Are IIT/IIMs Facing Saturation Crisis ?

Agreed, else no ethical person will be rich or no ethical person will have a high IQ.

Coming to your point of context, common beliefs and paths in not-best colleges, not-so-good teachers, not-great facilities will still lead to some "common" path, a path definitely different from the path of best schools/colleges, but "better"????...More ethical???
A subset (not all) of both is mutually exclusive.

The point, in context, here is that the best schools, teachers, facilities, etc are not a necessaria criteria for becoming 'the' best. Common belives and paths would lead only to a common place.
 
And on the topic- lest I am misunderstood, I was NOT making a value judgment about contribution of IITs/IIMs in either positive or negative terms. I was just telling it the way it is. It should be clear to anyone who reads my post without any bias.

Personally, I believe the situation is far from ideal. I am not in favor of the filtering mechanism as it leads to rat race rather than actual learning or realisation of an individual's potential/aspirations. But it has to be understood that the way it works in India, a young person can't aspire for much. There are no real choices. In absence of any choices, atleast the top institutes provide an outlet to the aspiration of achievement.

Ideally, there should be no scarcity of high quality education in all fields. Young people should be thinking about what they want to do rather than what they have to do. Everyone should be able to try out a few things before settling onto something and it should never be difficult to change fields. None of this is true in India. And you have to work with what you have.
 
Yeah, after selling off all the natural resources, the politicians now want to encash of 'good' (markatable) brand image of these institutions. Private players can makes milliions out of this brand image, so why not take a share of it.
The alumni, their successful life-after-college, create the best and the most sustainable brand image. You are in for a tough struggle after graduation if you fall for any other "brand image" of an institution.
 
"Community comes before the individual" captures the strongly prescriptive and authoritarian format of the communism which advocates Utopia but practises tyrnanny of the chosen few in the name of community. They usurp power by advocating "All men are equal" and once in power "become more equal than others". Their children go to the best universities in the world (Case in point- Bengali Communists), while the masses are forced through a sub-standard education system and any sort of individual merit is suppressed.

!

Kapil, your post was an excellent read but I have some doubts about the authenticity of lines in the red. Of course, among the Bengali communists some people like Jyoti Basu (Barrister from UK), Inderjit Gupta, Somnath Chatterjee and probably a few more hailed from the elite class and were foreign educated but I doubt they sent their children to foreign lands for study. It is, however, true that there could be more Indian intellectuals with rich background who embraced communist ideology, but once they submerged in the red colour they adopted a simple lify-style. Anyway, it is not very relevant to the topic.
 
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एक आम है और एक संतरा दोनों का आपस में तुलना करना एक बेवकूफी है ! वर्मा जी ने बिटोड़े से मुंह खोला और गोसे बगा दिए! ये वही देश है जिसमे माँ बाप बचपन से पैसे जोड़ते हैं की उनका बेटा डिग्री करेगा और फिर कहीं अच्छी जगह नौकरी करेगा और उनके दुखड़े हर लेगा ! जय राम जी से कोई पूछे की उन्होंने कितने रेसेरचेर्स को फंडिंग दी है ? यहाँ पैसा उसे मिलता है जो सरकारी महकमे में है और वो हरामखोर पूरी उम्र उस पैसे को जीम के हजम कर जाता है और रिसर्च के नाम पे कुछ नहीं करता ! रिसर्च के लिए प्रोफेसर बहुत काबिल हैं पर क्या उन्होंने किसी प्रोफेसर को कहा की आप रिसर्च करिए में पैसे दूंगा ! आदमी की आधी से ज्यादा जिंदगी निकल जाती है प्रोफेसर बनने में चालीस की उम्र में आदमी प्रोफेसर बनता है ! रिसर्च कोई गुड्डे गुडियों का खेल नहीं की १५ रुपये में बाजार में मिल जाये इसमें करोडो भी लग जाते हैं और फिर भी नतीजे नहीं निकलते हिंदुस्तान एरोनोटिक्स नाम की एक दुकान सरकार ने खोली हुई है जिसमे अरबो खरब रूपया गरत हो गया जिसके बदले उन्होंने क्या दिया देश को? अब इन्हें भी देखो
http://www.jaibhojpuri.com/profiles/blogs/3634233:BlogPost:११०१२३
http://aajtak.intoday.in/videoplay.php/videos/view/८३०७
क्या लगता है इन छात्रों को सरकार ने कुछ दिया होगा? इंजीनियरिंग के अंतिम वर्ष में कोई प्रोजेक्ट बनाना होता है जोकि खुद बच्चो की जेब से जाता है कभी कभी कुछ पैसा कॉलेज दे देता है और कभी कोई प्राइवेट कंपनी जोकि बदले में छात्रों को नौकरी भी देती है एक बोंड के साथ! क्या कभी सरकार ने कोई महकमा बनाया जोकि प्रोजेक्ट सिनोप्सिस के लिहाज से छात्रों को पैसे दे या प्रोफेसर को ? आज किसी ने प्रोजेक्ट बनाया और उसकी रिपोर्ट सरकारी महकमे में लगाई ताकि वो अपनी रिसर्च जारी रख सके तो उसकी चप्पल घिस जाएँगी और काले बाल सफ़ेद हो जायेंगे पर कोई वर्मा उस से पूछने नहीं आयेगा की क्यों धक्के खा रहा है ! वहीँ जिन देशो से मंत्री जी हमारी तुलना कर रहे हैं उनमे लाखो करोडो रुपया पानी की तरह बहा दिया जायेगा और अगर आज कोई कामयाब नहीं हो पाया तो कोई दूसरा उस प्रोजेक्ट को संभालेगा पूरी टेक्निकल टीम उस प्रोजेक्ट पर काम करेगी ! एक आईडिया की कीमत उनके लिए अनमोल है जबकि यहाँ पांच रुपये किलो रद्दी के भाव बिकती है !
 
एक आम है और एक संतरा दोनों का आपस में तुलना करना एक बेवकूफी है ! वर्मा जी ने बिटोड़े से मुंह खोला और गोसे बगा दिए! ये वही देश है जिसमे माँ बाप बचपन से पैसे जोड़ते हैं की उनका बेटा डिग्री करेगा और फिर कहीं अच्छी जगह नौकरी करेगा और उनके दुखड़े हर लेगा ! जय राम जी से कोई पूछे की उन्होंने कितने रेसेरचेर्स को फंडिंग दी है ? यहाँ पैसा उसे मिलता है जो सरकारी महकमे में है और वो हरामखोर पूरी उम्र उस पैसे को जीम के हजम कर जाता है और रिसर्च के नाम पे कुछ नहीं करता ! रिसर्च के लिए प्रोफेसर बहुत काबिल हैं पर क्या उन्होंने किसी प्रोफेसर को कहा की आप रिसर्च करिए में पैसे दूंगा ! आदमी की आधी से ज्यादा जिंदगी निकल जाती है प्रोफेसर बनने में चालीस की उम्र में आदमी प्रोफेसर बनता है ! रिसर्च कोई गुड्डे गुडियों का खेल नहीं की १५ रुपये में बाजार में मिल जाये इसमें करोडो भी लग जाते हैं और फिर भी नतीजे नहीं निकलते हिंदुस्तान एरोनोटिक्स नाम की एक दुकान सरकार ने खोली हुई है जिसमे अरबो खरब रूपया गरत हो गया जिसके बदले उन्होंने क्या दिया देश को? अब इन्हें भी देखो
http://www.jaibhojpuri.com/profiles/blogs/3634233:BlogPost:११०१२३
http://aajtak.intoday.in/videoplay.php/videos/view/८३०७
क्या लगता है इन छात्रों को सरकार ने कुछ दिया होगा? इंजीनियरिंग के अंतिम वर्ष में कोई प्रोजेक्ट बनाना होता है जोकि खुद बच्चो की जेब से जाता है कभी कभी कुछ पैसा कॉलेज दे देता है और कभी कोई प्राइवेट कंपनी जोकि बदले में छात्रों को नौकरी भी देती है एक बोंड के साथ! क्या कभी सरकार ने कोई महकमा बनाया जोकि प्रोजेक्ट सिनोप्सिस के लिहाज से छात्रों को पैसे दे या प्रोफेसर को ? आज किसी ने प्रोजेक्ट बनाया और उसकी रिपोर्ट सरकारी महकमे में लगाई ताकि वो अपनी रिसर्च जारी रख सके तो उसकी चप्पल घिस जाएँगी और काले बाल सफ़ेद हो जायेंगे पर कोई वर्मा उस से पूछने नहीं आयेगा की क्यों धक्के खा रहा है ! वहीँ जिन देशो से मंत्री जी हमारी तुलना कर रहे हैं उनमे लाखो करोडो रुपया पानी की तरह बहा दिया जायेगा और अगर आज कोई कामयाब नहीं हो पाया तो कोई दूसरा उस प्रोजेक्ट को संभालेगा पूरी टेक्निकल टीम उस प्रोजेक्ट पर काम करेगी ! एक आईडिया की कीमत उनके लिए अनमोल है जबकि यहाँ पांच रुपये किलो रद्दी के भाव बिकती है !

कती खालिस जट्टां बरगी बात कह दी भाई | १६ आन्ने साची |
 
Source of research funding-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_of_science
Of course, as everything else in our country, the onus of lack of funding lies primarily with the Government.

Rakesh raised very valid points in his post-
Are we ready to wait till 40 years of age to be professors and start earning, when our peers already are earning since they were 23-24 years old?
Even if there was funding for research, will we prefer to do research, or start to earn as young as possible?
Are we ready to accept research for sake of knowledge and no hard gains? Are we ok with government pumping crores into "useless" research when millions struggle for a living?

How conducive research will be in India where money can be spent on more pressing needs of the country? Not at all, right?
 
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Source of research funding-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funding_of_science
Of course, as everything else in our country, the onus of lack of funding lies primarily with the Government.

Rakesh raised very valid points in his post-
Are we ready to wait till 40 years of age to be professors and start earning, when our peers already are earning since they were 23-24 years old?
Even if there was funding for research, will we prefer to do research, or start to earn as young as possible?
Are we ready to accept research for sake of knowledge and no hard gains? Are we ok with government pumping crores into "useless" research when millions struggle for a living?

How conducive research will be in India where money can be spent on more pressing needs of the country? Not at all, right?

I beg to differ here with Rakesh. Putting all the blame on our economic condition would only make us more poorer. It wouldn't solve the problems. There are many nations who, despite being once financially poor reached great hights. Japan is a classic example.

The problem is not with funding or money. The root of the problem lies in the governance and culture.

How many of you agree that a JBT teacher really does justice to his/her salary? I have seen senior professors in universities who take less then 2 lectures a day. After those 2 hours, it totally depends on the individual how he/she wants to spend the rest of the day's time. Where is the money, a constraint here?

On the other hand, the scientific talent is not being recognized by the government. How many scientists have got the national awards? Compare them with the people in other fields like entertainment (bollywood), media (journalism) and sports (cricket) and you would know their status vis-à-vis other fields. Even though these fields are far less productive for the society then the scientific research, researchers seldom get sthe social status and importance they deserve.

Worst part is that this discrimination is true even in private industries like IT. You go to any Indian IT industry and you will know that a technical person would always be treated 2nd grade in comparison to a corresponding management person.
 
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मेरे दोस्त आपको बिलकुल हक़ है आपने विचार रखने का बेग आली कोए बात नहीं है ! अच्छा सुनो आपको एक घटना सुनाता हूँ एक प्रोफेसर ने अपने छात्रों के साथ मिलकर एक रिसर्च करी विद्युत् पर्सारण को लेकर और एक रिपोर्ट तैयार की ! कोपेनहैगन के सम्मलेन में वो आपके जयराम वर्मा जी से मुखातिब हुए और अपनी रिपोर्ट और रिसर्च को पेश किया जिसकी तारीफ भी हुई ! वर्मा जी ने कहा की वो दिल्ली आकार उनसे भेंट करें पर यहाँ आने के बाद जब भी उन्हें फ़ोन किया गया तो उन्होंने बात नहीं की और की तो समय ही नहीं दिया दो साल बीत गए हैं और वो रिपोर्ट अब पुरानी भी हो चुकी है ! उसे कोई पूछने वाला नहीं यहाँ तक की उस रिपोर्ट पर कुछ कंपनियों ने सवाल भी उठाये की उसमे दिए गए तथ्य झूठे हैं पर उन्होंने अपने तथ्यों को सही साबित किया है क्योंकि वो सब डाटा उन्ही कंपनियों द्वारा दिया गया था ! लेकिन टैक्स भरते समय और शेयर निकालते समय दोनों बैलेंस शीट अलग अलग दी जाती हैं ! उद्धरण के तौर पर इंडियन आयल की पर्फोर्मांस शेयर मार्केट में देखे http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=BOM:५३०९६५ और साल के अंत में इसका मुनाफा देखें पर सारे साल ये घाटे में चलते रहते हैं और तेल के दाम में आग लगाये रखते हैं ! खैर उसके बारे में बाद में बात करेंगे पर बात हो रही है मास्टरों की तो आपको मास्टर की तनख्वाह ज्यादा लगती है पर मेरे दोस्त कितने लोग सरकारी नौकरी लगते हैं और जो लगते हैं और वो अपने फिल्ड में कुछ अच्छा करते हैं तो उसकी खबर सिर्फ लोकल अख़बार के क्षेत्र वाले पन्ने के एक कोने की शोभा बढ़ा कर रह जाती है! एक साल पहले एक खबर आयी थी झज्झर के एक गाँव के सरकारी स्कूल के विद्यार्थी आई आई टी में चुने गए हैं पर कितने लोगो ने खबर पढ़ी और सुनी शायद ही दस पांच लोग होंगे जाटलैंड पर जबकि ये खबर यहाँ भी लिखी गयी थी ! इस दुनिया में हर वो आदमी जो मेहनत करता है उसे कम से कम उस मेहनत के बदले एक छोटी सी इज्ज़त मिलने का हक़ है ! नेकी कर दरिया में डाल ही करना है तो फायदा क्या?
एक छोटा सा सवाल है आपसे " क्या आप अपने अध्यापको से मिलने गए हैं कभी ? और इसका जवाब ९९% ना होगा और इसमें अहम् वाली कोई बात नहीं क्योंकि हमें समय नहीं होता पर क्या हमारा हक़ नहीं होता की हम जिस गुरु ने हमें आज यहाँ खड़ा कर दिया उसके दुःख सुख जानने का ? गुरु का एक ही धेयेय होता है की अपने छात्रों को पढ़ा लिखा कर उनमे वो सामाजिक गुण भरे की वो जिंदगी में कामयाब हो ! पर क्या छात्रों का कोई फर्ज नहीं बनता ! रही बात वर्मा की तो में भी उनकी इज्ज़त करता था क्योंकि उनके कई काम मुझे बहुत पसंद आये थे पर इस काम को देख कर उनकी वो प्रतिमूर्ति आज धूमिल हो गयी !
 
IITian Anant Agarwal to head MIT's largest lab

Boston: The prestigious Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has named Indian academician Anant Agarwal as director of its Computer Science and Artificial Intelligence Laboratory (CSAIL), the institute's largest interdisciplinary lab.
An IIT Chennai and Stanford University alumnus, Agarwal will assume his new role on July 1.
A professor in the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, Agarwal succeeds Victor Zue, who served four years as CSAIL s director.
anant212.jpg

The key appointment comes days after MIT named another Indian-origin professor Anantha Chandrakasan to lead the Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science, the largest academic department in the institute.
Chandrakasan is Professor of Electrical Engineering at MIT and will also be assuming his new role on July 1.
School of Engineering Dean Ian Waitz said he looked forward to Agarwal's "vision and enthusiasm as he takes on this important leadership role."
Agarwal is currently the leader of the Carbon Research Group at CSAIL, which is dedicated to research and developing operating systems and architecture for multicore and cloud computing.
Currently, he leads Project Angstrom, a multidisciplinary research endeavour uniting scientists from top universities and industry collaborators in an effort to develop a new multicore system.
Agarwal is a founder and chief technology officer of Tilera Corporation, where the Tile multicore processor was created.
CSAIL is MIT s largest interdepartmental laboratory, with 900 members and more than 100 principal investigators coming from eight departments.
It includes approximately 50 research groups organized into three focus areas of artificial intelligence, systems and theory.
The research groups are supported by grants from US government agencies such as the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, NASA, the National Institutes of Health, the National Science Foundation amongst others.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/iitian-to-head-mits-largest-interdisciplinary-lab/161288-2.html
 
Poor quality of students entering IITs: Narayana Murthy

NEW YORK: Voicing his displeasure over the quality of engineers that pass out of the IITs,Infosys chairman emeritus N R Narayana Murthy has said there is a need to overhaul the selection criteria for students seeking admission to the prestigious technology institutions.

Addressing a gathering of hundreds of former IITians at a 'Pan IIT' summit here, Murthy said the quality of students entering Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) has deteriorated over the years due to the coaching classes that prepareengineering aspirants.

He said the majority of the students fare poorly at jobs and global institutions of higher education.

"Thanks to the coaching classes today, the quality of students entering IITs has gone lower and lower," Murthy said, receiving a thundering applause from his audience.

He said apart from the top 20% of students who crack the tough IIT entrance examination and can "stand among the best anywhere in the world," quality of the remaining 80 per cent of students leave much to be desired.

Coaching classes teach aspirants limited sets of problems, out of which a few are asked in the examinations.

"They somehow get through the joint entrance examination. But their performance in IITs, at jobs or when they come for higher education in institutes in the US is not as good as it used to be.

"This has to be corrected. A new method of selection of students to IITs has to be arrived at."

Drawing a road map to put IITs among the top engineering institutes in the world, Murthy said it has to be ensured that IITs "transcend from being just teaching institutions to reasonably good research institutes" at par with Harvard and MIT in the next 10-20 years.

"Few IITs have done well in producing PhDs but in reality when we compare ourselves to institutions in this country, we have a long way to go," he said.

More emphasis has to be given to research at the undergraduate level and examinations should test independent thinking of students rather than their ability to solve problems.

Murthy said in order to produce good research at IITs, the Indian government has to be persuaded to create institutions that fund research projects.

In addition, faculty members should also be evaluated annually on their research performance by an independent committee, Murthy said adding that India must shift from the tenure system for its faculty to a five year contractual appointment system.

The Infosys mentor also lamented the poor English speaking and social skills of a majority of IIT students, saying with Indian politicians "rooting against English", the task of getting good English speaking students at IITs gets more difficult.

"An IITian has to be a global citizen and must understand where the globe is going," he added.

Murthy also stressed the need to have the governing council of IITs made up of its alumni.

The only way IITs can become better is if 80-90 per cent of members on their governing council are alumni.

"Nobody is bothered about an institution more than its alumni. We must somehow persuade the government of India to let go of its control and make sure majority of the council members is the IIT alumni."

Murthy urged IITians spread across the globe to work with their alma mater to ensure that IITs are among the top 10 engineering schools of the world.

He said while only a couple of IITs feature in the top 50, there should be at least five IITs in the top 10 engineering schools in the world in the next 10-20 years, he added.
 
Its not the quality of students its the quality of education system at higher and sr. sec. level.
A private college student know not less than an IITian or NITian. Offcourse NITs and IITs have better facilities, labs ,professors and some really bright students. But how many of these bright students think of their career in research rather MBA.
 
I agree to Akshay to most of it. But the main thing to note is the quality of students solely depends on the Institutions from where they pursue their respective educations.
What really needs to be changed is the Quality of education at all levels. Whether its IITs/IIMs or any regional college what matters the most is the Education imparted to the students.
For development we need a conducive environment that can only be created by spreading awareness and raising the standard of Education at all levels.
 
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