Dara Singh - Is He a Jat?

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Hi Virk,

Gujranwala seems to be the ancestral seat of Virk, with over 132 villages there. But there is a lot more history to the Virk clan. Here’s a good idea of where your clan came from:

Prakash summarizes the view of Vrkas:

Though the correct import of the expression haumavarka is obscure and its equation with vrka is conjectural and implausible, it is well-nigh certain that the Vrkas were associated with the Sakas, as the epithet of the Kusana official Barkanpati [Varkanpati], referred to above, shows. As regards the name of these people, derived from the word for wolf vrka, it is significant to note that some tribes of Central Asia traced their ancestry to a wolf or she-wolf… Some such traditions seem to underly the name of the Vrkas. This name shows that the people bearing it, were of Central Asiatic affinity. In modern times the section of Jats of the Panjab, called Virks, represents the remnants of these ancient Vrkas of Central Asia. The name of the locality of Verka, which is the famous junction on the Amritsar Pathankot Railway, perhaps, bears a reminiscence of the settlement of the tribe (Prakash 1964, 102).

Good Luck,
 
Hi Raman,

Don’t know much about the Badeshas, I don’t think they are an important tribe in the district – as is general in Malwa – Sidhu/Brar, Dhaliwal, Dhillon, Chahal, Gill and Sandhus are important.

Back to Grewals, for some reason they earned the title “Sahu” or gentle, which is a term usually confined to West Panjabi Rajputs, but also a title given to the Sial Jats. This term alone can suggest that the Grewals never really tilled their land until they became marginalized. This is strengthened as many important families of Sardars sought marriages with Grewal women because they generally did not help with fieldwork.

So all in all, the Grewals may very well be “degraded Rajputs” like the Sidhu-Brars.

Best Wishes,
 
Sunny Singh :

Thanks for the info. I am looking for something more concrete. There are several places in Indian Punjab alone named "Virka'. I know of 1 in Malwa, 1 in Majha and 1 in Doaba. Who is Prakash ? Can I have some details on him and his background?


If you are the same "Ajat" from jattworld can you relay the following message of mine to them?:

----------

Jattworld has banned me. I am being banned simply because I served my country and fought terrorism. I refuse to accept a khalistani ideology. Jattworld has been hijacked by khalistanis. These people fail to realize that opposing Khalistan is not the same as opposing Sikhism. In fact I am a proud Sikh, but firstly a Jat, secondly an Indian and thirdly a Sikh. Like Dharmender and Dara Singh I do not rigidly follow Sikhism .

khalistani terrorists deserved what they got. Look at the sick things they did: www.punjabtrauma.org. I fought these people with my bare hands. I would do everything all over again to protect every inch of land from such terrorists if I had to.


Simranjit Mann, Parkash Badal (Dhillon), Amarinder (Sidhu) all opposed terrorism too. Are they criminals on that basis? Simranjit was a Police officer too. What these Sardars of Malwa have in common is they are filthy rich, amongst the most powerful, influential in all of Punjab and all are Malwai Jat. They were all proud and served their country. I have done exactly as them. No different.

Those Racist anti-Jat Ghullighars Randip/Nav/Sunny Singh banned me on their www.sikh-history.com site after my long response that exposed Ghullighars and Doabias for what they really are. Truth hurts. Presenting a Jat view alone is enough to warrant a ban? What gives? They use the Sikh religion to spread hatred against all Jats. They have in the past insulted Haryana Jats too.

I will resurface on the Ghullighar site shortly to express my views.


JohalJatt:


Thanks for banning me on jattworld too without notice. If this is a khalistani site then I want no part of it. You can find me at a real Jat site: jatland.com

Jai Hind Jat Brothers !
 
Badesha of Punjab are Jats. They are found in Malwa. A minor tribe in comparison to groups like Sidhus numberwise. Beyond that can't tell you anymore.
 
Hi HS Birk

Buddha Prakash is, I believe, a historian from the Panjabi University – Patiala. He is most noted in his belief that Chandragupta Maurya was a native of the Panjab. He is not a Jat, maybe a Khatri or Baniya.

For tips on Virks, look to the South-eastern shore of the Caspian Sea.

I will forward your messages onto Jattworld.

Regards,
 
HS Birk (Oct 08, 2004 12:18 a.m.):
Sunny Singh :

Thanks for the info. I am looking for something more concrete. There are several places in Indian Punjab alone named "Virka'. I know of 1 in Malwa, 1 in Majha and 1 in Doaba. Who is Prakash ? Can I have some details on him and his background?


If you are the same "Ajat" from jattworld can you relay the following message of mine to them?:

----------

Jattworld has banned me. I am being banned simply because I served my country and fought terrorism. I refuse to accept a khalistani ideology. Jattworld has been hijacked by khalistanis. These people fail to realize that opposing Khalistan is not the same as opposing Sikhism. In fact I am a proud Sikh, but firstly a Jat, secondly an Indian and thirdly a Sikh. Like Dharmender and Dara Singh I do not rigidly follow Sikhism .

khalistani terrorists deserved what they got. Look at the sick things they did: www.punjabtrauma.org. I fought these people with my bare hands. I would do everything all over again to protect every inch of land from such terrorists if I had to.


Simranjit Mann, Parkash Badal (Dhillon), Amarinder (Sidhu) all opposed terrorism too. Are they criminals on that basis? Simranjit was a Police officer too. What these Sardars of Malwa have in common is they are filthy rich, amongst the most powerful, influential in all of Punjab and all are Malwai Jat. They were all proud and served their country. I have done exactly as them. No different.

Those Racist anti-Jat Ghullighars Randip/Nav/Sunny Singh banned me on their www.sikh-history.com site after my long response that exposed Ghullighars and Doabias for what they really are. Truth hurts. Presenting a Jat view alone is enough to warrant a ban? What gives? They use the Sikh religion to spread hatred against all Jats. They have in the past insulted Haryana Jats too.

I will resurface on the Ghullighar site shortly to express my views.


JohalJatt:


Thanks for banning me on jattworld too without notice. If this is a khalistani site then I want no part of it. You can find me at a real Jat site: jatland.com

Jai Hind Jat Brothers !
Click to expand...


Sat Sri Akal Mr Birk.

I just had a good long look at jattworld.

Seems like a real crap site.

Wouldnt waste my breath on being banned from there.

The only 2 people that keep that Canadian-babbar khalsa fan-club website alive with any intellectual debates & comments post here as well.

This place is better - because as well as those 2, we have many intellectual elders with a good grounding of Jat history and Jat life as it is India - Dudhee Ji, the Colenel Sahibs, Dr Birbal Singh etc.

Those guys on JW have like, punjabi khatris and lubanas and sainis on it?! Not to mention punjabi hindus in disguise saying all sorts of stupid ass comments.

Rehn de veera! Ethe hi reho!

Sat Sri Akal.
 
Ramandeep

That was uncalled for

They are quite decent people.

There will be always be some who could use some more information .

Your task is to help , not create misunderstandings


Try and interact with them.

Ravi
 
Hi Ravi Bhai,

Kya bathao?

My dad was Arya Samaji Army wala Jat.
I am from Haryana. I am somewhat pro-Haryana on the water issue.

I'd be a real hit on that site!
I can see it now - "hindu this, hindu that", "bahman this, bahman that", "sell-out this", "sell-out that".
I'll just get really worked up, get hacked off and spend too much time posting messages that wont even be read or listened to!

I really really dont support the khalistan issue AT ALL. I'm probably not as far-right as Mr Birk, but can quite understand his stand point. And discussing it with babbar khalsa's canadian-based fan-club is like trying to teach an ostrich how to fly. It is a serious waste of time and energy. Half those people probably havent even been to India, and if they have it won't tally to more than twice each. Why discuss things with people who are clueless and not willing to listen??

Trust me I have been on plenty of sikh sites. It is all the same thing. Whilst I admire your attempt to unite Jat Sikhs and Hindu Jats of Haryana (which is also something I agree with and would like to see) - it is unlikely to be happening on that site. Vaha pe tho log bahuth gatiya cheeze likte hain. koi saini post karta hai ke kisi haryana affsar ne kisi singh ke mooh pe pishaab kiya ar uske baad sab canada-alo india ko arr hinduo ko gaalia dene lagte hain. chorro bhai! bina baat apne aap ko tension dilwa doge. unko apne 'flights of fantasy' mein rehne deo.

Ram Ram Ravi bhai.
 
Because some people spread garbage,

is all the more reason to partcipate and shut down these type of people,

or their version is what will prevail, and become the mainstream view

Note logic and facts will always win out in the end

Note also that as you particpate and present facts, people who would stay away earlier start to take part

Gradually sense will prevail, if sense is presented.
 
Hi Guys,

I think we can close the rift between Jat Sikh and Hindu Jats, but I don’t think we can ever have consensus on opinions. It can be advantageous to partner up against a common enemy, but in peace time – these two groups will forever be separated.

Best Wishes,
 
Ramandeep you are right JW is crap

My original purpose for posting here was to create dialogue between Jats of Haryana and Punjab.

I am a realist. I know that due to state issues like water sharing that the 2 groups will always remain separate but that should not stop us from talking.

As you can understand having fought real terrorists with my own bare hands I can never accept such people's opinions who want to split up my motherland. NOT A SINGLE INCH OF IT!

These people ignore what terrorists did. Look at www.punjabtrauma.org

How many of them lived in Punjab during the 1980's ? It was a nightmare for normal residents of Punjab to live their lives during that time. All thanks to Khalistani terrorists.

They are Jats in name only

They are not sardars. They are far from it.

They are doaba Jats who are getting dominated in doaba by Labanas, Sainis, Mahtons, Chmar. What kind of a Jat has little or no land? These doaba Jats are always flocking to leave for abroad because they have nothing in land holdings. Don't take JW to be representing real Punjabi Jats of Malwa. Malwa Jats run Punjab.

If fighting for one's country is a crime then I am guilty. So is former Police officer Simranjit Mann, former CM Badal, current CM Amarinder. All are Jat Sardars. Doaba Jats can't even compare to the lifestyles of these people's servants. That is how different and how low a standard of living Doaba Jats have in relation to us Malwa sardars.
 
Half those people probably havent even been to India, and if they have it won't tally to more than twice each. Why discuss things with people who are clueless and not willing to listen??
Click to expand...

Ramandeep:

That is why I don't care about them banning me. They don't matter. The only votes that really count at the ballot box is Malwa Jats. How many Punjab CM's from Malwa Jats v.s. Doaba Jats? As soon as I announced there that I was a former Black Cat paramilitary and former Police officier they lost mental control and couldn't handle it. That is what lead to my ban.

I am not far-right. My views are the same as anyone that has served in the Army, Police or any other national service for government.

What I say to the Jattworld crowd is if you want to fight for khalistan then rather talking this stuff on internet let's see you get on a plane and go fight India's Nuclear-armed army.
 
Mr birk

are you trying to create trouble between the jat of punjab, malwa and the Doab and elsewhere?


Are your really a Virk Jat?

Be careful with your answer, you may be asked to provide verifiable evidence

FYI

you have not been banned form Jattworld. so please stop making such a big issue of it.

So far the moderators here have been quite tolerant,

They just might ban you and that would be a pity

Ravi Chaudhary
 
Buddha Prakash is, I believe, a historian from the Panjabi University – Patiala. He is most noted in his belief that Chandragupta Maurya was a native of the Panjab. He is not a Jat, maybe a Khatri or Baniya.
Click to expand...

Sunny-Singh:

what do you say to this link?

http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/iranic_identity_of_mauryas1.php
 
Mr birk
are you trying to create trouble between the jat of punjab, malwa and the Doab and elsewhere?
Click to expand...

Ravi:

No that is not my intention. I am only stating the truth. Facts back me up. Malwa has more land and therefore bigger farms. Doaba people have in fact been leaving in droves for abroad because in India they would be killing each other off for a mere inch of land. Their areas are dominated by Kamboh,Lubana,Saini and churha chmar. Chuhra chamar make up 50% of their doaba population. Our Malwa area as well as Majha region are run by Jatts. We dominate these areas almost in its entirety and in every way possible. Is it my problem that people can't handle such painful truths?


Are your really a Virk Jat?

Be careful with your answer, you may be asked to provide verifiable evidence
Click to expand...

Yes I am who I am. What is your real gotra?


FYI

you have not been banned form Jattworld. so please stop making such a big issue of it.
Click to expand...

It is not a really big issue other than they didn't have the decency to hear both sides of the story and just banned without excuse. I am certain that I am banned. I can not even join the site.
 
Mr Birk

The moderatpr has posted publically ythat you are not banned

****************
admin Re: Message from HS Birk

Webmaster

Joined: 2003/2/16
Posts: 48
Time 18:54


From:



Reply
The mud that this HS Birk is throwing at JattWorld is absolute Rubbish.

He was Never Banned


http://www.jattworld.com/exoops/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1067&forum=1&start=10


You may be confusing this with another site sikh-history.com

*****************
Undoubtedly you are arousing strong emotions.

A little less aggressiveness may not go astray.

On Goth

we are Brebhan( Solanki),

Nana]s side - Sehrawat

Ravi
 
Ravi:

It is very easy for them to claim now that I am unbanned. They never wanted to hear my side of the story & just banned me. I will not goto that site that promotes a khalistani agenda that has ZERO support in Bharat. Simplejatt talks a good line but has he ever seen the real face of khalistani terrorists who killed, raped, maimed average folks of Punjab? The government of the time had to act and did the RIGHT THING. I stand by everything I did to fight terrorism. I have nothing to hide.

They claim to be "Jatt"world but promote only Sikhism. I am a Sikh too but if I want to talk about Sikhism I will goto a sikh site. Most real Jat Sikhs are barely observing any tenants of Sikhism. They only have a Khanda on that site. Why not other religion's symbols? Jats are found in Muslims, Hindus and Christians. Why split Jats on religious lines? That makes my blood boil to see how Khatris and Sainis are given prominance on "Jatt"world but Hindu Jats and Jats who are anti-khalistan, pro-india are not allowed.
 
Hi Birk,
“Sunny-Singh:
what do you say to this link?”

I think there is little proof behind the article by Abbas.

Regarding Doabia and Malwai, admitted the average landholding in Malwa is larger than that in Doaba, but farming yield was traditionally higher in the Doaba Area. Around a hundred years ago, Malwa was not nearly as prosperous – Bathinda would often experience dust-bowls. In those day, Doaba Men, who could not attain a suitable bride would go to Malwa to purchase one.

Nowadays, however, due to the irrigation networks and agricultural skills – the Malwa Jat is on average the richest Jat of the Panjab.

Regards,
 
Ravi bhai,

Ram Ram.

I thought you said that the purpose of going onto JW was to bridge the gap between Sikh Jats and Hindu Jats and create understanding. Ab aapko ek aisa sikh jat mil gaya who is exactly what you're looking for but you are treating him with suspicion ..... kyu???

Mr Birk,

I will re-iterate.
Jatland is infinitely better than Jattworld (From what I have seen).
Ravi Bhai and Sunny Singh Hoshiarpurwale are the only two people who keep that site alive - and fortunately for us, they post here too. In addition, we have Jats here who are from India and are keyed up. Not to mention some elders with some good experiences to share ...
for instance, around election time I was very disheartened that sonia gandhi had won India's elections (mainly cos she was not indian and a christian) but then Dr Birbal Singh (who is Rajasthani Jat, I believe) painted a picture of BJP/RSS that I had not witnessed before.

Sunny Singh,

Sat Sri Akaal veera! tusi kimme ho?
As for this Malwa v Doaba debate .... my 2 cents:
(Chandigarh aside) Jalandhar is a lot more developed than any other Malwain city. Ludhiana is very polluted and from what I have noticed has an ever decreasing Jat population in the city. Lots of hindu dalits and bhappae seem to be taking over.

As for Bhatinda - I have some distant family still there ..... other than the big electro-thermal plant and a big army community, there is absolutely nothing there whatsoever. It seems bereft of any development.

Anyways, just my views ....

Take care all.
 
Ramandeep (Oct 18, 2004 03:27 p.m.):
Ravi bhai,

Ram Ram.

I thought you said that the purpose of going onto JW was to bridge the gap between Sikh Jats and Hindu Jats and create understanding. Ab aapko ek aisa sikh jat mil gaya who is exactly what you're looking for but you are treating him with suspicion ..... kyu???
Click to expand...

Actually I mean no disrespect to Mr Birk or anyone else.


He has never been banned,by JW, as the moderator there has confirmed in the board and he can post and discuss on that board.


My suggestion is only that he could put his views forward with a little sensitivity. Some people are a little touchy.

There is also no easy way to say what he has to say, especially when some in the audience have already made up their minds

Ravi
 
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