giving back handed compliments. But when Anna's movement was on, media was firmly batting for him. The movement was pretty much media's creation!

If one sees the two episodes as 'the' "movements" then their is very little difference between them. Both 'the' "movements" targeted corruption and improvement of laws for better governance. The differences comes when one put's a face to the "movement". People, in general, do not participate for "the" "movement" but they tend to rally behind "the" faces (identities).

When comparing the "movements" as two individuals, things become very different. In fact, if the recent episodes are kept aside, there are more differences between the two then there are similarities.

On coming to Ramdev bashing, the bashing can be attributed to mainly his rich lifestyle and non cohesive set of demands. There is a difference between people's perception on what he preaches and what he does. People, in general, has a perception of a "baba" as one who has no place of his own and leaves a life of austerity. His lifestyle of private jets, even if it for greater good, does not go well with people, particularly the rural forks who have no exposure to the difficulties of frequent travel. Then there are people from urban section, who thinks his anti-west ideology as unfruitful and illogical.
 
Everything in the opening post has been said by someone or the other, but I am not going to give references to individuals. Whatever I feel, my aim in that post was to target broad trends. You can decide for yourself if anything in there holds true for you or not.

OK. I was just asking if you are refering to me you can name openly.


Yes, that's a possible reasoning people can give- so should be added to the list. I don't see any merit in that argument. Anna has proved himself in a totally different setting- that of his social work in creating a model village. That ways Ramdev too has proved himself in spreading Yoga, and that too on a much bigger scale. None of Anna's anti-corruption crusades in the past actually led to any tangible reduction in corruption levels. .

May not have sharp mind as you but thought it might be a point that Anna had been helping people selflessly for years and has no political motive wheras baba's motives are political as well. There had been lot of such babas in the past like Asharam etc and all know what happened. Politicians and people with political aspirations are always suspected here. However this baba could be diff but we are talking about perception here.
 
View attachment 11964article in A Switzerland Newspaper in 1991....! exposed 10 biggest owner of bl...ack money around the world...! lets check our Indian. 1/10 is RAJIV ghandhi..! dnt forgot this is 20 years old news...! if they expose in 2011 then 8/10 is indian

Rakesh, probably that is the only reason why congress is opposing Baba tooth and nail!
Idiots and cronies of Sonia like Digvijay Singh keep vomiting rubbish without any proof or substance.
Some one keep repeating a lie and some of the people specially the people near the fence would be drawn to that and start believing.
He would keep on repeating that he cheated this person and that person. Like keep on saying that he cheated Acharya Karamveer. No body is going to ask him to explain what he did. Even if somebody asks him, he wouldn't have a thing to tell. Because there is nothing wrong he has done. Acharrya Karamveer, baba Ramdev and Acharya balkishan were associates who started Patanjali Yogpeeth. Later developed differences and parted ways. Digvijay singh and likes would keep accusing that Baba has amassed illegal wealth. Baba would keep asking them that he was ready for any inquiry. But congress wouldn't do that because their is nothing illegal but would keep using it to malign Baba! Keep using as weapon against baba! To further info in your slide, please read this:

http://www.sunday-guardian.com/analysis/an-appeal-to-all-loyal-citizens-of-india
 
There is a difference in the movement that has "political aspirations" and that has not, though circulating the same agenda. Though it's not bad to have political aspirations if a particular is carrying some agenda for public welfare but a thing lies deep down in the mind of Indian people " a person with poltical aspiration can do no good for them, ultimately he will start gulping crores of money, will indulge in scam", politicians are stereotyped in India people mind as parasites who suck their blood so at this very first step, ramdev baba fell down in the eyes of people in comparison of Anna.

Secondly, the baba luxurious way of living, property worth of 1100 crores, travelling in private jet, owning an island in foreign country make people skeptical. ramdev is making money from every corner of the world. There are allegations against baba for accumulating such a huge property, politicians like diggi babu are targeting him in media for a very long time. Whether these allegations are true or not, it disturbed the people mind somehow. Anna fought for RTI, assets of anna are neglible in comparison of baba, living a simple life in a small room of a village temple, and noone raised a finger on him till date and most importantly, he did not show any political aspirations. it attracts people and they fell a bit confident about honesty of the person for the campaign.

thirdly, some of his demand are quite illogical and medium/upper class people can hardly digest his campaign against English language and foreign items. They feel ramdev wants to take india in dark ages again. Can we remain progressive after abolishing English and cutting off all relations with foreign companies.

And fourth thing, baba is being seen as a communal face and not a secular one and it gives space to some people to defame him.

Anyway, I think it was a barbarian act from government side to crush the movement like this. If ramdev had violated any law, he could have been warned first and why goverment did not allocate any time frame to end the agitation, like 12 hours or 1 day. Goverment was quite anxious to wipe out Ramdev movement, may be goverment was scared seeing such a huge gathering or gov felt that this movement can benifit BJP
 
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OK. I was just asking if you are refering to me you can name openly.




May not have sharp mind as you but thought it might be a point that Anna had been helping people selflessly for years and has no political motive wheras baba's motives are political as well. There had been lot of such babas in the past like Asharam etc and all know what happened. Politicians and people with political aspirations are always suspected here. However this baba could be diff but we are talking about perception here.

Bhai mere, why the sarcasm yet again!!?? I agreed with you that it is a possible reason! The political motive reasoning, I myself gave in the original post.

And then I just added that I don't agree with this reason/perception. Like I don't agree with all the reasons/perceptions I gave in my original post. The thread is to discuss the various perceptions and I appreciate your contribution!
 
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