Dara Singh - Is He a Jat?

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KAUR:

I can confirm that the 'Kaur' suffix is used by Jat ladies who are Hindu. That indicates that the suffix is not indicative of faith.

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Satbir,

I am going to ask you to be careful,in your postings .

Your comments on the Sikh Jats,could be construed as an attack on the Sikh Jats and accusatory of them of being anti Hindu. You could, inadvertently of course, give a visitor the impression, that this site is anti - Sikh and the Guru's teachings.

We are quite clear here, that this is not the case

I have noted, as Rajendra has, that your posts can be construed to be indicative of an impression that Sikhs hate Hindus or some such thing.

Needless to say, such thoughts are incorrect, needlessly inflamatory and rumor mongering, and definitely not the opinion of members here.

Creating divides between Sikhs and Hindus is not, I suggest, a terribly great or wonderful idea

A faith is a matter of personal spiritual belief. A Jat is someone who thinks he/she is a Jat.

This was a digression. I leave you to answer Rajendra's focused question, which can provide the base platform for this current discussion

Are you any relation to J S Grewal the historian ?


Ravi Chaudhary
 
Satbir Ji,
Can u please do some reading before u write.
Why are u trying to divide the jat community just on the basis of faith.
For your kind information, there are 144 villages in Abohar / Fazilka and 40 villages in Patiala district of hindu jats.
People like u have already harmed the sikh community, can u please change now your glasses.
regards


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Satbir Grewal (Sep 28, 2004 05:53 a.m.):
Mr Sehrawat,

From what I can make out, you're also one of those Alices in Wonderland. Where on earth did you come to know that Parkash Kaur does not write "Kaur" and Bobby and Sunny do not suffix Singh to their names. I hope it's not the "filmi kalian" type of reliable information. Going by your logic, even Navjot Sidhu is a Hindu Jat because he doesn't append 'Singh'. Give me a break, for heaven's sake. For your info, when Dharmendra filed his nomination from Bikaner, he filled his wife's name as Parkash Kaur. His son's names are Vijay Singh Deol and Ajay Singh Deol.

Let me tell you something very interesting. My mother's goth is Deol and I happen to be related to Dharmendra so for God's sake don't give me those "filmi kalian" gossips. If you're such a film buff, you might've noticed that the Deol home production "Dillagi" started with recitations from the Sikh scriptures with the Khalsa flag fluttering and not bells chiming in a Mandir. So, relax. Gossip time is over. I didn't want to sound ostentatious by claiming any relation with Dharmendra but posts such as yours compelled me to reveal whatever distant relation I have with Dharam. By the way, his full name is Dharam Singh Deol. Besides this, if you want to meet a Hindu Jat in the Jat Sikh heartland of Punjab, you'll need a pair of very powerful lenses, a torch, a binocular and loads of hope. Jat villages of the Punjab had converted enmasse to Sikhism.

Regarding Dara Singh, you seem to be suffering from bouts of fantasia. Since he is fighting for reservations for the Jat community, he's a Hindu Jat. Wow. Do you know that Sikh Jats in the districts of Hanumangarh, Anupgarh and Ganganagar in Rajasthan have been granted OBC status by the Rajasthan govt alongwith Hindu Jats. Mr Sehrawat, nice try but life is not so simple that you can twist facts to suit your fervent beliefs.

Regards.
Click to expand...
 
Rajendra ji,

You might have noticed that nowhere have I mentioned that the Jat Sabha differentiated between Jats of various faiths. The point is when you say "Jat" or the Jat Sabha, the first thing that comes to mind is Hindu Jats. Therefore, I've cosistently been mentioning that preferably a Hindu Jat should head the Sabha. Sikh Jats are most welcome but does the Jat Sabha really care about the Sikh Jats or do the Sikh Jats, who are very economically and politically powerful, need the lobbying of the Jat Sabha. That's my point. Dara Singh and Dharmendra are most welcome to represent the Jat community. Nothing wrong with that and yes, there should be absolutely no name calling.

Regards.
 
Satbir Grewal (Sep 29, 2004 05:08 a.m.):
Rajendra ji,

You might have noticed that nowhere have I mentioned that the Jat Sabha differentiated between Jats of various faiths. The point is when you say "Jat" or the Jat Sabha, the first thing that comes to mind is Hindu Jats. Therefore, I've cosistently been mentioning that preferably a Hindu Jat should head the Sabha. Sikh Jats are most welcome but does the Jat Sabha really care about the Sikh Jats or do the Sikh Jats, who are very economically and politically powerful, need the lobbying of the Jat Sabha. That's my point. Dara Singh and Dharmendra are most welcome to represent the Jat community. Nothing wrong with that and yes, there should be absolutely no name calling.

Regards.
Click to expand...

Let us not get confused Satbir now..Just read your original two line post. Forget about everything else you have written or others have written. My counter question to you is that unless Jat Sabha constitution says that only Hindu Jats can be the members and other executive members of the Sabha, why can't Dara Singh be the president ? Let us just stick to the constitution of the Jat Sabha for the moment..We can talk of further interpretations later on..

Rajendra
 
Dear Satbir,

Yes, it is fact that I have used most of the facts from print or electronic media and by puting forth facts acquired through reading or listering is no twist. I take exception to your statement in the first and last para. By the way in his affidavit submitted during his last elections which is an official and public document, he has used the name I mentioned in my previous post. As regards Dara Singh, please read carefully, I said "he identifies with hindu jats" which does not mean he is a Hindu jat.

Secondly, if you are related to Dharmendar, a Sikh according to your own admission, why you are so upset a sikh being President of jat sabha. Or are you simply name dropping.

Ishwar Singh Lamba (Sep 28, 2004 06:50 p.m.):
Satbir Ji,
Can u please do some reading before u write.
Why are u trying to divide the jat community just on the basis of faith.
For your kind information, there are 144 villages in Abohar / Fazilka and 40 villages in Patiala district of hindu jats.
People like u have already harmed the sikh community, can u please change now your glasses.
regards


-------------------------------------------
Satbir Grewal (Sep 28, 2004 05:53 a.m.):
Mr Sehrawat,

From what I can make out, you're also one of those Alices in Wonderland. Where on earth did you come to know that Parkash Kaur does not write "Kaur" and Bobby and Sunny do not suffix Singh to their names. I hope it's not the "filmi kalian" type of reliable information. Going by your logic, even Navjot Sidhu is a Hindu Jat because he doesn't append 'Singh'. Give me a break, for heaven's sake. For your info, when Dharmendra filed his nomination from Bikaner, he filled his wife's name as Parkash Kaur. His son's names are Vijay Singh Deol and Ajay Singh Deol.

Let me tell you something very interesting. My mother's goth is Deol and I happen to be related to Dharmendra so for God's sake don't give me those "filmi kalian" gossips. If you're such a film buff, you might've noticed that the Deol home production "Dillagi" started with recitations from the Sikh scriptures with the Khalsa flag fluttering and not bells chiming in a Mandir. So, relax. Gossip time is over. I didn't want to sound ostentatious by claiming any relation with Dharmendra but posts such as yours compelled me to reveal whatever distant relation I have with Dharam. By the way, his full name is Dharam Singh Deol. Besides this, if you want to meet a Hindu Jat in the Jat Sikh heartland of Punjab, you'll need a pair of very powerful lenses, a torch, a binocular and loads of hope. Jat villages of the Punjab had converted enmasse to Sikhism.

Regarding Dara Singh, you seem to be suffering from bouts of fantasia. Since he is fighting for reservations for the Jat community, he's a Hindu Jat. Wow. Do you know that Sikh Jats in the districts of Hanumangarh, Anupgarh and Ganganagar in Rajasthan have been granted OBC status by the Rajasthan govt alongwith Hindu Jats. Mr Sehrawat, nice try but life is not so simple that you can twist facts to suit your fervent beliefs.

Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Hema malini ke saath shadee ke time Dharmender ne shayad naam bhi badla tha. Something Khan ... Khoon

aisa bhi media report main aaya tha.
 
Dear All,

I don't understand the fuss at all.

May be I am ignorant but can someone please tell me the contributions of JAT Mahasabha for the betterment of JATS. I really want to know because I have been in Mumbai since 1997 and was wanting to join this famous 'Sabha' but few JAT friends told me not to waste my time. I asked them why do they say so? One of them said "Ya Mahasabha bas naam ki hai. Karte dharte kucch se nahin ar jab bhi meeting ho hai, inka joot baaje se. Sharab pee ka ek doosre te ladain se. Na kuuch karte na doosryan ne karan detey". Therefore I ask, please tell me their contributions.

Why this fuss over different types/kinds of JATS? I think every one abuses the Brahmin and Bania in the villages. Whether he be a Hindu, Sikh or Muslim JAT. That's why JAT is a JAT.

Bhai, Hema Malini ke saath shaadi karne ke liye to main bhi Kafir ban jaata!!! Dharmendra became Dilawar Khan ar main ban jaata Jangi Khan. MALIK to main hoon hi!!!

(Manne pitvaoge PARO te. Jo usne bera paat gya te JAT Mahasabha ka sammelan ho jya ga).

Regards,

JS MALIK
 
Ha..Ha..Ha :-)

Col. sahab,
fer to Aakhree kaam bandh ja ga :-D :-D

Lt Col Jagmohan Malik (Retd) (Sep 29, 2004 07:52 a.m.):

(Manne pitvaoge PARO te. JO USNE BERA PAAT GAYA te JAT Mahasabha ka sammelan ho jya ga).

Regards,

JS MALIK
Click to expand...
 
Hi Jats,

My first mail to this forum, actually i was tempted to write this mail after seeing so many mails beeing exchanged on Dara singh and Dharmendra being Jats.

Does it really matter that they are Jats leave aside Hindu or a Sikh Jat?

OK I also want to know know about the muslim Jats .........as far as I know they are Jats who who converted to Islam during the Mughal period and if they converted then they no longer can be called Jats.

I am not sure can anyone please enlighten me.

Regards,
Pankaj Saroha

"Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength"
 
Hi All,

I am a Jat Sikh, and the Grewal Jats have earned the reputation of "Jattan De Baniey" or the “Banias of the Jat tribe”. In Satbir’s case, I fear the negative implications behind this reputation may be true.

Best Wishes,
 
Suuny Ji,
You can only say this as a joke (In the pinds), otherwise it is good if jats can capture lot of business
regards
------------------------------
Hi All,

I am a Jat Sikh, and the Grewal Jats have earned the reputation of "Jattan De Baniey" or the “Banias of the Jat tribe”. In Satbir’s case, I fear the negative implications behind this reputation may be true.

Best Wishes,[/quote]
 
Satbir Grewal (Sep 26, 2004 04:35 a.m.):
Dara Singh, the president of the Jat Sabha - is he a Jat or a Sikh. Why do we have a Sikh as the president. Couldn't we find someone else.
Click to expand...

arr bhaya dara singh jat ki hisaab su kuni jyada samjha mat.
 
Sunny Singh (Sep 30, 2004 04:48 p.m.):
Hi All,

I am a Jat Sikh, and the Grewal Jats have earned the reputation of "Jattan De Baniey" or the “Banias of the Jat tribe”. In Satbir’s case, I fear the negative implications behind this reputation may be true.

Best Wishes,
Click to expand...


Hi Sunny,

Kidha?

Why are Grewal Jats known as Jattan De Baniey?

Whats the story behind it?

Regards,
 
Hi Ramandeep,

I believe there is a particular jealousy between the Dhillons (and other Jats) and Grewal Jats in the Ludhiana district, where the Grewals own a tract of 75+ villages, clustering around Naurangwal, Gujarwal, etc. The Grewals had some sort of local authority in the district as late as 18th Century (pre-Sikh period) and had a status of Rajputs, assuming by the fact that they rarely practiced karewa and wore the sacred thread at weddings.

Grewal Jats have been known to be excellent soldiers, leaders, and businessmen. Although they have a cluster of 75+ villages, their landholdings were particularly small (for Malwa) and as a consequence they often engaged in military affairs and were not afraid to start businesses like the Khatris. Of the Jat Sikhs, they were initially one of the most educated clans. Perhaps this is where they have earned the title.

Best Wishes,
 
Hi Sunny,

Thanks for telling the story ...

Though, speaking of Ludhiana - I was always under the impression that it was the Badeshas who were very dominant there (both in terms of numbers and financially ...) I did not know that it were the Grewals.

Oh well ...

Chunga fir ...
 
I agree. Let's stick just to the FACTS.

Dharmender's real name is Dharm Singh Deol. He was born into a Sikh family. He is a Jat and definately a member of Arya Samaj and ex-Sikh now. He had to legally change his name to legally marry Hema Malini without divorcing Prakash Kaur.

Dara Singh the actor/wrestler's gotra is Randhawa. His brother was known in Bollywood in the early days as "Randhawa". That was his connection to get into movies. He was already famous as a wrestler. Yes he is a Jat. He was born a Sikh but not a practicing Sikh anymore. Maybe he is a member of Arya Samaj too. His son was married to a non-Sikh years ago.


Famous "Bhagat Singh Shaheed" was born into a Sandhu Jat family who were members of the Arya Samaj. He himself was an atheist and died as such for India.


Mr. Kalkhunde: in theory all Sikhs are to have the 5 symbols. In practice most Sikh Jats are clean shaven like Dharmender and not really all that religious. Sikh Jats form the majority of the Sikh population but are the most lax when it comes to following religion rigidly. Lately non-Jat Sikhs have gone on campaigns to slander and insult Jats on the internet and use religion to bash Jats and try to distort Jat history. They are also trying to pit Muslim Jat v.s. Hindu Jat v.s. Sikh Jat in the name of Sikh unity which never existed.


Mr. Grewal: Gurdwaras are open to all. I myself goto both gurdwara and mandhir. I have been to church too. Whether they are Sikh or Hindu, the more importantly they are Jat. Religion is a personal choice.


Ravi: I agree. It appears that some are posting on this site to give Sikh Jats a bad name and divide Jats on religious lines. I doubt that they really are Jats.



Here is another Jat politician of Sikh origin who may or may not be a Sikh now (it doesn't matter): comrade Harkrishan Singh Surjeet. His gotra is Bassi and he is Punjabi.


I read that on this site that the Bharatpur kingdom is the only Jat kingdom?


We should be allowed to add the following to that list and I will explain why right after I list them:


Maharaja Ranjit's rule 1800-1840 over most of Punjab. (Sandhu)

Patiala Kingdom (Sidhu)

Faridkot Kingdom (Brar)

Jind Kingdom (Sidhu)

Nabha Kingdom (Sidhu)


--------


All of these kings were excommunicated from the Sikh fold. Maharaja Ranjit Singh was excommunicated for marrying a Muslim and the other other 4 kingdoms were members of the Phulkian Sikh misl (confederecies) which ex excommunicated from the Sikh fold because its founder Patialia king Ala Singh at one time did not support other Sikh factions in a united front.

It was only after Jats joined Sikhism in large numbers that Sikhism changed from a pacificist movement into a fighting movement. Interestlingly enough 11 of the 12 Sikh Misls (confederacies) were either lead or founded by Jatts of well known gotras like Gill, Virk/Birk, Dhillon, Sidhu-Brar, Sandhu, etc. The Sikh misls were like mini-kingdoms they all controlled their own areas but not really proper kingdoms. One of the misls was known as Dhillon sardars also called Bhangi sardars because they smoked Bhang (marijuana) all the time. Dhillons ruled Lahore and Gujrat in present day Pakistan. It was from the Dhillons that Maharaja Ranjit Singh won control of Lahore from.

More on the Bhangis:

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/events/bhangi.html


Maharaja Ranjit SIngh's maternal grandfather was Raja Gajput of Jind (Sidhu) making him related to all these other Jat kings of Punjab that I mentioned.

More about Maharaja Ranjit singh Sandhu:
http://allaboutsikhs.com/warriors/buddha.htm

http://allaboutsikhs.com/ranjit


The Phulkian misl traces it's origins to Chaudhri Phul (Sidhu Jat) who in turn traces his origins to Bhatti king Jaisal of Jaisalmer. Sidhus were created out of Bhatti. In fact all Sidhu-Brars claim this same heritage. The Brar gotra was created out of the Sidhu gotra. That is why Brar king of Faridkot claimed descent also from Chaudhri Phul. The name of Patialia was derived from "bhatti" and the founder of the Phulkian misl and Patialia's first king: "Ala" Singh. Chaudhri Phul was also an ancestor of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.


The present chief minister of Punjab, Captain Amarinder Singh is the heir to the Patiala throne and a direct descendent of Chaudhri Phul.

More on the Sikh Misls:

http://www.sikhtemple.com/sikh_misls.htm


note that from this link only Jassa Singh Alhuwalia's group called "Alhuwalia" was non-jat lead and non-jat founded. The Ramgharia misl was founded by a Jat named Nand Singh and later lead by Jassa Singh Ramgharia a non-Jat and it took after his name. Both of these groups had Jats amongst their ranks as warriors.

With those exceptions every other group of Sikh misls were (10) were Jat lead and founded by Jats.
 
The surname found in Malwa Punjab of "Narangwal" are also Grewals.
 
Thank you Mr Birk for wonderful information. There is a place here near Liverpool, called Birkenhead..I wonder if this has anything to do Birk Jats????

Rajendra
 
called Birkenhead..I wonder if this has anything to do Birk Jats?
Click to expand...

I doubt it but who knows? I'm more inclined to say it has something to do with Germany.

Basically Virk/Virka/Birk are all the same thing. Some write Burke to anglicize the name a little more. 2 of the misls on that last link were lead by Virks. One by Karoara Singh Virk and the other by Nawab Kapur Singh Virk who was a shining example of the warrior spirit of Jats. I would say that even if I didn't share the same surname as him.


Virks are a large group which is divided on religious lines. I am told that there are Virks in Haryana who are both Hindu and Sikh. If there any Virks who are Haryanavi or Rajistani or UP Jat then I would be interested to know about them.

The Virks I know in Haryana are Sikh and are recent migrants from Punjab.

There are Sikh Virks in Malwa region of Punjab and smaller numbers in Doaba (jallandhar/hoshipur area) Punjab. The largest numbers of Virks are in Pakistan and they are Muslim. Last I heard it was over 100 villages in the Gujjrawala area alone.
 
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