Community Spirit!!!

[samranwa]

Dear all,

This thread which I am starting here.... Could as well be posted in the about jatland forum, but would have hardly got a reply! A discussion could have hardly initiated! Humor forum would have been the best place to get it read at least, but there is a warning to post in the current forum, hence general talk!

When I log on to Jatland, I am taken to the home page, which says

"The site is dedicated to providing Jats around the world a place to interact and expand the community spirit. Jatland is THE site for Jats!"

The Community Spirit is what I am about to bring to fore for discussion, whilst some of us are in Haryana, Rajsthan, Uttar Pradesh, and some still in Madhya pradesh. Does it make sense for us to limit ourselves to the use of one slang of the same language? Does it spread community spirit?

With no offences granted to any one, or any region, this has come up as a reaction of my exploration of this "home away from home" I have read almost 40% of the threads in the last 6 months, and have found atleast 70% of them directed against people who either do not belong to Haryana, or have problem understanding the Haryanvi accent! People don't even feel shy or even a bit of contained while talking of it in the chat room, and throwing volley of abuses on one who does not belong to Haryana!!

Community Spirit or Haryanvi spirit? What are we up to? Any one who says I have a problem with haryanvi is shown a path to the haryanvi dictionary! Anyone who sees dark sarcasm, is said this is the way it has been in haryana all through! Anyone who raises a sensible issue comes under the scruitny of sme maniacs, who start taunting in the local dialect to make a person flee!! And never return to the discussion!!

Why are we not a bit more tolerant? Why don't people from Haryana understand this basic fact that language is what has divided North India from South India, and that the country has not yet been able to make it possible for people from either region to end prejudice against each other! Are we planning to give this platform to the generations to come? Are we gonna say them that see though we are Jats, and that we are a chosen few by the God, yet WE ARE DIFFERENT and we should be so!!!

The community spirit is the spirit of integrity, the spirit of courage, the spirit of oneness, the spirit of leadership, but ALAS!! Some people here ( I am not going to name who? ) have made it their living room, and anyone who tries to discover the fact is taken hard! To maintain the HARYANA supremacy!!

The forefathers of this site, I just hope they read it and get sensible inferences!

I have seen people from all other states but haryana speak haryanvi for the convinence of them! So that it becomes more jovial for all of us to converse, at the opposite, haryana jats are adamant not to step down from their DARK SARCASM which they say Humor, and their HARD LANGUAGE which they mis take for JAT LANGUAGE!!

Is this language barrier which we are gonna produce as COMMUNITY SPIRIT??

Regards,

Sam.

 

[dndeswal]

.
Please do not get disheartened, Samiksha. You are right that there may be certain guys who “throw volley of abuses on one who does not belong to Haryana”. But those are just exceptions and may better be ignored. I have not only updated Haryanavi dictionary and given it a bilingual shape for the facility of readers, but have also written several threads and posts in English as well as in pure, modern Hindi in its Devnagri form. Several others from Harayana are also contributing nice material to the site. The purpose of the site is to unite the community, not to divide it on regional or dialect-related factors. I hope language will not be treated a barrier but a unity proposition.

Nevertheless, in case any guy from Haryana may have taunted or hurt you by harsh tongue, I apologise on behalf of all Haryanavis. Politeness is something which some of us forget while using this important platform. Please keep your presence on this community portal.
.

 

[uditnhe]

rightly said..

Hey,

I totally agree with this thread, this kind of attitude is exactly why I stopped writing or putting up threads.

Being a jat or haryanavi doesnt mean that you be rude to people. It only discourages meaningful discussions.

Udit

 

[ravinderdahiya]

You are right Samiksha, We should look at the greater good(community spirit) and Regional spirit should be secondary here.
There might be a few guys who behave in the same manner as told by you but we will have to understand that one might not be doing so intentionally, I mean lack of aptitude might be one of the reasons. So, as DND sir has advised , we should also be a bit forgiving in such matters.
& In my view, this portal is serving to the cause of community spirit : As I see, a few of my good friends at this portal are actually from UP and Rajasthan and I am sure that any one of us has not felt less brotherly because of being related to different states.
But I feel that if two Haryanvis talk in haryanvi or two Rajasthanis talk their dialect then nobody should have objections, The problem only comes when I talk to a person from Rajasthan in my dialect and expect him to communicate on my terms only.

 

[sidchhikara]

I know haryanvi but it is hard to read a long haryanvi post written in English as compared to Hindi characters.
I agree some ppl are rude - it sucks

 

[parveendahiya]

yes we r jats

first of all i wd say that i m not so old to this site, so cant say wt has been discussed earlier in these types of threads. but frankly speaking the attitude of some jatlanders r so poor towards their community that some times i feel ashamed. they just dont use their brain and experience but start blaming this site and this community. without going on the merits of the contents of this site, i m taking it in general sense, i dont blame or condem any one and supposing ur's every alligation to b correct, i just ask u a simple question why now a days joint family pratha has been abolished. u r taking abt hundreds of members of this site togeather but my dear some time it becomes difficult to keep ur own family of four members togeather. i dont understand if any perticular person on this site makes any comments why u take it as this statement is from our community spokes person. if any saying continues for long it likely takes some shape. i think merely by saying jats r this and that we have been kept in a close container. so it is our duty to first of all stop all this mischief. now sam says that when we log on to jatland , it appears on screen that this site is only for jats. wts harm in saying so. we r proud to b jat and we should say so loudly. now sam says that haryanavi's r making monoply regarding there language. its not so. let me tell u that in haryana it self the tone and pronouncing funda slightly changes after every 15-20 kms. and if some one has prob. or wnts to learn the fluency then he should b told abt the haryanavi dictionary. it doesnt mean at all that two jats r talking in eng. and not in there mother toung. kindly look at punjabies. wt to say abt chattering, they made their bhungra and their music popular around the world. it will certainly not satisy our purpose if we adopt any other language for chating or adopt any other culture(forgetting ours) just to show our generosity.
so pls stop blaming our people and our community rather give support to preserve our rich heritage. as far as the difference of language is concern i would like to say that the difference is of degree not of kind. it is not so that it cant b understood. rather enjoy each others language instead of opting some others language. plz try to do it and feel the difference.

 

[shailendra]

Dear all,

When I log on to Jatland, I am taken to the home page, which says
"The site is dedicated to providing Jats around the world a place to interact and expand the community spirit. Jatland is THE site for Jats!"

Does it make sense for us to limit ourselves to the use of one slang of the same language? Does it spread community spirit?

Community Spirit or Haryanvi spirit? What are we up to? Any one who says I have a problem with haryanvi is shown a path to the haryanvi dictionary! Anyone who sees dark sarcasm, is said this is the way it has been in haryana all through! Anyone who raises a sensible issue comes under the scruitny of sme maniacs, who start taunting in the local dialect to make a person flee!! And never return to the discussion!!

Why are we not a bit more tolerant? Why don't people from Haryana understand this basic fact that language is what has divided North India from South India, and that the country has not yet been able to make it possible for people from either region to end prejudice against each other! Are we planning to give this platform to the generations to come? Are we gonna say them that see though we are Jats, and that we are a chosen few by the God, yet WE ARE DIFFERENT and we should be so!!!

The community spirit is the spirit of integrity, the spirit of courage, the spirit of oneness, the spirit of leadership, but ALAS!! Some people here ( I am not going to name who? ) have made it their living room, and anyone who tries to discover the fact is taken hard! To maintain the HARYANA supremacy!!

The forefathers of this site, I just hope they read it and get sensible inferences!

I have seen people from all other states but haryana speak haryanvi for the convinence of them! So that it becomes more jovial for all of us to converse, at the opposite, haryana jats are adamant not to step down from their DARK SARCASM which they say Humor, and their HARD LANGUAGE which they mis take for JAT LANGUAGE!!

Is this language barrier which we are gonna produce as COMMUNITY SPIRIT??

Regards,

Sam.

Re Choori, kyalein rolaa paa re sae???
...Just kidding there, but seriously- I am still trying to understand the point you are trying to make... Well, IS IT that-

1. You are proposing to change the text on the main page?
(If yes, then please message the admnistrators directly with your proposal, and hopefully they listen into your pros and cons)

2. You find 'uncouth', 'rude' and 'disrespectful' people interact with you at various forums etc. when you are surfing this site?
(If yes; do what we all do- ignore and move on...a rude person is just what he/she is- rude, and needs to be given the silent/ignore treatment... I would definitely be a little careful if I try and 'generalize' them into 'Haryanvis')

3. You have a downright, plain simple problem with Haryanvis? [and I am bolding/underlining certain texts from above to support this possible scenario.]
(In that case-Sorry; I doubt anyone can help you there when you start treating every person (who speaks Haryanvi/Jatu or is from Haryana) across the board with the same low-handedness... I would simply state that You have issues!)...

...ok so this Haryanvis two cents? They are---
I literally interact on this site at least once most weeks, and have yet to see a discussion that has been waylaid by people going off on a tangent in Jatu, and so for me still it is a mystery what you are talking about....

In the end my advise to you is that try and not fall into the same trap you are accusing others of: GENERALIZING and discounting away a sect without rhyme or reason!

Now look, the fact that you were able to post this thread (and it did not get blocked or something equally ridiculous) and some members even generously and kindly responded to your concerns (whatever they are) to help ease the pain; proves the point well enough that what you think you may be feeling is probably just a bit of stretch of the young imagination, as no one is really restricting your freedom of expression here just because you would rather write/converse in English........

So I welcome you Samiksha, to please continue to share and add your comments to any and all threads here on this site without getting bogged down or prejudiced like this against something in particular...we are all Jats here, (and Indians first in any case)...that is what is good about our country, sin't it; the fact that you can go anywhere the length and breadth of India, and still take delight in learning a few words (be it gujju, mallu or bengauli) of the local dialect and then joyously conversing using it with it with the locals!...

Lastly, but not the least; learn a bit...just a bit only of some Jatu words or sentences here and there, lets say maybe from one of your Jatu friends [you do have some of those kinds, right?] ...learn some of it, just for grins if nothing else (of course, only once you have managed to pull away the wall of prejudice first; ....and umm, also once you have pulled away from what I can percieve unmistakenly there as a bit of jealousy against the general popularity and identification of this wonderful language with Jats ) and you shall actually find that the grand ol' Jatu language is actually not that bad (or rude) as you think it is!

 

[ritu]

it seems u r trying to convey some indirect message to some people in the name of community.like ur thread love....why you always give the wrong title to ur threads.
samiksha ,if iam a jat and from haryana i will speak haryanvi only.i do not know what kind of community spirit u r talking about.pro rajasthani aut anti-haryanvi.
apne personal experiences se general comment mat do .

 

[parveendahiya]

it seems u r trying to convey some indirect message to some people in the name of community.like ur thread love....why you always give the wrong title to ur threads.
samiksha ,if iam a jat and from haryana i will speak haryanvi only.i do not know what kind of community spirit u r talking about.pro rajasthani aut anti-haryanvi.
apne personal experiences se general comment mat do .

really ritu, is ur nose so sensetive.
its great, but plz which thread r u talking abt. idont know abt old threads

 

[jaggs83]

Jats from Haryana, Marwaris from Rajasthan...

When people ask me, Where are you from?
I say, I am from Rajasthan.
The response is. Ohhh.. so you are a Marwari?
And, I am like, Nooooo.. I am a Jat.
and, then the response is: Ohhh. so you are from Haryana?
And, I say. No, I am a Jat from Rajasthan.
And, the conversation continues on....
I think, that explains a lot about Jats, Rajasthan, Haryana, People's mindsets(who are not Jats).
But, the point is: There is no point.
Use brains when creating, reading and responding to posts. And, If you still have a lot of time, use it for something meaningful. If you cannot find anything meaningful, I have some ideas, and am in need of some intellectual minds to help shape the ideas into reality and execute them successfully.

This post has no resemblance to anything mentioned in the above thread, people or persons in this forum.

 

[vpannu]

I agree to the contents of your thread except those which I have quoted below.
A bitter shameful truth: Regionalism prevails in our country. Even within Haryana Jats are Bagris and Deswalis. We see a bit of change in language after every 50kms.

People don't even feel .....in the chat room, and throwing volley of abuses on one who does not belong to Haryana!!

Samiksha, When did that happen? Did you tell any of the Mods/Admins? There had been incidents of abusing (but nothing like what you are talking about) and the rotten apples were banned from the logging in.

Any one who says I have a problem with haryanvi is shown a path to the haryanvi dictionary!

You dont have to speak/write haryanvi to be on this site. You are your boss, so choose your own way of interacting.

Why don't people from Haryana understand ....d that we are a chosen few by the God, yet WE ARE DIFFERENT and we should be so!!!

Why have you generalised all of Haryanavis? Are they all same? You might have had some issues with some members but wouldnt it be better to enjoy the website rather than whinging.

To maintain the HARYANA supremacy!!

That is another offensive part. You are talking like as you have been bullied by someone.

I have seen people from all other states but haryana speak haryanvi for the convinence of them! So that it becomes more jovial for all of us to converse, at the opposite, haryana jats are adamant not to step down from their DARK SARCASM which they say Humor, and their HARD LANGUAGE which they mis take for JAT LANGUAGE!!

Haryanvi is harsh language no doubt about it and more is the humour. So does that mean Haryanvi people should stop conversating in Haryanvi and switch over to Punjabi/Urdu because its more decent?

 

[yashbeniwal]

Dear all,

The community spirit is the spirit of integrity, the spirit of courage, the spirit of oneness, the spirit of leadership, but ALAS!! Some people here ( I am not going to name who? ) have made it their living room, and anyone who tries to discover the fact is taken hard! To maintain the HARYANA supremacy!!

The forefathers of this site, I just hope they read it and get sensible inferences!

Regards,

Sam.

At First I don't want to subscribe in this thread because I don't wanna to be a part of controversy. But now the heights n limits, So Dear Sam , what u want? U hav gd knowledge abt haryana's jats. We never underestimate any other state jats. Jats r jats v love this community,, it doesn't make any sense that which part or state he belong. haryana's jats r always helpful to others.
Now, U trying to divide this jatland in parts. Don't u think so.

Acc to ur words:

"I have seen people from all other states but haryana speak haryanvi for the convinence of them! So that it becomes more jovial for all of us to converse, at the opposite, haryana jats are adamant not to step down from their DARK SARCASM which they say Humor, and their HARD LANGUAGE which they mis take for JAT LANGUAGE!!"

fyi...
each n every jat hav rights to speak in his accents n lang.
Tumhe kisne mana kiya li tum rajasthani mat bolo,,,,, baigar baat ek Upannayaas likh dala,,,,
Jab hum rajasthani aur up waali language samajh lete hai toh ,, why r u not trying yaar to understand haryanvi,,,,, there is absolutely no prob in it.

If u don't understand haryanvi Humour ,, thats not our fault try to understand it,,, there is a dic for ur help,,,
and my dear Jat language is always hard. woh pyar tai bhi baat karenge toh lagege ki lath maarya hai,,,, kudrat ne unhe ais ahi banaya hai,, lagtaa hai tum punjaabiyoon mein pali ho aur bas assi tussi achaa lagtaa hai tumhe,,,lolz,,

 

[yatinder19]

I think everyone is free to interact in his/her language.If some one feels comfortable in Haryanvi than Hindi,he should talk in Haryanvi...Its our rich heritage and we should preserve it like others(Tamil,Telgu,Punjabis etc etc) have done...
Jitender Hooda bhaai ne ek thread start kiya thaa ki some people feel ashamed of our language...Apni roots se bhi kya Bhagnaa...They will always keep telling its harsh..we cant understand...
But if some one is abusing simply because u r not fron Haryana,then its not correct and it should be strictly condemned and its not correct at all.

 

[rathee.sandeep]

muje nahi lagta ki jatland par haryanavis aur non haryanvis ka koi jhagdaa hai
muje khudd haryane ka hote hue haryanvi nahi aati thi
yahan aa kar maine haryanvi seekhi
muje kissi ne kabhhi bhi non haryanvi bolne par tang nahi kiya
gaali dene ki baat hi door hai
main punjab me padtaa tha to muje punjaabi seekhne ko milli
jatland se haryanvi seekhne ko milli
aur aajkal main marathi seekh rha hu
to isme koi problem nahi hai agar koi haryanavi bolta hai

 

[shweta123]

Jaha char bartan honge.......aawaz to hogi hi!! thats the way out here!Many people, many background, many attitudes.......... there will be some chaos too, its simply inevitable!! But in my opinion this is nothing unusual! If some one is from Haryana then it is quiet natural that he or she will boast of his or her area or culture etc, and I dont find anything wrong in this, though i hail from Ultimate Place (UP) ........ !! This is just meaningless until & unless this love for the place of origin leads to unappealing situations!! I will just say that it will be nice if we do say good about our places but refrain ourselves from undue, silly & bitter fights!! Nothing is wrong till we know how to behave & check our actions...........Abhi ke liye itna hi baaki posts ke liye dekhte rahiye.......... JATLAND

 

[narwal]

i totally agree wid ritu's thoughts...................
this hypocrite girl just want to be a part of controversy.even she love to be ..................
she always tryin to get sympathy for nothing happened to her.............
i really dont understand why doesnt she start a healthy discussion to become famous instead of such influenced threads.............
sam has any rajasthani or jat frm u.p\m.p ever raised this issue before ..?> answer is no .bcoz no bdy have problem wid haryanvi jats and wid their accent ........so its only u who alwayz got the big issue wid above said community..........and wid its language..........look no one gonna change their language or mother tounge.so its better not to raise such stupid matter again.........it'll be appreciated....
and one thing more dear sam..........wat if i say this to rajasthan and its accent.........i wont.......but think abt it for a moment.coz i dont wanna upset all other brother\sister frm rajasthan just bcoz of u.
wo haryanvi main nu keh de karra hai ki .........
ek sadda hua seb(apple)saare sebba ne sadda de hai.so dont try to be a one..........
regards
no offence
baki burra mannegi to main ke help kar saku hu aapki.lolz

it seems u r trying to convey some indirect message to some people in the name of community.like ur thread love....why you always give the wrong title to ur threads.
samiksha ,if iam a jat and from haryana i will speak haryanvi only.i do not know what kind of community spirit u r talking about.pro rajasthani aut anti-haryanvi.
apne personal experiences se general comment mat do .

 

[rameshlakra]

Amit bhai,

It is just a debate, that she has started and many feel that it is true (plz refer to opinion above). So there is no reason for u to start a personal attack, and, that too in a manner not accepted at a public thread.

i think we need to respect people and there is a way to debate. If u dont agree, be logical and point it out. If two "bengali" friends of ur's keep talking in "bengali" when u r around, u will feel bad,and probably point it out to them. Simallarly i have witnessed people making fun for not knowing "haryanvi". Its a lovely language and i feel so happy talking in it, but at the same time i have to be sensitive and use my judgement to be discreet in a manner that others dont feel bad.
To sum it up, i am in favour of "members sensitising themselves and keep sentiments of all in mind when interacting", but at the same time i must say that there are very few people who are bringing bad name to haryana.

regards

 

[trueblueindian]

Strange Observations

like many people pointed out ... really unreasonable querries / observations ..

all i would like to say is....

1. I guess maximum No. of people on this site are from Haryana belt ... moreso the "ONLINE STATUS " and "ACTIVE STATUS "from this region is also higher .. . so why a raised eyebrow on this... cant this simple fact be understood

2. we all come here to trace our roots ... or to get in touch wid our people / community .. so what's the big surprise all about... FOR this purpose one would definately react in the way he / she is used to in past .. otherwise the whole purpose gets defeated.

3. has she saved any chat log ever.., which can proove her claims .. and yes even if there is a bad instance .. does that prooves that the whole community is alike ... well then the same applies to your SO CALLED AND SELF CREATED RAJASTHAN REGION .. as if they are the most corteous people lining on globe.....

and in totto i would agree to what especially ritu behenji, shalinder, pannu, yash and many other worthy members pointed out..

my request ---- ateast we should not discuss about regional divide between JATS .. for me all are and will remain "same and one" and i hope each and every member of this community thinks the same way.

 

[narwal]

lakra saab
ek baat bataiyee ki kya kabhi kissi aur ne ,,,,,,,specially frm haryanvi community ,,,,,,,,,ye bina matlab ka issue khadda kiyya hai kya?????????
yaar aap logg baat samjte to ho nahi aur apni apni keemti salah de daalte ho bina baat ke...............
bhai mera matlab ye hai ki kya humko koi problem nahi hui kabhi rajasthani member ya rajasthani accent se??????? but humnne kabhi sikayyat nahi ki aisee...........kyonki muje malumm hai ki yaha par saab jat ek barrabar hai..........
ab muje ye batta do ki kissi personal baat ko ek taraf rakh do aur thandde dimag se socho ki agar yahi problem above said rajasthani jat female member ko ho gyii to kaunn sa pahadd tutt gya...........
ismain community ko ghasittne ki baat kaha se aa gyi.........
and moreover everyone got their own opinion and their own gr8 thinking,...........so think abt it .and i didnt stop any one to express his\her views publically ..........but there sud be any worthy reason behind it not just like u can say whatever u want....coz no one is ready to tolerate this type of behaviour here...........
put urself in others shoes and then think........
bakki aap loggo ko jyadda patta hogga acche burre ka...........
regards

Amit bhai,

It is just a debate, that she has started and many feel that it is true (plz refer to opinion above). So there is no reason for u to start a personal attack, and, that too in a manner not accepted at a public thread.

i think we need to respect people and there is a way to debate. If u dont agree, be logical and point it out. If two "bengali" friends of ur's keep talking in "bengali" when u r around, u will feel bad,and probably point it out to them. Simallarly i have witnessed people making fun for not knowing "haryanvi". Its a lovely language and i feel so happy talking in it, but at the same time i have to be sensitive and use my judgement to be discreet in a manner that others dont feel bad.
To sum it up, i am in favour of "members sensitising themselves and keep sentiments of all in mind when interacting", but at the same time i must say that there are very few people who are bringing bad name to haryana.

regards

 

[amitchhikara]

Re Choori, kyalein rolaa paa re sae???
...Just kidding there, but seriously- I am still trying to understand the point you are trying to make... Well, IS IT that-

1. You are proposing to change the text on the main page?
(If yes, then please message the admnistrators directly with your proposal, and hopefully they listen into your pros and cons)

2. You find 'uncouth', 'rude' and 'disrespectful' people interact with you at various forums etc. when you are surfing this site?
(If yes; do what we all do- ignore and move on...a rude person is just what he/she is- rude, and needs to be given the silent/ignore treatment... I would definitely be a little careful if I try and 'generalize' them into 'Haryanvis')

3. You have a downright, plain simple problem with Haryanvis? [and I am bolding/underlining certain texts from above to support this possible scenario.]
(In that case-Sorry; I doubt anyone can help you there when you start treating every person (who speaks Haryanvi/Jatu or is from Haryana) across the board with the same low-handedness... I would simply state that You have issues!)...

...ok so this Haryanvis two cents? They are---
I literally interact on this site at least once most weeks, and have yet to see a discussion that has been waylaid by people going off on a tangent in Jatu, and so for me still it is a mystery what you are talking about....

In the end my advise to you is that try and not fall into the same trap you are accusing others of: GENERALIZING and discounting away a sect without rhyme or reason!

Now look, the fact that you were able to post this thread (and it did not get blocked or something equally ridiculous) and some members even generously and kindly responded to your concerns (whatever they are) to help ease the pain; proves the point well enough that what you think you may be feeling is probably just a bit of stretch of the young imagination, as no one is really restricting your freedom of expression here just because you would rather write/converse in English........

So I welcome you Samiksha, to please continue to share and add your comments to any and all threads here on this site without getting bogged down or prejudiced like this against something in particular...we are all Jats here, (and Indians first in any case)...that is what is good about our country, sin't it; the fact that you can go anywhere the length and breadth of India, and still take delight in learning a few words (be it gujju, mallu or bengauli) of the local dialect and then joyously conversing using it with it with the locals!...

Lastly, but not the least; learn a bit...just a bit only of some Jatu words or sentences here and there, lets say maybe from one of your Jatu friends [you do have some of those kinds, right?] ...learn some of it, just for grins if nothing else (of course, only once you have managed to pull away the wall of prejudice first; ....and umm, also once you have pulled away from what I can percieve unmistakenly there as a bit of jealousy against the general popularity and identification of this wonderful language with Jats ) and you shall actually find that the grand ol' Jatu language is actually not that bad (or rude) as you think it is!

Actually quiet good analysis there Shal. Sam it might be useful if you try and take some comments as light hearted humor rather than stick to each and every word and try and find an issue. Not every discussion can be enlightening and educative. Some discussions are meant to be just plain fun. I have posted here and have never come across someone trying to run me out of here by their offensive Haryanvi remarks. Infact i remember a thread recently in which a girl was trying to learn some Haryanvi and a lot of members tried to direct her in the right direction. There are always going to be some good and bad people on every forum out there. I feel by and large most members here are reasonable and very helpful.