bebuniyaadi bakwas

[hamendra]

If it was superiority complex, it is not based on reality. Just think how jats had haggled with central government to get SC status in rajasthan. How many jats are "really prosperous?" How many really help out other jats? Just showing up for meetings and having photo sessions is not enough. Jats(both men and ladies) in general are very jealous of achievements of other jats. Generally they will be nicer to non-jats then to jats. Is jat kaum mein ekta nahee jaab tak sacahi ka seedha samanna na kar sakee. Meethi meethi jooti baateen banaee see kya milega? accha ho kamajoree maan leee aur sudhar leee individually. Otherwise keep on cooking up stuff and associate with people(like jews) who don't give a damn about it.

Mere Bhai Pradeep,
In Rajsthan, Jats have not got SC status, for your information that is BC/OBC status.
Jats community is the hardworker community and the blames which you have put on Jat community, that's totally wrong.
You don't say like this for whole community.

 

[rkumar]

Dear Pradeep:
I support your contention regarding the fools' paradise being created by some self styled historians on this site and i have expressed my concern regarding this in an earlier post; this seems like a hidden "brahminical" direction into which the Jats are cornering themselves.
Also this site has a plethora of sympathisers of the right wing (BJP/RSS) who simply crowd out the genuine concerns of some apolitical and committed members.
I want to ask these right wing sympathisers the status Brahmin has accorded to the hardworking, honest (not so honest in cities) Jats; plain and simple we are Shudras in the varna system which is crafted by the pen of the Brahmin. Any concerns about the possible role of Jats in the vision of the Brahmin? These people have a false sense of our immediate history and are steering us into a hopeless position where our religious affiliation takes precedence over other unique virtues we have.
I agree with the fact that the way some immediate relatives behave with you could be primitive and insensitive; but i must say that me and my family have received unprecedented support from some members on this site which has more than compensated the deficiencies i have felt.
I think you can filter the crap here and still make good use of this resource.
Best Wishes, Anmol.

1. Which post on Jat history sounds Brahmnical to you Ratan? I would be keen to read your detailed response to this. Does looking for our historical roots amount to living in fools' paradise? Will you please define intelligents' paradise where we should aim to live?

2. Why do you judge the community by bad people? Which community on the Earth does not have bad people? We all have our share of dealing with good and bad people from all sorts of communities. As you have mentioned about your family getting the unprecedented support from jat members, this alone should be enough for you not to call names to any jat. Think how your family can now pay back to the community for the support it got.

As far as crap is concerned, I see more of that in this thread. Crap is a matter of individual's outlook. Calling others view crap is the crap of highest order.

Rajendra

 

[ratananmol]

Dear RKji:
Please read my post carefully; i have not singled any post but it is my suspicion that the views of our foreign origins is a conspiracy hatched by the Brahmin to consolidate his claim on India; I think you can yourself locate some credible references regarding the flaws in the Aryan invasion theory itself. If you cant i will help you.
Second, numbers dont determine truth; the fact that this site has seen the influx of the right wing sympathisers accompanied by the exit (almost) of sincere (level minded) ppl like Prof.Birbal Singh has not gone unnoticed. You can dig out some of posts regarding his views on this matter at jatland.
Third, I have time and again acknowledged the support given to me by various people which at least should indicate that i am going to repay it back (without having to report it to you).And i think repayment is not something which has to be constrained by caste considerations either.I will not hesitate to help a needy person (jat or non jat) as and when opportunity arises.
Fourth, my previous post was not intended against any single person and it is a general reaction to all such posts who are steering us in the wrong direction. My position on this is clear: Jats are the most original inhabitants of the Indian nation and the Brahmins have invaded and tricked our minds as they continue to do so now.
Fifth, please flex your muscles elsewhere; i am neither your age nor competing with you in any way (unless you also believe and propogate the ideology of hatred toward other humans). My brother had posted his real experience about what others feel about Jats in one of his threads.Please see: http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9322&page=2. The person mentioned here is Dr.Kapur (a very respected Scholar from your medical fraternity who is probably still at PHC Faridabad). The fact that better physical ability easily translates into Goondaism in our community youth is a problem which needs to be recognised and curbed. I myself come from a college where Jats used to drink in the college campus without any restraint. Some of my relatives work as sweepers in sweden (and claim descendence from the the Royal family of Sweden after reading some of the posts on jatland), rent collectors of unauthorised constructions in Delhi (which were in news recently), policemen in Delhi who have more performing assets than the non-performing assets of Reserve Bank of India and all kind of pettiness i can describe with ill conceived humor. I think i have the freedom to decry their acts anywhere (and not just on jatland).
I am busy and very concerned about certain things i cant discuss here.
With due regards,
Saadar Namaste.

 

[rkumar]

Dear RKji:
Please read my post carefully; i have not singled any post but it is my suspicion that the views of our foreign origins is a conspiracy hatched by the Brahmin to consolidate his claim on India; I think you can yourself locate some credible references regarding the flaws in the Aryan invasion theory itself. If you cant i will help you.
Second, numbers dont determine truth; the fact that this site has seen the influx of the right wing sympathisers accompanied by the exit (almost) of sincere (level minded) ppl like Prof.Birbal Singh has not gone unnoticed. You can dig out some of posts regarding his views on this matter at jatland.
Third, I have time and again acknowledged the support given to me by various people which at least should indicate that i am going to repay it back (without having to report it to you).And i think repayment is not something which has to be constrained by caste considerations either.I will not hesitate to help a needy person (jat or non jat) as and when opportunity arises.
Fourth, my previous post was not intended against any single person and it is a general reaction to all such posts who are steering us in the wrong direction. My position on this is clear: Jats are the most original inhabitants of the Indian nation and the Brahmins have invaded and tricked our minds as they continue to do so now.
Fifth, please flex your muscles elsewhere; i am neither your age nor competing with you in any way (unless you also believe and propogate the ideology of hatred toward other humans). My brother had posted his real experience about what others feel about Jats in one of his threads.Please see: http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9322&page=2. The person mentioned here is Dr.Kapur (a very respected Scholar from your medical fraternity who is probably still at PHC Faridabad). The fact that better physical ability easily translates into Goondaism in our community youth is a problem which needs to be recognised and curbed. I myself come from a college where Jats used to drink in the college campus without any restraint. Some of my relatives work as sweepers in sweden (and claim descendence from the the Royal family of Sweden after reading some of the posts on jatland), rent collectors of unauthorised constructions in Delhi (which were in news recently), policemen in Delhi who have more performing assets than the non-performing assets of Reserve Bank of India and all kind of pettiness i can describe with ill conceived humor. I think i have the freedom to decry their acts anywhere (and not just on jatland).
I am busy and very concerned about certain things i cant discuss here.
With due regards,
Saadar Namaste.

1. If you read posts in history section, this is exactly most of us have been trying to prove by quoting references. There is hardly any post where anyone of us has supported Aryan Invasion Theory. I have quoted large number of references against AIT in my posts and also about the spread of Indian culture to countries like Egypt. It angers when someone starts calling it Bebuniyad Bakwaas.

2. People join and leave site as per their wish and no one really forces anyone out. I don't think Dr Birbal Singh has left Jatland. Might be that he is travelling or busy elsewhere.

3. This thread was started almost squarly about our views on Jat history where we have written about Dahiyas' Israeli copnnections and Tomars. A member called it all Bakwaas and you extending support to his views. How can one take this as a general comment and not the targetted one? Best would have been to counteract the concerned posts if someone felt it to be crap or otherwise.

4. Putting my views should not have been taken as muscle flexing. Why one has to talk of age while debating issues.

Individual experiences can not be generalised as experiences are a matter of perception. Some Jats being sweepers in Sweden does not mean that they don't have royal linkage and their claims are wrong.

RK^2

 

[narenderkharb]

Dear mahalwal
what ever you wrote is absolute fact and I really support u for your candid views.Some one had to tell this right wing propagandist that JATS are not a part of hate other campaign.Some of them it seems has even used jat surnames.Their real aim is to make this JAT HISTORY SECTION in to a comic serial, so that any serious person if visit this site can say it is all rubbish. It was shocking to read what DRONACHARYA did to Eklavaya was right.Jats have always stood against unjustice.These persons talking hare and there want to bring us back to purana veda than again quote same purans to tell we are maleccha,degraded kshtriya shudra etc. This has gone to far in history and when new researches are showing that they(vedic) were no where except these purans, they started getting up early post three four lines equating ourselves to this god that king and some mahisasur finally go to work, but what is harmed is prestige of this site as a right place to discuss history and our belief in our history.I REQUEST these wolf in lion skin guys we are not againt any community ,let us discuss our history in a serious way. which can be accepted by others also. Some of our brothers have also fallen prey to their gameThose jats who believed in psuedopride have already left us 1000 years back

 

[parda]

After reading all your posts during last 9 days of your membership and the present one, I am inclined to believe that its you who have some serious complex. I am even doubtful if your identity is real. Let us go through some of your observations in this post;

1. How many really help out other jats?: Before putting this question to others, will you please tell us as to how many Jats or non jats you have helped in your life ? Will you please tell us in what way you are a better human being than the Jats whom you are ridiculing in most of your posts so far?

2. Generally they will be nicer to non-jats then to jats.: Your this observation applies more on you than any other Jat here. Think of yourself first before you give lectures to others.

I would be keen to know about your personal and social achievements and your contributions to Jats' welfare.

Rajendra

Sahab lagta hae sacchi batteein chub gayee aapko.
Should I also build castles in the sky? Should I also say jats are this mahaan and that almost all great civilizations of the world and their peoples are somehow associated with jats?
Just twist the names and voila that does makes them jats?
Mein bhi kayahli pulow banata hoon.
Let us entertain and fantasize.
It will be good time pass.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Getting OBC status is just a tool to progress, nothing more.

With declining land holdings, and declining educational, and economic opportunities, for the Jats this is a sensible thing, as its gives them the opportunity to go in for higher education, and job opportunities, which was not possible before.

This has only occurred, due to Jat unity and clout. It would not have happened otherwise.

Jats have borne the brunt of the Islamic invasions, and it is largely because of them that India has remained free and non Islamic. It is no accident the Islamic power could not succeed in and around the Greater Delhi area, as well as it did in the outer regions.

This is something to be proud of.

As a result of these continual battles, the Jat society did get weakened, and with the advent of British rule, it did suffer.

Its schools, its system of education, its judicial systems was wiped out. In areas like Rajastan, they were reduced to a pitiable state, as Zamindari was enshrined in Feudal hands.

In other words, the Jat society was destroyed, and Jats were reduced to little above the levels of serfs.

If that does not in it cause an inferiority complex I do not what will.

What is to the credit of our community, that they are bouncing back- in all fields, education, jobs, and businesses?

In Rajasthan they won back their rights, as they did in U.P and Haryana.

The other fallout of the destruction of our society was that our history was lost, and usurped by other groups as theirs.

As has been said elsewhere, a people without a history, are reduced to being less than human.

The tragedy is that the efforts of the Jats( largely saved most Hindu communities, yet it is these same communities which have not acknowledged that jat contribution , but indeed have sought to exploit Jat society- by denial of education and economic opportunities to them.

Thanks to efforts of some dedicated Jats, Thakur Desraj (1925) and others, serious efforts are being made to rediscover and reconstruct our history.
Doing this involves some free wheeling thinking, including looking at ideas like the Israeli – Dahiya Connection, or the noun ‘Tomar” being found in Portugal, as the name of a town, or ‘ Gill’ being found as a clan name in Ireland.

For a list of common clan names in India and Central Europe see:


http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/files/

Jat Clans I
Jat Clan names in various countries I 421 KB ravichaudhar...
Nov 24, 2002 Edit Delete Cut Jat Clans II
Jat Clan names in various countries II



All of this is part of the re-construction process.

All of it needs to be discussed, the chaff winnowed out, and the wheat retained.

We should not stop people from exploring their past, and coming up with “ wild ‘ theories.

Better they be wild, than have no theories at all.


Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ratananmol]

Dear Ravi:
I am aware of your painstaking efforts thru another talented right wingy on this site (Vinod Sangwan) and that is a real problem-talented people bound to create a false sense of history. Even if you establish connections what would be the final implication?

Let us think a little creatively about this approach. If there are common surnames then what next? If India was the ultimate power in ancient times it would have either invited an influx of people from outside (thru invasions or asylum)or sent huge peaceful delegations who chose to stay in those extreme places out of love of tonnes of ice lying outside their homes. It is unlikely that the second scenario happened because if you look at the history of world population you will find that only 300 yrs ago India was sparsely populated and had ample natural resources and prosperity came from multiple crop cycles which were possible in the tropical climate only. Europe and other places were into Dark ages at a time when modern cities flourished in India.No sane Indian would have chosen to live outside india out of free will. This leaves the second scenario more probable that we were asylum seekers or invaders. And this is what your research seem to imply. I am sure the remnants of our records can throw light on more interesting questions: like what was our response to the caste rigidities and caste struggles introduced by the Brahmin. Recently i saw the television series "Chanakya" which is a masterpiece and based on historical records.You may find it interesting that the people who drove out the Greeks were termed "Vrihat Yodhas" (i.e. outside warriors); these people were not employed in the regular armies and their primary occupation was cultivation.(I suspect these are Jats and Gujjars). Chanakya and Chandragupta Maurya relied on their crucial support to establish the first Indian empire. (Due credits to Dr.Chandraprakash Dwivedi for the excellent research.)
If you manage to see the series you will also find the speeches made by Chandragupta (for the idea of nationality and nationhood-series 4 of 8) and Chanakya (in favor or Secularism in politics-series 6 of 8) were pretty good in articulating these ideals in a logical manner.
I hope you start distinguishing between bad history and good history.
My best Wishes.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Anmol

My intention is to bring out the material, and create awareness around it.

It is not for me to judge where it will lead.

I do not accept Dvivedi’s version of nationalism, and Chanakya's role as it is laid out in Indian history books.

Does Dvivedi tell us who Chandra Gupta was?

Since Chanakya’s other name was Vishnugupta, it would not be illogical to claim that he was Chacha or Tau of Chandragupta.

The other question is was his name Gupta at all?

I tend to think the Gupt-Gupta was a corruption of Gutta/Jutta.

The second Guptas in their early seals call themselves “Gutta" not Gupta, and that bears out the earlier conclusion.


"Viraat Yodha"

Here too there is a problem.

The script writer for the TV serial called them "Outside warriors"-. OK outside to whom and from where?

What Alexander and Co ran into was the Jat Yaudeya confederacies in what is now modern Punjab and Haryana. The clan names, Paur, Kokhar, Mull, Malli, that he ran into were part of the yaudheys Janpads or republics and are still found in the Jats today>

Does Dr Dvidedi mention this?

If he does not why not?

It would be another matter if the Chanakya serial showed that the defenders of Hindustan were Jats.. but it does not.

I have not seen the series, but if you wish explore Dr Dvivedi's research , than these are some questions that need addressing.


One problem with people like Dvivedi is that they are tied into and bound to their biases. In their bias, Chanakya is shown to be of the priesthood Brahmin caste, and the positioning is that” Chandragupta could not have achieved what he did, without Brahmin/Priesthood guidance.”

To uncover the history, one first has to get rid of this overwhelming blanket, which smothers all.

Another Dvivedi, Girish Chandra Dvivedi (is he the father?), has a similar problem. In his book on the " The Jats- role in medieval Mughal India", trundles right along writing a History of the Jats, but telling us ( with authority) that Sindh at the time of the Arab Invasion( circa 7th century CE) was ruled by a Brahmin Dynasty,.

What would that have to with Jat history, is a question that some of us ask?


Besides Dvivedi is wrong!

When the sources are examined it turns out all that was meant was the ruler Dahir followed Brahminism and not Buddhism.

Dahir was a jat, as were the rulers before him, they were of the Maur dynasty.

The Sarv Khap traditions records show that the Sarv Khap send aid to Sindh at that time to fight the Arabs

So one has some skeptical thoughts right there at the start.

Hence it is important to allow people to tear apart existing mindsets, and biases, and go beyond to the original sources, and re interpret the facts from a Jat perspective.

If we are not willing to do, we are forced to accept the perspective of Habib( Islamic), or Dvivedi( orthodox hindu) or a western Colonial author.

And I ask why should we be forced to accept one of those three versions???



Ravi Chaudhary

 

[narenderkharb]

Imagination is an essential process of reconstruction of histioy as Ravi ji pointed,It has to be employed it is crystal clear but problem starts when some person use it without any reasoning or base with an ulterior motive to discredit the reputation of this site.They should specify what is the basis of their assumptions.,or a thread can be started for them under Imaginations about jats from where grains can be picked.

 

[rkumar]

Imagination is an essential process of reconstruction of histioy as Ravi ji pointed,It has to be employed it is crystal clear but problem starts when some person use it without any reasoning or base with an ulterior motive to discredit the reputation of this site.They should specify what is the basis of their assumptions.,or a thread can be started for them under Imaginations about jats from where grains can be picked.

You will do a great service to the site and the persons if you mention the names of threads/ persons who have been posting with the so called ulterior motive to discredit the reputation of this site.

RK^2

 

[rkumar]

Sahab lagta hae sacchi batteein chub gayee aapko.
Should I also build castles in the sky? Should I also say jats are this mahaan and that almost all great civilizations of the world and their peoples are somehow associated with jats?
Just twist the names and voila that does makes them jats?
Mein bhi kayahli pulow banata hoon.
Let us entertain and fantasize.
It will be good time pass.

Post something concrete gentleman first on the site before I take your views seriously any further. Give us your version of Jat history so that we can judge your depth of Jat history.

RK^2

 

[cooljat]

I wonder why u ppl r paying attnetion to this crap!
Mr Prada is not a jat by any mean, he doesn't have Jat's blood.
He's a fake identity n he's jumped here to disturb Jatland commmunity,
plz! don't fall pray to thsi sucker! to be hell with him!
just ignore this a$$#@le, he just splits crap!

he's dead!!!

rock on
Jit

 

[prashantacmet]

you are absolutely right Jitendra Bhai. The persons like parda who are criticizing the JAT in every way , Those can not be JAAT , either they are HYRID(SANKAR) or they are trying to get the intention of all the members.
I believe that any JAT can not use such type of absurd language for his community. Some of them are addressing JATS as SUDRA. I want to ask to those people if JATS are SUDRA who is the KSHYATRIYA?. If such person are not having any knowledge of JAT history & they believe only on western historian or BRAHMIN system. What are they doing here? They must leave this site............................as soon as possible.
We don't need any clarification from such type of person.

JAI BHAGWAN JAT BALWAN

 

[parda]

Looks like mandbuddi people who cannot back up their comments have come to their natural state - gaalis and stupid damakis - people of the gutter. They know who they are.

 

[sheelchaudhary]

hey pradeep
mind ur tongue n mind!
if aint a JAt enough, why ur here n what do u wanna show
chorre, tu hamari unity or intigrity ko na todd sakta, eib baag ja yahan se nahin to mara jawega!
A jat is a jat is a jat n we all r proud to be one if ur not disappear or u'll be kicked out
rock on
Jit

mehta saab ram ram ,aap mr huda ko 'mind ur tongue ' ka paath padha rhe hain aur apni jubaan pe control nahi ---wah bhai wah---ram ram---jat zindabad

 

[cooljat]

bhai Shail,
ram ram
welcome to Jatland!
yaar, u know yeh laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi maante, so gandgi saaf karte karte ganda bhi hona padta hai kabi kabi, I think u got it.
anyways, njoy urself!

rock on
Jit

mehta saab ram ram ,aap mr huda ko 'mind ur tongue ' ka paath padha rhe hain aur apni jubaan pe control nahi ---wah bhai wah---ram ram---jat zindabad

 

[prashantacmet]

Looks like mandbuddi people who cannot back up their comments have come to their natural state - gaalis and stupid damakis - people of the gutter. They know who they are.

" In Kaum ke gaddaroien ne, shaan hamari khoyi hai
inko theek karne ke liye ek LATHI hamne payi hai"

JAAT BALWAN

 

[rkumar]

Looks like mandbuddi people who cannot back up their comments have come to their natural state - gaalis and stupid damakis - people of the gutter. They know who they are.

Without getting in arguments and counter arguments, why don't you post your own version of Jat history if you think we are writing all bakwaas and most of us are mandbudhi ? I am really keen to see how much knowledgable and well read you are on the subject. Let us have a sample of your wisdom on a subject or issue of your choice.

RK^2

 

[hamendra]

Looks like mandbuddi people who cannot back up their comments have come to their natural state - gaalis and stupid damakis - people of the gutter. They know who they are.

Pradeep Hooda Jee,

Please don't cross the limit and don't make any generic comment.

Thode likhe ko adhik samajna.

Thanks