Diselusened Military

[bls31]

Diselusened Military

Military Marching Ahead
Political apathy is breaking down the great Indian tradition of soldiering, writes Lieutenant General Vijay Oberoi.

23 September 2008: While civilian employees of the Central government would be counting their fatter pay packets by the end of the month, the Indian military would have no such luck. Their revised emoluments are still awaiting resolution. The reason is not monetary but something more dear to the defence forces: honour and izzat. What do they mean?

Essentially, the defence forces are trying to impress on the political leadership the urgent need to restore to the military its previous exalted status, failing which national security may be jeopardized. The huge shortage of officers, which continues to increase, will get progressively worse, resulting in sub-standard military leadership. And the only national instrument that has always delivered and that has the confidence of polity will gradually weaken and become ineffective.

The early military leaders of independent India like Cariappa and Thimayya, to name only two, had left behind a legacy of nationalism, personal and professional values, and an apolitical approach. "Soldiering" was their sole message. This was nurtured by subsequent military leaders and it became a way of life in the armed forces. Military veterans, too, carried this ethos to their retired lives. This is now on the verge of breaking down, unless urgent action is taken.

This "soldiering" culture was cultivated in an environment where the political leadership was highly suspicious of the military. It is regrettable that this perception has not changed even after six decades of the military always acting in national interest. This perception is in large measure exacerbated by the bureaucracy to meet its selfish ends.

The civilian bureaucracy's self-promoting activities have included framing rules of business of government in a manner that without its advice, nay consent, even elected representatives cannot pursue policies of good governance. Eventually, the political leadership joined the self-aggrandizing bureaucracy. One consequence of this was the infamous Licence-Permit-Quota Raj which institutionalized political corruption. The so-called "Hindu rate of growth" followed, till visionary leaders and economists forced the bureaucracy to open up a decade ago.

During India's economic rise, it is the Indian military that secured peace in the country. But while occasional leaders, entrepreneurs and farmers are commended for national contribution, the military has every time been studiously ignored and marginalized. Let me illustrate this with but four unrelated examples.

First, the military has been steadily downgraded both in status and in being kept out of the policy-formulating loop. Second, deliberately no CDS has been appointed for the last seven years because it would undermine the position of the defence secretary. Third, the celebration of India's biggest victory of 1971 has become a political football, depending on the regime in power. Early this year, angst in the military peaked on account of the callous treatment of the departed 1971 war hero, the formidable Sam Bahadur. Finally, an extremely high bravery award was conferred on a bureaucrat because he happened to be at the site of a bomb blast, thus belittling the award, and degrading exceptional courage.

But the military bore the many provocations, true to its ethos "that the country always came first", until recommendations of the Sixth Central Pay Commission exploded anger across the board, in all ranks and amongst both serving personnel and veterans. Military veterans have been unprecedentedly provoked to take their protests to the streets. More about it in my next piece, if there is still interest in your soldiers who continue to give their today for your tomorrow.

Lt Gen Vijay Oberoi

Posted by
Brig Lakshman Singh VSM (Retd)

 

[jitendershooda]

Thanks BLS Ji for sharing this nice article.

 

[ygulia]

Diselusened Military

Military Marching Ahead
Political apathy is breaking down the great Indian tradition of soldiering, writes Lieutenant General Vijay Oberoi.

Posted by
Brig Lakshman Singh VSM (Retd)

Sir, could you please tell us the meaning of "Diselusened "
or it is just a spelling mistake and should be "Disillusioned".
Thanks.

 

[bls31]

My mistake, Thanks BLS

 

[rinkusheoran]

Thanks BLS ji for sharing, hope max no of people read it

Govt remember army/defence personnel only when there is war or any natural calamities or any other crisis.
When there are riots these same politician ask for army deployment but when its the time to come forward and tell the govt that army deserve everything they are asking for:-ye sab chor hain, inka khudh ka to bharta nahi hai, ye defence walo ko kya denge.

 

[bls31]

Thanks I am pasting an extract from my new book to reinforce your observation:

things returning to somewhat normal state ,with my mother’s demise at the back of my mind all the time, I then requested and was granted a few days of leave.

Changing trains at Delhi Junction for Dehradun, I possibly one of the very few soldiers returning from the Eastern front was besieged by a welcoming party and escorted to a stall serving free Idli-Dosa and other South Indian delicacies.

Excitement of meeting Jeet and the children staying in separated family accommodation with many other families as neighbours was over-shadowed by once again the ‘Survival’s Feeling of Guilt’ returning from the battle front, I was dreading of any bad news fortunately, all were safe.

The short leave over once again back at the Delhi Railway station I was looking for the stall dispensing free Dosas. However, not only the welcome party was missing but the stall had also been wound-up. The fervour for the sacrifice by the Army made only a short time back was now History. Public memory is so short


This was in 1971 after the Bangladesh liberation BLS

 

[raj2rif]

This should have been done long ago

Dear Brig Sir,

It was a privilage to serve with Gen Oberoi, he had been the soldier of exceptional qualities. You would be knowing more about him than I do.

I think what the Army people doing now, should have been done when the status of the Army Chief was brought down, I think some times during Mr. Nehru's time. If that was contested well, the current situation would have never arrived. But better late than never.

Our security is indeed in great danger. We have to make service in armed forces attractive to young people both in officer's rank as well as at entry level. Service conditions have to be improved. MES has to be taken to task and all those corrupt have to be punished for severely to set examples for others. It is only then we can get the old glory back. The effort has to be both ways, clean it, polish it and make it attractive for a young graduate to aspire for it.

 

[mukeshkumar007]

Dear Brig Sir,

It was a privilage to serve with Gen Oberoi, he had been the soldier of exceptional qualities. You would be knowing more about him than I do.

I think what the Army people doing now, should have been done when the status of the Army Chief was brought down, I think some times during Mr. Nehru's time. If that was contested well, the current situation would have never arrived. But better late than never.

Our security is indeed in great danger. We have to make service in armed forces attractive to young people both in officer's rank as well as at entry level. Service conditions have to be improved. MES has to be taken to task and all those corrupt have to be punished for severely to set examples for others. It is only then we can get the old glory back. The effort has to be both ways, clean it, polish it and make it attractive for a young graduate to aspire for it.

Well Said.

 

[vijay]

Nice Article !

First, the military has been steadily downgraded both in status and in being kept out of the policy-formulating loop. Second, deliberately no CDS has been appointed for the last seven years because it would undermine the position of the defence secretary. Third, the celebration of India's biggest victory of 1971 has become a political football, depending on the regime in power. Early this year, angst in the military peaked on account of the callous treatment of the departed 1971 war hero, the formidable Sam Bahadur. Finally, an extremely high bravery award was conferred on a bureaucrat because he happened to be at the site of a bomb blast, thus belittling the award, and degrading exceptional courage.

But the military bore the many provocations, true to its ethos "that the country always came first", until recommendations of the Sixth Central Pay Commission exploded anger across the board, in all ranks and amongst both serving personnel and veterans. Military veterans have been unprecedentedly provoked to take their protests to the streets. More about it in my next piece, if there is still interest in your soldiers who continue to give their today for your tomorrow.

These are serious concerns and must be looked after with due urgency to prevent the things geting out of hands as Defence Forces is the only organization in India upon which people still have their faith.

Not only 1971 but all the jobs done by Defence forces are being manipulated by the politicians according to their respective political gains. Government seems reluctant to pay attention to their needs as they never involves themselves into any kind of Unions, Strikes, Dharnas etc but consider 'Service of the Nation' as their prime target. So, no threat for any Government practically.

Politicians and bureaucrats always enjoys their non-working culture untill they are forced to do some 'work'. I don't know whether Defence Personnels are going to adopt that way or not but if things keep going this way one day they will be forced to do so.

 

[raj2rif]

The Balance Needs to be Kept

Dear Members,

I think a balance has to be maintained among the different organizations those are vital to run the country efficiently, and that included IAS, IPS and other civil servents.

Unfortunately, the defense is an expensive business with no tangible returns. It is essential to protect the development that drives the revenue and quality of life of citizens.

With that in mind, I think the selection criteria and subsequent employment of people in each service needs some reconsiderations.

There is no doubt that selection to the IAS or IPS cadre is pretty competitive and only the people with exceptional qualities make it to that cadre. The selection to the military is not easy either. I would say we need the best among the armed forces as well as in civil administration with each of them knowing the difficulties faced by each other while executing their tasks.

I would say, on completion of the selection process, each IPS and IAS officer should be asked to serve 5-10 years in the defense services preferrably in the fighting arms, ideally in the infantry battalions.

On completion of their mendatory period in the defense services, they should be asked to opt to continue in defense services or move to civil services. While they should have the option, their performance should also be the deciding criteria. Keep the stature of the defense services officer a little higher and with little extra compensation, so that it makes it difficult to make that transition decision. Many emergency services officers on being discharged from the services did do very well in the civil administration. This will give the nation a lot of military officers, and that will also give the chance to give time to defense services officer's development.

Today, no officer gets the pre course training that is so essential for them to get before proceeding on career courses. Simply there are not enough officers. We have accepted and unless we put our food down, no one is going to help us out. I think it might just be a wise idea for defense services officers to start helping themselves and start questioning the government on various issues.

 

[ygulia]

No Comparison

Dear Members,

I think a balance has to be maintained among the different organizations those are vital to run the country efficiently, and that included IAS, IPS and other civil servents.

Unfortunately, the defense is an expensive business with no tangible returns. It is essential to protect the development that drives the revenue and quality of life of citizens.

.

You can not compare Civil Services officers with Armed Forces officers. There is too much difference in level of intelligence between these two cadres. It is another thing that defence services people have to face hardship while posted at borders or non-family stations. They should be compensated well for that hardship.

 

[raj2rif]

Myth!

You can not compare Civil Services officers with Armed Forces officers. There is too much difference in level of intelligence between these two cadres. It is another thing that defence services people have to face hardship while posted at borders or non-family stations. They should be compensated well for that hardship.

I think there is a lot of misconception and myth about it. There is not doubt the entrance examination for IPS and IAS is much tougher than the UPSC examination. But then people coming through the NDA just have a 12th grade education. It might be of interesting to note that some of the so called intellectuals do fail in the NDA entrance examination. Intellect is a developing phenomenon. The surroundings make a lot of difference in the level of intellect.

You probably have no idea about the life of an army officer in a peace station. The commitments are too much and many a times the officers feel that it might just be a good idea to be in field location. This is specially true for the officers of Infantry, or for that matter most of the fighting arms.

The idea is that let the intellectuals have first 10 years in the armed forces. This will make them physically fit and they will be much healthy in the later years of their service as diplomats and bureaucrats. On the other hand the armed forces would be greatly helped due to their advanced intellects, specially when they would be serving in ranks of junior officers e.g. Capts and Majors. Since these ranks interact maximum with the soldiers, it will immensely help the soldiers too. There suprior skills in intellects will also enhance the quality of training for the troops.

Thus my proposal would make a "WIN" "WIN" situation for both civil services as well as the armed forces.

 

[ygulia]

I think there is a lot of misconception and myth about it. There is not doubt the entrance examination for IPS and IAS is much tougher than the UPSC examination. But then people coming through the NDA just have a 12th grade education. It might be of interesting to note that some of the so called intellectuals do fail in the NDA entrance examination. Intellect is a developing phenomenon. The surroundings make a lot of difference in the level of intellect.

You probably have no idea about the life of an army officer in a peace station. The commitments are too much and many a times the officers feel that it might just be a good idea to be in field location. This is specially true for the officers of Infantry, or for that matter most of the fighting arms.

The idea is that let the intellectuals have first 10 years in the armed forces. This will make them physically fit and they will be much healthy in the later years of their service as diplomats and bureaucrats. On the other hand the armed forces would be greatly helped due to their advanced intellects, specially when they would be serving in ranks of junior officers e.g. Capts and Majors. Since these ranks interact maximum with the soldiers, it will immensely help the soldiers too. There suprior skills in intellects will also enhance the quality of training for the troops.

Thus my proposal would make a "WIN" "WIN" situation for both civil services as well as the armed forces.

I have full idea of Army Officer's life. There are lot of Army officers in my family. Me and my borther both got through selection process and later on both decided not to join the Academy. Army officer's, in general, level of intelligence is no where comparable to civil servant. This sort of experiment will create a kiosk in administration of the country and the results will be discouraging. You might be aware that ex-army officers who write the civil services tests, only write the GS and English tests. If they would have also been asked to write two optional papers then perhaps hardly any of them would have got through it. Sir, this is my personal view and you have every right to differ with it.
Thanks.

 

[raj2rif]

Missing the Point

I have full idea of Army Officer's life. There are lot of Army officers in my family. Me and my borther both got through selection process and later on both decided not to join the Academy. Army officer's, in general, level of intelligence is no where comparable to civil servant. This sort of experiment will create a kiosk in administration of the country and the results will be discouraging. You might be aware that ex-army officers who write the civil services tests, only write the GS and English tests. If they would have also been asked to write two optional papers then perhaps hardly any of them would have got through it. Sir, this is my personal view and you have every right to differ with it.
Thanks.

Dear Mr. Gulia,

You are missing my point. What I am saying is let the people selected for IAS and IPS serve in the military for 5-10 years before they take on their job in civil administration. I am not saying that you send the army officers to run the civil administration. (by the way when the civil administration fails, it is the army that is called upon)

Since these people have exceptional intellegence, it will also help the army and at the same time will develop some kind of discipline among them which might be useful to them in their future service.

They will also have the correct perspective of the defense of the nation, the man management skills those are required to motivate people to give their best is adverse situations. More importantly, it will create a much stronger bond among the army and the civil services.

Regarding understanding the army life. My brother also had his brother in the military, but let me tell you, he probably has no idea whatsover about the army life. And by the way I am not the only one in our extended family who had been in the military. When you see the things from outside you don't see the all. In any case we in the army are not suppose to discuss every thing with our relatives. Seeing the things from the fringes and doing them actually are totally different things.

 

[sidchhikara]

Army officer's, in general, level of intelligence is no where comparable to civil servant.

Why are you comparing apples to oranges? That does not say a whole lot about your analytical ability.

Maybe Civil Servants are sissies - corrupted, dowry-seeking, in the way of economic progress, criminal rent-seeking, unaccountable rattu tote - in short parasites on the society - a total wastage of taxpayer money!! a venal legacy of British Raj. Margaret Thatcher did away with her weasly bureaucRATS from her British administration. Our anpadh politicians will not do it, otherwise who will write their useless official correspondence.

An Infantry officer might kick their a$$ so hard in a hand to hand combat that they may not be able to $hit for the rest of their life. An army officer may have an IQ much higher than a civil servant, but maybe he/she was disinclined to oil their hair up with stinky grease and maro ghote about useless stuff for 16 hours a day.
Different jobs require different aptitudes, It makes no sense to compare them on just one limiting factor.

Blanket statements like the one quoted above are a sign of lazy reasoning.

 

[sunillathwal]

I think there is a lot of misconception and myth about it. There is not doubt the entrance examination for IPS and IAS is much tougher than the UPSC examination. But then people coming through the NDA just have a 12th grade education. It might be of interesting to note that some of the so called intellectuals do fail in the NDA entrance examination. Intellect is a developing phenomenon. The surroundings make a lot of difference in the level of intellect.

Sir, i agree with your views. It is true that people coming through the NDA are no less intellect than people appearing for civil services.
But one thing is there, the standard of CDS/ NDA written exam is not that much tough any 'average' student can clear the written exam (specially CDS) easily. Written exam is no match with the CS exams. But still that doesn't mean people opting for defense services are not intelligent/hard working enough to preparing civil service!! Some of my friends/juniors joined CDS after graduation and they were good in academics (above 75% marks) and few did masters and subsequently into research or preparing for civils!! and i really can't say who were more intellect.

my personal view is: its not right to compare these two profession and labeling one more intellectual than others. A person considers many factors while opting any particular career. Many bright student choose to go for SSC, CDS etc just after graduation because they have family obligations.

1. Army officer's, in general, level of intelligence is no where comparable to civil servant.....
2. This sort of experiment will create a kiosk in administration of the country and the results will be discouraging.....

3. You might be aware that ex-army officers who write the civil services tests, only write the GS and English tests. If they would have also been asked to write two optional papers then perhaps hardly any of them would have got through it. Sir, this is my personal view and you have every right to differ with it.
Thanks.

1. If we are comparing the level intelligence of an Army officer's and a civil servant after 20 yrs of service in their profession, then (may be) you are right. But at the time of joining: i don't think so!!!
As Tavathia sir, already mentioned that social environ makes a lot of difference to one's intellect.

2. That sort of experiment, i think, is a fantastic idea... (though extremely difficult to implement).
Sir, why r u saying that results will be discouraging ?? Can u please throw some light.

3. ... and if we ask a 50 yrs old IAS to run a 10 km race, probably he will die with a heart failure.. Just kidding.

Thanks,
Sunil.

 

[devdahiya]

What an absurd statement on intelligence of human beings by one of the gentlemen.We do not apply ourselves before saying things.At birth all humans except those born mentally ill or imbalanced have the average intelligence levels.It is the subsequent environment in which we dwell makes the difference to the capabilities and sharpness of mind.A beggar can have better intelligence in some aspects of life than a cabinet secretary or a General.Debate should be educated and based on certain logic and not on arrogance of a special kind.....Quote..'I and my brother did not join forces even after getting selected by SERVICES SELECTION BOARD because there is lack of intelligence there'...unquote..........I pity such people and their capabilities.it takes a lots of character to understand and learn right things in life.


Let us focus on the issue raised by BLS sir and not try hijack this thread by KHUNDDAKKI ideas.

regards

 

[ssgoyat]

[

Dear Brig Sir,

It was a privilage to serve with Gen Oberoi, he had been the soldier of exceptional qualities. You would be knowing more about him than I do.

I think what the Army people doing now, should have been done when the status of the Army Chief was brought down, I think some times during Mr. Nehru's time. If that was contested well, the current situation would have never arrived. But better late than never.

Our security is indeed in great danger. We have to make service in armed forces attractive to young people both in officer's rank as well as at entry level. Service conditions have to be improved. MES has to be taken to task and all those corrupt have to be punished for severely to set examples for others. It is only then we can get the old glory back. The effort has to be both ways, clean it, polish it and make it attractive for a young graduate to aspire for it.

Agreed to your thoughts..sir'e

Surely the need of hour is to bring the old glory back..

It's dishartening to see jobless BSc/Msc/BA graduates who go for soldier's ralley.....whereas the takers for CDS, SSC, TES, UES are few in numbers..

Also the quality students of Law, medical n engineering background refrains from even thinking of defence carrier..

And this results in the crunch of quality officers, and quality is compromised a bit..and is at stake..

The carrier in Defence forces is being considered as the last ray of hope...instead the first choice, a decades back..

Even the retired defence personnal refrain from sending their wards...

It's only considered as a sarkari Job with pension & other benifits, rather than Passion, dedication & pride... to serve the nation..

That's the reason why army is short of Quality Manpower....

Thanks to the slowdown and the recent pay hike & Kapil dev being given rank of Hony. Lt. Col in TA wing (Punjab Regiment) of Indian Army (though i wonder how this move was accpeted by defence ministry??)

But it's surely discouraging to see the govt's attitude..besides their civilian cental govt. counterparts

It's even more dishartening to see Delhi Police sepoy's to get more salary than our soldiers..

I welcome the sixth pay commission move..but the OR ranks have not been given what the % hike has been given in the JCO & Officer ranks..

The entry level has to be made attractive...like the planned growth of officer cadre, based on years of service..

I older times soldiers used to retire as Sub./Sub Majors/Hony. Capt/Lt.

But now we see more of LNK's n Hav's getting retired...the same growth plan should be implemented for Sep/Rfn as well..unlike officers, so that the entry level becomes an attractive officers..

Also since more of the Bsc/Msc/BA/BCom graduates are getting recruited as GD soldiers, there's a crying need to increase the seats for ACC commissions.The army needs to tap their potentials in their Organisation itself, rather than dependin upon the outside youths..

Even in IAF, nobody seems to be intrested beyond CPL & SGT. Since unlike their Army counterparts, they have more possibilities for higher studies through distance & online education programmes.

and the Army's Sep/Nk/LNK/Hav's serves in the far flunged insurgency area's...they are deprived of these benifits..

And that's the main reason for the lower ranks Attiration rate in IAF than Army.

the Army needs to tackle such issue's, so that their soldiers too can also be groomed up for a second carrier, after serving army for so long...rather now they end up only as acting security guards at ATM's/Banks/private establishments.

Also, the infantry battalian solders should be given more options & better salary structure, unlike their ASC,SIGNAL,EME,OD,AEC,MES, AMC etc. counterparts, since they are a bit less prone to insurgency area's and have a better chances for further studies...

Like even in private companies, those who are in sales, research & developments are paid more than those working in Maintenace, QC, production, testing deptt..

The Field Area allowance should be increased for the soldiers who are working in the tough zones of Leh n Laddakh region (where the temp. is below 30-degree to 36-degree east latitude and 76-degree to 79-degree north longitude...

I would like to hear more from Brig. LS & Col. Tevathia

 

[ssgoyat]

You can not compare Civil Services officers with Armed Forces officers. There is too much difference in level of intelligence between these two cadres. It is another thing that defence services people have to face hardship while posted at borders or non-family stations. They should be compensated well for that hardship.

Fully agreed to your thoughts...

It's funnier to see comparing civil services officers being compared with Armed forces officers..

The skillset requirements are totally different..

The comptetion for civil services is cut throat, the highest order selection exam for govt. services..whereas in Army (NDA, CDS, TES, UES) any average student (mostly selected ppls have 60-65 % in their academics), who can be groomed n polised with the physical n mental balancing requirements
...who are supposed to follow the orders from superiors at any cost...No IF's n BUT's...

It requires years of die hard preparation to be selcted for civil services,The whole process of selection itself, in the civil services takes a full year and when the application process is included it sums up to 18 months in all..

the prelim stage, main stage...interview...

whereas 3-4 months of coaching is more than sufficient to clear the NDA/CDS Exams.

Also there are written exams only for NDA & CDS only...and lot's of other entries TES, UES, Armed Medical corps etc) are Direct Interview based.

As above quoted: How one can expect such tough written test skill requirements from a 12th pass guy....

This is just for the NDA Entry Only....

and rest entries are for enginners, lawyers, post graduates, medical graduates..etc.

The defence officers have glamorous life...prefix of Col's/Brig's/Lt. Gen/Maj. Gen/Gen....lot's of medals...that describes of their level of command , years of service and hardhips.....makes a different identification..

whereas a civil service officer isn't expected to walk in jungles, climb hills, firing bullets, or any such physical activities

His job requirements are totally different ( civic administration, knowledge, intelligence, The Board of interviewers look for a well-adjusted personality with the social traits,tact and diplomacy,good intellect integrity,general awareness as in current affairs, social issues and qualities of leadership).

the I.A.S.occupies the highest order of importance

So, it's been truely said:
You can not compare Civil Services officers with Armed Forces officers. There is too much difference in level of intelligence between these two cadres.

It is another thing that defence services people have to face hardship while posted at borders or non-family stations. They should be compensated well for that hardship.

 

[ssgoyat]

Disclamier:

The above post is only to describe about the slection procedure n skill set requirement difference only, n a bit of comparison part...to the general public.

Please no misinterpretions n manipulations...